Originally Posted by HeiGou

As far as I can see, the difference between us is I think something ought to be done to stop terrorists killing people. You think something ought to be done to stop Israelis killing people.

well if you accepted that israelis are terrorists then we'd have the same views..?

For those just joing us, this thread isn't about Israel.

Hei Gou,

With due respect, i know how u feel about possibly being a victim of any suicide bombers or any terrorists! Me too! And I also know how does it feels like if I'm going to be manhandled by the police as in the case of Babar Ahmad. It's not so difficult to feel how they feels, just pretend that you are facing the same predicament. As far as your statistics goes, feel free to tell your rhetoric to the family of De Menezes, the brazilian shot dead in the head just bcoz some police feels that he is a potential `threat' to the society. I do believe that they will staring with disbelief or perhaps in total rage on your logical statistical conclusions!

That's your problem dude! In one hand you could actually feel the potential pain of being a victim of the suicide bomber (or terrorists), and in the other hand, u could not even grasps the meaning of the potential pain of merely being a suspect of the police force through interrogation, physical and psychological assault.

Where is the morality of accusing and treating somebody as being guilty, just through mere suspicion only? If you so happened to be one of the victim, would u presents flowers and accolades to the police force for `doing up' their job? Would you?

He accepts the Israeli government is a terrorist regime sis, or at least that's what I think he told me a while ago.
Well as for you HeiGou, i never said nothing should be done. If he actually was supporting 'terrorists' (which I don't believe he was.... which is why this makes me so UPSET), then... wait I don't even agree with the terminology the West use. 'enemy combatant', 'terrorists', 'moderates', 'extraordinary rendition'. These are all terms that narrow people's thoughts. But getting back on topic, if someone was caught trying to blow up Oxford Street, trust me, i wouldn't say anything if you locked them up and threw away the key. I will never accept the amount of power the police have been given with these new anti-terror laws. You speak of protecting kaafirs, what about us Muslims? Aren't we human too?

Not to take sides or anything, but exactly when did this thread become 'Interrogate Hei Gou'?

I agree that something must be done to prevent terrorism. I also think that great care must be taken, so that things are not rushed into, and so that there is not a repeat of the Demenezes cock-up. I was really angry at the police then, and am still angry when people say 'But he could have been a terrorist' - the fact remains, he was not. He was an illegal immigrant, yes, but Britain doesn't have a shoot-to-kill policy for those people, does it?

I'm not saying do nothing though. I'm saying it's bad in any criminal investigation when innocent people get locked up, just as it's bad in war when civilians are killed.

Note the preceding sentence was drafted in extremely general terms, so any interpretations that members have will be simply a reflection of their own psyche.

Or something.

Happy posting.

They shouldn't have a shoot-to-kill policy at all. That's so barabric.
And HeiGou can handle the heat, trust me.

Originally Posted by ~Mu'MiNaH~

They shouldn't have a shoot-to-kill policy at all. That's so barabric.

You know, the cynic in me says 'hey, psychos calling themselves Muslims and strapping bombs to themselves are pretty barbaric too'.

And HeiGou can handle the heat, trust me.

The moderator in me says you're getting close to 'beefing' (posting to insult etc) now.

Me? Insult HeiGou? Never! And i'm not even being sarcastic. I would never intentionally insult HeiGou. I owe him anyway. He's stuck up for me in the past.

Originally Posted by Muezzin

The moderator in me says you're getting close to 'beefing' (posting to insult etc) now.

Well it is not for me to contradict the Moderators or even argue with them. But I do not feel "beefed". I think people's questions are reasonable. I have given out more than I should have in this thread and I do not feel threatened or insulted. I like and respect pretty much everyone in this thread (as much as I might deplore their choice of signature!) and would hate for anyone to get a warning for anything I was involved in.

And I do think Israel's actions often amount to State terrorism. I agree the police should not shoot illegal immigrants. But I can see how geared up they probably were and how easily that slipped over into stupid and unjust violence. The worst thing for me was that the police lied afterwards - I can't forgive that.

But in the end, something has to be done. Nothing I have seen so far impresses me that much, but it is something. If not this, what? I feel sorry for Mr Ahmad, but if he was buying chemical weapon suits, he should not be out on the streets. This needs to be examined by a court of law and soon.

He never did any of that. That's what i'm trying to tell you!

And what's wrong with my sig? Look at what it says... the weapon of TRUTH.

Yo stop stirring this argument out of control, this is a somewhat constructed debate InshAllah I hope Heigou dont think otherwise and its not very nice undermining the brothers, no-one's going to post abuse hopefully, we are all civilised beings ...i hope laugh out loud, InshAllah maintain mutual respect and continue Peace! x

True sis. I do have respect for HeiGou. I think he knows that (hope so).
And Muezzin, nanananana... see, told you i wasn't beefing!

InshAllah...if there is certain tention it would be beneficial for forum users if the somewhat rift between u fellow beings be sorted out via the personal messaging system JazakAllah Khairun, resume back on topic! Peace! x

Originally Posted by Syed Nizam

As far as your statistics goes, feel free to tell your rhetoric to the family of De Menezes, the brazilian shot dead in the head just bcoz some police feels that he is a potential `threat' to the society. I do believe that they will staring with disbelief or perhaps in total rage on your logical statistical conclusions!

If they do, they should perhaps consider the actions of the police in their own country.

Four unarmed young men were shot dead in the community of Borel in Rio de Janeiro during an operation carried out by military police on the afternoon of 16 April. They were Carlos Magno de Oliveira Nascimento (pictured), a student who was in Rio to visit relatives; Everson Gonçalves Silote, a taxi driver; Thiago da Costa Correia da Silva, a mechanic, and Carlos Alberto da Silva Pereira, a painter and builder. Although the precise circumstances that led to the death of the four men are not clear, all the technical evidence and testimony so far indicate that they were summarily executed.

The mother of Carlos Magno de Oliveira Nascimento visited AI in August for the launch of AI's report to mark the 10th anniversaries of the Candelária and Vigário Geral massacres in which eight street children and 21 shanty town residents, all unarmed, were killed by military police.

AI is extremely concerned at the very high levels of police killings in Rio de Janeiro in 2003 and that recent public statements made by politicians in defence of killing criminals appear to have been taken as a "green light" to kill by members of the city’s police forces.

Amnesty International


The De Menezes death was a terrible accident, that may or may not have involved incompetence on the part of officers involved. But it was not a "summary execution", or anything like one.