A plan to radicalise Muslims

Osman · **A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-05-2008

This is what the government should be doing if it wants to promote extremism.

Communities minister Ruth Kelly has announced a six-point plan to deal with extremism and radicalisation among young Muslims. Here is my 12-point plan that is guaranteed to turn young Muslims into radicals.

1. Associate extremism with Islam and terrorism with Muslims.
The best way to destroy people's confidence is to continuously connect them and their faith with violence and fanaticism. They will feel victimised and under attack. When they feel that there is a conspiracy against them they will become more extreme and some may resort to terrorism.

2. Interfere with the way mosques are run.
Send consultants and civil servants to help draw up plans to ensure that the mosques are used for rituals and secular activities only. Train the management on how to ban debates and discussions and only allow such debates and discussions that support a particular agenda. Any dissent must be quelled and quickly labelled as extremist - especially those who criticise the government's foreign policies. Make sure all the mosques are run by government-friendly people. And just for good measure recruit members of the committee to be informers - the eyes and ears of the secret services.

3. Tell imams what to say.
Invest in a new generation of imams who are not politicised and who focus on a secular notion of spirituality. Imams who speak good English to give standardised sermons and lessons from syllabuses and literature which has been vetted by the Whitehall experts. Promote scholars and academics who are not loyal to their faith and are willing to exchange their faith teachings for titles, fame and fortune.

4. Set up and fund rival Muslim groups.
Let the Muslim community compete for attention. Let there be an internal fight for control and influence. Keep the Muslim community divided. Send threats to those groups who do not toe the line with disengagement and no funds. Pretend to be friends with one, while condemning the other and vice versa. Since young Muslims are normally not part of the hierarchy, do not bother talking to them.

5. Raid Muslim family houses.
Use anti-terror laws to raid Muslim family houses in as many cities as possible. Make sure you carry out such raids openly and publicly with maximum number of police and marked vehicles. Discreetly alert the media just before the raid so that it can be headline news the next day.

6. Arrest and detain more young Muslims.
Arrest and detain young Muslims who are Asian or Arab looking, who wear a beard and foreign clothes, hang around a mosque or have recently become more religious. They are the potential terrorists. Go through their mobile phones, computers, contact lists, text messages and emails. Copy all the information, call friends or family members of the detainee and threaten them with arrest unless they co-operate. There are 28 days to frame the detainee. If the detainee is intelligent and of good value, offer him positions or incentives to be an informer for the secret services.

7. Boast about the success in Iraq and send more troops to consolidate it.
The invasion of Iraq was to give Iraqis the taste of freedom and democracy. It is not your fault that the Iraqis have chosen to kill themselves. They have given shelter to al-Qaida, become part of a terrorist network and now carry out suicide attacks against the troops from the coalition of the willing. The only way to deal with terrorists is to eliminate them. A few innocent lives may be lost in the process but it is a worthwhile price Iraqis have to pay for democracy.

8. Kill more Afghans and blame the Taliban for it.
Afghans are producing drugs that are destroying young people in the western world. Even Islam does not sanction production of narcotics. They are responsible for Bin Laden and al-Qaida. They are responsible for 9/11 attacks in the USA and July 7 bombings in London. They are backward, ill-educated and most importantly they are not willing to modernise themselves. The Taliban are hiding in Afghanistan. They must be flushed out. There is no choice but to send more troops and destroy those people who wish to take the world back to the dark ages. The task is simple: kill them wherever you find them, and if the precise intelligence is lacking about their whereabouts destroy the whole village. What is loss of few Afghan lives compared to one eliminated Taliban?

9. Threaten Tehran with economic sanctions for its nuclear ambitions but supply Israel with the most sophisticated weapons of mass destruction.
The western world needs a good nuclear deterrent against rogue states such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria. They pose a threat now and even though they do not have any nuclear weapons they have the intention of acquiring them and then using them on the western countries and Israel. The strategy must be to make sure that no Muslim country ever acquires nuclear weapons. If they even show that intention threaten them with bombs that would take their countries back to dark ages.

10. Ignore the plight of the Palestinians but condemn the Palestinian people even when Israel carries out aggression against the Palestinians.
Our position is very clear: Israel can never do anything wrong. They are a democratic country and whatever they do we will support them. On the other hand, Palestinians do not even have a country or a leadership; we do not know who to talk to; they prefer violence and do not know the language of peace. How can we talk to a people who are so uncivilised that they carry out suicide bombing killing themselves and killing everyone around them? There could never be peace with people who do not recognise Israel's right to exist, after all it is God's Promised Land for the Jewish people. To deny that is to deny God.

11. Support, aid and abet the illegitimate despots of the Middle East and the Muslim world.
Supply them with arms worth billions of pounds so that they can remain in power. Encourage them to lock up political opponents, especially if they happen to be practising Muslims. Promise them aid and favours if they join in with "war on terror" and use this to subjugate their people and dismantle civil institutions including the media. Teach them how to torture prisoners safely. Institute sanctions against the people if they exercise their freewill to vote for anyone but the despots. Stay silent when these despots bequeath the thrones to their sons.

12. Guantanamo prison is to make the world a safer place
Abduct young Muslims from anywhere in the world then throw them in Guantanamo prison. Let them rot there. They have no rights. They are illegal combatants or terrorists.

Source

Suomipoika · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Media in the west is repeatedly blamed over the image of Islam and blurring the lines between honest muslims and those madmen who kill innocent civilians, so Im kind of curious why it is now okay for suspected terrorists to be referred as "muslim families" and "muslim youth"? Why there is no outrage or backlash when westophobic propaganda refers to terrorists by calling them muslims?

For example, can anyone even imagine the outrage if the terrorist group that blew themselves up when the police went to arrest them after Madrid train bombings had been called "muslim family" by media like the author of this article does?

**aamirsaab** · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

I understood that article as being heavily sarcastic. It struck me as odd that some of those who commented on the article, didn't actually figure this out....(but then again, this is the internet)

Suomipoika, the media shouldn't even mention Islam or muslim when talking about these terrorists and whatnot. It fails to mention any other religion when refering to say acts of terrorism commited by an aethiest so it should do the same in these cases. But then again, people just want to hate at the end of the day so my points are pretty pointless.

Society is stupid.

Izyan · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

I understood that article as being heavily sarcastic. It struck me as odd that some of those who commented on the article, didn't actually figure this out....(but then again, this is the internet)

Suomipoika, the media shouldn't even mention Islam or muslim when talking about these terrorists and whatnot. It fails to mention any other religion when refering to say acts of terrorism commited by an aethiest so it should do the same in these cases. But then again, people just want to hate at the end of the day so my points are pretty pointless.

Society is stupid.

They doesn't mention religion for other terrorist groups because they don't use religion as their motivation. For example Timothy didn't blow up Oklahoma City building because of their opression and God demands retribution so you have no idea what his religious background is. On the other hand it was widely reported that David Koresh was a fanatical christian during the Waco showdown. There are instance where religion is important to the story and others when it is not.

Suomipoika · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

Suomipoika, the media shouldn't even mention Islam or muslim when talking about these terrorists and whatnot. It fails to mention any other religion when refering to say acts of terrorism commited by an aethiest so it should do the same in these cases. But then again, people just want to hate at the end of the day so my points are pretty pointless.

I disagree.

Despite claims, Islam really is no special case. For example christian sects have been pretty heavily tied in the anti-abortion violence, see this bbc article, where religion is mentioned in the article, and its not Islam: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3077040.stm and there is plenty of more from the polygamist mormons who force underage girls to marry to Waco massacre (which is probably one of the biggest religious related incident I remember before 9/11), if one just bothers to find out instead of blaming media, endlessly.

If someone murders because they are atheist and the other isnt, and the murderer and his group proclaim it loudly and proudly, you can bet it will be mentioned in the news.

Why shouldnt religion be mentioned in that bbc article? Personally I dont understand the logic behind that if something is used to justify an negative action, then it shouldnt be mentioned in the news or it is "hating".

---

Anyway, I dont spot the sarcasm either like so many others, mainly I see it written as the usual very tired anti-west garbage.

**aamirsaab** · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izyan

They doesn't mention religion for other terrorist groups because they don't use religion as their motivation. For example Timothy didn't blow up Oklahoma City building because of their opression and God demands retribution so you have no idea what his religious background is. On the other hand it was widely reported that David Koresh was a fanatical christian during the Waco showdown. There are instance where religion is important to the story and others when it is not.

I agree that there are instances where religion has a motive. But this is not the case all of the time. When it (Islam or muslims) is not a factor or motive, the media should not mention it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by suomipoika

Anyway, I dont spot the sarcasm either like so many others, mainly I see it written as the usual very tired anti-west garbage.

Erm, he wasn't being anti-west. He was just pointing very blatant things out in a satirical manner.

Suomipoika · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

I agree that there are instances where religion has a motive. But this is not the case all of the time. When it (Islam or muslims) is not a factor or motive, the media should not mention it.

Agreed, but when religion is used as a motive/justificiation/factor and it is reported, then people shouldnt go on and on about media bias like seems to be the fashion these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

Erm, he wasn't being anti-west. He was just pointing very blatant things out in a satirical manner.

Hard as I try, I dont really spot the satirical manner.

Who knows, maybe Im just idiot and perhaps someone could explain it to stupid me, pearls for piqs and all that.

Whatsthepoint · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

[quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

I agree that there are instances where religion has a motive. But this is not the case all of the time. When it (Islam or muslims) is not a factor or motive, the media should not mention it.

There have been hardly any terrorist acts committed by Muslim individuals that had nothing to do with Islam and Muslims. If you know a case and the perpetrator's religion was mentioned, I'd like to see it.
When a Muslim commits a regular crime that has nothing to do with Islam, the religion is seldom mentioned. Again, bring up a case, where it is mentioned.

Whatsthepoint · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

I skimmed through Ajmal Masroor's articles. Here's one that caught my interest.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blairthemuslim
I'm not sure whether he's being serious or sarcastic, condemning Blair's political correctness.

bewildred · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Well, I must admit that I ditto Whatsthepoint's point of view.

**aamirsaab** · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

There have been hardly any terrorist acts committed by Muslim individuals that had nothing to do with Islam and Muslims. If you know a case and the perpetrator's religion was mentioned, I'd like to see it.
When a Muslim commits a regular crime that has nothing to do with Islam, the religion is seldom mentioned. Again, bring up a case, where it is mentioned.

My point is, often there is no need to mention the word: muslim or Islam. here is an example of where the word muslim doesn't need to be used at all. Words like muslim, Islam and islamicist don't need to be mentioned - just mention the names of the people or organisation - you don't need to mention the religion. But then newspapers wouldn't fly off the shelves without those buzzwords.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blairthemuslim = the headline clearly was sarcastic. I understood the majority of his article to be straight up, as it were (i.e. not sarcastic or satirical)

Izyan · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

My point is, often there is no need to mention the word: muslim or Islam. here is an example of where the word muslim doesn't need to be used at all. Words like muslim, Islam and islamicist don't need to be mentioned - just mention the names of the people or organisation - you don't need to mention the religion. But then newspapers wouldn't fly off the shelves without those buzzwords.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blairthemuslim = the headline clearly was sarcastic. I understood the majority of his article to be straight up, as it were (i.e. not sarcastic or satirical)

The thing is even though I'm an American I read the guardian and the Independent quite often and they very rarely mention muslim. They normally list the person name and place of orgin.

Whatsthepoint · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by aamirsaab

My point is, often there is no need to mention the word: muslim or Islam. here is an example of where the word muslim doesn't need to be used at all. Words like muslim, Islam and islamicist don't need to be mentioned - just mention the names of the people or organisation - you don't need to mention the religion. But then newspapers wouldn't fly off the shelves without those buzzwords.

The organization is called Moro Islamic Liberation Front, they're separatists and claim to be Muslims, and that's about everything the article says in concern to Islam and Muslims.
See, the job of the media is to report. They reported the facts, so I don't see a problem with the article. What would you have them say? That a bunch of Filipinos who just happen to be Muslims want an independent state? That's simply not true.
I doesn't matter whether the organization abused the religion to fit its political goals, what's done is done and the media reported it.

In cases where religion has nothing to do with the crime, religion is never or seldom used.

**aamirsaab** · **Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims -** 08-20-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izyan

The thing is even though I'm an American I read the guardian and the Independent quite often and they very rarely mention muslim. They normally list the person name and place of orgin.

Well, it's a start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

The organization is called Moro Islamic Liberation Front, they're separatists and claim to be Muslims, and that's about everything the article says in concern to Islam and Muslims.
See, the job of the media is to report. They reported the facts, so I don't see a problem with the article.

No problem with them reporting the facts - just don't mention buzzwords when you don't have to. That's all I'm saying. When they do mention buzzwords, you get knock-on effects that illustrate society's stupidity in full.

Quote:

What would you have them say? That a bunch of Filipinos who just happen to be Muslims want an independent state? That's simply not true.

They don't need to use any more words than they should. Basically, I'd much rather the news relay facts and facts alone - zero spin (intentional or otherwise). THough, as I stated before, news wouldn't sell as well.

	(#1 (permalink))
Osman Account Disabled Status: Offline Posts: 3,571 Reputation: 16416 Rep Power: 0 Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Warrington, England Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	A plan to radicalise Muslims - 08-05-2008 This is what the government should be doing if it wants to promote extremism. Communities minister Ruth Kelly has announced a six-point plan to deal with extremism and radicalisation among young Muslims. Here is my 12-point plan that is guaranteed to turn young Muslims into radicals. 1. Associate extremism with Islam and terrorism with Muslims. The best way to destroy people's confidence is to continuously connect them and their faith with violence and fanaticism. They will feel victimised and under attack. When they feel that there is a conspiracy against them they will become more extreme and some may resort to terrorism. 2. Interfere with the way mosques are run. Send consultants and civil servants to help draw up plans to ensure that the mosques are used for rituals and secular activities only. Train the management on how to ban debates and discussions and only allow such debates and discussions that support a particular agenda. Any dissent must be quelled and quickly labelled as extremist - especially those who criticise the government's foreign policies. Make sure all the mosques are run by government-friendly people. And just for good measure recruit members of the committee to be informers - the eyes and ears of the secret services. 3. Tell imams what to say. Invest in a new generation of imams who are not politicised and who focus on a secular notion of spirituality. Imams who speak good English to give standardised sermons and lessons from syllabuses and literature which has been vetted by the Whitehall experts. Promote scholars and academics who are not loyal to their faith and are willing to exchange their faith teachings for titles, fame and fortune. 4. Set up and fund rival Muslim groups. Let the Muslim community compete for attention. Let there be an internal fight for control and influence. Keep the Muslim community divided. Send threats to those groups who do not toe the line with disengagement and no funds. Pretend to be friends with one, while condemning the other and vice versa. Since young Muslims are normally not part of the hierarchy, do not bother talking to them. 5. Raid Muslim family houses. Use anti-terror laws to raid Muslim family houses in as many cities as possible. Make sure you carry out such raids openly and publicly with maximum number of police and marked vehicles. Discreetly alert the media just before the raid so that it can be headline news the next day. 6. Arrest and detain more young Muslims. Arrest and detain young Muslims who are Asian or Arab looking, who wear a beard and foreign clothes, hang around a mosque or have recently become more religious. They are the potential terrorists. Go through their mobile phones, computers, contact lists, text messages and emails. Copy all the information, call friends or family members of the detainee and threaten them with arrest unless they co-operate. There are 28 days to frame the detainee. If the detainee is intelligent and of good value, offer him positions or incentives to be an informer for the secret services. 7. Boast about the success in Iraq and send more troops to consolidate it. The invasion of Iraq was to give Iraqis the taste of freedom and democracy. It is not your fault that the Iraqis have chosen to kill themselves. They have given shelter to al-Qaida, become part of a terrorist network and now carry out suicide attacks against the troops from the coalition of the willing. The only way to deal with terrorists is to eliminate them. A few innocent lives may be lost in the process but it is a worthwhile price Iraqis have to pay for democracy. 8. Kill more Afghans and blame the Taliban for it. Afghans are producing drugs that are destroying young people in the western world. Even Islam does not sanction production of narcotics. They are responsible for Bin Laden and al-Qaida. They are responsible for 9/11 attacks in the USA and July 7 bombings in London. They are backward, ill-educated and most importantly they are not willing to modernise themselves. The Taliban are hiding in Afghanistan. They must be flushed out. There is no choice but to send more troops and destroy those people who wish to take the world back to the dark ages. The task is simple: kill them wherever you find them, and if the precise intelligence is lacking about their whereabouts destroy the whole village. What is loss of few Afghan lives compared to one eliminated Taliban? 9. Threaten Tehran with economic sanctions for its nuclear ambitions but supply Israel with the most sophisticated weapons of mass destruction. The western world needs a good nuclear deterrent against rogue states such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and Syria. They pose a threat now and even though they do not have any nuclear weapons they have the intention of acquiring them and then using them on the western countries and Israel. The strategy must be to make sure that no Muslim country ever acquires nuclear weapons. If they even show that intention threaten them with bombs that would take their countries back to dark ages. 10. Ignore the plight of the Palestinians but condemn the Palestinian people even when Israel carries out aggression against the Palestinians. Our position is very clear: Israel can never do anything wrong. They are a democratic country and whatever they do we will support them. On the other hand, Palestinians do not even have a country or a leadership; we do not know who to talk to; they prefer violence and do not know the language of peace. How can we talk to a people who are so uncivilised that they carry out suicide bombing killing themselves and killing everyone around them? There could never be peace with people who do not recognise Israel's right to exist, after all it is God's Promised Land for the Jewish people. To deny that is to deny God. 11. Support, aid and abet the illegitimate despots of the Middle East and the Muslim world. Supply them with arms worth billions of pounds so that they can remain in power. Encourage them to lock up political opponents, especially if they happen to be practising Muslims. Promise them aid and favours if they join in with "war on terror" and use this to subjugate their people and dismantle civil institutions including the media. Teach them how to torture prisoners safely. Institute sanctions against the people if they exercise their freewill to vote for anyone but the despots. Stay silent when these despots bequeath the thrones to their sons. 12. Guantanamo prison is to make the world a safer place Abduct young Muslims from anywhere in the world then throw them in Guantanamo prison. Let them rot there. They have no rights. They are illegal combatants or terrorists. Source

	(#2 (permalink))
Suomipoika LI Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 156 Reputation: 316 Rep Power: 11 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Finland Gender: Way of Life: Undisclosed	Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims - 08-20-2008 Media in the west is repeatedly blamed over the image of Islam and blurring the lines between honest muslims and those madmen who kill innocent civilians, so Im kind of curious why it is now okay for suspected terrorists to be referred as "muslim families" and "muslim youth"? Why there is no outrage or backlash when westophobic propaganda refers to terrorists by calling them muslims? For example, can anyone even imagine the outrage if the terrorist group that blew themselves up when the police went to arrest them after Madrid train bombings had been called "muslim family" by media like the author of this article does?

	(#9 (permalink))
Whatsthepoint Agnostic revert Status: Offline Posts: 1,900 Reputation: 5527 Rep Power: 14 Join Date: Oct 2007 Gender: Way of Life: Agnostic	Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims - 08-20-2008 I skimmed through Ajmal Masroor's articles. Here's one that caught my interest. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blairthemuslim I'm not sure whether he's being serious or sarcastic, condemning Blair's political correctness.

	(#10 (permalink))
bewildred Finding my way... Status: Offline Posts: 290 Reputation: 1114 Rep Power: 9 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: A plan to radicalise Muslims - 08-20-2008 *Well, I must admit that I ditto Whatsthepoint's point of view.* __________________ You are the WE of me (Carson McCullers)

	(#15 (permalink))
Whatsthepoint Agnostic revert Status: Offline Posts: 1,900 Reputation: 5527 Rep Power: 14