thats coz im invisible

so when did this fan club start and how come i didnt have a clue about it

Originally Posted by HeiGou

I am not sure that is fair - it takes courage to stand up especially these days when people who say things like that have to live under police protection. No doubt if she writes a book she will make lots of money. I think that is the attitude she is crticising too. But I agree it is a mistake to say she is in any way a moderate Muslim. I am interested as to why you think there are no moderate Muslims - only pious ones and secular ones.

well before i answer this question, what do you classify a moderate muslim? just in case we have different ideas?

I don't think she was attacking his religion so much as the attitudes that his interpretation of his religion have produced. Someone did attack her. You have too. Both you and the good Doctor have said she is not a Muslim and is doomed.

she herself said shes not a muslim....

Originally Posted by amani

well before i answer this question, what do you classify a moderate muslim? just in case we have different ideas?

she herself said shes not a muslim....

I think that a moderate Muslim is the Muslim equivalent of a Sunday Christian. A Friday Muslim if you like. Someone who does not take their religion too seriously and thinks it needs to be updated with the time and kept modern. Or more accurately thinks that a Western and/or Modern influence would be a good thing. Perhaps someone who is happy with being a Muslim but doesn't think about it very much?

But as I said, I don't think they really exist. Muslims seem to me to be either Observant (to varying degrees) or Secular if not atheist. There does not seem to be a big group in between.

This woman is clearly not a moderate Muslim but a secularist.

the fan club was offically started by Hei Gou today, but existed in the hearts of islam-truth and myself long ago.

Originally Posted by HeiGou

I think that a moderate Muslim is the Muslim equivalent of a Sunday Christian. A Friday Muslim if you like. Someone who does not take their religion too seriously and thinks it needs to be updated with the time and kept modern. Or more accurately thinks that a Western and/or Modern influence would be a good thing. Perhaps someone who is happy with being a Muslim but doesn't think about it very much?

But as I said, I don't think they really exist. Muslims seem to me to be either Observant (to varying degrees) or Secular if not atheist. There does not seem to be a big group in between.

This woman is clearly not a moderate Muslim but a secularist.

nope being a friday muslim doesnt work
islam is a whole way of life not left only for the holy day..but im sure you know this already

modernity is not always bad...nor is western. it again depends what you mean. if you mean western values *feedom* etc then thats a total different matter

Originally Posted by amani

nope being a friday muslim doesnt work
islam is a whole way of life not left only for the holy day..but im sure you know this already

Well yes, but the vast majority of Muslims, from what I can see, do seem happy enough without living the entire way of life. After all it is the way that the vast majority of Muslims have lived for the last 1400 years. It is theoretically inane and unjustifiable, but it is what people do.

modernity is not always bad...nor is western. it again depends what you mean. if you mean western values *feedom* etc then thats a total different matter

Freedom? Hmm. Surely if Islam has said something on an issue there is no question of any modernity or Western values?

again would would you classify as modernity?

theres no modern islam

but there is modernity in the sense of technology society etc.

so things like this does go well with islam. take the internet for example....electricity. isnt this *modern* tech..this is what i mean...el

Originally Posted by HeiGou

Well you're more than a celevritym you are a legend! Even in threads you do not start we all can't help thinking about you (in an entirely positive way of course). Myself I am President of the Fight&Die4Allah fan club. In fact we are starting to verge on cyber-stalking. It is a little long to type out all the time - would F&D4A do?

peace,

now your taking the piss....

Originally Posted by amani

again would would you classify as modernity?

theres no modern islam

but there is modernity in the sense of technology society etc.

so things like this does go well with islam. take the internet for example....electricity. isnt this *modern* tech..this is what i mean...el

Well I agree with that. But there are definite modern schools of thought too. Take kingship. Eurpean thought has rejected monarchy in favor of Republics and so the only places that remain Monarchies are those that have not had major political change recently. If they did, the monarchy would surely be abolished. And this goes back to 1789 in the West, although it has only been a strong trend since 1919. It is not surprising that in recent times Muslims have also found that monarchy is un-Islamic and so there has been a strong trend towards "Islamic Republicanism". Now maybe the two don't have any thing whatsoever to do with each other. Maybe it is the force of the modern world that works on all societies individually. But can you tell me any Muslim between the death of Ali and, say, 1800 who thought that monarchy was not Islamic?

Originally Posted by hamzaa

peace,

now your taking the piss....

lol

Moderate Muslims Speaking Out

Who? Where?

Originally Posted by amani

and by questioning the teachings of the Quran she is not a muslim and is cursed in this world and the hereafter

Hmm. Honest question here, not intended to be flamebait.

Can you elaborate as to how you see that to be the case? I would think that critically thinking about what is stated by Allah (SWT) would be a desired action, rather than haraam. God has given us minds to think and to reason with. Should we not use them to consider what we are told, and why it is so?

Please note, I'm interpreting "questioning" as "re-considering what is meant by X", rather than "doubting" or "rejecting." To clarify, I'm seeing the original statements by Sultan as an intention to go over the Holy Quran and consider its statements without the lens of traditional thought, as it were. If my interpretation is in error, and Sultan's statements were more along the lines of "Let's ignore what is said in the Quran", then clearly that's wrong.

Originally Posted by Knut Hamsun

Who? Where?

You're so eloquent.

look uh ...I feel sorry for her.I just don't take her seriously and her allegations.

Originally Posted by Abrar

look uh ...I feel sorry for her.I just don't take her seriously and her allegations.

Are you talking to me?