Originally Posted by KAding

3000 in 10 years.
Millions have died in Congo in the same timespan and that isn't even considered a genocide.
Syria killed 30,000 during the Hama massacre in one month.
Jordan killed 3000 pals during Black September, also in one month.

Sorry, by any objective measures Palestine is not a big war. I mean, in Nepal more people died in 10 years, and people hardly accepted it classifies as a civil war.

It might be unfair, but it not a major conflict, not now at least. Even the actual wars of 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 were fairly limited if one looks at the number of casualties, especially among Palestinians.

over 1 million in less than a year in Rwanda.

Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~

Excuse me, but the arguement for israel's right for that land does not make sense. How can you bring up that 'promised land' excuse when you are a secular state? And that land is also holy to Muslims!
So yes we have a right to live there!

There are already many Muslims in Jerusalem. And also many Muslims in Israel.

However, since you guys all want to destroy the state Israel they don't want to let more of you back in .

I don't know what your sources are, but i find it hard to believe that only 3000 people died in palestine in 10 years.

Originally Posted by KAding

There are already many Muslims in Jerusalem. And also many Muslims in Israel.

However, since you guys all want to destroy the state Israel they don't want to let more of you back in .

Call me anti-semetic (i'm semetic to oactually... why did they claim that word???), but it seems you guys are pillow fluffing the truth.
You have no idea what 'us guys' want. I want peace for the palestinians actually. But i've seen some gruesome stuff which makes it hard for me to sympathise for israelis.

If you guys really think the current situation is the worst Israel can do you are mistaken. They have a highly advanced army, if they wanted to they could level whole cities in WW2 style, killing half the population and making sure the other half flees to neighboring countries. A bit like Syria did at Hama.

They are not restrained by any Jihadist from doing this. What stops them is the West, their democratic nature and I suppose some morals.

It is always interesting that the worst massacre the Israelis supposedly commited, namely the one at Shaba and Shatilla were:
1. Not even commited by Israelis but by Christian militias
2. Sparked huge protest in Israel with hundreds of thousands marching in the streets. Resulting in a parliamentary inquiry which led to the resignation of the minister of defense.

Compare this to even larger massacres in the Muslim world commited by both Muslims and non-Muslims alike?

Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~

I don't know what your sources are, but i find it hard to believe that only 3000 people died in palestine in 10 years.

I had civilians casualties in mind. But lets take all casualties. Since 2000 the Palestinian Red Cresent puts the number of deaths at about 3,800. Other sources, like B'tselem appear to have a figure in the low 3000's. An additional 260 or so have died in the period 1995-2000, before the start of the second intifada.

So about 4000 in total in the worst case, which also includes combatants and possibly even casualties from Palestinian infighting.

How many do you think died? And what are your sources?

Originally Posted by KAding

I had civilians casualties in mind. But lets take all casualties. Since 2000 the Palestinian Red Cresent puts the number of deaths at about 3,800. Other sources, like B'tselem appear to have a figure in the low 3000's. An additional 260 or so have died in the period 1995-2000, before the start of the second intifada.

So about 4000 in total in the worst case, which also includes combatants and possibly even casualties from Palestinian infighting.

Wow good to know. How some people explain it this conflict has been a bloodletting.

Originally Posted by knuckles

Wow good to know. How some people explain it this conflict has been a bloodletting.

It is strange how some conflicts receive so much more attention than others. I mean, look at the wikipedia pages on this conflict and compare it to what they have about other more bloody wars and civil wars across the globe? It's even more obvious in the press, both Western and Muslim apparently.

Why do Muslims have such a strong focus on Israel and not, say, Chechnya? I think it could be linked to the level of press freedom in the occupied territories. If I am not mistaken Russia simply keep out any press, making it hard to report on events. The same can be seen in Iraq, initially there were hundreds of Western journalists in the country. But once the kidnappings and beheadings started they largely left. You can see this very well in especially European countries, which have less of a stake in Iraq. The number of reports on Iraq simply plummeted both on TV and in the newspapers.

Originally Posted by KAding

It is strange how some conflicts receive so much more attention than others. I mean, look at the wikipedia pages on this conflict and compare it to what they have about other more bloody wars and civil wars across the globe? It's even more obvious in the press, both Western and Muslim apparently.

Why do Muslims have such a strong focus on Israel and not, say, Chechnya? I think it could be linked to the level of press freedom in the occupied territories. If I am not mistaken Russia simply keep out any press, making it hard to report on events. The same can be seen in Iraq, initially there were hundreds of Western journalists in the country. But once the kidnappings and beheadings started they largely left. You can see this very well in especially European countries, which have less of a stake in Iraq. The number of reports on Iraq simply plummeted both on TV and in the newspapers.

I have to admit I was caught up in it too because I thought the numbers at a minimum was double that.

Well will just see what happens to israel in 10 years... right now we need to help the palestinian as much as we can..

Originally Posted by Zzims

Well will just see what happens to israel in 10 years... right now we need to help the palestinian as much as we can..

Im 10 years Israel will be right where it is. You'd have to take down the US to be rid of Israel

Originally Posted by knuckles

I've posted proof on that ad nauseum. A few posters have. I'm not gonna get dragged back into that considering it's off topic. You wanna discuss it start a new thread.

then obviously you've overlooked the tons of proof which show it wasn't him including plain common sense.

Wow, knuckles was banned. How comes?

Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~

Wow, knuckles was banned. How comes?

yeah-how come?

That's a pity. I liked picking on him!