Originally Posted by glo

This thread makes me mad!
I'm outa here ..

Good.. and we sure hope that you are equally mad when your turds bomb entire villages carpet style!

Modern warfare is just not like in old times, were armies would meet on the battlefield, do battle and then depart, civilian casualties were very few and far between them. Now days towns, cities, market places and school playgrounds have become battlefields, is this also the fault of muslims?? We don't want civilian casualities.

I bet the western world would love to blame this on muslims as well, but honestly speaking, it is their technology that has reshaped the face of warfare. They developed bombs, fighter planes, machine guns, and nuclear weaponry. They attack us from hundreds of miles away, bombs that cannot decipher against, civilians, women or children. What do they expect us to do, come and stand in an open field so they can throw bombs on us from 40 000 ft??

I challenge them if they have the guts and care about civilian casualities, to put aside all their modern weaponry and meet us on the battlefield 1 on 1, armed only with swords and shields like in ancient times lets see how long they last.
For them every soldier is a man, for us every man is a soldier.

Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

Good.. and we sure hope that you are equally mad when your turds bomb entire villages carpet style!

Did I not make that very clear?

Originally Posted by glo

That's just as inhumane as missiles which mistakenly hit civilian targets, don't you think? Both repulse me!

What do they call it? Collateral damage?
I call it human lives!

Let me say it again, loud and clear, so there is no more confusion:

I absolutely abhor any kind of warfare, which causes suffering and fear and pain and death to innocent civilians! Full stop!

It doesn't matter whether they are Muslims, Christians, atheists or followers of any other religion; whether they are black, white or blue; whether they are male or female; old or young - innocent civilians should be able to live peaceful lives without having to fear for their lives, livelihoods, homes, families, and how to put food on the table.



Ummu Sufyaan, of course I don't hate Muslims. Anybody who knows me even just a little bit knows that.

I simply speak out against people who forcefully deny others the right to live peaceful lives by instilling fear and terror, by causing harm and by killing people indiscriminately.
Sometimes those people are Muslims, and sometimes they are not. Whoever they are, they are in the wrong and should be stopped!

Originally Posted by glo

I absolutely abhor any kind of warfare, which causes suffering and fear and pain and death to innocent civilians! Full stop!

It is good for you to have this kind of view.
Unfortunately, Christians establishments (conservatives, christians right, evangelists, catholic churches, etc) SUPPORT or at least do NOT oppose western invasions and occupations of Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Iran to follow).

TALK is indeed CHEAP.

yeah im not with "collateral damage" no matter who does it.

Originally Posted by naidamar

It is good for you to have this kind of view.
Unfortunately, Christians establishments (conservatives, christians right, evangelists, catholic churches, etc) SUPPORT or at least do NOT oppose western invasions and occupations of Muslim countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, and Iran to follow).

TALK is indeed CHEAP.

I agree, naidamar, that not enough establishments speak out against those wars.
Unfortunately I cannot speak for other Christians - I can only speak for myself.
However it would be wrong to give the impression that there are no Christian groups who are against it (the way you worded your sentence gives that impression)

See for yourself:

Thousands of Christians braved frigid temperatures, icy conditions and on 16 March 2007 to protest in Washington DC against the Iraq war - with some 200 facing arrest.
[...]
Evangelical, Catholic, mainline Protestant, Pentecostal and other Christian groups opposed to the war - including the Baptist Peace Fellowship of North America - helped organize the protest. Its organizers called "for an end to the US occupation, real support for our troops, a total rejection of torture and an international commitment to the physical and human reconstruction that is so desperately needed in Iraq."

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/4896

The Iraq war is an unjust war and an evil war. We did not have the right before God to destroy Saddam Hussein and kill his people just because we suspected he might eventually attack the U.S

http://pastorsb.com/Iraqwar.htm

The Bush Administration asserts that there is a compelling moral case for a preemptive war against Iraq. Yet over 100 leading Christian ethicists in America disagree. These ethicists have signed a statement expressing their view that no such compelling case has been made.

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action...ists_statement

A majority of British Christians think the government should set a timetable for the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, a poll has suggested.
[...]
Archbishop Rowan Williams launched his own attack on the government over its involvement in the Iraq war earlier this month.
[...]
Saturday saw the latest protest march in London against the war in Afghanistan. Among those attending was Peter Brierley, the father of a dead soldier.

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/forei...--$1336306.htm


I am sure I can find plenty more, if you would like me to.
There are people who speak out - and I believe they are growing in numbers.

May we all learn to speak out against injustice and inhumane treatment of those in need and suffering!

The latest cowardly atrocity..... sorry, heroic battle fought by the noble Taliban to defend their lands, and honour of their wives and daughters. Cough... I'd laugh if it wasn't so desperately sad. Thieves and murderers with BS excuses.

UK medic Karen Woo named as Afghanistan shooting victim

Originally Posted by Trumble

The latest cowardly atrocity..... sorry, heroic battle fought by the noble Taliban to defend their lands, and honour of their wives and daughters. Cough... I'd laugh if it wasn't so desperately sad. Thieves and murderers with BS excuses.

UK medic Karen Woo named as Afghanistan shooting victim

Its a pity that we dont know the names of the Afghans that get killed by drone bombings.

Originally Posted by Zafran

Its a pity that we dont know the names of the Afghans that get killed by drone bombings.

The reason because when the Drone drops bombs on innocent men, women and children, the martyrs are too many in numbers, that it might make the Occupational Regimes, even more unpopular in the eyes of the World.


Btw the Article says...

Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid claimed the group were found in possession of bibles translated into Dari and had been killed because they were Christian Missionaries.


Well this sounds so familiar, for this has NOT happened the 1st time!


If we closely examine the Evangelical Christian Groups in the Muslim World, the Christian Fundamentalism, has become more than a "religious" mission, rather it has become a tool for the occupational Forces to establish their Rule over Foreign, specially Muslim lands...

According to Yogindar Sikand, an analyst from India:

As is widely believed, many evangelical groups working in the ‘Third World’ are simply fronts for Western agencies and governments, helping to promote their vested interests and strategic goals. This is most readily apparent from the cozy relationship between Christian fundamentalists and the current Bush administration. Right-wing American Christian groups are known to be sources of immense financial support to Israel. They are also vociferous backers of America’s imperialist designs on the Muslim world, seeing these as a divinely mandated crusade against the forces of ‘evil’. These Christian groups also served to promote American interests abroad. Several of them received generous funding from far-right American government lobbies, CIA front organizations, American big business and right-wing think tanks. Many missionaries were appointed as sources of vital information for the CIA, and were used to bolster American hegemony by indoctrination and spreading American propaganda.


Yoginder Sikand, “The Evangelical Challenge: A New Face of Western Imperialism,” The Evangelical Challenge, March 15, 2005. http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display



It is a fact, that when Americans and their Allies NATO attacked Afghanistan, one of the Reasons was that they could see an Islamic State with Quran as the Constitution being implemented, which would show the Blessings inherent in the Shariah (Islamic Law) teachings, and also it could be that such Blessed Rule, might get exported to the neighboring Muslim region thus bringing down the Puppet Muslim Regimes, being supported by the Crusading West. They could not risk such and had to step in the Region and stop it some how....Drugs and Pipe Lines are other factors... and destabilizing the Muslim COuntries was also one, for Israel to become the New Middle East power etc..


So The West uses the Garb of "Religion" and "peaceful Missionaries" to attracts as many followers as possible, so that their mission of Occupation becomes easy....

What? That does not justify the attack. Of Course they would have bibles, they are Christians! Did the Taliban have any other proof (that they were trying to convert people) apart from bibles which they could have read during their spare time? I mean would you agree if a Christians were to kill people from Islamic relief because they had the Quran?

It isn’t hard to believe that Muslims from Islamic relief are there to help rather than convert people (like Haiti) but if it was a Christian, they are apparently there to convert people not help. The Taliban had no real proof apart from “bibles”, there is no real justification for this attack in particular. I am appalled at anyone that tries to justify it.

People can disagree with the war but sure doesn’t mean they have to support the Taliban.

Yvonne Ridley, a Former Christian reverted towards Islam, AFTER she was released from being captured by Taliban...not only because Islam is the Truth but also because Taliban treated her with Much Respect.... and she was impressed by the Way they treat women, exactly OPPOSITE of what Western Media says about them....

Please watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0Yi...eature=related


Enjoy

That still does not justify the attack and other atrocities that Taliban themselves have admitted to. These people were unarmed, they could or should have kept them hostage. One woman vs how many Afghanis?

Again being against the war in Afghanistan does not mean you have to support the Taliban.

They come into a warzone in the guise of helping and take advantage of the destitute and desperate to spread their religion while their countrymen occupy and kill innocent people and they expect to be shown mercy? What despicable people. What vultures these missionaries are.
*in reference to those 8? people killed recently.

Any proof that they were missionaries and also the fact that they were working there for years, decades as the man claims means nothing. All of the sudden they are trying to convert people and should be killed. Why now? Any proof apart what the Taliban said?

I find ironic that when Taliban is presented in bad light by the media, its all made up etc (which I kind of accept) but when the Taliban themselves say something it is the truth, nothing but the truth.
I am going to say what I say to the western media where is the proof that these people were there to convert people? Where is the photo of the bibles?


I wonder what people would say if Muslims helpers were to be killed by Christians in Christian country.

Originally Posted by sweet106

What? That does not justify the attack. Of Course they would have bibles, they are Christians! Did the Taliban have any other proof (that they were trying to convert people) apart from bibles which they could have read during their spare time? I mean would you agree if a Christians were to kill people from Islamic relief because they had the Quran?

It isn’t hard to believe that Muslims from Islamic relief are there to help rather than convert people (like Haiti) but if it was a Christian, they are apparently there to convert people not help. The Taliban had no real proof apart from “bibles”, there is no real justification for this attack in particular. I am appalled at anyone that tries to justify it.

People can disagree with the war but sure doesn’t mean they have to support the Taliban.

1st of all i don't know what happened at that shooting spot. Niether were you there, niether was i ... and surely the Western Media known to spread Anti Islamic propaganda is NOT whom i trust. The only reason why i posted the above was, to show... yes there has been links between the Christian Missionaries and Western Occupational Regimes. God knows best whether they fired at them 1st or the Missionaries were trying to run away from them or something else.


We need to understand One thing here, Government In Kabul was Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, it was established by the Taliban. The Americans and Nato came and invaded and established a Puppet Regime, which is NOT supported by people, and it should not be hard to figure that out because President of Afghanistan Hamid Karzai is more like Mayor of Kabul... because he has no Writ outside Kabul , and Afghanistan is in control of Taliban and NOT in control of the Puppet Regime. He does not even step out of Kabul , and cannot enter most Areas of Afghanistan, then how is he even considered a President of Afghan ? Yes only because Western Media propagates such... thats why...


So what are the Rules of Taliban, when it was their government, what is their Law and how do they treat such People ? Has it happened before and if it did , then what did Taliban do ?


The Taliban had many times, caught the Missionaries working in Afghanistan and trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, under the Garb of "Aid"... under the Law of Taliban, the Missionaries were warned several times, not to preach stuff like Jesus is the Son of God and Muhammad (saw) was a False Prophet.... May we Seek refuge in Allah (swt) from saying such words and teachings our Kids that Allah has a 'son'.... and so it was August 2001...

the Taliban government in Afghanistan arrested two members of Antioch Community Church: Dayna Curry and Heather Mercer. Curry and Mercer came to Kabul with Shelter For Life, a Christian missionary and relief organization that works in Afghanistan, Angola, Burundi, Honduras, Iran, Iraq, India, Kosovo, Macedonia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Western Sahara. The Taliban were the only one who accused Curry and Mercer of proselytizing, a crime during its regime in Afghanistan.

The Taliban let them go, and they were welcomed back inside America, and President Bush at that time gave a Speech in their honor at the White House Lawn. Their coming back , after being under arrest by the "Evil" Taliban helped the already busy Western Media doing Campaign against the Taliban ....

"They had a calling to serve the poorest of the poor" President Bush said at a White House ceremony shortly after the Hollywood-style rescue of Curry and Mercer. "Their faith was a source of hope that kept them from being discouraged."

But Curry and Mercer were doing more than relief work. Once home, they admitted to violating Afghan law by showing part of a Jesus Film. On top of that, such Missionaries are used as cover to create more agents of the West who can penetrate in to Muslim world and so it can help the Occupational Regimes in their ability to stop the growth of Islam and Muslims....


The Increase of Drug trade in Afghanistan, which is affecting the entire Region and is increasing Drug Addicts in the Muslim World, plus illegal arms Trade which is fueling the fire of Conflict in the Region and Agenda to extract Minerals from Afghanistan and make Gas pipelines and oil pipelines.... PLUS Missionaries doing their Job to help them achieve all of that should answer Sister Sweet , its more than just "converting"...