Muslims 'under siege like Jews'

**Uthmān** · **Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

A government minister has warned that many British Muslims "feel like the Jews of Europe".

Dewsbury MP Shahid Malik, who is a minister for international development, stressed that he was not equating the Muslims' situation with the Holocaust.

But, in an interview to mark the 7 July bombings anniversary, he suggested that many Muslims felt "under siege".

This had the effect of segregating society and undermining efforts to deal with extremism and terrorism, he said.

Mr Malik, who revealed he had been the victim of religious hatred himself, made the comments in an interview for a Channel 4 Dispatches programme.

He said: "I think most people would agree that if you ask Muslims today what do they feel like, they feel like the Jews of Europe.

It is critical we ensure that Britain's near two million Muslims have a sense of belonging... because it is vital in the fight against violent extremism in the name of Islam

Shahid Malik, MP for Dewsbury

"I don't mean to equate that with the Holocaust but in the way that it was legitimate almost - and still is in some parts - to target Jews, many Muslims would say that we feel the exact same way.

"Somehow there's a message out there that it's OK to target people as long as it's Muslims.

"And you don't have to worry about the facts, and people will turn a blind eye."

David Brown, from the Jewish Life Education Centre, said he did see some parallels between the persecution of Jews in the 20th Century and the contemporary treatment of Muslims.

"If you think about the earlier stages of what was going on in Europe in the later (19)20s and early (19)30s and the way that Jews were scapegoated and stereotyped, I can certainly understand a sentiment of that is going on for the Muslim community," he said.

The documentary - which investigates whether the fear of terrorism has fuelled a rise of violence, intolerance and hatred against British Muslims - will be broadcast on Monday to coincide with the third anniversary of the 7 July London bombings.

British society is in danger of becoming segregated, Mr Malik said

Mr Malik's constituency in West Yorkshire was home to 7 July suicide bomber Mohammad Siddique Khan.

The MP, who told how his car was firebombed, a car drove at him in a petrol station and said he receives regular hate mail, called for action to be taken to help Muslims feel accepted in society.

"It is critical we ensure that Britain's near two million Muslims have a sense of belonging and feel accepted, first and foremost because it is their right as British citizens, but secondly because it is vital in the fight against violent extremism in the name of Islam," he said.

"With some 2,000 people under surveillance because of the possibility that they might engage in terrorism the threat of an attack is a very real one and Muslims in communities up and down the country become indispensable in the fight against terrorism.

"Yet there is no doubt that many Muslims feel under siege in the media and in society and this siege mentality feeds into a wider victim narrative."

Mr Malik said the apparent persecution made it more difficult for people in positions of responsibility to persuade people to challenge the "small minority of extremists who call themselves Muslims".

Source

Eric H · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Greetings and peace be with you Osman my friend,

Do you feel under siege in the UK. Does anyone else feel under siege?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

**Uthmān** · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you Osman my friend

And you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric H

Do you feel under siege in the UK. Does anyone else feel under siege?

Good question. I am fortunate enough to live in a tolerant area where people don't seem to be prejudiced against Muslims. As such, I don't feel 'under siege' in my local area. However, I often read on the news about people being attacked and singled out in other areas for no other reason than being a Muslim.

Furthermore, the internet is a big place and it is here that I feel the impact most. I need only visit a few popular websites and forums to see many people's attitudes and misunderstandings towards not only Muslims, but Islam as well. At times, it makes me feel helpless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric H

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Likewise.

------ · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Quote:

this siege mentality feeds into a wider victim narrative."

Yeh...Like calling us terrorists in the newspaper and in the media. This does not help promote peace in between races and religions.

May Allaah Guide us all, Ameen.

Whatsthepoint · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

What muslims face today is xenophobia, some discrimation and occasional violence, muslims aren't the only ones to feel that way. What Jews and other peoples felt during the nazi regime was institutionalized xenophobia and severe government-funded persecution. Big difference.

Besides, anti-semitism in nazi-Germany was heavely encouraged by the authorities, today nobody encourages xeno-and-islamophobia. Why does it exist anyway? Well, imho there are many reasons and the native popualtion is not the only one to blame.

Fishman · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

What muslims face today is xenophobia, some discrimation and occasional violence, muslims aren't the only ones to feel that way. What Jews and other peoples felt during the nazi regime was institutionalized xenophobia and severe government-funded persecution. Big difference.

Besides, anti-semitism in nazi-Germany was heavely encouraged by the authorities, today nobody encourages xeno-and-islamophobia. Why does it exist anyway? Well, imho there are many reasons and the native popualtion is not the only one to blame.

I don't think he meant Nazi Germany, he did say that he didn't want to compare it with the Holocaust.

Whatsthepoint · 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishman

I don't think he meant Nazi Germany, he did say that he didn't want to compare it with the Holocaust.

Ah, political correctness.. Of course he compared it with the holocuats, not the massive extermination but the persecution before that.
What else could he have compared it with? The persecution Jews face today? Today's Jews have very little to complain about, muslims and several other minorities for that matter face much tougher dicriminaton and persecution.

Fishman · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

Ah, political correctness.. Of course he compared it with the holocuats, not the massive extermination but the persecution before that.
What else could he have compared it with? The persecution Jews face today? Today's Jews have very little to complain about, muslims and several other minorities for that matter face much tougher dicriminaton and persecution.

Jews in pre-Nazi Europe, leading up to the Holocaust?

Amadeus85 · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishman

Jews in pre-Nazi Europe, leading up to the Holocaust?

As far as I know the pre- nazi era wasnt so bad for Jews in Europe. of course times changed to worse with that notorious Austrian came to power.

Whatsthepoint · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishman

Jews in pre-Nazi Europe, leading up to the Holocaust?

No, I mean Jews in nazi Germany and nazi occupied Europe prior to the massive deportations and subsequent extermination.

glo · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-06-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

What muslims face today is xenophobia, some discrimation and occasional violence, muslims aren't the only ones to feel that way. What Jews and other peoples felt during the nazi regime was institutionalized xenophobia and severe government-funded persecution. Big difference.

Besides, anti-semitism in nazi-Germany was heavely encouraged by the authorities, today nobody encourages xeno-and-islamophobia. Why does it exist anyway? Well, imho there are many reasons and the native popualtion is not the only one to blame.

I believe that Islamophobia in this country has greatly risen since the London bombings, and further bombing attempts.
Therefore, and sadly, it seems undeniable that there is some real evidence people base their fears and prejudices on ...

I am not aware that Jews in Nazi-Germany ever committed any crimes or attacks of such scale, which could have led to their discrimination and persecution.
If I am mistaken, I'd be interested to hear about such incidents.

I think that the prejudices and discrimination of Muslims at the moment is more akin to that of the Irish population or Irish-speakers in the 70s and 80s, during the era of terrorist bombings by the IRA.
My husband tells me of being stopped and searched in London at that time for no reason other than being young, male, ginger-haired and carrying a guitar case (suspicious object, I suppose ...)
At that time, if you sat on the bus or the tube, or stood in a queue, and heard a Norther Irish accent behind you, you'd be suspicious and turn around to check the person out.
I assume that thousands of Irish people suffered a certain amount of prejudice at the time - entirely innocent people!

Those prejudices have stopped ... because the IRA have stopped bombing.
I am sure that once the British public is reassured that Islam is not a religion of violence, and once they can learn to believe that because there is no more fear of terrorist attacks, then everybody (Muslims and non-Muslims alike) can relax again.
Hopefully in years to come this will all be in the past.

May the peace of God be with us all.

KAding · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-06-2008

This might be an inappropriate question, but is there any place on this planet where Muslims are a minority and yet do not feel 'under siege'? If I just think of the periphery around the Muslim majority countries there are always some political and social tensions. Just moving from East to West: Thailand, check. India, check. Russia, check. Balkans, check. Cyprus, check. Western Europe, check. US, check. Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Ethiopia, check, check, check. Seriously, where is a Muslim minority that is comfortable about it's relations with the majority? Canada or something?

Not to say that this means Muslims are themselves responsible for this state of affairs. It might well be that the 'majority' bears a major responsibility. Or maybe it is simply so that minorities always feel under siege one way or another?

**Uthmān** · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-06-2008

Thanks for the post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAding

This might be an inappropriate question, but is there any place on this planet where Muslims are a minority and yet do not feel 'under siege'?

KAding, there are also many many examples of where Muslim minorities co-exist peacefully with the majority. It is unfortunate that such instances don't tend to attract the attention of the mainstream media. More importantly, they don't sell newspapers.

**Muezzin** · 02:24 PM

I personally don't feel under siege. Maybe I'm just thick-skinned and/or apathetic.

There is a lot of anit-Islam/anti-Muslim sentiment, but I'm not surprised given terrorist attacks etc. This does not excuse such attitudes, it's just, given human nature, an unsurprising reaction. As glo said, it's similar to the suspicion of the Irish.

In the States, when Islam is feared, it is feared as if it were the new Red Menace.

Every time has its 'enemy'. That's politics. Most of it is based on ignorance and fear. That sentence applies both to politics and bigots

**Uthmān** · **Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' -** 07-06-2008

British MP: UK Muslims feel like 'the Jews of Europe'

Addressing the issue of anti-Islamic prejudice in the UK, a British government minister has said that the growing culture of hostility has led many Muslims to say they feel targeted like "the Jews of Europe."

Labor MP Shahid Malik, Britain's first Muslim government minister, made the statement in an interview with to be broadcast on Monday on the UK's Channel 4, to coincide with the third anniversary of the 7/7 bombings in London which killed 52 people.

Malik, appointed minister for international development by Prime Minister Gordon Brown last year, said it has somehow become legitimate to target Muslims in a way that would be unacceptable for any other minority.

"Somehow there's a message out there that it is OK to target people as long as it's Muslims, and you don't have to worry about the facts, and people will turn a blind eye," he told the Dispatches program.

Malik made clear that he was not equating the position with the Holocaust.

"I think most people would agree that if you ask Muslims today what do they feel like, they feel like the Jews of Europe," he said. "I don't mean to equate that with the Holocaust, but in the way that it was legitimate almost - and still is in some parts - to target Jews, many Muslims would say that we feel the exact same way."

The Channel 4 documentary, entitled "It Shouldn't Happen to a Muslim," will look at claims that negative attitudes to Muslims have become legitimated by think-tanks and the media who use language now being used by the far right.

He said that many British Muslims now felt like "aliens in their own country" and that he himself had been the target of racist incidents. The MP said he regularly receives anti-Muslim hate mail at his constituency office in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, which was home to Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the 7/7 suicide bombers.

To show how Muslims were being targeted, Malik used an example of a newspaper story that ran in the British press last December claiming that staff in a Dewsbury hospital had been ordered to turn the beds of Muslim patients towards Mecca five times a day.

"It's almost as if you don't have to check your facts when it comes to certain people, and you can just run with those stories," he said. "It makes Muslims feel like aliens in their own country. At a time when we want to engage with Muslims, actually the opposite happens."

A poll accompanying the program found that 51 percent of Britons blame Islam to some degree for the 7/7 attacks while more than a quarter of Muslims now believe Islamic values are not compatible with British ones. Eight out of 10 said they felt a marked increase in hostility toward their faith since the 2005 bombings, while 90% of Muslims said they still felt attached to Britain.

Former Metropolitan Police head of counter terrorism, Andy Hayman, who was Britain's most senior anti-terrorism officer until he resigned last December, is asked on the program why it is important to engage with Muslims who express extreme views.

"Because we're tackling head-on the people that we feel are at the heartbeat of this whole complex agenda," he said. "Not to have a dialogue with them would seem that we are apprehensive, we're scared, we're frightened... So even if it's appeasement in some quarters, that is still a conversation that is not being had and needs to be had."

Simon Woolley, a member of the government's task force tackling race inequality, concurred, saying: "On an almost daily basis, there is rampant Islamophobia in this country, the effect of which is not for our Muslim community to get closer to a sense of Britishness but to feel further away from a feeling of belonging in British society."

Source

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Uthmān LI News Service Status: Offline Posts: 4,359 Reputation: 25121 Rep Power: 63 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Warrington, England Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-05-2008 A government minister has warned that many British Muslims "feel like the Jews of Europe". Dewsbury MP Shahid Malik, who is a minister for international development, stressed that he was not equating the Muslims' situation with the Holocaust. But, in an interview to mark the 7 July bombings anniversary, he suggested that many Muslims felt "under siege". This had the effect of segregating society and undermining efforts to deal with extremism and terrorism, he said. Mr Malik, who revealed he had been the victim of religious hatred himself, made the comments in an interview for a Channel 4 Dispatches programme. He said: "I think most people would agree that if you ask Muslims today what do they feel like, they feel like the Jews of Europe. It is critical we ensure that Britain's near two million Muslims have a sense of belonging... because it is vital in the fight against violent extremism in the name of Islam Shahid Malik, MP for Dewsbury "I don't mean to equate that with the Holocaust but in the way that it was legitimate almost - and still is in some parts - to target Jews, many Muslims would say that we feel the exact same way. "Somehow there's a message out there that it's OK to target people as long as it's Muslims. "And you don't have to worry about the facts, and people will turn a blind eye." David Brown, from the Jewish Life Education Centre, said he did see some parallels between the persecution of Jews in the 20th Century and the contemporary treatment of Muslims. "If you think about the earlier stages of what was going on in Europe in the later (19)20s and early (19)30s and the way that Jews were scapegoated and stereotyped, I can certainly understand a sentiment of that is going on for the Muslim community," he said. The documentary - which investigates whether the fear of terrorism has fuelled a rise of violence, intolerance and hatred against British Muslims - will be broadcast on Monday to coincide with the third anniversary of the 7 July London bombings. British society is in danger of becoming segregated, Mr Malik said Mr Malik's constituency in West Yorkshire was home to 7 July suicide bomber Mohammad Siddique Khan. The MP, who told how his car was firebombed, a car drove at him in a petrol station and said he receives regular hate mail, called for action to be taken to help Muslims feel accepted in society. "It is critical we ensure that Britain's near two million Muslims have a sense of belonging and feel accepted, first and foremost because it is their right as British citizens, but secondly because it is vital in the fight against violent extremism in the name of Islam," he said. "With some 2,000 people under surveillance because of the possibility that they might engage in terrorism the threat of an attack is a very real one and Muslims in communities up and down the country become indispensable in the fight against terrorism. "Yet there is no doubt that many Muslims feel under siege in the media and in society and this siege mentality feeds into a wider victim narrative." Mr Malik said the apparent persecution made it more difficult for people in positions of responsibility to persuade people to challenge the "small minority of extremists who call themselves Muslims". Source __________________ تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي بِيَدِهِ الْمُلْكُ Blessed be he in whose hands is the dominion (67:1)

	(#2 (permalink))
Eric H LI Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 1,416 Reputation: 15622 Rep Power: 46 Join Date: Apr 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Christian	Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-05-2008 Greetings and peace be with you Osman my friend, Do you feel under siege in the UK. Does anyone else feel under siege? In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth Eric

	(#5 (permalink))
Whatsthepoint Account Disabled Status: Offline Posts: 3,790 Reputation: 12510 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Way of Life: Agnostic	Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-05-2008 What muslims face today is xenophobia, some discrimation and occasional violence, muslims aren't the only ones to feel that way. What Jews and other peoples felt during the nazi regime was institutionalized xenophobia and severe government-funded persecution. Big difference. Besides, anti-semitism in nazi-Germany was heavely encouraged by the authorities, today nobody encourages xeno-and-islamophobia. Why does it exist anyway? Well, imho there are many reasons and the native popualtion is not the only one to blame.

	(#12 (permalink))
KAding LI Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 1,401 Reputation: 3265 Rep Power: 25 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: The Netherlands Gender: Way of Life: Atheist	Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-06-2008 This might be an inappropriate question, but is there any place on this planet where Muslims are a minority and yet do not feel 'under siege'? If I just think of the periphery around the Muslim majority countries there are always some political and social tensions. Just moving from East to West: Thailand, check. India, check. Russia, check. Balkans, check. Cyprus, check. Western Europe, check. US, check. Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Ethiopia, check, check, check. Seriously, where is a Muslim minority that is comfortable about it's relations with the majority? Canada or something? Not to say that this means Muslims are themselves responsible for this state of affairs. It might well be that the 'majority' bears a major responsibility. Or maybe it is simply so that minorities always feel under siege one way or another?

	(#14 (permalink))
Muezzin 2 D2 4U Status: Offline Posts: 10,089 Reputation: 40287 Rep Power: 85 Join Date: Jun 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-06-2008 I personally don't feel under siege. Maybe I'm just thick-skinned and/or apathetic. There is a lot of anit-Islam/anti-Muslim sentiment, but I'm not surprised given terrorist attacks etc. This does not excuse such attitudes, it's just, given human nature, an unsurprising reaction. As glo said, it's similar to the suspicion of the Irish. In the States, when Islam is feared, it is feared as if it were the new Red Menace. Every time has its 'enemy'. That's politics. Most of it is based on ignorance and fear. That sentence applies both to politics and bigots __________________ Pay a visit to the masters of might, magic and Monday mornings Fedora-sporting userpage Last edited by Muezzin; 07-06-2008 at 02:24 PM..

	(#15 (permalink))
Uthmān LI News Service Status: Offline Posts: 4,359 Reputation: 25121 Rep Power: 63 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Warrington, England Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Muslims 'under siege like Jews' - 07-06-2008 British MP: UK Muslims feel like 'the Jews of Europe' Addressing the issue of anti-Islamic prejudice in the UK, a British government minister has said that the growing culture of hostility has led many Muslims to say they feel targeted like "the Jews of Europe." Labor MP Shahid Malik, Britain's first Muslim government minister, made the statement in an interview with to be broadcast on Monday on the UK's Channel 4, to coincide with the third anniversary of the 7/7 bombings in London which killed 52 people. Malik, appointed minister for international development by Prime Minister Gordon Brown last year, said it has somehow become legitimate to target Muslims in a way that would be unacceptable for any other minority. "Somehow there's a message out there that it is OK to target people as long as it's Muslims, and you don't have to worry about the facts, and people will turn a blind eye," he told the Dispatches program. Malik made clear that he was not equating the position with the Holocaust. "I think most people would agree that if you ask Muslims today what do they feel like, they feel like the Jews of Europe," he said. "I don't mean to equate that with the Holocaust, but in the way that it was legitimate almost - and still is in some parts - to target Jews, many Muslims would say that we feel the exact same way." The Channel 4 documentary, entitled "It Shouldn't Happen to a Muslim," will look at claims that negative attitudes to Muslims have become legitimated by think-tanks and the media who use language now being used by the far right. He said that many British Muslims now felt like "aliens in their own country" and that he himself had been the target of racist incidents. The MP said he regularly receives anti-Muslim hate mail at his constituency office in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, which was home to Mohammad Sidique Khan, the leader of the 7/7 suicide bombers. To show how Muslims were being targeted, Malik used an example of a newspaper story that ran in the British press last December claiming that staff in a Dewsbury hospital had been ordered to turn the beds of Muslim patients towards Mecca five times a day. "It's almost as if you don't have to check your facts when it comes to certain people, and you can just run with those stories," he said. "It makes Muslims feel like aliens in their own country. At a time when we want to engage with Muslims, actually the opposite happens." A poll accompanying the program found that 51 percent of Britons blame Islam to some degree for the 7/7 attacks while more than a quarter of Muslims now believe Islamic values are not compatible with British ones. Eight out of 10 said they felt a marked increase in hostility toward their faith since the 2005 bombings, while 90% of Muslims said they still felt attached to Britain. Former Metropolitan Police head of counter terrorism, Andy Hayman, who was Britain's most senior anti-terrorism officer until he resigned last December, is asked on the program why it is important to engage with Muslims who express extreme views. "Because we're tackling head-on the people that we feel are at the heartbeat of this whole complex agenda," he said. "Not to have a dialogue with them would seem that we are apprehensive, we're scared, we're frightened... So even if it's appeasement in some quarters, that is still a conversation that is not being had and needs to be had." Simon Woolley, a member of the government's task force tackling race inequality, concurred, saying: "On an almost daily basis, there is rampant Islamophobia in this country, the effect of which is not for our Muslim community to get closer to a sense of Britishness but to feel further away from a feeling of belonging in British society." Source __________________ تَبَارَكَ الَّذِي بِيَدِهِ الْمُلْكُ Blessed be he in whose hands is the dominion (67:1)