http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm

I thought this was interesting. Am I right to expect that on this forum such initiatives will generally not be met with approval? As an outsider I sometimes have the feeling that in Islam at it is currently practiced by some is excessively focused on rules (look at the 'alcohol in crisps' thread as an example) in such a way that it sometimes clouds the principles that underlie the religion.

So what do you think? A good initiative? Or a dangerous attempt by secular forces to undermine Islam?

Very surprised none of the muslim members have responded to this yet.. I would have thought this would be a very hot topic! I'm very curious to see what you all think.

This sounds shifty.

Muslim scholars have been criticizing and scrutinising hadiths for thousands of years - this article makes it sound like it all hadith have been accepted by Muslims, as if we haven't already been grading hadith for about 1,400 years as authentic, good, weak or fabricated.

If you read between the lines and over look the claims of reformation, what they are doing seems okay... and past the exaggerated things like being able to justify female genital mutilation and honour killings, this had nothing to do with hadith and everything to do with peoples amazing ability to twist things until they suit their fancy...

So, it might be just that the author has sensationalised something innocent, or these guys really are trying to change the religion/doing something new (which, needless to say, is wrong).

I just hope the people working on this projects are actually scholars of hadith and know what they are doing.

But I got to say, this part doesn't sound too good:

Not necessarily... many and much of those "Western critical techniques and philosophy" originated in Islamic cultures anyway.

But what's wrong with the way the greatest Islamic scholars have been doing it for centuries?

It seems fitting this would come out of Turkey. I've always thought Islam was in dire need of reform. Not because what is contained within the Qu'ran is the problem, no more than the Protestant Reformation was about a problem in the Bible. It is simply a matter of perspective, priorities, and sort of a purification back to what should be important, which is faith in God. Of course no change in fundamental doctrine should be applied, but sometimes a religious institution can become so caught up in ritual and rules that worship of God almost becomes a secondary issue.

You thought wrong.

That would be a reform of the current Muslim condition, not Islam.

Anyway, there is plenty of focus on the faith side of things - just because we focus on the legalities and all that too, doesn't mean we are neglecting the faith/spiritual parts.

That is what I meant by there not being a problem with the Qu'ran itself. No more than there was with the Bible during the Protestant Reformation. When I think of reforms I'm referring to more practical problems, in the case of Islam. I had a Muslim friend in college and he would talk about how impossible it sometimes was to follow all the legalities while living in the West. It made him feel as if he were a bad Muslim, because he couldn't take off work when it was religiously necessary(as an example.) Of course its different in a Muslim country where taking off work for religious obligations is expected and supported. That is just one of the issues I think should be addressed.

It's pretty likely that those issues have been addressed, but people just haven't gone out looking for them, or if they have, they haven't found them.

Erm... this process of sorting the authentic from the inauthentic hadiths has actually been going on since Islam's origin. The only thing that looks genuinely 'new' to me is the re-interptretation of certain authentic hadiths.

The stuff about excessive focus on rules is indeed a problem with much Islamic teaching. That's hardly due to the religion itself, which also emphasises, for lack of a better term, 'common sense'*. It is a teaching problem which needs to, and is, being addressed.

Oh well, Turkey. Thanks for lifting the headscarf ban, I guess.

*this does not mean taking a pick-and-choose attitude to Islam, because that obviously leads to people going off the rails. It simply means not acting like a hedonistic/intolerant/violent idiot and using Islam to justify it.

I think this shows 'some' good initiatve; as long as they're not trying to change the beliefs to fit their own lifestyles kinda thing...

But, I think especially in the Middle East and also Asia, its more of a problem of those preaching/teaching the religion... I remember a few years ago when I was in College, there was Muslim guy in my World Issues Class... we watched a video on the situation in the Middle East and after he commented about it... He was a little upset at the situation and he was like, the problem is not the Faith (Islam) itself... its the people who are 'preaching/teaching' it... he's like, they get these radical Imams (i'm not sure if thats the correct term, please correct me if i'm wrong) from different places, and they send them to go and 'preach' Islam to the masses... the masses are mostly uneducated and illiterate, so they can't read the Qura'an... these "Imams" preach 'their' interpretation of the Faith, which are mostly radical and anti anything Muslim.. this is why you have kids who want to become suicide bombers and people showing so much hate to the outside world..

He was really passionate when he spoke, and he looked like he was really Hurt of what had become of Muslims and how his Faith was being preached/teached and also how it was being viewed as by the rest of the world...

I think he has a point..

27 February 2008

Mehmet Gormez, a hadith scholar at Turkey's Department of Religious Affairs, is supervising a government-sponsored project to make a comprehensive review of the hadith literature. He is heading a team of 80 specialists in Islamic studies at Ankara University.

The project is being conducted by the team for three-years and is expected to be completed this year.

Professor Gormez said the hadith project now under way is the second to have been carried out by Turkey. The new republic's first parliament commissioned an earlier review of the hadith after the country was founded in 1923.

The international media is describing the project as one whose "aim is to edit out those hadiths that are used as justification, among other things, for the oppression of women in Sharia law."

Professor Gormez says the exercise is "purely academic", and he refutes the idea that the project has such a narrow or revisionist focus, saying: "Violence and women's rights, the two themes that excite western public opinion the most, are not what's driving this process."

Yet he acknowledged that showing the falsehood of some of the texts that "present women as inferior beings," is part of the work that is being carried out by 80 Islamic scholars, all of them Turks.

Some of the false statements being identified by the study are as follows:

"If a woman doesn't satisfy her husband's desires, she should choose herself a place in hell."

"If a husband's body is covered with pus and his wife licks it clean, she still wouldn't have paid her dues."

Though hadith scholars agree that these statements are falsely attributed to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), the international news media is representing the Turkish project as being "revolutionary" - and in doing so, the media gives the non-Muslim public the impression that Muslims around the world believe in and endorse those false teachings.

In other cases, the project is surveying, reviewing, and clarifying the legal interpretations of authentic hadith. For instance, Professor Mehmet Gormez said: "There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband's permission, and they are genuine.

"But this isn't a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet's time it simply wasn't safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons."

Professor Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said "he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone".

This opinion is far from revolutionary to people familiar with Islamic Law. It reflects the view of many traditional scholars.

Sheikh Sami al-Majid, professor al-Imam Islamic University in Riyadh, explains in an article on the IslamToday website: "We can appreciate the reason for the prohibition. When we understand that the reason for this prohibition is the fear for her sanctity and honor and the fear that she might be taken advantage of or raped, then we know that the issue is one that needs to be weighed in light of the benefits and harm present in a given situation. Therefore, we have the opinion in Islamic Law that it is permissible for a woman to travel without a mahram when she is reasonably assured of her safety or when traveling poses no more danger for her than staying at home."

Unfortunately, most of the people who read the news are not familiar with Islamic teachings, and their preconceived notions about Islam are only enforced by the exaggerated claims the media is making about the Turkish hadith project.

The project is not endearing itself the interests of Turkey's nationalist right. For instance, one issue that that the project clearly supports is the need for Muslim women to cover their heads. However, this issue is a deeply divisive one in Turkey, and the nationalist elite, with its strict interpretation of secularism, is firmly opposed to Turkish women wearing the headscarf in schools and government offices.

Sources:

Amberin Zaman, "Turkey in radical revision of Islamist texts" The Daily Telegraph February 27, 2008

"Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts" BBC News February 27, 2008

Vincent Boland, "Turkey's fresh look at Prophet nears end" Financial Times February 27, 2008

Joanna Sugden, "Q&A: Hadith" The Times UK February 27, 2008

Sami al-Majid "A Woman Traveling without a Chaperone" IslamToday

http://islamtoday.com/showmenews.cfm...ub_cat_id=1790

I am backing Turkey on this one. Good job mates.

They have to be very careful in doing so. For instance, certain hadith (and Sunnah for that matter) relate to certain situations - to then nullify that hadith (by regarding it as not part of Islam) would be in direct conflict with Islam. Though, I do agree that not all of what is written about Islam in regards to the hadith is the actual message - so having these ones be globally eliminated from the Islamic theology would be a good idea.

As I said though, Turkey needs to be very careful in what they consider a radical hadith. Though to reiterrate what muezzin already said, this procedure of elim