Originally Posted by Cognescenti

Fair enough. I hereby state I should have said, to be cautious, "some cases" instead of "many cases". Still, public perception is what it is. You can't will it away.

I don't remain silent in the face of falsehood, no matter what the public thinks. Clarifying misconceptions can and does change public perception. Once upon a time the public perceived the black race to be inferior to the white race. You wouldn't ridicule or dub 'politically correct' the people who challenged that perception would you?

I agree that peace-loving Muslims (in the West) are "unfairly" tarnished by a violent few (that is if we don't count sympathies for the attackers ).....but it does no good to simply stomp one's feet.

So now I'm stomping my feet? Did anyone ever tell you you have a bad habit of belittling people you disagree with? And what's with the speech marks?

If you knew me as a person, you'd know that I'm very well integrated into British society, thank you very much, without the need to fly a Union Jack from my trousers. You've simply assumed that because I'm Muslim, I must be some sort of stubborn beardy bloke who refuses to fit in, sympathises with terrorists and whinges a lot without actually doing anything.

Let's say I cant get a date because I have hair growing out of my ears. Do I blame women because of their insensitivity to the natural effects of testosterone? After all, its not my fault. Or do i pluck out the hairs?

Which strategy is likely to succeed? Confrontation or compromise?

You do what you want - you make your own choice. You might decide to pluck out the hairs. You might decide that you want to find someone who accepts you as you are without passively aggressively blaming society in the process. You might decide to wear earmuffs. Whatever floats your boat.

A better example would have been, 'should the entire Italian-American community have to prove they are law-abiding citizens because of the actions of the Mafia?', in which case I would have answered 'of course not. If they wish to prove their loyalty by joining the Army or the police force, that's their prerogative, not a requirement of citizenship'.

As I've said above, if people wish to fly flags, that's their prerogative. I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied. Like I said, I've not seen British churches, synagogues, hindu temples, gurudwaras or mosques flying the Union Jack, nor would I expect them to. If the owners of such buildings decide to fly flags, fair enough, it's their choice.

Originally Posted by Muezzin

I don't remain silent in the face of falsehood, no matter what the public thinks. Clarifying misconceptions can and does change public perception. Once upon a time the public perceived the black race to be inferior to the white race. You wouldn't ridicule or dub 'politically correct' the people who challenged that perception would you?.

Full speed ahead on clarifying misconceptions. More power to you. I reject your analogy to racism, however. That is only superficially vaild.

Originally Posted by Muezzin

So now I'm stomping my feet? Did anyone ever tell you you have a bad habit of belittling people you disagree with? And what's with the speech marks?

If you knew me as a person, you'd know that I'm very well integrated into British society, thank you very much, without the need to fly a Union Jack from my trousers. You've simply assumed that because I'm Muslim, I must be some sort of stubborn beardy bloke who refuses to fit in, sympathises with terrorists and whinges a lot without actually doing anything.

I made no such assumption. In fact, it was not my intent to suggest that you were guilty of the behavior. I did say "one's" feet, which was a rare display of grammatical correctness for me. If I meant you, I should have said "your", correct? If I was unclear, I apologize.

What does "whinges" mean?

A better example would have been, 'should the entire Italian-American community have to prove they are law-abiding citizens because of the actions of the Mafia?', in which case I would have answered 'of course not. If they wish to prove their loyalty by joining the Army or the police force, that's their prerogative, not a requirement of citizenship'.

As I've said above, if people wish to fly flags, that's their prerogative. I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied. Like I said, I've not seen British churches, synagogues, hindu temples, gurudwaras or mosques flying the Union Jack, nor would I expect them to.

Good example with the Italian-American thing. Note that those biases were largely erased through integration into the broader culture...to a alesser extent through public information campaigns.

If Muslims in Australia chose to reject the good Doctor's advise..so be it. I am merely stating I think he may be onto something.

BTW ...re this:

I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied


Who exactly implied that???

Originally Posted by Cognescenti

Full speed ahead on clarifying misconceptions. More power to you. I reject your analogy to racism, however. That is only superficially vaild.

How so?

I made no such assumption. In fact, it was not my intent to suggest that you were guilty of the behavior.

I apologise for being oversensitive in that case.

I did say "one's" feet, which was a rare display of grammatical correctness for me. If I meant you, I should have said "your", correct? If I was unclear, I apologize.

I misunderstood you. Thank you for the clarification.

What does "whinges" mean?

I believe 'whinge' is slang exclusive to Britain, and means 'to whine'

Good example with the Italian-American thing. Note that those biases were largely erased through integration into the broader culture...to a alesser extent through public information campaigns.

This is true. People tend to forget that the majority of Muslims are pretty well integrated though.

If Muslims in Australia chose to reject the good Doctor's advise..so be it. I am merely stating I think he may be onto something.

That's fine. I think he may be onto something too. However, I've (probably overzealously and hyperbolically) expressed my opinion that it should not be a requirement.

BTW ...re this:

I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied


Who exactly implied that???

It was unfair for me to use the word 'impied'. Rather, I inferred from ManchesterFolk's message that he regarded it as a requisite. I probably misunderstood however.

This is true. People tend to forget that the majority of Muslims are pretty well integrated though.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Cognescenti

.....................

What does "whinges" mean?..........

I

hello,
One got the impression from reading your posts that you knew it all.

any how
whinge intr.v. Chiefly British. , whinged , whinging , whinges . To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

Ma'asalaama (it means "go in peace", so pleace don't start a crusade, jihad or holy war against me)

well... all mosques in Malaysia have Malaysian flags flown in the compound area along with state flag and malaysian muslim flag (green flag with white crescent on the middle)...

I've seen Malaysian flags being flown on the churches and temples compound too...

Originally Posted by snakelegs

i think it would be inappropriate for any religious building to fly a national flag.
in islam, which takes a strong stand against nationalism, it would be even more so.

You've hit the nail on the head, completely agree. We can't promote nationalism in anyway as Muslims and the only loyalty we have is towards Allah(SWT).

Originally Posted by WnbSlveOfAllah

You've hit the nail on the head, completely agree. We can't promote nationalism in anyway as Muslims and the only loyalty we have is towards Allah(SWT).

Funny how some people keep repeating this Mantra over and over ad infinitum. I have, now, heard it so many times that it makes my old head spin. (they are waiting for a khilafah before they protect the countries that protect them)

One hindu loving mullah type called those of us in Pakistan army --that repelled the night time sneak attack on Pakistan in 1965-- secular dogs

Hang on a minute, isnt 'loyalty' only supposed to be to Allah and Islam. We dont have to show loyalty to a country, especially a non-muslim one. I dont know about these people, but to be quite honest, it doesnt surprise me.

Originally Posted by Woodrow

I believe for a Mosque to fly a national flag would be wrong.

......it gives the impression that the Mosque is a servent of the nation.

You don't understand the issue. Some mosques around Sydney fly the Lebanese flag.

Some Muslims suggested that the Australian flag ought to be flown as well.

-

Originally Posted by Joe98

You don't understand the issue. Some mosques around Sydney fly the Lebanese flag.

Ah okay. In that case, all flags should be taken down!

Originally Posted by NoName55

hello,
One got the impression from reading your posts that you knew it all.

any how
whinge intr.v. Chiefly British. , whinged , whinging , whinges . To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

Ma'asalaama (it means "go in peace", so pleace don't start a crusade, jihad or holy war against me)

Nice rabbit punch there, oh nameless one.

Any how..thanks for the definition. You needn't worry about any war based on religious dogma from me. I think we are more likely to see the Pope, The Archbishop of Canterburry and the Dalai Lama all convert to Islam before I take up the sword in the name of God.

Originally Posted by Joe98

Some mosques around Sydney fly the Lebanese flag.

That's weird..... does it mean that the mosque is only for Lebanese worshippers?

I was under the impression that Lebanon is considered a Christian Country. Why Would a Mosque fly the Lebannese flag?

Originally Posted by Skillganon

Well, I hope the muslim in australia are not so stupid to do such an act.

Using statement like "this idiot did it so I am allowed to be an idiot too." is not an excuse.

I don't think it is very nice of you to say that a brother is an idiot just because he wants to fly a flag. Big deal. It's not something worth being so nasty about.