Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque"

imaad_udeen · **Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Is it usually ok to allow Christians to pray in a mosque? Aren't we to assume they would be praying to Jesus?

Confusing.

Quote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/...pe_turkey]Link

Pope prays with cleric at Turkey mosque

By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer 7 minutes ago

Pope Benedict XVI prayed alongside an Islamic cleric in Turkey's most famous mosque Thursday in a dramatic gesture of outreach to Muslims after outrage from the pontiff's remarks linking violence and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad.

The pope bowed his head and closed his eyes for nearly a minute inside the Blue Mosque after Mustafa Cagrici, the head cleric of Istanbul, said: "Now I'm going to pray."

As the pope left the famous 17th century mosque, the pope turned to Cagrici and thanked him "for this moment of prayer," the Italian news agency ANSA reported.

"This visit will help us find together the way of peace for the good of all humanity," the pope said during only the second papal visit to a Muslim place of worship. Benedict's predecessor, John Paul II, visited a mosque in Syria in 2001.

The mosque visit was added to Benedict's schedule as a "sign of respect" during his first papal trip to a Muslim nation, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said last week.

The pope removed his shoes before entering the carpeted expanse of the mosque, which is officially known as the Sultan Ahmet Mosque after the Ottoman sultan Ahmet I, who ordered its construction. But it's widely called the Blue Mosque after its elaborate blue tiles.

Benedict received a gift of a glazed tile decorated with a dove and a painting showing a view of the Sea of Marmara off Istanbul. The pope gave the imam a mosaic showing four doves.

"Let us pray for brotherhood and for all humanity," the pope said in Italian.

Lombardi said the pope "paused in meditation" inside the mosque and "certainly his thoughts turned to God."

The pope has offered wide-ranging messages of reconciliation to Muslims since arriving in Turkey on Tuesday, including appeals for greater understanding and support for Turkey's steps to become the first Muslim nation in the European Union.

But Benedict also has set down his own demands.

After a deeply symbolic display of unity with Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's Christian Orthodox, the pope again repeated his calls for greater freedoms for religious minorities and lamented the divisions among Christians — including the nearly 1,000-year rift between Catholics and Orthodox.

"The divisions which exist among Christians are a scandal to the world," Benedict said after joining Bartholomew to mark the feast day of St. Andrew, who preached across Asia Minor and who tradition says ordained the first bishop of Constantinople, now called Istanbul.

The symbolism of the Orthodox Liturgy was highly significant to Roman Catholics. Andrew was the brother of St. Peter, who was martyred in Rome and is considered the first pope.

Benedict has made outreach to the world's more than 250 million Orthodox a centerpiece of his young papacy and has set the difficult goal of full unity between the two ancient branches of Christianity, which split nearly 1,000 years ago over disputes, including the extent of papal authority.

It's also a key part of the pope's drive to reinforce Christian bonds in Europe and around the world.

He said all Christians should "renew Europe's awareness of its Christian roots, traditions and values, giving them new vitality."

In a joint statement, the pope and patriarch stressed the need to "preserve Christian roots" in European culture while remaining "open to other religions and their cultural contributions."

The comments could send conflicting signals to Turkey after the Vatican suggested there was room in the European Union for its first Muslim member. They could also serve as a rallying point for groups opposed to bringing a predominantly Muslim country into the bloc.

The pope also recalled how the faith was shaped by the encounters of early Christians with the scientific and intellectual traditions of ancient Greece. It was the same theological backdrop — faith and reason — that was the basis for his explosive remarks in September on violence and the Prophet Muhammad.

Benedict avoided any direct mention of Islam after praying with Bartholomew at the gilded St. George Church in Istanbul — which as Constantinople was the capital of Christian Byzantium before falling to Muslim forces in 1453.

But the pope urged "all world leaders to respect religious freedom as a fundamental human right."

Benedict, making his first papal visit to a predominantly Muslim nation, had previously said Muslim demands for greater respect in the West must be matched by increased tolerance and freedoms for Christians in Islamic nations.

The joint statement listed "religious freedom" as one of the hallmarks of the EU — a clear reference to Turkey and its efforts to join the bloc.

The pontiff also visited the 1,500-year-old Haghia Sophia, a domed complex that once was a spiritual center of Christianity and was converted to a mosque in the 15th century. The site became a museum following the sweeping secular reforms that formed modern Turkey in the 1920s.

Wearing white robes, Benedict listened as a museum official explained the site's remarkable mix of Quranic calligraphy and the Christian symbols that remained, including a frescoes and mosaics of figures revered by Islam such as Jesus and the Virgin Mary.

Security was extremely tight, including snipers on the minarets added to Haghia Sophia following the Muslim conquest.

About 150 nationalists protested the pope's visit to the site, gathering at a square less than a mile away and urging the government to open the museum to Muslim worship. Nationalists view the planned visit as a sign of Christian claims to the site and a challenge to Turkish sovereignty.

"Haghia Sophia is Turkish and will remain Turkish," one protest sign read. Riot police surrounded the demonstrators to prevent them from advancing toward the site.

The pope's deepening ties with Bartholomew — called the "first among equals" among Orthodox leaders — also is watched with suspicion in Turkey as a possible challenge to state-imposed limits on Christian minorities and others.

Turkey does not acknowledge Bartholomew's global status and considers him as the leader of 2,000-member Greek Orthodox community remaining in Turkey. Greek Orthodox leaders have hoped the papal visit would increase pressure on Turkey to reform rules governing religious minorities, including lifting educational laws that forced the closure of Istanbul's only Greek Orthodox seminary more than 20 years ago.

Of Turkey's 70 million people, some 65,000 are Armenian Orthodox Christians, 20,000 are Roman Catholic and 3,500 are Protestant, mostly converts from Islam. Another 23,000 are Jewish.

___

Associated Press writer Victor L. Simpson contributed to this report.

Keltoi · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

In 638, the magistrate of the Holy City was the Greek Patriarch Sophronius and he had the sad task of of escorting the Caliph Omar, who rode triumphantly into into Jerusalem on a white camel. Omar asked to be taken immediately to the Temple Mount and there he knelt in prayer on the spot where his friend Mohammad had alighted after his Night Journey to heaven. [...]Next Omar asked to see the Christian shrines and, while he was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the time for Muslim prayer came around. Courteously the Patriarch invited him to pray where he was, but Omar as courteously refused. If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by building a mosque there, and that would mean they would demolish the Holy Sepulchre. This must not happen because the Christian shrines must be preserved. Instead, Omar went to pray at a little distance from the church and, sure enough, directly opposite the Holy Sepulchre there is still a small mosque dedicated to the Caliph Omar

This was a paragraph from a book I read some time ago by Karen Armstrong. I posted it because it shows that even in 638 the Catholic Patriarch offered to allow the Holy Sepulchre to be Caliph Omar's place of prayer. It isn't that "controversial".

Ismahaan · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?

Surat-ul Jinn 72: 18 "And the mosques are for Allah (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah."

Keltoi · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ismahaan

Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?

Surat-ul Jinn 72: 18 "And the mosques are for Allah (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah."

Perhaps for the same reason a Christian Patriarch allowed a Muslim to pray at the Holy Sepulchre? Churches and Mosques are built to worship God.

arabiyyah · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque?

How do you know that the pope was not praying to Allah? Do they not believe in Allah who Ibraheem worshiped?

Ar-RaYYan · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabiyyah

How do you know that the pope was not praying to Allah? Do they not believe in Allah who Ibraheem worshiped?

He might have prayed to Allah but still he is a kafir considering not believing in prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) and Islam as the last religion to enter to the earth. Anyway was is the point the pope praying to Allah as he already have rejected Allah's words.

**Muezzin** · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

I urge members to calm down before posting in this thread, or I may well delete their posts.

Keltoi · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muezzin

I urge members to calm down before posting in this thread, or I may well delete their posts.

I hope that wasn't directed towards me. My point was that both Mosques and Churches are built as places to worship God, and as far back as 638 this practice wasn't considered controversial, at least from the Christian side, so I don't see why it should be controversial in 2006.

**Muezzin** · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keltoi

I hope that wasn't directed towards me. My point was that both Mosques and Churches are built as places to worship God, and as far back as 638 this practice wasn't considered controversial, at least from the Christian side, so I don't see why it should be controversial in 2006.

It wasn't directed at you. I can just foresee this thread attracting a lot of controversy (and thus, head-aches)

FBI · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

lol can u say damage control.

Umar001 · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid?

glo · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by imaad_udeen

Is it usually ok to allow Christians to pray in a mosque? Aren't we to assume they would be praying to Jesus?

Confusing.

They would be praying to the Almighty - the one and only God, creator and giver of all life.

Peace

schoolmaster54 · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 11-30-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsaAbdullah

Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid?

Hadith of Mubahela

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To meet Wikipedia's quality standards, this article or section may require cleanup.
Please discuss this issue on the talk page, or replace this tag with a more specific message. Editing help is available.
This article has been tagged since August 2006.
Mubahela means debating with each other. It is also the name of an event where Mohammad summoned the Ahl al-Bayt against the Christians of Najran.
The event is recorded in manny hadith collections and is referred to in the Qur'an.
It is seen as one of the merits of Ahl al-Bayt and is widely used in Shia-Sunni argumantations, and also used by the Shia to prove that Ali has the same authority over Muslims as Mohammad.

Contents

[hide]

<LI class=toclevel-1>1 Event <LI class=toclevel-1>2 Qur'an <LI class=toclevel-1>3 Shia view <LI class=toclevel-1>4 See also <LI class=toclevel-1>5 References
6 External links

//
[edit] Event

According to Islamic tradition, the Christians of Najran were unhappy because of the rapid spread of Islam in the lands of Arabia. They wished to discuss this matter with Mohammad and arrived in Madina. Few learned scholars were selected by the Christians who had a continuous dialogue with Mohammad for three days. It started on Saturday, when Sunday arrived, the christians asked to leave the city to pray. The Prophet told them to stay and pray inside the Mosque of the Prophet which they did.
They were unable to arrive on any mutual understanding. When they did not agree on this point revelation from Allah came to the Prophet Mohammad. (Sura Ale Imran V 61) The verse reads- "If you are not prepared to accept the truth after the fact that you have failed in your arguments, Say, Come now, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, our Selves and Your Selves, then let us humbly pray and so lay God’s curse upon the ones who lie.”
The next morning the Mohammad emerged from his house with his closest family. He held the hand of Hasan walking beside him, held Hussain in his arms, followed by his daughter Fatimah. She was followed by Ali. He came and stood with this family in front of the Christian Bishops who also came forward to perform the Mubahela. The chief of the Christians was Bishop Abul Harris. When he saw this small family of the Prophet he turned towards his fellow christians and told them, ”do not indulge in Mubahela with this family, for I am observing such pious faces that if they would order the mountain to come to them the mountain shall move towards them. It is therefore prudent to make treaty with them rather than confrontation of this spiritual imminence." They asked Mohammad for peace and it was accepted. Mohammad extended the hand of friendship towards them, a treaty was signed and both parties left on friendly terms.
Date: 9 AH [1]

[edit] Qur'an

Pickthall Sura 3:61:
And whoso disputeth with thee concerning him, after the knowledge which hath come unto thee, say (unto him): Come! We will summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves, then we will pray humbly (to our Lord) and (solemnly) invoke the curse of Allah upon those who lie.
[edit] Shia view

Interestingly, this verse is addressing Mohammad, he is the one making the Mubahela, but it is written in the perspective of Ali. Fatimah is described as "our women", Hasan and Husain are "our sons" and Ali is "ourselves". This is taken by Shias to prove that they hold the same authority in the eyes of God.
A lot of Shia believe that "ourselves" refers to his grandson Hussain because of the famous saying by the Prophet "Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain" (حسين مني وانا من حسين)

[edit] See also

[edit] References

Prose contains specific citations in source text which may be viewed in edit mode.

^ http://www.*************/kaaba14/2.htm

[edit] External links

http://www.*************/kaaba14/2.htm

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Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_Mubahela"
Categories: Cleanup from August 2006 | Hadith | Islam stubs

north_malaysian · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 12-01-2006

Pope John Paul II prayed in Umayyad mosque.... so what's the big fuss about it?

north_malaysian · **Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" -** 12-01-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keltoi

If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by building a mosque there, and that would mean they would demolish the Holy Sepulchre.

How many churches being converted to mosques, and how many mosques converted into churches....... Caliph Omar had set a good example that some Muslim and Christian leaders dont follow.

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	(#2 (permalink))
Keltoi IB Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 5,376 Reputation: 9219 Rep Power: 38 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Oklahoma, USA Gender: Way of Life: Christian	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 11-30-2006 In 638, the magistrate of the Holy City was the Greek Patriarch Sophronius and he had the sad task of of escorting the Caliph Omar, who rode triumphantly into into Jerusalem on a white camel. Omar asked to be taken immediately to the Temple Mount and there he knelt in prayer on the spot where his friend Mohammad had alighted after his Night Journey to heaven. [...]Next Omar asked to see the Christian shrines and, while he was in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the time for Muslim prayer came around. Courteously the Patriarch invited him to pray where he was, but Omar as courteously refused. If he knelt to pray in the church, he explained, the Muslims would want to commemorate the event by building a mosque there, and that would mean they would demolish the Holy Sepulchre. This must not happen because the Christian shrines must be preserved. Instead, Omar went to pray at a little distance from the church and, sure enough, directly opposite the Holy Sepulchre there is still a small mosque dedicated to the Caliph Omar This was a paragraph from a book I read some time ago by Karen Armstrong. I posted it because it shows that even in 638 the Catholic Patriarch offered to allow the Holy Sepulchre to be Caliph Omar's place of prayer. It isn't that "controversial".

	(#3 (permalink))
Ismahaan Silly Girl Status: Offline Posts: 71 Reputation: 197 Rep Power: 20 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Westend o' London Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 11-30-2006 Why the hell was a kafir allowed to pray in a mosque? Surat-ul Jinn 72: 18 "And the mosques are for Allah (Alone): so invoke not anyone along with Allah."

	(#7 (permalink))
Muezzin Want cup of tea! Status: Offline Posts: 10,532 Reputation: 50478 Rep Power: 102 Join Date: Jun 2005 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 11-30-2006 I urge members to calm down before posting in this thread, or I may well delete their posts. __________________ Story Writing Contest Pay a visit to the masters of might, magic and Monday mornings Fedora-sporting userpage

	(#10 (permalink))
FBI IB Senior Member Status: Offline Posts: 676 Reputation: 2115 Rep Power: 22 Join Date: Nov 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 11-30-2006 lol can u say damage control.

	(#11 (permalink))
Umar001 IB Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 5,903 Reputation: 24453 Rep Power: 60 Join Date: Jan 2006 Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 11-30-2006 Did The Prophet, peace be upon him, allow Christians to pray in his masjid? __________________ The path is long but I hope we meet, After the grave and the Day, in paradise in bliss upon a reclined seat. A traveler traveling - travelled from shirk to tawheed, If I'm remembered for anything - let it be the Mercy I seek. Your Bro. Abu Hurayra, al-Habeshi

	(#14 (permalink))
north_malaysian IB Oldskool Status: Offline Posts: 8,459 Reputation: 22729 Rep Power: 61 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Penang Island, Malaysia Gender: Way of Life: Muslim	Re: Pope prays at the "Blue Mosque" - 12-01-2006 Pope John Paul II prayed in Umayyad mosque.... so what's the big fuss about it? __________________ Assalamualaykum... I am back!!