What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.

Originally Posted by alcurad

salaam
both sides share the blame.although obviously the russians bungled it badly from the start, and agree that it was them who killed most of the hostages,saying it was unintentional would just be like saying basayev didnt know he was putting children in the crossfire because he didnt think the russi's would do whatever they did.

still , basayev's death does'nt really make it worse for the chechens. they had several prominent field commanders like basayev , and they quarelled among each other to the point where they actually hampered the jihad.
with many of them now out of the picture though, the chechens can unite behind a single figure (i think its kadyrof now, im not sure so correct me if im wrong)since the reason the masses resent the invaders(murder,rape,...etc) remain.

I agree with you that Basayev was a little responsible and he even offered to go on any international trial and answer for his mistakes but to say that it's entirely his fault, now that's wrong. And actually his death was a big blow but Chechnya isn't 1 man it's a nation of brave warriors ready to die for their country and religion. And there were no arguments over who is going to take his place because before his death he said he had chosen a someone who will take his place and who is exactly like him but still a little young. And Kadyrov isn't the guy since he is a traitor who works with the Russians and all the Chechens hate him so him taking Basayev's place would be a little shocking lol.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.

Nah it's not Islam that's the problem it's Putin and his controlling of the media. When Yeltsin was president the only good thing about him was that on Russian TV he allowed people to show what they want and it was free. That's why people showed the horrors that happened in Chechnya and saw videos of their soldiers dying in battle. So people were shocked and knew what was happening that's why they wanted to stop the war. But now Putin controls the media VERY strictly and before showing something on TV or writing an article in the newspaper it has to go throught the FSB ( Russian secret services) who would decide if it would be allowed. And putin has people believe that the war is over and that everyone is happy and the country is being rebuilt. That's why people in Russia don't want to stop the war since they think there is no war. Otherwise there is another part who know the war is still going on but they imagine Chechens as savages so they want them all to be killed and then a small number of people who actually know what's happening and try to stop the war and you see what happens: they get killed or thrown in jail. That's also another problem cause there are people who know what's heppening but they're too scared to say anything against Putin cause they could end up dead or in jail.

The Chechen people who have been involved in rebellion are unjustified in their attacks. How about that school full of innocent children? Were they spared from this civil war?

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

Originally Posted by SATalha

Why wont Russia just allow the Chechens to form their own Nations?

Such a naive question.... it is very uncommon for big nation (especially those considering themselves to be "empire") to let little nation chose their faith. Russia has lost a lot of land after 89. They don't to loose any more - not in such a important places like Caucasus.

Chechen - to be frank i feel...-let's say-... uneasy about your signature, about this part with drowning people in blood

Originally Posted by duskiness

Such a naive question.... it is very uncommon for big nation (especially those considering themselves to be "empire") to let little nation chose their faith. Russia has lost a lot of land after 89. They don't to loose any more - not in such a important places like Caucasus.

Chechen - to be frank i feel...-let's say-... uneasy about your signature, about this part with drowning people in blood

First of all what you explained is correct and about my signature it means that if the Russians kill us all then let them die along with us

Seeing posts that glorify people like Shamil Basayev, to me, are as disgusting as suggesting we should award the Medal of Honor to James Barker.

Originally Posted by Chechen

The rebels captured the school but they never killed anyone in it.

Lies made up by shameless liars.
The very first thing those heartless b******s did was kill the fathers of children, right in front of the children.

You make them out to be some kind of saints. They captured and took hostage a school full of small children. They killed fathers in front of children. They terrorized these children, refused them food or water. When the shooting did begin, they shot hostages as they ran away.

The words of one of the children at Beslan;

So the terrorist said,"If you don't keep quiet, I'll kill this man". A terrorist with a beard pointed his gun at the man's temple... and shot him.

No killing huh? Not a terrorist? Imagine the emotional and mental scarring done to this child. The terrorist has made the child feel as if he was to blame for the man's death.

Another child, a small girl says;

There was one girl, her mobile rang. She hadn't thrown it away... so they shot her.

A young boy takes a cameraman on a tour;

It was here that they killed my dad. Then they took his body... and threw it out the window.

You can try and cover up with these lies, but the world knows the truth. It is disgusting and revolting that anyone would try to find justification for what those dogs( Basayev and his thugs) did to those children.

For those of you that can, view the documentary entitled "Children of Beslan".

Originally Posted by SATalha

Why wont Russia just allow the Chechens to form their own Nations?

Because doing so would possibly lead to more 'members' of the 'federation' wanting sovereignty.

This the Russians are fighting hard to avoid.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.

It is silly to think the Chechen people should separate from Jihad.

It should fight jihad correctly and not kill non-combatants.

"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you..."

I think most of the fighting in that rigion involves the Army anyways. The Beslan incident was on-off. The appartment bombings i believe where the FSB, anyone that wants to investiage the bombing is silenced or killed.

Originally Posted by imaad_udeen

It is silly to think the Chechen people should separate from Jihad.

It should fight jihad correctly and not kill non-combatants.

"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you..."

The reason I said the Chechens should distance themselves from "Islam jihad" is because they were accomplishing alot on the PR front during the time of Boris Yeltsin. The Russian people overwhelmingly viewed the Chechen conflict as a war for independence. After the introduction of foreign "jihad" fighters and the acts of terrorism that brought with it, the Russian people changed their views. Now they believe Russia is fighting a war against terrorists and baby killers. The only way to stop that mentality is to regain the moral high ground. Unfortunately, Beslan has given Russia the moral high ground for the forseeable future.

A member of the Russian parliamentary commission for investigation of the hostage crisis in Beslan has published a report confirming that the Russian terrorist organization FSB had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school with children and that no child was ever killed by the Mujahideen.



The Novaya Gazeta newspaper published the report titled "Beslan: Hostages' Truth" by Urii Saveliev, a scientist specializing in physics of explosions. The author reported that the first two blasts in the school, which killed most of the hostages, were caused by the explosive projectiles fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the street. In other words, it proves the information provided by Mujahideen that the blood bath in the Beslan school was caused by a deliberate action of the Russian secret service FSB.



The report is based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches and calculations.



The first blast on the garret of the seized school was caused by a Russian shot from the 'Smel'(Bumblebee) rocket flamethrower at 01:03 pm local time. The second blast occurred in 22 seconds and was caused by the explosion of the assault grenade also launched by Russian invaders. Russian killers stormed the building almost immediately after the blasts.



The explosion caused a conflagration, which started at approximately 1:05 p.m. local time. An order to extinguish the fire was given almost two hours later at 3:10. The Russian terrorists shot at all the rooms of the school with shells, tanks and other weapons. Most of the hostages, who were able to escape from the building were killed by Russian shots from the outside of the school. Saveliev reports more than 300 hostages were transferred from the gym to other rooms, about 110 of them were killed by the Russian shooting.



The report is 700 pages long and includes over 300 photos.



The siege of Beslan's School Number One began on September 1, 2004. Three days afterwards the armed FSB gangs stormed the school killing 371 people, including 31 Muahideen who sacrified their lives protecting children from Russian terrorist murderers .

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/.../28/5434.shtml


There are even Russians who claim that the FSB killed the children in the school. And just a few days ago I read that the deputy of the State Duma from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Jury Ivanov claimed that he had information which proved that the FSB were responsible for the death of the children.

Originally Posted by Chechen

A member of the Russian parliamentary commission for investigation of the hostage crisis in Beslan has published a report confirming that the Russian terrorist organization FSB had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school with children and that no child was ever killed by the Mujahideen.



The Novaya Gazeta newspaper published the report titled "Beslan: Hostages' Truth" by Urii Saveliev, a scientist specializing in physics of explosions. The author reported that the first two blasts in the school, which killed most of the hostages, were caused by the explosive projectiles fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the street. In other words, it proves the information provided by Mujahideen that the blood bath in the Beslan school was caused by a deliberate action of the Russian secret service FSB.



The report is based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches and calculations.



The first blast on the garret of the seized school was caused by a Russian shot from the 'Smel'(Bumblebee) rocket flamethrower at 01:03 pm local time. The second blast occurred in 22 seconds and was caused by the explosion of the assault grenade also launched by Russian invaders. Russian killers stormed the building almost immediately after the blasts.



The explosion caused a conflagration, which started at approximately 1:05 p.m. local time. An order to extinguish the fire was given almost two hours later at 3:10. The Russian terrorists shot at all the rooms of the school with shells, tanks and other weapons. Most of the hostages, who were able to escape from the building were killed by Russian shots from the outside of the school. Saveliev reports more than 300 hostages were transferred from the gym to other rooms, about 110 of them were killed by the Russian shooting.



The report is 700 pages long and includes over 300 photos.



The siege of Beslan's School Number One began on September 1, 2004. Three days afterwards the armed FSB gangs stormed the school killing 371 people, including 31 Muahideen who sacrified their lives protecting children from Russian terrorist murderers .

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/.../28/5434.shtml


There are even Russians who claim that the FSB killed the children in the school. And just a few days ago I read that the deputy of the State Duma from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Jury Ivanov claimed that he had information which proved that the FSB were responsible for the death of the children.

Oh but of course....the brave "mujahideen" died protecting the children from Russian terrorists! That is why they took over the school...to protect the children! We've all been fooled to believe the brave "mujahideen" intended those children harm! Thanks for this. This changes everything.

Okay, can we get back to reality now?

Originally Posted by Keltoi

Oh but of course....the brave "mujahideen" died protecting the children from Russian terrorists! That is why they took over the school...to protect the children! We've all been fooled to believe the brave "mujahideen" intended those children harm! Thanks for this. This changes everything.

Okay, can we get back to reality now?

Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.