I am prepared to stick my neck out here and incur the wrath of my fellow Muslims. This is an argument I have repeatedly with other Muslims.

Please read again the verses that Karimeldib posted.

Chapter 5 verses 55-57: Those who establish regular prayer - surely christians and jews establish regular prayer? I do not imagine as a practicing Christian or Jew you would mock other religions (of course you would not agree with them but I doubt you would mock).

Chapter 60 verse 4: "unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone". Of course I can't make an argument with this and I do not agree with your belief that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God but I imagine as a Christian you think Jesus (pbuh) is a part of God and you are therefore only believeing in God?

I am ashamed that I do not have my Quran on holiday with me to give you an accurate quote so I hope Allah will forgive me for paraphrasing. In the Quran Allah tells us that had He wished He could have made us all one nation and one religion and on the day of judgement He will tell us the difference between us. Allah therefore wanted us to be different nations, colours, religions, etc so why should we mere mortals use this as a means of hatred? When Muslims wish to make the argument that we should not accept each other they will use the same verses from the Quran, as Christians use small parts of the bible and Jews small parts of the Torah to make their argument.

Please believe me that the Quran does teach tolerance when read as a whole and the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) taught tolerance during his time as a prophet. Any religious book can be used by people to make their argument, if they just quote small pieces but Allah intended us to be different and it is my personal belief that when we have to answer for our actions at the end of our time here, how we treated people that are different from ourselves will be a big issue. Only Allah can judge us for our beliefs and actions.

I believe that there is only one God, Allah and that Mohammad (pbuh) was his final prophet. As a muslim I cover my hair and wear a dress that covers all of my body, I never drink alcohol (it would lead me to forget Allah) and I do numerous other things to please Allah. It is my choice and my right to believe this and my duty to defend my religion, as it is your choice and right to believe in Christianity and Brother Karimeldib's right to have his beliefs but my personal opinion is that we can discuss, learn about others beliefs and be tolerant whilst not losing anything of our ourselves or our beliefs.

I truly hope I have not offended anyone, from any religion, with these views but it is a subject I feel so strongly about.

Please read the new thread titled "Egyptian christians defend headscarf".

salam

If only more people could see things this way

We must continue to talk nicely with people through sites such as these and maybe one day we will be able to all live in peace together.

peace be upon you sister:
Allah the Great and Almighty said:"To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a Law and an Open Way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute"(The Table Spread:48)

truly .. I don't know why your words make me cry.
I am really agree with you .. I feel that our religion give us ALL the solution of the world problems .. but we throw it away.
don't be surprise .. I want to tell you some thing If you want to know exactly what is Islam don't LOOK to us.
If you really try to find the truth .. If you really Love your God and Creator
ask him to lead you to the straight way, and said:" Show me the straight way,The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose is not wrath, and who go not astray."
try to read Quran with your heart and try to understand every word in it.
may God bless you and make from his pious servents .. AMEEN

Mr MTAFFI: maybe this site could help you : http://www.noblequran.info/
Peace.

I hope this happened very soon Insha'allah.

Salaam Alaykoum sister. Thank you for this, I was sure I had read this in the Quran, why do so many Muslims fail to see this?

When I read the Quran the things that I remember are about tolerence and peace, because in my heart I want people to be tolerant and peaceful. Others read the Quran and remember the verses which reflect what is in their hearts. I wonder if it possible to read the Quran without your heart pointing you in one direction or another? Perhaps this is another test by Allah?

Wow...a thread that is actually positive and constructive.

I wish more people could adopt this outlook. Just imagine if the world was united against suffering of all kinds. Not much to say, in our hearts most of us know the right path. It isn't about what you call yourself, it is about how you live your life.

very important point, thank you Mr. keltoi

peace

peace be upon every one here:

Episode 2:

In the name of Allah,the All-Merciful, the Ever-Merciful. Peace and blessings of Allah be upon Prophet Muhammad All Prayers and Blessings of Allah be upon him.

Let me welcome you all and let us continue our "Call for Coexistence"

To remind ourselves, coexistence means how to understand, communicate, and respect each other even if we disagree; how to build bridges, instead of barriers.

Our intention is to reduce the rates of divorce, eliminate misery, enhance dialogues, and to approach this generation and to protect them from addiction and extremism.

we aim at fulfilling this verse that can be translated as, "so be pious to Allah, and act righteously among yourselves (Or: make a reconciliation after differences)" (TMQ[4], 8: 1). Our intention is to make the believer friendlier and easier to get along with. "Surely the believers are only brothers; so make a reconciliation between your two brothers" (TMQ 49: 10). The Prophet (SAWS) has warned us that there is no goodness in those who are not friendly towards others.

Our goal is to make Islam revered throughout the world. Our disrespect towards each other made the west regard us as barbarians who are unable to communicate. How can this be when our religion and our Qur'an call for coexistence and dialogue?

Coexistence does not mean dissolving in the other party and erasing the identity of our youth, as the West wants us to. Muslims living in the west should coexist with their societies without losing their Islamic identity so that they can give a working example on the greatness of Islam.

I made an extensive research to find an anecdote about coexistence derived from our history. Why resort to examples from other countries or cultures when we have ample examples in our history. There is no problem of course in benefiting from others’ experiences, but let us take this opportunity to show the truth about Islam.

We shall focus on the four Imams.


Why the four Imams?

One might wonder what the four Imams have to do with coexistence.

As a matter of fact, they are the leaders of coexistence, communication, dialogue and civilization in Islamic history, or even in the history of humanity.

Another reason that I chose them is that they lived in an era similar to the present era. It was an era of freedom and renaissance of all fields, the Abbasid and the end of the Umayyad ruling, the days of Harun ar-Rashid.

During their time there were cultural invasions on Muslims. See how related this point is?

How could the four Imams coexist without dissolving, when many other cultures, including Greek, Roman, and Persian cultures began to mix with Islam?

It was also a period preceded by conflict, the one which took place between Ali Ibn-Abu-Taleb and Mu'aweya Ibn-Abu-Sufyan. We shall see how they tackled this issue.


The four Imams and Islamic jurisprudence:

The four Imams lived during the time when Islamic jurisprudence was being formed.

At their time, the Prophet All Prayers and Blessings of Allah be upon him and his companions May Allah be pleased with them had died and had left us the Qur'an, whose ayahs are around 6000, and the sunnah[Prophet’s traditions]. The incidents, however, are unlimited through the history of humanity. How then could they extract solutions from the limited resources?

This is what jurisprudence is all about. It means finding solutions for people's problems covering all issues, in the light of the Qur'an and sunnah: in marriage, divorce, dealings, people's relationships with each other, the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims, the role of the governor towards the citizens, worship, etc. Jurisprudence is one of the greatest and most important Islamic sciences.

The four Imams are pioneers in this field. Each one of them had his own way of thinking and philosophy. They differed in large issues, yet they loved and respected each other.

Do you realize now the reason behind choosing the four Imams?

It is because they are a unique outstanding example of coexistence, dialogue, and listening to the other, and accepting them.



What are the distinguishing traits of the four Imams?

There were other jurists who were more learned than the four imams, but the schools of the four imams outlived them all. The reason they succeeded is that they were capable of coexisting with others. The four Imams coexisted with their previous and following generations. Thus they passed their knowledge on to the next generation, and their students spread it; so their knowledge was destined to last. Contrary to Abu-Hanifa, other scholars like al-Laith Ibn-Sa'ad of Egypt, did not do this. This was the reason why their ideas didn't reach us. Imam ash-Shafi'y said about him that he was more learned than Malik, yet his companions failed him as they did not pass their knowledge on to the next generation.

Abu-Hanifa selected four of the poor students whom he foretold to be brilliant and gave them scholarships. He has introduced the concept of scholarships, long before it was known in Europe. Among his students was Abu-Yusuf, who later became the supreme judge of the Islamic world.

We are far from doing this nowadays and hence all the brilliant youth migrate to the west.

We have to lead the next generations to success. Instead of tormenting young talented employees in our companies, let us encourage them and give them a real chance.

Another reason for their success is that they were flexible. Flexible people know how to coexist with others. They traveled a lot and got in contact with people. Furthermore, they lived in main, capital cities. If you are isolated, then you cannot succeed. The Prophet taught us that the Muslim who interacts (i.e. coexists) with people and is patient in enduring their harm is better than the Muslim who does not interact and hence is not harmed by them. Although they sometimes disagreed with the rulers, yet their relationship with the rulers never reached the extent of clashes. They were not hypocrites, as well. Thus their knowledge was not banned.

The four Imams benefited millions of people. Imam ash-Shafe’i introduced a new idea of how deductions in any science should have fixed rules. He established the method of logical thinking. Later on, Ibn-Rushd in Andalus (Spain) was influenced by this method. Europe benefited from Ibn-Rushd, and hence, indirectly from ash-Shafi'y. He should have won the Nobel Prize, as he was the first to introduce the method of logical thinking.

The four Imams had something original to introduce to people. Thousands of students attended Ibn-Hanbal's lectures in Baghdad for 10 years. How was that? Anyone who has some ideas or thoughts will run out of them after some time. He must have had exceptional abilities in coexisting with people. Also Imam Malik died at the age of 78. He kept giving lectures for 60 years.



A brief introduction about the four Imams


Let us make it in the form of an identity card.


First - Place of birth and residence:

Two imams were born in Iraq, Abu-Hanifa in Kufa and Ahmed Ibn-Hanbal in Baghdad. The other two lived in al-Higaz: Malik was born in Madinah, and ash-Shafi'y was born in Gazza, Palestine, but at the age of three he went to live in Makkah. As we can see, all of them lived in main cities.



Second – Origin:

Two imams were of Arab origins: Ash-Shafi'y, of course, whose ancestor relates to the Prophet, as he was from Quraysh, and Ibn-Hanbal who was from the tribe of Banu-Shaiban, a renowned tribe. The other two were of non-Arab origins. Abu-Hanifa was of a Persian origin, whereas Malik's ancestors were slaves, set free at the beginning of Islam.

This is a significant point in coexistence. How could the Arab society accept people of non-Arab origins to be the leaders in jurisprudence? You see how much Islam has changed the way people used to think? Nowadays in our societies, two different social classes cannot coexist with each other. People are classified according to their nationalities, their passports, and their wealth.


Chronology:

First is Abu-Hanifa, being born in 80 A.H, then Malik, Ash-Shafi'y, and the last one, Ahmad Ibn-Hanbal.

Each of them was a student of the other. Ahmad Ibn-Hanbal was a student of ash-Shafi'y and in turn, ash-Shafi'y was a student of Malik’s. Ash-Shafi'y and Ibn-Hanbal were students of the disciples of Abu-Hanifa: The first was a student of Muhammad Abul-Hassan, and the second was of Abu-Yusuf. All of them were interrelated and they all respected each other.


Financial situation:

Two of them were rich, and two were poor, lest anyone might think that coexistence is limited to one standard of living.

Abu-Hanifa was very wealthy; he was a successful merchant. He used to wear expensive suits. Malik liked to be elegant and well-dressed. The poor students were the dearest to Abu-Hanifa. Ibn-Hanbal and ash-Shafi'y, though poor, were courted by royalty, as they were able to deal with all classes.


Physique:

All of them were handsome tall guys. Malik was a blond man with blue eyes. Ash-Shafi'y was dark-skinned and very handsome as well.


Books:

Three of the four imams wrote books but one did not. Ash-Shafi'y wrote his ideas in a book entitled "Ar-Resala", Ibn-Hanbal wrote "Al-Musnad", and Malik wrote "Al-Muwatta'". Abu-Hanifa chose a rather different approach. He used to hold meetings with his students and what the majority agreed upon was then written down.

Some other great scholars stopped their lectures and joined Abu-Hanifa to help him,

for they saw it was more beneficial for Islam. Therefore when you think of the concepts of team work, focus group and brainstorming, remember that Abu-Hanifa was the one who pioneered these concepts in the year 80 A.H.

Our main topic is coexistence; may be we can save one soul in Iraq with these words. May be somebody in Lebanon will decide to reconcile with his enemies. May be somebody in Darfur remembers the Prophet's teachings which emphasize that Muslims are one nation, equal in respect of blood and even the weakest or the least important of them is entitled to give protection on behalf of them. The discrepancy between the Prophet's saying and reality is painful, but we are still optimistic.


How long did they live for?

They lived long. The only one who died rather young was ash-Shafi'y, at the age of 54. Imam Malik kept on giving lectures for 60 years in the Prophet’s mosque. He started at the age of 17 years until he died at the age of 77.

How could they sustain the admiration and respect of the public for all these years? Knowledge, though necessary, is not the only reason. There must be other factors such as charisma, the ability to tolerate others, to deal with people, and to listen to others. Abu-Hanifa once wrote "I learned from a barber five issues in jurisprudence I had not known before."


Their Fame:

One of the secrets behind their success is that they were role models. They practiced what they preached and they were great worshippers. Thousands of people attended Malik’s lectures in ar-Rawda. He used to teach students from 3 different continents and 3 generations. Wherever ash-Shafi'y went, thousands of people gathered around him. It was said that nobody, apart from the rightly guided Caliphs, was as famous as ash-Shafi'y and Ibn-Hanbal at that time.

In the meantime, they were sometimes harmed, beaten and imprisoned. When in prison, Ibn-Hanbal used to say, "My funeral and yours will tell the difference between us". His funeral was attended by thousands of people; all the roads were blocked. Abu-Hanifa was imprisoned and tortured when he refused to accept the post of supreme judge at the time of Caliph al-Mansour. This was because the latter intervened with the work of the judges for the sake of his interests.


Women in the imams’ lives:

Ibn-Hanbal's mother was a young widow of 25 who refused to marry after his father's death. Ash-Shafi'y's mother told him that she had vowed him to learning, so that he might unite the nation. Malik's mother guided him to this path. His daughter too played a significant role in correcting the students’ mistakes during the lessons.

One of Malik's tutors was a woman, Aisha Bint-Saad Ibn-Abu-Waqqas, the daughter of the great companion who conquered Iraq. When ash-Shafi'y came to Egypt, he went to learn from Lady Nafisa, the granddaughter of the Prophet (SAWS). Abu-Hanifa had a special place for women among his 30 disciples to help him in his juristic opinions.

Abu-Hanifa’s mother used to think of him merely as her own child. She once made a vow and wanted to change her mind about it. She refused to follow his opinion, and decided to consult Zur'a al-Qas; a worshipper, not even a jurist. Abu-Hanifa obeyed her and offered to accompany her to that man. He sent to Zur'a a letter telling him how to answer his mother's question. He answered her by what Abu-Hanifa told him and she accepted it!


Their talents:

Besides jurisprudence, the four Imams were also talented in other fields. Ibn-Hanbal had the talent of penmanship. Ash-Shafi'y was a talented poet.


Finally, I would like to ask Muslims who live in the west to integrate with their societies and to be proud of their origins. I am asking people of Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon to learn from our history. Let us all spread coexistence among us. I have a plea, let not the "Call for coexistence" be a one-sided dialogue. Send your comments and experiences on the website www.amrkhaled.net.



Thank you so much. May Allah’s Peace be upon you all

Mariam thank you so much for your post, I was so moved reading it. I hope some of the people on this site (Muslims and non-muslims) who have hate in their hearts and demonstrate it in their posts read this and take example from the four Imams. It deeply saddens me that some people of all faiths would take the blessed words of Allah (from all of the books) and twist them into an excuse for hatred and exclusion. Perhaps we should all reflect on the reason that we Muslims are taught such greetings as As Salaam Alaykom.