You must also admit that while Shamil Basayev is popular among the Islamic fighters in Chechnya, the civilian population feels trapped between Russian forces and the Islamic fighters. There isn't widespread Chechen support for these Islamic fighters either. Human Rights Watch has documented cases where Islamic fighters have launched attacks from civilian areas(sound familiar?), and refused to leave civilian towns when the people have asked them to do so.

Originally Posted by blunderbus

NOTHING justifies Beslan, get it? Anyone who had a hand in planning it or carrying it out is a monster.

agreed. That includes the murdering pillaging Russians and each and every one of us who remains silent while people are pushed to commit such horrendous acts. Now before you start your usual muslims are murderers speech I want to go on the records and say; yes we are!
Muslims are human after all, it seems silly for you to expect us to be killed and just sit there grinning from ear to ear. Its pathetic how you keep pinpointing muslims actions and never anyone elses..and its downright sick how you overlook the pains of muslims the world over and still have the nerve to question our actions.
Quite frankly I dont give a hoot about the Beslan children, and to put it bluntly neither do you. Im being honest..I could care less about them, after watching and reading world news for the past few hours..I couldnt care less about anything.
The only time I hear people mention massacres is when they want to point the finger at others, yes, Beslan happened, now what? why dont you try and get to the root of the problem? I believe Chechnya mentioned thousands of Chechen children were murdered. Did that stir you? do you give a damm? (purposefully misspelt)
answer anyone?
Im sick of everyone expecting muslims to "behave" while we're being slaughtered day in and day out. Wake up people, we live in a jungle as long as you harm a certain people, best believe they will harm you and yours.

It's simple, I want to know if the Muslim posters on this board consider Basayev a hero like Chechnya does. Is his opinion the norm or the minority?

hero? nope..
human? definately.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Any more will lead to severe infractions and this thread is currently on the verge of being locked.

"it seems silly for you to expect us to be killed and just sit there grinning from ear to ear."
As I stated before, I do not expect that. (Have I criticized the Chechen resistance as a whole? No I have not.) I have critized the idea that a person who has admitted to slaughtering over a hundred small children is someone who should be looked too as a hero.

"Now before you start your usual muslims are murderers speech"
Most Muslims are not murderers, but Basayev is.

"The only time I hear people mention massacres is when they want to point the finger at others, yes, Beslan happened, now what?"
I didn't bring it up. The thread is about the idolization of the man who is responsible for Beslan.

Most Muslims are not murderers, but Basayev WAS. (typo)

No doubt you wanted the genocide of the Chechn nation to continue - Basayev stopped it - when all the world turned away and left them to die. Gotta love the fella!

Maybe one day when you have children of your own then you will understand.

Maybe they will give you the humanity to realize that someone who deliberately slaughters the precious little ones is never to be idolized.

I hope one day you will learn to appreciate all innocent human life. This isn't about Muslim vs non Muslim, it's a shame you can't see that.

I got this from the thread "Posting in the World Affairs Section - 05-16-2006"

"No praise of, condoning of, or calls for violence or other unislamic behaviour will be tolerated whatsover on the forum."

I would like a clarification. Was Mr. Basayev's behavior "islamic"? It certainly was violent. Isn't calling someone a "hero" condoning their acts?

I'm still waiting to hear from the administrators. Was mr. Basayev's behaviour "islamic" or not. I would really like to know. Does the "religion of peace" condone the butchering of hundreds of little children?

I couldn't get the admin's interested so I looked it up myself.
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?re...ing%20children

"...is absolutely not permitted to mutilate the dead; nor to kill a child;"

"Only a criminal with a heart harder than a stone which has no mercy, does not know Allaah, and does not believe in the hereafter would do such acts. It is not even possible for a sane person to believe that such a person is a Muslim. This is a fact that can't be hidden even if the person is disguised in Muslim clothing and grows a beard."

So Shamil Basayev was NOT a great hero to the Muslim world. He wasn't even a true Muslim. He didn't know Allah and he didn't believe in the hereafter. He was a CRIMINAL in EVERY sense of the word!

Am I missing something? Tell me if I am.

Originally Posted by blunderbus

I'm still waiting to hear from the administrators. Was mr. Basayev's behaviour "islamic" or not. I would really like to know. Does the "religion of peace" condone the butchering of hundreds of little children?

You forget the sanctions on Iraq.

You didn't answer my question.

Was Basayev's behavior islamic? And if it isn't why do you allow praise for him on the board? Isn't that a violation of the posted rules?

Why is it so difficult to find one single Muslim on this board who will condemn an admitted mass child murderer?

You want to attack me or change the topic, ANYTHING to avoid dealing with the subject.

I would have thought that Basayev's behavior was un-islamic, but considering the attitude on this board I'm beginning to wonder.

I've completely run out of patience.

I have no more patience for the barbarity and lack of humanity shown by SOME of the posters.

I have no more patience for the administrators who will not enforce their own rules.

I came to this board to learn about Islam and I have. I wont be posting or coming here anymore.

I truly pray that none of your precious little children are ever in the hands of someone like Basayev, even though I know you wont return the favor for my little ones.

Was Basayev's behavior islamic?

Beslan, no. His decade long fight against the Russian military, yes - him saving the Chechn people from total annhilation in the first war, yes. I love him greatly for that - and so should all others here.

And if it isn't why do you allow praise for him on the board? Isn't that a violation of the posted rules?

Already answered - its not our fault you cant read. Im not gonna repeat it again for little kids who have the attention span of a 2 year old

I would have thought that Basayev's behavior was un-islamic, but considering the attitude on this board I'm beginning to wonder.

Yes, Beslan was very unislamic.

Until you get into your think skull, that Shamil repented what he did in beslan and offered to die for it, you wont understand anything.
An education is a great thing - i reccommend it to you

I've completely run out of patience.

I have no more patience for the barbarity and lack of humanity shown by SOME of the posters

I have no more patience for the barbarity and lack of humanity shown by SOME of the posters like yourself who seemingly want the Chechen people to continue to be slaughtered.

I have no more patience for the administrators who will not enforce their own rules.

I came to this board to learn about Islam and I have. I wont be posting or coming here anymore.

If you ever decide to get that education, please do return to us.

I truly pray that none of your precious little children are ever in the hands of someone like Basayev, even though I know you wont return the favor for my little ones.

Rather than pretending to care about us - do us a favour, sort your own people out.
Try not to re-elect mass-murderers who have been slaughtering muslim women and children. Only when you have achieved this can we talk properly. Adios!

This is all a matter of perspective. Blunderbus is upset because he feels there isn't enough condemnation of what happened in Beslan. Those posters whose perspective is that of Chechen supporters feel they have condemned the massacre, but feel outraged that Westerners seem so upset about Beslan but say nothing about the atrocities committed by Russians upon the Chechen children. It is a product of perspective. As small as the world is getting, (globalization), there is still a disconnect between much of the world and the those forgotten countries like Chechnya whose plight gets little to no global media attention. If we can all agree on anything, perhaps it is that Belsan was an evil act, the atrocities by the Russians were and are evil acts...and the best we can hope for is an end to violence from both sides.

I had to come back one more time...

"that Shamil repented what he did in beslan and offered to die for it"
That's a crock and you know it! He never quite got around to turning himself in, did he? But that's someone elses fault too, isn't it? That offer was just for the benefit of people like you!

There is NEVER a justification for specifically targeting children. They were like wolves hunting rabbits and you're too full of evil to have any compassion for those tiny victims. They were kafir so there lives are not important to you, why don't you just admit it. Do you smile when you think of your brave muslim warriors raping 9 year old girls? Or your heroes shooting fleeing children in the back? I bet you wish you could have dealt out some of your own misery to the little kafirs. Do you chuckle when think of little children being forced to drink their own urine? You do if they are kafir children (not really humans anyway right?) Don't lie and say you have any feelings at all for them, you called their murderer a "HERO!"

You say that I don't care about the deaths of innocents?! I didn't start a thread calling a child butcherer a hero, you did! You brought it up. Get it? You're the one that made light of the deaths of innocents NOT ME.

"Rather than pretending to care about us "
You can't point to a single post I've made celebrating anyone who deliberately massacred Muslim children.
Did I call the Russians who commit atrocities in Chechnya "heroes"? I did not. You call an admitted mass child murderer a "Hero" and you have the audacity to suggest that it is ME that is cold hearted!

"If we can all agree on anything, perhaps it is that Belsan was an evil act, the atrocities by the Russians were and are evil acts...and the best we can hope for is an end to violence from both sides."
I completely agree with this but Chechnya doesn't. To him only one half of this is evil, the other is heroic. It all depends on the religion of the victim and victimizer.

"Chechen supporters feel they have condemned the massacre"
yet love the man that carried it out, give me a break!


Chechnya,you have no soul, no heart, no humanity. You only see people as human beings if they are like you. Their suffering isn't important as long as you get what you want. You are EXACTLY like the Russians committing the atrocities in Chechnya, no difference, NONE. You and everyone like you disgust me. People like you are the reason there is so much death and pain in the world.

"If you ever decide to get that education"
You've given me quite an education already. I thought it was self apparent to EVERYONE that terrorizing, raping and murdering children is ALWAYS wrong and anyone who purposefully does it is not to be admired, but I was wrong. Some people don't have the humanity to grasp that simple concept.

This thread ran its course long ago. Locked.