British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery?

Isaac · **British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery?
10th August, 2006 Current Affairs

The Times links up with a British-born Jew who is fighting with the Israeli army:

At first sight Ben and his mates could be at a wedding party on the lawns of an hotel in his native Yorkshire.

Except that this hotel is a short drive from the Israel-Lebanon border and, despite his Leeds accent, Ben is an Israeli soldier. He is also cradling an Israeli-army issue Colt AR15 semi-automatic rifle stamped “Property of US Govt”.

Ben, 26, who arrived in Israel last year, is one of thousands of those serving in the Israeli military either as newly arrived citizens or on army programmes for Zionists who want to defend Israel while deciding whether to emigrate.

Earlier in the day he was ducking Hezbollah mortars in the Lebanese village of Adessa, just across the border. Now he sits chatting in two languages about two lives — as a would-be medical student in Britain and as an Israeli soldier known among his colleagues for his stamina and ability to carry a heavy machinegun over long distances.

No cries of treachery there! One wonders how it is that this whole debate on integration and allegiance never seems to include Jews. Orthodox Jews are one of the most insulated communities; their children can grow up having never seen people of a different faith. And now Jews are free to join the army of another country and engage in a conflict that has been condemned by much of the World. This is not new, and has been known for a while, yet no one seems to be doing anything about it.

Of course, had a Muslim Briton been found fighting with the Lebanese there would be no end of uproar. Some will say that Hizbullah is a proscribed group, whereas the Israeli Army is a recognised force; fair enough, but what if someone joined the Lebanese Army, would that be acceptable? Aside from this, many IDF soldiers partake in illegal activity on the Palestinian Occupied Territories; some of those are British. It is a question of being just; it is either acceptable for a Briton to hold allegiances elsewhere or it is not.

The point of me posting this article up, was based around would the western government allow britsih youg muslim men to fight in places such as afghanistan, iraq, lebanon. There are plenty of such people who originate from war zones and should be able t fight just like the british jews. To make my point i think it would cut down terrorism, if these young men were allowed to leave and go fight. this i personally hink is one of the things which lead them to teooeros attack - i.e double standards.

AvarAllahNoor · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

Lol, what about the hundreds that rush off to Afghanistan and Iraq to fight the British?

Trumble · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

I don't quite see your, or the author's, point. The British Army itself has many such foreign soldiers in its own ranks, such as the Nepalese Gurkhas and Fijians. There would be no "treachery" involved in fighting for any foreign army, providing that you are not fighting against Britain or its Allies. That would be the case in Afghanistan and Iraq, and hence there is no "double standard".

Hezbollah is still considered by Britain to be a terrorist organisation, so obviously a Briton fighting for them is likely to fall under serious suspicion, but there would still be no charge of "treason" as such. Any problems in joining the Lebanese army would probably be at the Lebanese end.

north_malaysian · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

No wonder, why Malaysia doesnt allowed her citizen to have dual nationality - LOYALTY...

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

yes they go and fight in places like afghhnaistan, but unlike the britsih or american jews they go iin seceret, less they are arrested and charges for terror. so let me put this question can an britsh msulim of lebanese origin fight againts israel - seeing that it is an allie of britain. im not talking about pronblems on the lebanese side, im talking going from here without being called a terrorisrt. i think these isseues need to be rooted out, because in my opinion it will not cut out the root of terror, but it will reduce its potential.

so its strange you say tehre is no double standards. tehse are the questions muslims should be asking, why is it ok for a british jew to fight for israel, who has killed innocent people, killed un personnel who are suppsoedl;y allies of the us and uk, killed journislist. but when a muslim tries to do teh same he is atererorist ad a traitor. BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDRDS THAT THESE MUSLIM MPS SHOULD PICK UP ON. I RECKON IF BRITAIN ALLOWED MUSLIMS TO GO AND FIGHT FOR THEIR COPUNTRY WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORIST IT MAY CHNAGE THEIR VIEW. THAT MY OPINION ANYWAY.

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

And its strange how britain and its allies are at war with muslim countries. so in that case it would be treachoury for a muslim to defend his land. but its ok for a britsh soldier to cross land and see and invade a country which has done nothing to it or its people. SHAME WITH THE SOUBLE STANDARDS.

AvarAllahNoor · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac

yes they go and fight in places like afghhnaistan, but unlike the britsih or american jews they go iin seceret, less they are arrested and charges for terror. so let me put this question can an britsh msulim of lebanese origin fight againts israel - seeing that it is an allie of britain. im not talking about pronblems on the lebanese side, im talking going from here without being called a terrorisrt. i think these isseues need to be rooted out, because in my opinion it will not cut out the root of terror, but it will reduce its potential.

so its strange you say tehre is no double standards. tehse are the questions muslims should be asking, why is it ok for a british jew to fight for israel, who has killed innocent people, killed un personnel who are suppsoedl;y allies of the us and uk, killed journislist. but when a muslim tries to do teh same he is atererorist ad a traitor. BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDRDS THAT THESE MUSLIM MPS SHOULD PICK UP ON. I RECKON IF BRITAIN ALLOWED MUSLIMS TO GO AND FIGHT FOR THEIR COPUNTRY WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORIST IT MAY CHNAGE THEIR VIEW. THAT MY OPINION ANYWAY.

So it's acceptable for people to live here and then go to another country to fight the people they live amongst?

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

How about you try to read. I was talking about people fighting the israely armie. And beside the point does it make it ok for people from this counrty to go and fight people in another country for no apprent reason other then polictal gain.,

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them. this way they can go and fight in the lands over in the middle east, reducing the poissble effect of attcks in this country by people who are frustrated at foregin policy.

julie sarri · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them. this way they can go and fight in the lands over in the middle east, reducing the poissble effect of attcks in this country by people who are frustrated at foregin policy.

yes you are right brother the muslims should be given the right to go for jihad like others are aloud to do its not fear on the muslims

AvarAllahNoor · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by julie sarri

yes you are right brother the muslims should be given the right to go for jihad like others are aloud to do its not fear on the muslims

But not against their own countrymen...

Trumble · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac

the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them.

Who do you think is actually trying to stop them? It's a free country, if people want to travel to Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever, any problems will be at the other end, not leaving the UK. Leaving is easy, just get on a plane. If people wish to renounce British citizenship, and as a consequence never return to the UK that's up to them too. If they do come back, though, having fought for organizations considered by the UK government to be 'enemy', 'terrorist', or both, they should accept the consequences.

nennar · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

SALAAM!

Quote:

But not against their own countrymen...

WHYNOT??????? THE JEWS DOES IT ALL THE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY WILL AROUND THE WORLD, AND IF ISREAL NEEDS HELP THEY GO!!!!!!!!! AND NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING........ BUT IF A MUSLIM WAMNTS TO HELP A FELLOW MUSLIM, HE IS A TERRORIST???????????? YOU ARE ALL SO TOTALLY BLINDED BY THE JEWS AND THEIR SAD HISTORY.... SO THE JEWS GOT TO BEHAVE LIKE THEY WANT....

FELLOW MUSLIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHEN DO YOU WAKE UP???????????

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

exactly.

Isaac · **Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? -** 08-25-2006

exactly. thats where the million dollar point is. who is a terrorist to you is a freedom fighter to anothjer. in the eyes of the british and us govenrment the following are terrorist sponosrs or organisations:

iraq
iran
hazballah
palestine
syria
somalia

well seeing this is where most of the confllicts are goin on and being muslim countries it would be difficult to get a muslim to fight in Ireland. they will wnat to fight where their countries are being attacked, and most of not all are being attacked by briatin and her allies. so i somehow think that would be impossible. - for a british muslim not to fight.

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	(#1 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? 10th August, 2006 Current Affairs The Times links up with a British-born Jew who is fighting with the Israeli army: At first sight Ben and his mates could be at a wedding party on the lawns of an hotel in his native Yorkshire. Except that this hotel is a short drive from the Israel-Lebanon border and, despite his Leeds accent, Ben is an Israeli soldier. He is also cradling an Israeli-army issue Colt AR15 semi-automatic rifle stamped “Property of US Govt”. Ben, 26, who arrived in Israel last year, is one of thousands of those serving in the Israeli military either as newly arrived citizens or on army programmes for Zionists who want to defend Israel while deciding whether to emigrate. Earlier in the day he was ducking Hezbollah mortars in the Lebanese village of Adessa, just across the border. Now he sits chatting in two languages about two lives — as a would-be medical student in Britain and as an Israeli soldier known among his colleagues for his stamina and ability to carry a heavy machinegun over long distances. No cries of treachery there! One wonders how it is that this whole debate on integration and allegiance never seems to include Jews. Orthodox Jews are one of the most insulated communities; their children can grow up having never seen people of a different faith. And now Jews are free to join the army of another country and engage in a conflict that has been condemned by much of the World. This is not new, and has been known for a while, yet no one seems to be doing anything about it. Of course, had a Muslim Briton been found fighting with the Lebanese there would be no end of uproar. Some will say that Hizbullah is a proscribed group, whereas the Israeli Army is a recognised force; fair enough, but what if someone joined the Lebanese Army, would that be acceptable? Aside from this, many IDF soldiers partake in illegal activity on the Palestinian Occupied Territories; some of those are British. It is a question of being just; it is either acceptable for a Briton to hold allegiances elsewhere or it is not. The point of me posting this article up, was based around would the western government allow britsih youg muslim men to fight in places such as afghanistan, iraq, lebanon. There are plenty of such people who originate from war zones and should be able t fight just like the british jews. To make my point i think it would cut down terrorism, if these young men were allowed to leave and go fight. this i personally hink is one of the things which lead them to teooeros attack - i.e double standards.

	(#2 (permalink))
AvarAllahNoor Status: Offline Posts: 3,297 Reputation: 5888 Rep Power: 33 Join Date: May 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Sikh	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 Lol, what about the hundreds that rush off to Afghanistan and Iraq to fight the British? __________________ Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah. Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji! Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa. In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God. Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Mahraaj Ji!

	(#3 (permalink))
Trumble IB Oldtimer Status: Offline Posts: 2,677 Reputation: 7593 Rep Power: 36 Join Date: Feb 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Buddhist	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 I don't quite see your, or the author's, point. The British Army itself has many such foreign soldiers in its own ranks, such as the Nepalese Gurkhas and Fijians. There would be no "treachery" involved in fighting for any foreign army, providing that you are not fighting against Britain or its Allies. That would be the case in Afghanistan and Iraq, and hence there is no "double standard". Hezbollah is still considered by Britain to be a terrorist organisation, so obviously a Briton fighting for them is likely to fall under serious suspicion, but there would still be no charge of "treason" as such. Any problems in joining the Lebanese army would probably be at the Lebanese end.

	(#4 (permalink))
north_malaysian IB Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 8,459 Reputation: 22729 Rep Power: 61 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Penang Island, Malaysia Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 No wonder, why Malaysia doesnt allowed her citizen to have dual nationality - LOYALTY... __________________ Assalamualaykum... I am back!!

	(#5 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 yes they go and fight in places like afghhnaistan, but unlike the britsih or american jews they go iin seceret, less they are arrested and charges for terror. so let me put this question can an britsh msulim of lebanese origin fight againts israel - seeing that it is an allie of britain. im not talking about pronblems on the lebanese side, im talking going from here without being called a terrorisrt. i think these isseues need to be rooted out, because in my opinion it will not cut out the root of terror, but it will reduce its potential. so its strange you say tehre is no double standards. tehse are the questions muslims should be asking, why is it ok for a british jew to fight for israel, who has killed innocent people, killed un personnel who are suppsoedl;y allies of the us and uk, killed journislist. but when a muslim tries to do teh same he is atererorist ad a traitor. BLATANT DOUBLE STANDARDS. DOUBLE STANDRDS THAT THESE MUSLIM MPS SHOULD PICK UP ON. I RECKON IF BRITAIN ALLOWED MUSLIMS TO GO AND FIGHT FOR THEIR COPUNTRY WITHOUT BEING CALLED TERRORIST IT MAY CHNAGE THEIR VIEW. THAT MY OPINION ANYWAY.

	(#6 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 And its strange how britain and its allies are at war with muslim countries. so in that case it would be treachoury for a muslim to defend his land. but its ok for a britsh soldier to cross land and see and invade a country which has done nothing to it or its people. SHAME WITH THE SOUBLE STANDARDS.

	(#8 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 How about you try to read. I was talking about people fighting the israely armie. And beside the point does it make it ok for people from this counrty to go and fight people in another country for no apprent reason other then polictal gain.,

	(#9 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 the point im tryuing to make is that ok, these people say they want to fight jihad, the govenrment should let them. they shoudl be given the option either stay in this country and fight with us or leave your citizneship and fight with them. this way they can go and fight in the lands over in the middle east, reducing the poissble effect of attcks in this country by people who are frustrated at foregin policy.

	(#14 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 exactly.

	(#15 (permalink))
Isaac Full Member Status: Offline Posts: 466 Reputation: 361 Rep Power: 27 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: British Jews fighting for Israel - treachery? - 08-25-2006 exactly. thats where the million dollar point is. who is a terrorist to you is a freedom fighter to anothjer. in the eyes of the british and us govenrment the following are terrorist sponosrs or organisations: iraq iran hazballah palestine syria somalia well seeing this is where most of the confllicts are goin on and being muslim countries it would be difficult to get a muslim to fight in Ireland. they will wnat to fight where their countries are being attacked, and most of not all are being attacked by briatin and her allies. so i somehow think that would be impossible. - for a british muslim not to fight.