What else we can expect from a country ran by the Grand Orient.

What about wearing masks??? it seems so unfair.

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I hope our muslims brothers and sisters in France take this all the way to European human rights court.

Lash and flog all the Western women who show their bodies in Islamic countries. But I doubt the leaders of these Islamic countries are as pious as the Salaf.

I believe this will be followed by banning of Hijab in rest of the Europe aswell.

Perhaps when muslim countries start giving non-muslim's right in their countries, they will get the same in return, or even appear reasonable asking for them?

Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah

Perhaps when muslim countries start giving non-muslim's right in their countries, they will get the same in return, or even appear reasonable asking for them?

What an apologetic tone? Non-Muslim countries are supposed to give equal rights to all of its citizens. These Muslims are its citizens. France follows a secular law and by virtue of that no citizen has to be discriminated.

In Muslim countries, a discrimination must be maintained between Muslims and dhimmis. Not a moral one but a physical one. A dhimmi or a kaafir cannot be a general in Muslim army in a Muslim country for example. You want to revoke laws such as these which you of course find discriminatory?

Originally Posted by Uthman

Mr Copé insists the law is based on public safety and sexual equality considerations and does not restrict religious practices.

"We spoke to religious and secular figures who all confirmed [the burka] was not a religious prescription. Wearing the full body veil is about extremists who want to test the republic," he said.

I don't care, and neither should anyone else for that matter what French secular and religius figures consider the burkha to be. (Not that something being religious ought to exclude it from public law). The government, or figures within should not decide what something is and whether it should be used.

Also what is he talking about "testing the republic?" this sounds like shades of some totalitarian dystopia. How does one 'test the republic'? By showing how free they ought to be in choice of clothing? Why does also he think trying to fine them for it will actually convince them of their errors and not enflame them?

Disgraceful.

France passed a law in 2004 banning students and staff from wearing "conspicuous" religious symbols in schools – including veils – to defend secularism.

As a Secularist, this is embarassing.

For shame

Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist

What an apologetic tone? Non-Muslim countries are supposed to give equal rights to all of its citizens. These Muslims are its citizens. France follows a secular law and by virtue of that no citizen has to be discriminated. In Muslim countries, a discrimination must be maintained between Muslims and dhimmis. Not a moral one but a physical one. A dhimmi or a kaafir cannot be a general in Muslim army in a Muslim country for example. You want to revoke laws such as these which you of course find discriminatory?

Is their law set in stone? We cannot force them to abide by their own laws. And they aren't. Perhaps you think we should just protest and make a big hoo-haa about it. Perhaps you're even right. But shouldn't we as muslims take a long hard look at ourselves and be the kind of people who seem justified in asking for those rights? And probably even attaining them because we are considered worthy of them? So far we, the Ummah as a whole have done nothing to strengthen ties with non muslims of the lands we reside in. We have taken and given nothing back.


Is there any service set up by muslim that benefits muslims and the natives in non muslim lands. Please excuse my ignorance if there is, but in the decades of living in a non muslim land I've not heard of one. In the recent years when UK suffered severed flooding, what did muslims in UK to do help? Nothing because the areas flooded were predominantly non muslim. There have been and are many problems which muslims and non muslim face socially as a society, yet there is never a service/solution initiated by muslims living here. I’d rather not get into the damage caused by muslims living in non muslim lands.


Allah did not prohibit us from being kind to non muslims who are neither fighting us or driving us from our homes. Nor are we prohibited from spending a part of our wealth on them. Yet have we? Society has many needs. But muslims have segregated themselves and done the opposite to what Islam required of us. We mustn’t forget that all non muslim are potential muslims, and it is by strengthening social ties as part of a community that we can give non muslims a real insight into what Islam is all about. Our purpose is to invite people to Islam, not push them away. But if we only take, take and take from anyone and we will never prosper.



I didn’t in any way suggest non muslims be granted permission to participate in Islamic affairs. What I was saying is that non muslims don't even have basic rights in Pakistan muslim ruled country. Did Islam prohibited non muslims from practicing their religion inside their own home in muslim lands? In theory they are allowed, yet some Christians in Arab have even been jailed for doing just that.


But back to Pakistan. The only jobs most Christians can get are working as maids/servants in muslim households. The worst of which I have witnessed with my own eyes, was the Christian woman who used to go door to door in a muslim area with an industrial sized empty old (ghee) container tied on her back so that she could scoop **** from the old-fashioned toilets which did not flush and remove it from the houses. I don't recall Islam encouraging muslims to treat non muslim in their lands like this.

If we are suffering as an Ummah it is because of our own failings. We should not expect any good unless we strive to do good; not only for muslims but for the people whose lands we live in.


The prophet (saw) supported the pagan Makkan Hilf ul Fudul because it was created to establish fairness and justice in commercial dealings. His support for it was such that he would mention the event to the companions in the future.


We can shout all we want about ‘our rights’. But let’s not forget Islam the very religion we follow has given rights to all human beings regardless of their beliefs. We have to give and take. That is what the meaning behind my previous post was.


Allah gives us what we earn.

“For Allah will never change the grace which He has bestowed on a people until they change what is in themselves: and verily Allah is He Who hears and knows (all things).” [Sûrah al-Anfâl: 53]


Let’s not only look at the injustices done to muslims, but also at what muslims are doing by their own hands. So I do feel apologetic for muslims not being the nation Allah and His Messenger (Pbuh) commanded us to be and thus depriving them from seeing true beauty of Islam.

Originally Posted by syilla

What about wearing masks??? it seems so unfair.

That's exactly how it should be looked at becasue thats exactly what it is. Anywhere you can wear a mask you should be allowed to wear one of these. That said, there ARE public safety reasons why people are not allowed to wear masks everywhere and they should apply to this too.

Double standards, they dont mind the Nuns wearing their Burkhas but have a problem with Muslims wearing them

Seven hundred pound fine for wearing a piece of cloth over your face.

I'm sure there's a joke to be made here but for the life of me I can't get one out.

hmmm they go on about freedom of speech, what about freedom of clothing? I think freedom of clothing and being able to wear what you want is just as important as freedom as speech. hypo's.

i just want to say that there's other modest clothing out there other then burkas and they said nothing about the hijab so far. its seems that i am hearing different fatwas all the time what is expected of a muslimah for example that its not compulsory to cover the face and that you can expose your face and your hands.