You are wrong brother, shamil was not a good person, he used innocent chldren in a bad way for something that was good, but it was still a horrible thing to do to children. MAybe it was for good, but it was still a VERY wrong way to do it. I put him in the same place in my mind as both putin and bush. And for you to say that a chechens blood is more precious than a russians is a very bad thing to say . Nobody is worth more than others because of what country they comefrom. The way that you say such a thing is in a very nationalism way, but is that allowed in islam ? I don't think so.

Since you have proven you know nothing about him, why even bother commenting?

In 1996 Shamil saved hundreds of thousands of lives by ending a brutal war - and the mass-murder and rape of his people - through his military brilliance and bravery.

Can anyone name me ANY Muslim today who has done that for our Ummah?

Anyone?????

He wasnt perfect - he made mistakes. In Beslan he made the biggest mistake of his life - he himself said he regretted it and offered to pay with his life for it.

And yet we still have some people who have the nerve to come on and slander him - i advise you to find out about Chechnya and Shamils life before commmenting.

Please take the advice.

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Can anyone name me ANY Muslim today who has done that for our Ummah?

Anyone?????

OBL has done more.

OBL has done more.

No he hasnt.

And no-one knows whether what they blame him for was actually carried out by him - but thats a discussion for another thread

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Since you have proven you know nothing about him, why even bother commenting?

In 1996 Shamil saved hundreds of thousands of lives by ending a brutal war - and the mass-murder and rape of his people - through his military brilliance and bravery.

Can anyone name me ANY Muslim today who has done that for our Ummah?

Anyone?????

He wasnt perfect - he made mistakes. In Beslan he made the biggest mistake of his life - he himself said he regretted it and offered to pay with his life for it.

And yet we still have some people who have the nerve to come on and slander him - i advise you to find out about Chechnya and Shamils life before commmenting.

Please take the advice.

Very true nicely said

Originally Posted by Sweetness

You are wrong brother, shamil was not a good person, he used innocent chldren in a bad way for something that was good, but it was still a horrible thing to do to children. MAybe it was for good, but it was still a VERY wrong way to do it. I put him in the same place in my mind as both putin and bush. And for you to say that a chechens blood is more precious than a russians is a very bad thing to say :rant: . Nobody is worth more than others because of what country they comefrom. The way that you say such a thing is in a very nationalism way, but is that allowed in islam ? I don't think so.

I didn't just say that a Chechen's blood is more precious than a Russian's or anybody else's blood, I said that for me a Chechen's blood is more precious than a Russian's blood meaning that if a Chechen dies I'll be sad but if a Russian kafir dies you think I'm going to be sad for him? I never said we were superior I just tried to say that I'm sad when I see Chechens dying but don't care at all if I see a Russian kafir dying. I have the right to love my country and love my countrymen. And as for you talking bad about Basayev, you should go try and put the world's second most powerful army on its knees with only 1500 men who are carrying nothing but AK's while the enemy has 30 000 men with tanks, planes, helicopters etc, once you end a genocidal war that has costed the death of 300 000 people which among are 45 000 children and 80% of Grozny being completely destroyed. Once you achieve all of that you might be able to come back and talk about Basayev but for now you can't say anything about him.

Originally Posted by Chechen

I didn't just say that a Chechen's blood is more precious than a Russian's or anybody else's blood, I said that for me a Chechen's blood is more precious than a Russian's blood meaning that if a Chechen dies I'll be sad but if a Russian kafir dies you think I'm going to be sad for him? I never said we were superior I just tried to say that I'm sad when I see Chechens dying but don't care at all if I see a Russian kafir dying. I have the right to love my country and love my countrymen. And as for you talking bad about Basayev, you should go try and put the world's second most powerful army on its knees with only 1500 men who are carrying nothing but AK's while the enemy has 30 000 men with tanks, planes, helicopters etc, once you end a genocidal war that has costed the death of 300 000 people which among are 45 000 children and 80% of Grozny being completely destroyed. Once you achieve all of that you might be able to come back and talk about Basayev but for now you can't say anything about him.

I'm sad when I see Chechens dying but don't care at all if I see a Russian kafir dying.

OMG brother!?! You are being just awful to say this! Such words are embarassing. No life is worth more than another just because one is a russian or not a muslim. thats just awful for you to say . and I dont care what you say Basaayev acomplished, he still did things in a very bad way. you should never take innocent babies lives hostage for any reason, those poor kids . And you say that you have the right to love your country, but you forget that islam does not permit nationism.

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Since you have proven you know nothing about him, why even bother commenting?

In 1996 Shamil saved hundreds of thousands of lives by ending a brutal war - and the mass-murder and rape of his people - through his military brilliance and bravery.

Can anyone name me ANY Muslim today who has done that for our Ummah?

Anyone?????

He wasnt perfect - he made mistakes. In Beslan he made the biggest mistake of his life - he himself said he regretted it and offered to pay with his life for it.

And yet we still have some people who have the nerve to come on and slander him - i advise you to find out about Chechnya and Shamils life before commmenting.

Please take the advice.

Brother, I have the right to coment about what ever I please, who do you think you are to say what I can talk about!? Why even comment on what I have said without even knowing anything about me?! and brother you say he made a mistake, but a mistake is like dropping ice cream or driving the wrong way on a road, he planned something awful, that was much more than a mistake. poor kids should be left out of such disputes.

Brother, I have the right to coment about what ever I please, who do you think you are to say what I can talk about!? Why even comment on what I have said without even knowing anything about me?! and brother you say he made a mistake, but a mistake is like dropping ice cream or driving the wrong way on a road, he planned something awful, that was much more than a mistake. poor kids should be left out of such disputes.

Yes you can comment about what you like - my question to you was why slander a brother whom you seem to know nothing about?

Why not just remain silent if your unsure on what is actually happening?

A mistake is a mistake - he offered to die for it, what more do you want from him?

Again if you know about the situation in Chechnya, you would know that killing anyone in the school would have been the last thing they wanted and he said he regretted it, He accepted his role ( though it was the russians who did the killing) and offered to go on trial.

You act like no-one is allowed to make mistakes. Even Khalid bin Waleed (ra) made mistakes in war - on one occasion he killed innocents and the Prophet (saw) said "i am free from what Khalid did".

So the Prophet (saw) distanced himself from Khalids (ra) actions in that particular event - but not distance himself from Khalid Bin Waleed (ra) himself who was a proven war leader - nor did he slander him.

and I dont care what you say Basaayev acomplished,

I think im beginning to understand your position on this.

You dont care about the hundreds of thousands of Muslim women and children he saved - but you do care about the 300 that died in Russia as thats what you keep refering too.

If you dont care about Muslims - our brothers and sisters who are being slaughtered and raped like animals for the last decade - then i cant say im too interested in what your opinion is.

You must be from one of the Arab countries, they all seem to support Russia too

Originally Posted by Sweetness

OMG brother!?! You are being just awful to say this! Such words are embarassing. No life is worth more than another just because one is a russian or not a muslim. thats just awful for you to say . and I dont care what you say Basaayev acomplished, he still did things in a very bad way. you should never take innocent babies lives hostage for any reason, those poor kids . And you say that you have the right to love your country, but you forget that islam does not permit nationism.

Wait you expect me to be sad when a Russian kafir soldier ,who slaughtered muslim brothers and sisters, dies? I may be wrong and I hope to be wrong but you seem to support the kafir more than your muslim brothers and sisters because here you are defending kafirs who slaughtered thousands of your brothers and sisters. You're sitting here bashing Basayev when you obviously know nothing about him. You're defending people who have killed 300 000 people and complaining about people who killed 300 people even though they weren't the ones that killed those people. And I have all the right to love my country and protect it, there's nothing bad about that. You are the first person from who I ever heard this from. Allah made me a Chechen and a muslim and I thank him for that. If that is wrong then please prove it to me because this is the first time I hear this in my life.

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Yes you can comment about what you like - my question to you was why slander a brother whom you seem to know nothing about?

Why not just remain silent if your unsure on what is actually happening?

A mistake is a mistake - he offered to die for it, what more do you want from him?

Again if you know about the situation in Chechnya, you would know that killing anyone in the school would have been the last thing they wanted and he said he regretted it, He accepted his role ( though it was the russians who did the killing) and offered to go on trial.

You act like no-one is allowed to make mistakes. Even Khalid bin Waleed (ra) made mistakes in war - on one occasion he killed innocents and the Prophet (saw) said "i am free from what Khalid did".

So the Prophet (saw) distanced himself from Khalids (ra) actions in that particular event - but not distance himself from Khalid Bin Waleed (ra) himself who was a proven war leader - nor did he slander him.



I think im beginning to understand your position on this.

You dont care about the hundreds of thousands of Muslim women and children he saved - but you do care about the 300 that died in Russia as thats what you keep refering too.

If you dont care about Muslims - our brothers and sisters who are being slaughtered and raped like animals for the last decade - then i cant say im too interested in what your opinion is.

You must be from one of the Arab countries, they all seem to support Russia too

I am comenting about something that I do know about thank you very much. Mistakes are ok when it is a mistake,but this was too much, this involved children that should be left out of violent disputes. How dare you say that I dont care about muslim women or children! You should watch what you say, as you are speaking now as a liar about me. I care about all the children everywhere and I dont care if they are muslim or not, I love em all! and any country, all kids are precious and should never be brought into a violent dispute like this and used like this.

You must be from one of the Arab countries, they all seem to support Russia too

This is a very racist thing to say and I think that a mod should speak to you about being a racist in the forum. I too dont think I am very interested in your opinion as well, as I don't like racist opinions that think it is ok to harm some children just because they are different from you.

Originally Posted by Chechen

Wait you expect me to be sad when a Russian kafir soldier ,who slaughtered muslim brothers and sisters, dies? I may be wrong and I hope to be wrong but you seem to support the kafir more than your muslim brothers and sisters because here you are defending kafirs who slaughtered thousands of your brothers and sisters. You're sitting here bashing Basayev when you obviously know nothing about him. You're defending people who have killed 300 000 people and complaining about people who killed 300 people even though they weren't the ones that killed those people. And I have all the right to love my country and protect it, there's nothing bad about that. You are the first person from who I ever heard this from. Allah made me a Chechen and a muslim and I thank him for that. If that is wrong then please prove it to me because this is the first time I hear this in my life.

It seemed as if you were saying any russian life was not worth as much as any chechen life, but if you were only speaking of soldiers then I was wrong. You should watch your words just as chechnya should watch his words as you are now lying about me. I mourn the loss of all the innocent kids, chechens AND russians and muslim AND not muslim kids, all of them. You say I am defending kafirs that slaughtered thousands of my brothers and sisters, but they are only kids, how did they slaughter thousands? Thats rediculous. and I am only telling the truth about basayev, you are only defending him because of your nationism that is not even aloud in islam. You say that it is the first time you heard that nationism is not allowed in islam? Are you a recent convert? If so, then you should research this.
You need to know that I do not support kafirs slaughtering the thousands of brothers and sisters, but I absolutely do not support muslims slaughtering kids either. It doesn't make it ok just because muslim kids got killed, all the kids, russians, chechens, muslims and not muslims, should be left alone, and not brought into these violent disputes.

Forget it sister, these guys think it is ok to harm the children that are non-muslim or non-chechen. If you attempt to say anything against this, they immediately equate this with defending the killing of chechens. They can't seem to make a key connection in thought. That connection is that a person might not approve of what happened in Beslan, and also care about children being killed in Chechnya.

Originally Posted by SilentObserver

Forget it sister, these guys think it is ok to harm the children that are non-muslim or non-chechen. If you attempt to say anything against this, they immediately equate this with defending the killing of chechens. They can't seem to make a key connection in thought. That connection is that a person might not approve of what happened in Beslan, and also care about children being killed in Chechnya.

True. Just glorification of child killers. A true hero.

I am comenting about something that I do know about thank you very much. Mistakes are ok when it is a mistake,but this was too much, this involved children that should be left out of violent disputes. How dare you say that I dont care about muslim women or children! You should watch what you say, as you are speaking now as a liar about me. I care about all the children everywhere and I dont care if they are muslim or not, I love em all! and any country, all kids are precious and should never be brought into a violent dispute like this and used like this.

Im only going by what you said - you said you dont care about what Shamil has done so i assumed you were not bothered that he saved hundreds of thousands of women and children from a brutal genocidal war.

Surely even you must see this is a praiseworthy act? How many Muslim Leaders in todays world have accomplished that?

None.

As for mistakes - i dont think you are in any position to judge what is a mistahe and what isnt. Beslan was a mistake since Shamil never realised that the Russians would go ahead and kill the children instead of negotiating an end to the killing of Chcehn children.

He admitted his mistake and offered to die for it - again i have to ask you, what more did you want him to do???

As i said to you even Khalid Bin Waleed (ra) made some very bad mistakes in war and killed innocents - is he too like George Bush now?
The Prophet (saw) distanced himself from the action and not the person - who showed regret at his actions - we should do the same.

Thats rediculous. and I am only telling the truth about basayev, you are only defending him because of your nationism that is not even aloud in islam.

Im NOT Chechen - but since i know much about him i have to defend him - he was a great man.

Nothing to do with nationalism. Shamil wasnt even fighting for nationalist reasons but Islamic reasons.

You say that it is the first time you heard that nationism is not allowed in islam? Are you a recent convert? If so, then you should research this.

Bro Chechen isnt even being nationalist - he supports the ISLAMIC resistance movement and thats what the Rebels are - not nationalists. They established an Islamic state at the end of the last war by 1999

Just before the second war Chechnya was almost fully an Islamic state - one of the very few in existence in the world today - so i think the brother has a right to show love for his Islamic nation and their love for the deen.

but I absolutely do not support muslims slaughtering kids either

I dont think anyone does

This is a very racist thing to say and I think that a mod should speak to you about being a racist in the forum. I too dont think I am very interested in your opinion as well, as I don't like racist opinions that think it is ok to harm some children just because they are different from you.

One last thing - i forgot to answer this.

Racist? You either didnt understand what i said or have purposely mis-interepreted my words to make some kind of silly point.

Mid-East countries in general DO support Russia. Lol only a couple of weeks ago our good friend Vladmir Putin went on a quick tour of the Mid-East to meet his good friends.

Whats so racist about stating the obvious?

Arab countries support Russian mass-murderers. Simple.

Arab people of course are a different matter and i know they wouldnt support the genocide of a Muslim nation and that their governments dont represent their views.

Arab brothers have fought in Chechnya, Kashmir and elsewhere - sacrificed their lives - if you would think i would say anything bad about them, then think again.