Originally Posted by Supreme

I know it's never going to happen, I was suggesting what if. The Taliban aren't educated, because if they were educated, they wouldn't be Taliban in the first place. They're too stupid to ever surrender.

You missed the point again, they're not meant to surrender or are you saying our beliefs are 'stupid'

You got to give some respect to anyone who fights for what they believe in. Wether or not you , I or anyone else agrees or disagrees they are right or wrong, we are not there. All we hear is the media's rendition of events that happen abroad. I have respect for anyone, who fight's justly for a cause they believe is correct. On the other hand you have some who are just taught and or forced to fight without even knowing what for That's the sad part.

God be with them.Amen

afghanistan is sitting on a goldmine, of course they want their friendship...

friendship comes IDF style of course:

Originally Posted by aadil77

You missed the point again, they're not meant to surrender or are you saying our beliefs are 'stupid'

You're right. The Afghans are entitled to fight against the oppressors which includes the Taliban themselves who are largely foreign x). The Taliban are Pakistani and Arab puppets.

Muslims don't have nationalities..the only thing largely foreign are the defecates dropped by the U.S and its allies to reek havoc and steal afghanistan's natural resources.

Also, natural resources belong to all Muslims, not some elected officials or a royal family. They should go immediately to beyt al'mal and be available to every needy Muslim as is decreed religiously.. of course we all know when the scum of the earth will sink their tentacles there as they have every where else and feign being good.

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Muslims don't have nationalities..the only thing largely foreign are the defecates dropped by the U.S and its allies to reek havoc and steal afghanistan's natural resources.

Also, natural resources belong to all Muslims, not some elected officials or a royal family. They should go immediately to beyt al'mal and be available to every needy Muslim as is decreed religiously.. of course we all know when the scum of the earth will sink their tentacles there as they have every where else and feign being good.

Ideally there would be no racial boundaries or ethnic boundaries or nationalistic boundaries between Muslims. A quick look at their passports would say otherwise, unfortunate as it may be. Nevertheless, Afghanistan's history is full of foreign occupation and the Taliban are just as bad as the NATO forces. Oppression is oppression even if it is your 'Muslim brothers' who are the oppressors.

Originally Posted by Lynx

Ideally there would be no racial boundaries or ethnic boundaries or nationalistic boundaries between Muslims. A quick look at their passports would say otherwise, unfortunate as it may be. Nevertheless, Afghanistan's history is full of foreign occupation and the Taliban are just as bad as the NATO forces. Oppression is oppression even if it is your 'Muslim brothers' who are the oppressors.

Given that you don't know much about the taliban save what your media feeds you, I'd refrain from passing freely the confident labels.
The whole reason the Muslim world is dismantled to begin with, is because of the benevolent west.. Now even if the taliban were the evil monsters they are portrayed to be, I am sure the locals can handle them personally.. kindly take your troops and interests out of the entire Muslim world and keep your good will and cheer toward man internally. You have miserable folks right in your backyard that need help.. don't waste your effort, your breath or the ink of your pen advocating for folks who don't want you. As we all know the reasons that yours are there are less than honorable!

all the best

Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Given that you don't know much about the taliban save what your media feeds you, I'd refrain from passing freely the confident labels.
The whole reason the Muslim world is dismantled to begin with, is because of the benevolent west.. Now even if the taliban were the evil monsters they are portrayed to be, I am sure the locals can handle them personally.. kindly take your troops and interests out of the entire Muslim world and keep your good will and cheer toward man internally. You have miserable folks right in your backyard that need help.. don't waste your effort, your breath or the ink of your pen advocating for folks who don't want you. As we all know the reasons that you are there are less than honorable!

all the best

The Taliban were oppressors. You can take a look at Afghan media prior to the invasion if you'd like but most Taliban sympathizers don't actually..know anything of the Taliban except 'they're Muslim so I must support them over the evil Ferangi!". Of course I do agree with you that the Invasion by the West is solely for the West's benefits and not the Afghans. It's the same as the Cold War where Afghanistan was used by the West to stop Soviet expansion. And yes, a lot of why the Muslim world, with the exception of a few places, is in ruin is because of the West (Muslims don't know how to get along themselves so that didn't help much even since the time of the Fatimids or even prior, the Ummayads). The West out competed the Islamic countries. Capitalism = buy everyone out. But at the very least, globalization is going to take the Muslim out of the gutter, albeit, without their culture intact. But that's just speculation

Originally Posted by aadil77

You missed the point again, they're not meant to surrender or are you saying our beliefs are 'stupid'

No, I was calling the Taliban stupid. Obviously, this isn't true for all the Taliban insurgents, but these people are fighting because they were never educated and don't have good jobs in the first place, and the Taliban pays rather well. Add to that the poverty and general lawlessness of Afghanistan, you're in business, you can go about killing and maiming left, right and center for money whilst using ideals and beliefs as an excuse.

Muslims don't have nationalities..the only thing largely foreign are the defecates dropped by the U.S and its allies to reek havoc and steal afghanistan's natural resources.

Well, as long as the people torturing Afghanis, stealing from Afghanis, occupying Afghanis, blowing up Afghani civilians and indiscriminantly killing Afghanis are Muslims.

Well, why didn't you say so? It makes oh so much more moral now!

Originally Posted by Supreme

How was it showing hostility to Muslims? The USA had a rather good relationship with the Muslim world until 9/11, and the USA played a significant role in helping the Mujahadeen to victory against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Dear Supreme,

May I ask what the name is of the galaxy you live in? It seems that we live in separate galaxies

The U.S. has been torturing Muslim countries for decades. Shall I give just two examples? First, they support and protect Israel, the brutal occupying power in the Middle East which is inflicting unimaginable suffering and death on Muslims. The U.S. has been torturing Iran since 1953. Toppling their regime, installing puppet regimes, placing sanctions, threatening with invasion etc. If you don't submit to total U.S. domination, you will be considered an enemy and have to deal with threats, brutal sanctions, secret CIA operations, invasions and much more.

What they have done in Iraq is even worse. The sanctions alone killed over half a million people (at least). Don't you think this is a very serious act of hostility? Saddam was their best friend when this relationship served their interests. There is so much more to say. Please read "Killing Hope" by William Blum, and "Hegemony or Survival - America's quest for global dominance" by Noam Chomsky.

this is good news for us. it seems the west is getting desperate and realising they cant win. they wouldnt be negotiating peace talks if they thought they could overthrow them.

but then i just fear they dont pull a vietnam or hirsohima on it and withdraw. like the cowards do when they get beat...

but nah. theres something special about afghanistan that drew them there and they obviously havent got it yet.

Originally Posted by Argamemnon

Dear Supreme,

May I ask what the name is of the galaxy you live in? It seems that we live in separate galaxies

The U.S. has been torturing Muslim countries for decades. Shall I give just two examples? First, they support and protect Israel, the brutal occupying power in the Middle East which is inflicting unimaginable suffering and death on Muslims. The U.S. has been torturing Iran since 1953. Toppling their regime, installing puppet regimes, placing sanctions, threatening with invasion etc. If you don't submit to total U.S. domination, you will be considered an enemy and have to deal with threats, brutal sanctions, secret CIA operations, invasions and much more.

What they have done in Iraq is even worse. The sanctions alone killed over half a million people (at least). Don't you think this is a very serious act of hostility? Saddam was their best friend when this relationship served their interests. There is so much more to say. Please read "Killing Hope" by William Blum, and "Hegemony or Survival - America's quest for global dominance" by Noam Chomsky.

I don't think it's fair to say that America's been hostile to the Muslim world because of Israel. Before 9/11, Americans supported Israel, not because they were Islamophobic, but because they were pro Jewish.

As for Iran, it's nothing special. America's been doing the same in other countries for years, irregardless of what faith the majority adheres to. It's part of the American desire for dominance, it's in their nature.

However, post 9/11, I would agree America has become increasingly hostile to Muslims.

Originally Posted by Supreme

I don't think it's fair to say that America's been hostile to the Muslim world because of Israel. Before 9/11, Americans supported Israel, not because they were Islamophobic, but because they were pro Jewish.

It's precisely because of unconditional U.S. support that Israel can sustain this occupation and rejects any peace initiative, Arab or International.

As for Iran, it's nothing special. America's been doing the same in other countries for years, irregardless of what faith the majority adheres to. It's part of the American desire for dominance, it's in their nature.

It is 'special' for those who are suffering. As Muslims we are obliged to defend ourselves. Should we just allow them to do what they want? Why? Does or did America or Britain ever turn the other cheek?

Originally Posted by tango92

this is good news for us. it seems the west is getting desperate and realising they cant win. they wouldnt be negotiating peace talks if they thought they could overthrow them.

but then i just fear they dont pull a vietnam or hirsohima on it and withdraw. like the cowards do when they get beat...

but nah. theres something special about afghanistan that drew them there and they obviously havent got it yet.

Sadly, they just may have achieved their goal. The goal being to keep the region unstable. There is no desire to bring peace to the region. At this time the purpose being to make in unfeasible for China to mine the Aykan Copper Deposits near Kabul and keep it too costly for China to put pipelines and railroad tracks through Afghanistan.

I believe the USA sees China as being the greatest threat to the USA in terms of economics and military strength. China is winning the economic war as China businesses now own nearly 1/3 of the USA bussinesses and is the largest portion of the National debt is owed to China. China is the only country with sufficient man power to occupy the US. The one thing China lacks is sufficient fuel resources to launch and invasion against the USA.

China has signed some of the largest oil leases in history with Iran and Iraq. But to get the oil is going to require pipelines and rail roads through Afghanistan and Pakistan. If China is going to build up it's mechanized military it needs the oil. The key to getting the oil is Afghanistan.

The easiest way for the USA to keep China from getting the oil, is to keep Afghanistan unstable and in turmoil. The USA has no need for Afghanistan, but it has a need to keep China out.

I see this as a war between China and the USA, but we are fighting it by using Afghanistan as the battlefield. Economically it is less costly for the USA to stay in a state of war in Afghanistan for 100 years, than to have an open war with China for one week.

I suspect the USA will remain in Afghanistan until Afghanistan becomes worthless to China.

Originally Posted by Supreme

How was it showing hostility to Muslims? The USA had a rather good relationship with the Muslim world until 9/11, and the USA played a significant role in helping the Mujahadeen to victory against the Soviets in Afghanistan.

I don't know how hostility is defined in your dictionary but all we have to do is look at the foreign polices of the USA and west in general to refute your dreamy comment.

1 - Supporting corrupt leaders and regimes
2 - Trying to liberalize Muslim world
3 - Supporting Israel occupation
4 - Aiding in wars to cause disunity among Muslims
5 - Supporting media propaganda against Islam and Muslims

If this is not hostility then I wonder what it is!? And then you people wonder why Muslims hate you

All of this was happening before 9/11; 9/11 was simply an excuse to go out with the full plan. If we open our eyes we can see this but if we want to remain blind and pretend that it is not happening then that is a different story.

It is funny that on one said these kuffaar will bash about bad things in Muslim world but on other side they will support the people who are cause for all of bad things. What an irony!