Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - Page 2

Amat Allah · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-06-2008

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We just tend to remember the cases that match our preconceptions and forget the ones that don't.

you are right my dear brother...

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You may find some of her views critical of Islam, but are there others you might agree with?

yes there are some of her views I agree with...

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Or does the fact that she makes some critical statements of Islam make all her views false?

No absolutely not...

look my dear sister glo noone is perfect .we are human beings and we are not impeccable ...noone is perfectly right and noone is perfectly wrong. we are all have our ups and downs..

we can`t judge people because of one statement or their thoughts ,all we have to do is to give advices to them and open their eyes on the truth...

we have to talk to the others with wiseness , wisdom and moralism...
we have to treat the others just like the way we want the others to treat us in this is how our prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)did teach us...

beautiful thread my dear ...

may Allah guide us all and reward us with the paradise...

Ameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

kirk · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-07-2008

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Originally Posted by glo

why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped?

Recent press releases by Muslims:

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Originally Posted by

Man kills 17year old daughter.

Not much can be done when we have an "honour killing" case. You are in a Muslim society and women should live under religious laws.

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Originally Posted by

At a major arts conference, organisers refused to invite a devout Muslim artist because she paints faces and to Muslims is a heretic

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Originally Posted by

Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our prophet Muhammad,"

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Originally Posted by

………and has planted the brothers of apes and pigs in Palestine in order to prevent the reawakening of Islam.

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Originally Posted by

Al-Astal last June preached how it was the duty of Palestinian women to martyr themselves by becoming homicide bombers.

Idris · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-07-2008

So this makes it ok to stereotyped all muslims?
Anyone can quote.

YusufNoor · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-08-2008

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Originally Posted by kirk

Recent press releases by Muslims:

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

counterpoint:

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VIENNA, Austria — The man accused of imprisoning his daughter in a dungeon for 24 years and fathering seven children with her met for the first time with a prosecutor Wednesday and agreed to further questioning, an official said.

Fritzl's lawyer, Rudolf Mayer, said his client had access to a television in jail and was closely watching coverage of his case, which has garnered worldwide attention.

Mayer made his comments when asked to confirm a report Wednesday by the newspaper Oesterreich that quoted Fritzl as saying he was not a monster and that without him, the 19-year-old would no longer be alive.

Fritzl was bothered by the fact that he was being made out to be a monster. He said Fritzl told him: "I'm only being portrayed as a monster and not as someone who committed monstrous acts... I could have killed all of them — then nothing would have happened. No one would have ever known about it."

Meanwhile, Austria's justice minister acknowledged that authorities may have been gullible in their handling of Josef Fritzl when he reported his daughter missing nearly a quarter of a century ago.

Fritzl and prosecutor Christiane Burkheiser talked for about two hours Wednesday but did not discuss the allegations against him — that he raped his daughter for years, imprisoned her in his cellar, and fathered her seven children, St. Poelten prosecution spokesman Gerhard Sedlacek said.

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NEW ORLEANS — Ten Tulane University fraternity members faced felony charges Wednesday and the school suspended Pi Kappa Alpha following accusations that the group burned pledges with hot water and pepper spray during a "hell night" initiation.

The fraternity members face felony battery charges — punishable by up to 15 years in prison — in an alleged hazing incident in which two pledges received second- and third-degree burns from boiling water and crab boil being poured on their bodies.

"The two students were treated at a local hospital for severe burns that occurred during the hazing," Officer Gary Flot, a New Orleans police spokesman, said in a news release.

A Tulane spokesman refused to comment on the allegations or the status of the students on Wednesday, but the school issued a news release saying it had suspended its chapter of Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity and would investigate.

"This fraternity is no longer a recognized fraternity at Tulane," the school's news release said. "The university has zero tolerance for any type of hazing or other incident which can potentially endanger the well being of any student."

Eight of the fraternity members had turned themselves in to New Orleans police by Wednesday. They were booked with aggravated second-degree battery.

Two others were still being sought.

The pledges were scalded with hot crab boil and pepper spray late April 26 or early April 26 to see who could stand the most pain, Frank D'Amico Jr., an attorney for one of the victims, told WWL-TV.

D'Amico did not return calls from The Associated Press.

Two of the victims had second- and third-degree burns to various parts of the body and were treated at Touro Hospital. A Pi Kappa Alpha national spokesman said Wednesday the fraternity would have a statement later.

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ST. ANTHONY, Idaho — A suspected illegal immigrant has been charged with raping a 10-year-old girl who later gave birth in eastern Idaho.

The girl gave birth less than two weeks ago by caesarian section at Madison Memorial Hospital in Rexburg, Fremont County Sheriff Ralph C. Davis and other authorities said. Officials would not disclose the gender, date of birth or paternity of the baby.

"I wouldn't have believed a 10-year-old could conceive in the first place," Davis said.

A hospital spokeswoman would not discuss the condition of the girl or the baby and would not say whether either was still in the hospital Wednesday.

The story was first reported by KIDK Television in Idaho Falls.

St. Anthony police began investigating on April 28 after medical officials reported a pregnant child, and Guadalupe Gutierrez-Juarez, 37, of St. Anthony, was arrested the same day, Police Chief James Smith said.

"We had good information from witnesses," Smith said.

In documents that were filed April 29 in 7th District Court and obtained by The Associated Press, Gutierrez-Juarez is charged with one count of rape. He remained in jail with bail set at $250,000 pending a preliminary hearing May 13.

Authorities said Gutierrez-Juarez did not have legal documentation to live in the United States. His home town and nationality were not immediately clear, but police said they had received no complaints about him before investigating the pregnancy.

The investigation was continuing. Smith would not give details on the condition of the girl but said additional counts of rape could be filed.

"The prosecutor is still considering doing that," he said.

Prosecutor Karl H. Lewies did not return telephone calls Wednesday from The AP.

Child protection laws prohibit the Idaho Department of Health and Welfare from confirming whether the agency was contacted about the case, spokesman Tom Shanahan said.

"In a situation like that, we probably would be contacted by the hospital," Shanahan said. "If there was a crime committed we would be working with local law enforcement."

If the girl's home is found to be unsafe, a custody hearing would be held immediately and the courts would decide where to place her, Shanahan said.

"If they decide the child needs foster care, we would do that immediately," he said.

While a 10-year-old giving birth is highly unusual, it is not impossible, said Laurie Krieger, a medical anthropologist in Washington D.C.

"We do know that girls in the U.S. are menstruating sooner," a development which can speed up the production of sex hormones and make pregnancy possible earlier than might have been thought likely, Kreiger said.

Nutrition, body mass and other factors, including the fact that children in the United States weigh more than in past generations, contribute to early menstruation, she added.

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SAN DIEGO — San Diego State University has suspended six fraternities after a sweeping drug investigation that landed members of three fraternities in jail on suspicion of openly dealing drugs on campus.

The probe, prompted by the death a year ago of a freshman sorority member from a cocaine overdose, led to the arrests of 96 people, 75 of them San Diego State students. A second drug death occurred while the investigation went on.

Twenty-nine people were arrested early Tuesday in raids at nine locations including the Theta Chi fraternity, where agents found cocaine, Ecstasy and three guns. Eighteen of them were wanted on warrants for selling to undercover agents.

Theta Chi and five other fraternities have been suspended pending a hearing on evidence gathered during the investigation.

Authorities found that some fraternity members openly dealt drugs including one who sent out a mass text message advertising special prices on cocaine. Two kilograms of cocaine were seized, along with 350 Ecstasy pills, marijuana, psychedelic mushrooms, hash oil, methamphetamine, illicit prescription drugs, several guns and at least $60,000 in cash.
Related

Profits may have been used to finance fraternity operations, according to an affidavit filed in the case.

One Theta Chi member allegedly sent text messages to regular customers offering reduced prices on bulk quantities of cocaine before heading to Las Vegas for a fraternity formal.

"Attn faithful customers both myself and my associates will be in Vegas this coming weekend," the 19-year-old student wrote in the text message. "So stock up, we will be back Sunday night."

Those arrested included a student who was about to receive a criminal justice degree and another who was to receive a master's degree in homeland security.

The Greek system at San Diego State has about 3,000 students, but Fraternity Row plays an outsized role in campus life. It sits a block from Cox Arena, home to many college sporting events.

Dale Taylor, national executive director of Theta Chi, said he was "obviously shocked and saddened" by the allegations. Theta Chi prohibited the San Diego chapter from group activities like parties or sports activities and will investigate additional disciplinary measures, up to expulsion of members or the entire chapter.

The San Diego chapter, founded 61 years ago, was the first national fraternity on campus and has 65 members.

Theta Chi's San Diego chapter declined to comment. The chapter occupies two low-slung homes a block off Fraternity Row, with large red-and-white Greek symbols propped on the roof.

Theta Chi has 131 chapters in the U.S. and Canada and more than 161,000 initiates. It was founded in 1856.

University police launched their investigation into drug sales on campus after Shirley Poliakoff, 19, died from a cocaine overdose in May 2007. Investigators discovered many students in fraternities were aware of organized drug dealing within their houses.

As the investigation continued, another student, from Mesa College, died of a cocaine overdose at an SDSU fraternity house on Feb. 26, the DEA said.

Some drugs bought and sold by students were traced to gangs linked to Mexican cartels, according to the DEA. Agents collected about $100,000 worth of drugs, including cocaine, ecstasy pills, hallucinogenic mushrooms and high-grade marijuana that were being advertised in "resale quantities" between members of the fraternity and other students.

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ADELANTO, Calif. — A top animal control officer outside of Los Angeles has resigned as he faces charges in the drowning of nearly 50 kittens.

Kevin Murphy, a head of animal control in Adelanto, Calif., was placed on paid leave in March after prosecutors accused the 36-year-old of drowning the kittens over a four-month period. He faces six counts of animal cruelty.

Kathy Williamson of the Victor Valley Animal Protective League said she took in animals that Adelanto Animal Control workers brought her. She said the city paid her $23 to take in a live cat for up to 10 days; $10 to take a dead one.

City Manager Jim Hart on Tuesday said Murphy's resignation was effective May 1. Murphy couldn't be reached for comment.

Adelanto is about 70 miles northeast of Los Angeles.

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PARIS — A 36-year-old woman was taken into police custody in the French Alps after police discovered the bodies of three of her newborn babies hidden at her home, police said Thursday.

Police said they were tipped off by the woman's former romantic partner, who said he discovered the bodies hidden in boxes at the house. In a search Wednesday, officers found the bodies of three newborns, born between 2001 and 2006, and the woman acknowledged that she had given birth to them, police said.

French media reports said officials were trying to determine how the babies died. The woman, whose identity was not immediately released, was in police custody in Albertville.

The woman apparently gained so little weight during her pregnancies that nobody realized she was expecting, the reports said.

A neighbor of the couple, Eraldo Anselmo, said he was present when the woman's former partner discovered them. They called police.

"I never saw her pregnant," the neighbor told France Bleu radio.

Eric Segura, a local representative for the SNOP police union, said officials planned to carry out a DNA test on the bodies to check who the parents were.

"For the moment, the reasons are not explained," he told France-3 radio. "She said she could not face up to being a mother ... to her children."

The announcement had echoes of another case that shocked France. Last year, two of Frenchwoman Veronique Courjault's newborns were found dead in a freezer at the family residence in Seoul, South Korea, where she and her husband had been living since 2002.

Police said Courjault also told investigators that she killed another child she bore in 1999 in France and burned the body in the fireplace of the home.

do we now know EVERYTHING we need to know about non-Muslims?

KAding · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-08-2008

I like stereotypes. It allows me to pigeonhole people.

glo · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-08-2008

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Originally Posted by KAding

I like stereotypes. It allows me to pigeonhole people.

Typical thing to say for a male Dutch atheist!!

anatolian · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-09-2008

I really don't know so much thing about the stiuation of muslims in Britain or anything about that person but religious muslims who live in the western societies get stereotyped very easily in the way of keeping the islamic awards, this is a general problem of them I think...wrong?

kirk · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

Steryotype Muslims???

http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1761.htm

Another Muslim cleric makes the same claim as the first

Former Jordanian Minister Ali Al-Faqir Vows to Conquer Spain and Rome and Declares: America and the EU Will Soon Come to an End

Following are excerpts from an interview with Sheik Ali Al-Faqir, former Jordanian minister of religious endowment, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on May 2, 2008.

Sheik Ali Al-Faqir: We must declare that Palestine, from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, is an Islamic land, and that Spain – Andalusia – is also the land of Islam. Islamic lands that were occupied by the enemies will once again become Islamic. Furthermore, we will reach beyond these countries, which are lost at one point. We proclaim that we will conquer Rome, like Constantinople was conquered once, and as it will be conquered again.

k

**Muezzin** · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

Kirk, feel free to stereotpye Muslims, but at least use a decent one with a subwoofer and stuff.

KAding · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

Well, there is "only one Islam". Can we use that Islam to stereotype Muslims? Or do we have to assume that (to paraphrase) "interpretations of Islam are like navels, everybody has one"?

I would lean towards the latter, which means you can't really have any prejudices against Muslims. Heck, I don't think you can even assume every Muslims believes that "there is no God except Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah", since there are so many "secular Muslims" where I live. So whenever I disagree with certain interpretations of Islam I try to limit my criticism to Islam as a doctrine, rather than Muslims (as in the people). So I might well be an Islamophobe, but I would be severely insulted if someone called me a Muslimophobe

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**Muezzin** · 02:06 PM

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Originally Posted by KAding

Well, there is "only one Islam". Can we use that Islam to stereotype Muslims? Or do we have to assume that (to paraphrase) "interpretations of Islam are like navels, everybody has one"?

I would lean towards the latter, which means you can't really have any prejudices against Muslims. Heck, I don't think you can even assume every Muslims believes that "there is no God except Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah", since there are so many "secular Muslims" where I live.

Eh? 'Secular Muslims' still believe that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the messenger of Allah, otherwise they wouldn't be Muslim.

Secularism is the separation of religion and state, not the elimination of it, my dear Flying Dutchman.

anatolian · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

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Originally Posted by Muezzin

Eh? 'Secular Muslims' still believe that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the messenger of Allah, otherwise they wouldn't be Muslim.

Secularism is the separation of religion and state, not the elimination of it, my dear Flying Dutchman.

They must be ultra-secular muslims!

KAding · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

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Originally Posted by Muezzin

Eh? 'Secular Muslims' still believe that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) is the messenger of Allah, otherwise they wouldn't be Muslim.

Secularism is the separation of religion and state, not the elimination of it, my dear Flying Dutchman.

Yeah, sure. Thats all nice in theory. But in practice there are plenty of Muslims who don't bother with religion or even believing, but who nevertheless identify themselves as Muslims. Simply because they have a Muslim background and, I assume, because of the gigantic taboo on apostasy.

**Muezzin** · 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by KAding

Yeah, sure.

My, my. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed? Unless my Flying Dutchman remark rubbed you the wrong way, in which case I apologise. I had a lot of sugar today.

Although, you're wrong. Simply identifying yourself as Muslim does not make you one unless you believe and act accordingly. If a goat calls itself a duck, it doesn't make it one.

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Thats all nice in theory. But in practice there are plenty of Muslims who don't bother with religion or even believing, but who nevertheless identify themselves as Muslims. Simply because they have a Muslim background and, I assume, because of the gigantic taboo on apostasy.

You can't claim to know what they believe. Neither can I. Only they and God know that. But if they don't have that fundamental belief, they are not Muslim, regardless of what they call themselves.

That's all off-topic. I thought I'd just get the last word before I start deleting off-topic posts

To everyone thinking any stereotypes are ever justified... how very modern and edgy and controversial hip and non-conformist of you. Even though you're just conforming with the rest of the people who claim to be non-conformist and modern and edgy and controversial and hip. Bubbles are fun places to live.

KAding · **Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? -** 05-12-2008

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Originally Posted by Muezzin

My, my. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed? Unless my Flying Dutchman remark rubbed you the wrong way, in which case I apologise. I had a lot of sugar today.

I think you misinterpreted my "yeah sure". I meant it as an "yes, of course you are right, but" and not "you are an idiot" kind of "yeah sure". Sorry for that, I'll be clearer next time

.

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Although, you're wrong. Simply identifying yourself as Muslim does not make you one unless you believe and act accordingly. If a goat calls itself a duck, it doesn't make it one.

You can't claim to know what they believe. Neither can I. Only they and God know that. But if they don't have that fundamental belief, they are not Muslim, regardless of what they call themselves.

That's all off-topic. I thought I'd just get the last word before I start deleting off-topic posts

To everyone thinking any stereotypes are ever justified... how very modern and edgy and controversial hip and non-conformist of you. Even though you're just conforming with the rest of the people who claim to be non-conformist and modern and edgy and controversial and hip. Bubbles are fun places to live.

All I am saying is that I can't judge one pers

	(#18 (permalink))
Idris Count you blessings Status: Offline Posts: 306 Reputation: 392 Rep Power: 17 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-07-2008 So this makes it ok to stereotyped all muslims? Anyone can quote. __________________

	(#20 (permalink))
KAding LI Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 1,138 Reputation: 1672 Rep Power: 17 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Way of Life: Atheist	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-08-2008 I like stereotypes. It allows me to pigeonhole people.

	(#22 (permalink))
anatolian Member Status: Offline Posts: 70 Reputation: 7 Rep Power: 4 Join Date: Jan 2008 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-09-2008 I really don't know so much thing about the stiuation of muslims in Britain or anything about that person but religious muslims who live in the western societies get stereotyped very easily in the way of keeping the islamic awards, this is a general problem of them I think...wrong?

	(#23 (permalink))
kirk Account Disabled Status: Offline Posts: 84 Reputation: 93 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Apr 2008 Gender: Way of Life: Atheist	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-12-2008 Steryotype Muslims??? http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1761.htm Another Muslim cleric makes the same claim as the first Former Jordanian Minister Ali Al-Faqir Vows to Conquer Spain and Rome and Declares: America and the EU Will Soon Come to an End Following are excerpts from an interview with Sheik Ali Al-Faqir, former Jordanian minister of religious endowment, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on May 2, 2008. Sheik Ali Al-Faqir: We must declare that Palestine, from the [Jordan] River to the [Mediterranean] Sea, is an Islamic land, and that Spain – Andalusia – is also the land of Islam. Islamic lands that were occupied by the enemies will once again become Islamic. Furthermore, we will reach beyond these countries, which are lost at one point. We proclaim that we will conquer Rome, like Constantinople was conquered once, and as it will be conquered again. k

	(#24 (permalink))
Muezzin Why so serious? Status: Offline Posts: 8,772 Reputation: 22989 Rep Power: 55 Join Date: Jun 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-12-2008 Kirk, feel free to stereotpye Muslims, but at least use a decent one with a subwoofer and stuff. __________________ Pay a visit to the masters of might, magic and Monday mornings Fedora-sporting userpage

	(#25 (permalink))
KAding LI Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 1,138 Reputation: 1672 Rep Power: 17 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Way of Life: Atheist	Re: Why should Muslims put up with being stereotyped? - 05-12-2008 Well, there is "only one Islam". Can we use that Islam to stereotype Muslims? Or do we have to assume that (to paraphrase) "interpretations of Islam are like navels, everybody has one"? I would lean towards the latter, which means you can't really have any prejudices against Muslims. Heck, I don't think you can even assume every Muslims believes that "there is no God except Allah and Muhammed is the messenger of Allah", since there are so many "secular Muslims" where I live. So whenever I disagree with certain interpretations of Islam I try to limit my criticism to Islam as a doctrine, rather than Muslims (as in the people). So I might well be an Islamophobe, but I would be severely insulted if someone called me a Muslimophobe .