Oli for food program I am not sure if you heard of it. But U.N. AKA United States of America has been stealing iraqi oli because saddam did listen to U.N. demands. There were many sanctions on Iraq.

Lets see America get same or atleast similar punishment from the United Nations.

Originally Posted by Islamicboy

When america went to iraq they were defending themselves interesting. Liberal government wouldnt have went into iraq or backed israel aggression agianst Lebanon.

First off I was speaking about Afghanistan as the poster before was talking about.

Second of all, under Liberal goverment you are correct to assume that the Iraq invasion would not have occured. But your naive to think that under a liberal goverment Israel's attempt to dismarm Hezbollah would have not gotten support. (By the way if you support UN commands then you should also respect UN resolution 1559)

You should look at the vote in Congress. Only 7 congressmen opposed Israels action in the vote.

Originally Posted by Islamicboy

When america went to iraq they were defending themselves interesting. Liberal government wouldnt have went into iraq or backed israel aggression agianst Lebanon.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Democrats have a tendency to send troops into every little skirmish on the planet. With the ghost of 9-11 on everyone's back in the US government, I wouldn't look for love and friendship messages from the White House anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Woodrow

I am always a bit suspicious about anything that that may be seen as promoting Nationalism of any form. Our first Alligence should be to Allah(swt). I can not understand the views of a country that is Majority Muslim to embrace the flying of a secular flag. I do not believe the people are shy to fly the flag, I tend to believe that they see it as an attempt to place the Government above Allah(swt)

When I attended Constitutional Law classes, many Islamist students were upset when we've learnt that.......in accordance of our Federal Constitution....
...FEDERAL CONSTITUTION IS THE HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND (MALAYSIA) AND NO LAWS SHOULD BE HIGHER THAN IT"

They've said that this amounted to 'shirk'. Furthermore I dont find any words of "Allah" or "God" in the Federal constitution.

Originally Posted by north_malaysian

When I attended Constitutional Law classes, many Islamist students were upset when we've learnt that.......in accordance of our Federal Constitution....
...FEDERAL CONSTITUTION IS THE HIGHEST LAW OF THE LAND (MALAYSIA) AND NO LAWS SHOULD BE HIGHER THAN IT"

They've said that this amounted to 'shirk'. Furthermore I dont find any words of "Allah" or "God" in the Federal constitution.

So Malaysia seperates religion and goverment. Is that such a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Keltoi

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Democrats have a tendency to send troops into every little skirmish on the planet. With the ghost of 9-11 on everyone's back in the US government, I wouldn't look for love and friendship messages from the White House anytime soon.

The government expect to kill iraqis and afgansitani civilians and see love for the americans from them. Ofcourse Iraqis and Afganistanis will hate american and for sure this will lead to longer war.

Originally Posted by syilla

IMHO...

flying flags are just to remember how we have achieved freedom...thats all...

I put Allah above all...but i also love my country. It is just one big happy family. I'm not saying my country is perfect...but what is wrong in loving one imperfect country. If you don't support them...how they are going to improve into a better place for the muslims to live in...

I've seen beautiful small Malaysian and Penangite flags .... that I could tied them up in front of my house..... I'll buy it today....

Now that I have probably been guilty of being the cause of getting this thread side tracked. Let us briefly try to put this all into perspective and return to the topic.

I believe that although the topic was directed towards Malaysia, a side topic did come as an after thought that being. How much loyalty and respect should a person show towards the country they choose to live it. I believe nearly all of us are in agreement that we all need to abide to live by the laws of the country we choose to live in. That we do need to show minimal respect, as long as it is not contrary to our beliefs. That we do have a responsability to recognise any faults in our governments and to promote peacefull means to change any wrongs.

I can agree with syilla that the flag is merely recognision of gained freedoms and it does not have to be a replacement of Nationalism over religion.

So, to return this to topic. Is it possible to fly the flag with pride and not have it become a substitute for Allah(swt)

Originally Posted by Islamicboy

They expect to kill iraqis and afgansitani civilians and see love for the americans from them. Ofcourse Iraqis and Afganistanis will hate american and for sure this will lead to longer war.

Afghanistan is rather quiet compared to Iraq, except for the Taliban still prowling around in places near Pakistan and around Kandahar. Afghanistan has a chance to improve their lot tenfold in the near future, if the stability holds in Kabul and NATO and the U.S. keep the Taliban at bay as much as possible.

BACK ON TOPIC NOW

We shouldnt be discussing this in this thread. As we are off topic and been warned by Woodrow.

Originally Posted by Woodrow

Now that I have probably been guilty of being the cause of getting this thread side tracked. Let us briefly try to put this all into perspective and return to the topic.

I believe that although the topic was directed towards Malaysia, a side topic did come as an after thought that being. How much loyalty and respect should a person show towards the country they choose to live it. I believe nearly all of us are in agreement that we all need to abide to live by the laws of the country we choose to live in. That we do need to show minimal respect, as long as it is not contrary to our beliefs. That we do have a responsability to recognise any faults in our governments and to promote peacefull means to change any wrongs.

I can agree with syilla that the flag is merely recognision of gained freedoms and it does not have to be a replacement of Nationalism over religion.

So, to return this to topic. Is it possible to fly the flag with pride and not have it become a substitute for Allah(swt)

We just flying the flags..... not worshipping those flags..... it's my country 49th birthday.......

Originally Posted by north_malaysian

We just flying the flags..... not worshipping those flags..... it's my country 49th birthday.......

With much memories for your countries struggle to gain independance 49 years ago. It is good to remember the efforts it took your people to acheive that.

Originally Posted by north_malaysian

We just flying the flags..... not worshipping those flags..... it's my country 49th birthday.......

Congrats.

May your country have 49 more years of peace.

Originally Posted by Woodrow

With much memories for your countries struggle to gain independance 49 years ago. It is good to remember the efforts it took your people to acheive that.

Do you know how we gain independence....? we just sent a delegation consists of Malays, Chinese and Indians to England for a discussion for our independent .. AND GOT IT....

But lots of lives lost during Japanese Occupation and Communist rebellion.

Originally Posted by therebbe

Congrats.

May your country have 49 more years of peace.

Toda