Originally Posted by Chechen

Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

The "mujahideen" rigged the gym with explosives. Seems they planned much more than to "scare" Putin. As for your stories from "Beslan mothers", perhaps you would do better to hear from the children themselves. Anyone who watched "Children of Belsan" has a pretty good idea what went on inside that school. Revisionist history isn't going to help the Chechen cause. They must come to term with what occurred in their name and attempt to win back the moral high ground.

Originally Posted by Keltoi

The "mujahideen" rigged the gym with explosives. Seems they planned much more than to "scare" Putin. As for your stories from "Beslan mothers", perhaps you would do better to hear from the children themselves. Anyone who watched "Children of Belsan" has a pretty good idea what went on inside that school. Revisionist history isn't going to help the Chechen cause. They must come to term with what occurred in their name and attempt to win back the moral high ground.

They put explosives, filmed it and had the video passed to Putin to scare him. And the mothers of Beslan organisation is of mothers who were at Beslan and lost their child there and they accuse Putin and the FSB for the murder and say that the Chechens aren't the ones who should be pointed at. And about the movie Children of Beslan I haven't seen it and don't intend on wasting my time watching propaganda films which have one goal: bring hate against Chechens and it's working perfectly well. When the appartment bombings happened Putin accused the Chechens and at the time everyone thought it was Chechens who did it and now the truth came out and everybody knows those were explosions organised by the FSB and the truth about Beslan will come out at some point too. Sooner or later it will come out just like the appartment bombings.

Originally Posted by Chechen

They put explosives, filmed it and had the video passed to Putin to scare him. And the mothers of Beslan organisation is of mothers who were at Beslan and lost their child there and they accuse Putin and the FSB for the murder and say that the Chechens aren't the ones who should be pointed at. And about the movie Children of Beslan I haven't seen it and don't intend on wasting my time watching propaganda films which have one goal: bring hate against Chechens and it's working perfectly well. When the appartment bombings happened Putin accused the Chechens and at the time everyone thought it was Chechens who did it and now the truth came out and everybody knows those were explosions organised by the FSB and the truth about Beslan will come out at some point too. Sooner or later it will come out just like the appartment bombings.

I might buy the propoganda excuse if the "Children of Belsan" documentary was produced by a Russian company, but of course it wasn't.

As for blaming Putin and the Russian military for the disaster at Beslan, I agree the decisions made during that event were horrible on the part of the Russian authorities. There is a pattern of really bad decisions when it comes to anti-terrorist operations by the Russian special forces. I'm sure they do share part of the blame for the death toll. However, the terrorists inside that school were murdering people from the moment they entered.

Originally Posted by Chechen

Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

What a pack of disgusting, deceitful, wretched lies.

You know full well that they killed children's fathers immediately when they took the school.

It was here that they killed my dad. Then they took his body... and threw it out the window.

It is disgusting and sick that anyone would attempt to justify this savage attack on children. You should be ashamed.

You can try and cover up with these lies, but the world knows the truth. It is disgusting and revolting that anyone would try to find justification for what those dogs( Basayev and his thugs) did to those children.

You keep mentioning lies told by people about what happened as if it were truth. Why don't you do as I suggested a number of times and see what the children that were held hostage have to say? Do you have the courage to face the truth? You know that children will tell the truth. So, do you have the courage to hear what they say? Or are you afraid of what you might learn?

If you develop the courage, remember the name, "Children of Beslan".

Originally Posted by Chechen

They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it

I dont think Putin ordered the Russians to "kill everyone in it" [the school].

But the point is, he shouldn't have even been in position to do it, the Chechens stepped out of bounds by storming a school filled with children.

the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

I would like to see documentation of that.

BESLAN MOTHERS: PUTIN IS CULPABLE

MOSCOW – Shamil Basayev is Russia's Osama bin Laden. Yet as Beslan prepares to mark the one-year anniversary of the school siege he engineered, many of the victims' mothers are increasingly laying blame for the September massacre not on Mr. Basayev, but on Russian authorities.

They are stoking controversy by demanding that top leaders, including President Vladimir Putin, stay away from this week's service to commemorate the 331 victims, half of them children, who perished in the Sept. 1-3, 2004, terrorist attack. Their accusations have been fueled by leaks from two still-incomplete investigations, and evidence presented at the ongoing trial of the sole surviving terrorist, Nurpashi Kulayev. Both have raised sharp doubts about the official version of events.

Witnesses at Mr. Kulayev's trial have testified that Russian security forces, using flame-throwers and tanks against a school holding more than 1,000 hostages, may have been responsible for many deaths.

Others have fingered corrupt officials and inept police officers for allowing the terrorists to drive across a heavily guarded border and seize a school in the center of a large town.

"We want all those who are responsible to face justice," says Roza Sidakova, a spokesperson for the Beslan Mothers group. Ms. Sidakova lost her 9-year-old daughter when security forces stormed the school on Sept. 3.

The mood of disbelief is not confined to victims' families. A countrywide poll conducted last month by the Moscow-based Public Opinion Foundation found that only 15 percent of Russians expect the official investigation, headed by Alexander Torshin, the deputy speaker of parliament's upper house, to get to the bottom of what happened in Beslan.

Another 20 percent think the commission will discover the truth, but keep it secret.

"The reaction of the mothers of Beslan is a manifestation of the profound distrust many Russians are feeling toward the authorities," says Yevgenia Albats, a political scientist at the Moscow Higher School of Economics. "This is because the authorities have covered the truth about those events of a year ago in a thick layer of lies, which contaminates everything."

The official version holds that on Sept. 1, 32 terrorists linked to Basayev, a Chechen warlord, drove in a hijacked military-style truck from the neighboring republic of Ingushetia, evaded many police checkpoints, and occupied Beslan School No. 1. They took about 1,200 children, parents, and teachers hostage in the school's gym, which the terrorists festooned with makeshift explosives.

On the third day of the crisis, one of the terrorists' bombs accidentally detonated, prompting security forces to launch an ill-prepared 10-hour assault that succeeded in saving most hostages.

According to officials, security troops took all possible precautions to protect civilians, but hundreds of casualties occurred when the gym's roof, set alight by terrorist bombs, came crashing down.

But this picture is challenged by mothers - and many witnesses at Kulayev's trial - who say there were at least 50 attackers, many of whom escaped. The terrorists made use of weapons and supplies that had been prepositioned in the school, suggesting an inside job, they said. Kulayev testified that the first explosion resulted when a Russian sniper killed one of the hostage-takers who was holding down a bomb-detonator with his foot.

Kulayev's trial has brought stunning revelations. Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Nikolai Shepel was forced to admit that "Shmel" flame-throwers were used in the assault, after local mothers found several launch tubes and submitted them to the court. Mr. Shepel insisted the weapons fired only fuel-air explosives that day, rather than the incendiary napalm grenades they are also designed to use, and thus could not have caused the gym fire that killed most of the hostages.

But Stanislav Kesayev, who heads an investigation set up by North Ossetia's parliament, says that traces of napalm were found by medical examiners.

"As the days go by, we see that the testimony of Kulayev and other information coming out at the trial is producing a very different view of what happened," he says.

Under pressure from the mothers, Russian authorities also admitted that two T-72 tanks fired several cannon rounds into the school during the battle on Sept. 3, but say they did not shoot at the gym where hostages were held.

Mr. Kesayev says that his local probe, which Russian officials have denounced as "illegal," has been unable to establish who was in command of the security operation at Beslan. "We can't even say who was giving the orders," he says. "There is a general feeling here that Kulayev will be convicted, and that will be the end of it."

The head of the Moscow-based parliamentary investigation, Mr. Torshin, told the newspaper Izvestia this week that the Beslan mothers are acting from emotions and "not being logical" in their accusations against Russia's leadership. "The fact that this open trial [of Kulayev] is taking place shows that the authorities are not interested in keeping secrets," he said.

For Mr. Putin, whose popularity has been sliding for several months, the challenge posed by the Beslan mothers has been an embarrassment. The Kremlin last week countered by inviting the women to talk with Putin in Moscow on Friday, in the midst of the Beslan memorial services.

Susanna Dudiyeva, head of the mothers' group, says the women resent the timing of the summons, but, "We shall go to Moscow, overcoming our pain and offense," she told the online newspaper Gazeta.ru. "We will ask our questions, and we expect to hear answers."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0829/p06s01-woeu.html

A few days before the second anniversary of the Beslan massacre, a Russian lawmaker and explosives expert said Monday, August 28, that Russian forces had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school before the hostage-takers were able to detonate their bombs.



"The first explosion in the gymnasium of the Beslan school on September 3, 2004, was the result of a shot from a rocket-propelled grenade," Yury Savelyev, a member of the parliamentary commission investigating Beslan, told Echo Moscow radio, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).



This could have been fired by "the security forces," he said. "This could have been an accidental shot, or it could have been ordered."



The report comes a few days before the second anniversary of the tragedy in which 331 people, including 186 children, died in the September 1-3 siege at a school in the southern Russian town.



Most of the deaths occurred during the chaotic rescue attempt on the last day.



Chechen commander Shamil Basayev, who was recently assassinated by Russian forces, had claimed responsibility for the hostage-taking but blamed the bloodbath on President Vladimir Putin.



"The Kremlin bloodsucker destroyed and injured 1,000 children and adults, having given the order to storm the school for imperialist ambitions," he daid after the carnage.



"The storming was initiated by Russia's security services."



Savelyev has produced a 700-page report based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches, and calculations.



He concluded that the disastrous battle on September 3 was not sparked by the explosion of two bombs from the hostage-takers, as most officials insist, but two powerful rocket-grenades.



One of the two rockets was a highly destructive incendiary device that set fire to the gymnasium, leading to many of the casualties, said the MP.



Many more died when other parts of the school came under fire from tanks, rocket-propelled grenades and other heavy weapons, he added.



The rockets were fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the besieged schoolhouse, Savelyev averred.



A majority of the parliamentary commission has decided in contrast to Savelyev that the bloody battle was triggered when two bombs set by the hostage-takers exploded, forcing special forces to launch an all-out military assault.



The head of the commission, Parliament's upper-chamber vice-speaker Alexander Torshin, said last year that the hostage-takers set off the initial explosions and that the rocket-propelled grenades could not have started the deadly gymnasium blaze.



The commission, however, has since repeatedly delayed publishing its final report.



Savelyev insisted that "not one of the official versions is supported by science."

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/.../29/5438.shtml


Now you've got the Chechens side who claim that the children were killed by Russian forces, you've got the Beslan Mothers organisation who were at Beslan, you've got people like this Yury Savelyev who even give scientific proof and Russian politicians like Jury Ivanov. Now even the Russians themselves are accusing their government for the murder of the children.

assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Originally Posted by Chechen

A few days before the second anniversary of the Beslan massacre, a Russian lawmaker and explosives expert said Monday, August 28, that Russian forces had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school before the hostage-takers were able to detonate their bombs.

Bombs? I do hope you don't mean the ones in the gym. You know, the gym where all the innocent hostages were kept? The hostages that were taken to "scare" Putin. Those hostages.

If the rebels wanted to scare Putin, why not take some of HIS men hostage? The civilian population is not the enemy. If I know that, there's no way a seasoned veteran rebel leader doesn't. Me thinks they wanted to scare the civilians. Me thinks their real purpose was to do what the U.S. did in WWII to the Japanese--incur so many civilian casualties that the civilians will demand the government surrender.

Strange...In class, we discussed an Ashanti proverb: One falsehood spoils a thousand truths. That seems to ring true, as I'm becoming against the Chechen rebels because of Beslan. Not their call for independence, just the way they do it. Like the U.S.'s way of "liberating" people.

Originally Posted by Dawud_uk

assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Ameen brother. May Allah ease the suffering of every muslim.

Originally Posted by Dawud_uk

assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

Ameen brother. May Allah ease the suffering of every muslim. But don't worry all of this is just a test. This life is a test. Insha Alah we'll be rewarded in the afterlife.

Argued with the kafirs over this many times so i cant be bothered to go over that again - just gonna reply to muslim comments

"Yet I do not believe that history will remember Shamil Basayev primarily for Beslan"

Yes it will, except in extremist circles.

Bro imaad_udeen - sorry to say but your talking rubbish

firstly what is an "extremist"?

and would only an "extremist" remember shamil basayev for his 15 year fight against russian oppression instead of just concetrating on a mistake he made in Beslan.

I believe the quote of Ahmed Zakayev is correct - history will remember Shamil Basayev for his brilliant military ability which included re-capturing grozny from the russians - a feat that remains the best operation carried out by modern day mujahideen anywhere in the world.

Im not talking about "western" history of course - im talking about where it matters which is the north caucaus and the muslim world.

Originally Posted by Chechnya

Argued with the kafirs over this many times so i cant be bothered to go over that again - just gonna reply to muslim comments



Bro imaad_udeen - sorry to say but your talking rubbish

firstly what is an "extremist"?

and would only an "extremist" remember shamil basayev for his 15 year fight against russian oppression instead of just concetrating on a mistake he made in Beslan.

I believe the quote of Ahmed Zakayev is correct - history will remember Shamil Basayev for his brilliant military ability which included re-capturing grozny from the russians - a feat that remains the best operation carried out by modern day mujahideen anywhere in the world.

Im not talking about "western" history of course - im talking about where it matters which is the north caucaus and the muslim world.

Good strategy. Don't respond to the "kafirs". The "kafirs" are likely to believe that the slaughter of children is an unforgivable offense. Perhaps Muslims call it a "mistake", but the "kafirs" call it cold-blooded cowardly murder. Terrorism will never lead to Chechen independence, only more death and mayhem on both sides.

Originally Posted by Count DeSheep

Bombs? I do hope you don't mean the ones in the gym. You know, the gym where all the innocent hostages were kept? The hostages that were taken to "scare" Putin. Those hostages.

If the rebels wanted to scare Putin, why not take some of HIS men hostage? The civilian population is not the enemy. If I know that, there's no way a seasoned veteran rebel leader doesn't. Me thinks they wanted to scare the civilians. Me thinks their real purpose was to do what the U.S. did in WWII to the Japanese--incur so many civilian casualties that the civilians will demand the government surrender.

Strange...In class, we discussed an Ashanti proverb: One falsehood spoils a thousand truths. That seems to ring true, as I'm becoming against the Chechen rebels because of Beslan. Not their call for independence, just the way they do it. Like the U.S.'s way of "liberating" people.

You think the rebels never took Russian soldiers hostage? Of course they did they're not idiots. Once they took a big group of Russian soldiers hostage and Putin didn't want to save them. The rebels asked to exchange the soldiers for the innocent Chechen civilians that the Russians kept in concentration camps. Putin didn't want to at the end the rebels felt pity for the Russian soldiers and let them go but told them that the next time they caught them they would kill them. Putin killed his own children and not the rebels. If they let go adult Russian SOLDIERS then why wouldn't they let a bunch of children go. They just said that if the Russians stop the genocide in Chechnya then they'll let everyone go they never suspected that anyone could be barbaric enough to kill his own children.

Putin killed his own children and not the rebels.

How do you sleep at night?