Fightanddie Lug lug wadarega , daga kafir che u LarGai whukhala , Thaga kafir kwuana ke wewachawa. Bya they boid peige che wale meikh till khar dee.

Muezzin, it doesn’t really look like it is just allegations “During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity”

Muezzin you really confuse me with your statement “I say abide by the laws of the land, even if one does not agree with them”.

Think about that for a moment. Folks, like me, come to this web-site to try and get a better view of what Islam is about. Time and time again when the excesses of some who claim to be Muslim are pointed out, we are told that those folks aren’t really practicing Islam as it should practiced.

Here we have an example of the most un-Islamic law and you just answer with “I say abide by the laws of the land, even if one does not agree with them”.

So this judge should just follow an unjust law and have this fellow executed????????

We should ALL be disgusted by laws such as the one this fellow was arrested for breaking.

Mahdisoldier, there were bad things that happened during the Spanish Inquisition. There were bad things that happened during the Crusades. There were bad things that America did to the native Indians and the African slaves. There were bad things that happened during the Holocaust. There were many abuses of the Chinese people done by Japanese during WWII.

NONE of that excuses what is happening to the man in the article.

Mahdisoldier “Whats sad is you people who think he is 100 percent going to be executed”.
No what is sad is that the fellow was arrested in the first place.

Muezzen this type of thing SHOULD stir up trouble. It should stir the outrage in people till maybe there is enough out cry to bring such laws to an end.

Cheb can you back up your statement with scripture? Show me where Jesus taught such thing or even where the Apostles taught such a thing?

Salam what is sick is that this man is being threatened with his very life if he doesn’t convert back to a belief he no longer claims as his faith.

This is a little more complete copy of the news item.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...orld-headlines

Afghan Christian Could Get Death Sentence
By DANIEL COONEY Associated Press Writer
March 19, 2006, 6:48 PM EST

KABUL, Afghanistan -- An Afghan man is being prosecuted in a Kabul court and could be sentenced to death on a charge of converting from Islam to Christianity, a crime under this country's Islamic laws, a judge said Sunday.

The trial is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take here four years after the ouster of the Islamic fundamentalist Taliban regime.
The defendant, 41-yer-old Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada told The Associated Press in an interview. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam and his trial started Thursday.

During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said.

"We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law," the judge said. "It is an attack on Islam."

Mawlavezada said he would rule on the case within two months.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on Shariah law, which is interpreted by many Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death, said Ahmad Fahim Hakim, deputy chairman of the state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

Repeated attempts to interview Rahman in detention were barred.

The prosecutor, Abdul Wasi, said he had offered to drop the charges if Rahman converted back to Islam, but he refused.

"He would have been forgiven if he changed back. But he said he was a Christian and would always remain one," Wasi told AP. "We are Muslims and becoming a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty."

After being an aid worker for four years in Pakistan, Rahman moved to Germany for nine years, his father, Abdul Manan, said outside his Kabul home.

Rahman returned to Afghanistan in 2002 and tried to gain custody of his two daughters, now aged 13 and 14, who had been living with their grandparents their whole lives, the father said. A custody battle ensued and the matter was taken to the police.

During questioning, it emerged that Rahman was a Christian and was carrying a Bible. He was immediately arrested and charged, the father said.

Afghanistan is a conservative Islamic country. Some 99 percent of its 28 million people are Muslim, and the remainder are mainly Hindu.

Thanks
Nimrod

Originally Posted by _salam_

See the thing is this man is choosing to go against the truth of Allah that should be imprinted on his heart. He isn't being punished for following Jesus (saws), all Muslim follow the teachings of Jesus (saws), cause he taught to worship The One God with out any partners. Instead this man has forsaked that and left the Truth of Allah and decided to worship a man instead, and that's just sick.

The issue is, would you have a man put to death because you think his Christian faith is sick?

How strong and secure is a faith that threatens converts with death?

Even Christ Himself offered would-be followers a choice, appealing to individual hearts and minds and allowing people to walk away if they chose.

My friend michael Since yoru religion is so peaceful why dont you look at what happen to the christians that converted to judaism during the middle ages? They didnt even get trials.!

Folks, I don’t know what to say.

I have studied the thread i_m_tipu linked in his post.

It seems that the law this fellow is being threatened with is Islamic.

I had assumed that when Islam teaches that there should be no compulsion in accepting a religion that there should be no compulsion in choosing a religion.

This fellow is being threatened with his very life if he doesn’t choose Islam instead of Christian.

I don’t know how it gets anymore compulsory for him than that.

It just leaves me saddly shaking my head.

Totally Confused
Nimrod

why dont you look at what happen to the christians that converted to judaism during the middle ages? They didnt even get trials.!

mahdi,
what does that have to do with a case in 2006? Quit using the crusades and the middle ages as a rebuttal for people's willful actions of today. By doing so you seem to imply that islam should be judged in that context, or by that age. If that was the case, you wouldn't last long in the west, would you?

Actually Christians did have it in their belief that any converts from Christianity should be executed. Christianity has been changed in order to suit people like many on this forum. We do not hide anything. We have our reasons and you can reject or accept them, they are OUR laws.

"This fellow is being threatened with his very life if he doesn’t choose Islam instead of Christian.

I don’t know how it gets anymore compulsory for him than that." - nimrod

If you think it works both ways it does not. There is no compulsion for non-Muslims to become Muslim. But it is not the other way round. But if you read my post above it is not as simple as: you changed from Islam, therefore you shall die!!

Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19

my friend when muslims were living in jerusalem during the Crusade, J/c what happen to them? I think the crusaders used crimes that made nature shudder against the helpless muslims.

Dragging up ancient history just invites unfortunate comparison - most non-muslims consider this sort of trial to be a medieval relic, and by implication view Islam itself to be likewise. What is relevant is what is happening in 2006, not 1206.

I'm amazed to see the "law is the law" guff.... what rubbish! It's a BAD law; why should somebody not be free to follow their heart as far as religion is concerned? Even muslims should have the balls (forgive the expression, any ladies reading) to stand up and defend their religion from ridicule by saying so. Many thousands convert from Christianity to Islam in both Europe and the United States every year; none are tried, let alone for their lives.

Originally Posted by Michael Samuel

The issue is, would you have a man put to death because you think his Christian faith is sick?

No, and the issue is not that the man decided to become a Christian out of all other religions, the issue has to do with the man leaving Islam in general.

Even Christ Himself offered would-be followers a choice, appealing to individual hearts and minds and allowing people to walk away if they chose.

I'm not saying what you stated is wrong, but, would you like to provide some proof for what you said.

I think everybody needs to read the following explaination previously posted by Brother Khattab;

Answered by Sheikh `Abd al-Rahm?n b. Zayd al-Zunayd?, propfessor at al-Im?m Islamic University, Riyadh



In Islam, religious conviction is seen as a personal decision based upon free choice. There in no value for an outward expression of faith from someone who inwardly is wholly convinced of unbelief. Therefore, there can be no compulsion in religion. This is why the People of the Book living in the Islamic state are not required to embrace Islam. Rather, their rights are guaranteed to them and they are allowed to live in peace and security within the Islamic state and to maintain their distinctiveness from the Muslim majority.



With respect to the issue of apostasy, we must understand that within the context of the Muslim society, Islam is not merely a philosophy of life or a temporary set of policies. It is the choice of the society as a whole to be the social contract underpinning their society. If someone leaves Islam after embracing it, he becomes by his action an aggressor against Islam who publicly discredits it, thereby committing a crime against society as a whole. This is a strategy that is generally employed by the enemies of Islam and by those who wish to bring harm to it.



Allah describes this behaviour in the Qur?an: ?And a party of the People of the Scripture say: Believe in that which hath been revealed unto those who believe at the opening of the day, and disbelieve at the end thereof, in order that they may turn back.? [S?rah ?l `Imr?n: 72]



Apostasy is a crime in the context of the Islamic state. It is essentially an aggression against the state and an act of treachery. This is why the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: ?The blood of a Muslim is not made lawful except for one of three things: retribution for murder, adultery, and the one who abandons his faith and separates from the community.? [Sah?h al-Bukh?r? (6878) and S?hih Muslim (1676)]



This hadith establishes the ruling of capital punishment for apostasy. We can see that it also clearly links the crime of abandoning the faith with separation from the community. It is the treasonous aspect of apostasy that makes it warrant such a punishment.



For this reason, a person in the Islamic state who leaves Islam will not be punished unless he publicly proclaims his apostasy and then calls others to do so. The hypocrites of Madinah were well-known. They were unbelievers who did not publicly proclaim their unbelief. They used to live in the company of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his Companions, even though their unbelief was known to the Prophet (peace be upon him). The unbelief of many of the hypocrites was also known by the Companions, on account of the inevitable slips of the tongue the hypocrites would make and many of the stances the hypocrites would take. However, none of these hypocrites was ever punished for such things. Their unbelief was tolerated.



And Allah knows best

So, the issue is whether or not the man publically displayed his forsaking the Truth of Allah, and not the fact that he merely decided to stop believing or practicing Islam.

Those who abandon and leave Islam and enter into kufr (disbelief) SHOULD be executed in public.

Peace

Originally Posted by Fight&Die4Allah

What the….I just happened to be browsing this thread and I saw my username and was like where did this come from? What do u mean my threads could be classed the same? could u elaborate? what do u have a problem with?…what I post in this section is from news websites, I don’t write the articles so what do u exactly mean by saying that. I bring the truth if you don’t like it, don’t read it…and if you can’t handle my threads I suggest you stay out of them then! Simple as that…if you can’t handle this forum, then leave. I’ll post what I like as long as they comply with the rules; just because you or anyone else don’t agree with it doesn’t mean I should stop posting them..

I agree. I don't think it's a good idea to get other members into the discussion topic, especially when they aren't present.

Originally Posted by nimrod

Muezzin, it doesn’t really look like it is just allegations “During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity”

My apologies.

Muezzin you really confuse me with your statement “I say abide by the laws of the land, even if one does not agree with them”.

Think about that for a moment. Folks, like me, come to this web-site to try and get a better view of what Islam is about. Time and time again when the excesses of some who claim to be Muslim are pointed out, we are told that those folks aren’t really practicing Islam as it should practiced.

Here we have an example of the most un-Islamic law and you just answer with “I say abide by the laws of the land, even if one does not agree with them”.

Bear in mind that is my personal view, which I am entitled to, and which I have reasons for holding, and which do not represent the majority opinion of Muslims.

So this judge should just follow an unjust law and have this fellow executed????????

Yes. In the English legal system for example the rule of law dictates that so long as an Act is properly passed, judges must enforce it, despite the potential for unjust laws. It's a moral dilemma. I don't agree with the law in question, don't get the wrong idea. I don't agree with killing someone for their faith. I'm saying that if the law of the land is unjust, no amount of outrage (in isolation) will change things. Outrage which then leads to change, through the proper channels, is good.

If I was living in a country I considered to have unjust laws that I could not comply with, I'd move out at the first opportunity. If that was not an option, I'd try to bring about change.

We should ALL be disgusted by laws such as the one this fellow was arrested for breaking.

I don't disagree. I still stand by my statement of abiding by the law, but that's probably because I'm studying law.

Muezzen this type of thing SHOULD stir up trouble. It should stir the outrage in people till maybe there is enough out cry to bring such laws to an end.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19

My friend michael Since yoru religion is so peaceful why dont you look at what happen to the christians that converted to judaism during the middle ages? They didnt even get trials.!

Actually they probably did. But since when does crimes committed 1000 years ago justify bad things now?

Originally Posted by moujahid

Those who abandon and leave Islam and enter into kufr (disbelief) SHOULD be executed in public.

Why?

I mean, at the time Muhammed lived, Islam was the basis of government. It is not any more. Will this man cease to be a loyal Afghan subject if he converts? Will he work less hard? Will he pay fewer taxes? Will he stop speaking Dari or Pashtun or whatever? It seems an act that has precisely no consequences to anyone but him to me.

Originally Posted by HeiGou

Why?

I mean, at the time Muhammed lived, Islam was the basis of government. It is not any more. Will this man cease to be a loyal Afghan subject if he converts? Will he work less hard? Will he pay fewer taxes? Will he stop speaking Dari or Pashtun or whatever? It seems an act that has precisely no consequences to anyone but him to me.

True. Killing anyone who dares to leave Islam doesn't exactly make Islam look like a peaceful religion to outsiders.

But the rule of law's such a... female dog sometimes.