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    1. #1
      My Jesus, mercy!
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      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      I have heard that Muslims are forbidden to play with dice. Apparently there is a hadith of Sunan Abu Dawud where the Prophet SAWS says "He who plays with dice will be deemed as a person thrusting his hands in pig's blood." There is another hadith by Malik that says "He who plays with a dice has disobeyed Allah and His Messenger."

      Is this condemning the use of dice in all contexts, or just in gambling. At the time of the Prophet SAWS board games didn't exist, so dice were just used for gambling. Is interpreting this hadith to condemn dice in board games being too legalistic?

      However, an Islamic sotre that stocks the board game "Mecca to Medina", which uses a dice, states that Mufti Desai has said that dice are okay. However, IslamOnline.net states the following: "Imam Shafi`i and other Muslim scholars (the majority of them) have taken this hadith as evidence to condemn games using a dice."

      Does this mean that playing Monopoly (which I love) is haram? What if a spinner is used to determine the random number instead, or what if an electronic die is used?

      What do you do when two statements by two scholars contradict each other?

    2. #2
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
      However, an Islamic sotre that stocks the board game "Mecca to Medina", which uses a dice, states that Mufti Desai has said that dice are okay. However, IslamOnline.net states the following: "Imam Shafi`i and other Muslim scholars (the majority of them) have taken this hadith as evidence to condemn games using a dice."

      What do you do when two statements by two scholars contradict each other?
      is there no other game you can play? im sure there are many other good games to play, try chess. i think it's better to stay away from those kind of games!
      do you know who Imam Shafi is and who Mufti Desai is?

    3. #3
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by islamic View Post
      is there no other game you can play? im sure there are many other good games to play, try chess. i think it's better to stay away from those kind of games!
      do you know who Imam Shafi is and who Mufti Desai is?
      can you tell us who they are?

    4. #4
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by NoName55 View Post
      can you tell us who they are?
      I can for Imam Shafi, but for the other one I don't know, that's why Im asking the person who opened the thread to tell me if he knows.
      Last edited by islamic; 10-27-2007 at 07:15 PM.

    5. #5
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by islamic View Post
      is there no other game you can play? im sure there are many other good games to play, try chess. i think it's better to stay away from those kind of games!
      do you know who Imam Shafi is and who Mufti Desai is?


      Sorry brother, your reply is irrelevent. Michael asked a question about a specific types of games and your reply does not answer his question. Also what if I say that chess too should be avoided because it takes too much time and concentration! Do you know that chess was banned in Iran in 1979 after the islamic revolution claiming that it encourages gambling, warmongering, and inattention to the five ritual prayers?

      Anyway, back to the original question, as far as I know, playing games with dices are not haram as long as you are not engaged in any illigal or haram activities. A dice is just a small square sized object and nothing else. How can it be haram? In that sense a lot of objects can be regarded as haram (even the computer or internet you are using because millions of people are addicted to it and using these for pornography and other haram activities. Regarding the hadiths mentioned, it is very important to understand the context in which those hadiths were described. In those days people used to play games with dices for gambling purposes which caused injustice and unrest in the society. Thus, as far as I know, gambling was described haram in those hadiths and not the dice itself and Allah (swt) knows best.

      Jazakallah Khair

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      brother kh@led, welcome to this forum :-)
      That was my opinion, my thinking, I don't have much knowledge on this problematic.
      Thank you for the information about banning chess in Iran, I didn't know that.
      As I can understand, it's said from some that is haram to avoid possible haram things that are around this type of play.
      kh@led.

    7. #7
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      brother kh@led, welcome to this forum :-)
      That was my opinion, my thinking, I don't have much knowledge on this problematic.
      Thank you for the information about banning chess in Iran, I didn't know that.
      As I can understand, it's said from some that is haram to avoid possible haram things that are around this type of play.
      kh@led.


      Its ok bro I understand what you mean. Actually, I myself cannot guarantee that what I said is absolutely right. What I said was what I knew and I believe the explanation makes sense. There are lots of confusions/questions in many matters in islam and in fact in my humble opinion, many imams are responsible for that. Some people say to go to an islamic scholar and follow what his says because he is a scholar in this subject. Personally, I do not agree to this and instead of following any imams lecture blindly, I like to at least try to think about their explanations on any issue. Because Allah (swt) has given us brains and he has told us to seek knowlegde and I strongly believe that in islam, there is nothing illogical. Therefore, any explanantion on any issue has to be consistant, rational or logical. Also, if the words of any islamic scholar or imams are absolutely right then there wouldn't have been so many differences in their opinions! Every scholars opinion would have been unanimous!!!

      Anyway, to err is human. May Allah (swt) forgive us for our mistakes and lead us to the correct path. Ameen.

    8. #8
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by islamic
      im sure there are many other good games to play, try chess
      Assalamo alaikum. Chess is also haram:
      Did not our master, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) say:

      "He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine" (Sahih Muslim: Kitab Shair)

    9. #9
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by Talha777 View Post
      Assalamo alaikum. Chess is also haram:
      Did not our master, Hazrat Muhammad Mustafa (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) say:

      "He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine" (Sahih Muslim: Kitab Shair)
      pls akhi you'll forgive me, I am not familiar with this hadith at all.
      If you can give me some biography on who Mohammed mustafa is and which compendium of Muslim text this came from, I'd be truly grateful.

      I have been playing chess for quite some time, and believe it an excellent tool to make you have some wise planning, anticipation of the moves of another as well as generally being sharp.

      I tried to read up on history of chess before replying to this but opinions seem to be varied on when it was first invented. Thus I am a little confused as to whether this is a hadith or a fatwa?

      thank you in advance for clarifying and jazaka Allah khyran

      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice

      Text without context is pretext
      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      pls akhi you'll forgive me, I am not familiar with this hadith at all.
      If you can give me some biography on who Mohammed mustafa is and which compendium of Muslim text this came from, I'd be truly grateful.
      No problem. First of all, Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is the Messenger of Allah. I think you know who he is, you might of gotten confused when I called him by his title Mustafa (the chosen one). Mustafa is one of the titles of the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) which I call him by out of affection for him.

      The hadith which I have posted is quoted in Sahih Muslim.


      I tried to read up on history of chess before replying to this but opinions seem to be varied on when it was first invented. Thus I am a little confused as to whether this is a hadith or a fatwa?
      No my friend, this is no fatwa, it is an authentic hadith from Sahih Muslim, narrated on the authority of Buraida's father (radhi Allahu anhu):

      Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine. (Sahih Muslim: Book 28, No. 5612)

      I hope this helps. Jazakumullah.

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Are there any hadiths or quran verses that ban gambling in general?

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      It does.. thank you, I really appreciate the effort.
      Jazaka Allah khyran
      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice

      Text without context is pretext
      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


    13. #13
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
      Are there any hadiths or quran verses that ban gambling in general?
      Yes, gambling is a great evil and it has been prohibited in the Holy Quran itself:

      O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
      (Al Maidah 5.90)

    14. #14
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by Talha777 View Post
      No my friend, this is no fatwa, it is an authentic hadith from Sahih Muslim, narrated on the authority of Buraida's father (radhi Allahu anhu):

      Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine. (Sahih Muslim: Book 28, No. 5612)

      I hope this helps. Jazakumullah.


      Is this hadith translated properly? Because on the islamtoday website they have the hadith like this:

      The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Whoever plays Nardashâr, it is as if he immersed his hand in swine’s flesh and blood.” [Sahîh Muslim]


      http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...&main_cat_id=1

      And they defined Nardashâr as blackgammon, not chess....

      And they also had an article about chess and did not mention that hadith at all...

      http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...&main_cat_id=1

      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


    15. #15
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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      salam alaikum

      Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine. (Sahih Muslim: Book 28, No. 5612)
      ^^this translation is found in "The Hadith Software" program made by Islamasoft Solutions
      same thing MSA site

      Playing Chess
      Chess is a very popular game, and the opinion of jurists concerning it varies. Some consider it halal, others makruh, and still others haram. Those who consider it haram cite some ahadith in support of their position, but researchers have proved that chess did not appear until after the death of the Prophet (peace be on him), thus all such ahadith must have been fabricated.

      The Companions of the Prophet (May Allah be pleased with them) themselves held differing views about playing chess. Ibn 'Umar said that it is worse than backgammon and 'All regarded it as gambling (perhaps meaning when it is played for money), while some others merely expressed disapproval of it.

      However, some Companions and some of the second generation scholars allowed it. Among these were Ibn 'Abbas, Abu Hurairah, Ibn Sirin, Hisham bin 'Umrah, and Sa'id bin al-Musayyib. We agree with these great jurists, since the original principle is the permissibility of acts and no text is to be found prohibiting it. Moreover, in addition to being a game and a recreation, chess is also a mental exercise which requires thought and planning. In this respect it is the opposite of backgammon, for while backgammon is a game of chance and therefore comparable to divining with arrows, chess is a game of skill and strategy which may be compared to archery.

      However, playing chess is permissible only if the following three conditions are met:

      1. One should not get so absorbed in it that he delays his salat; chess is well-known to be a stealer of time.
      2. There should be no gambling involved.
      3. The players should not utter obscenities or vulgarities.
      If any of these conditions are not met it should be considered as haram.
      Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'Whosoever plays chess, it is as though he soiled his hands in the blood of swine.' (Nasbur-Raayah Vol.4 Pg.274).

      The prohibition is general. However, chess and games of its like are generally addictive and in addition to it are a complete waste of valuable time.

      And Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

      Mufti Ebrahim Desai
      Last edited by NoName55; 11-05-2007 at 07:05 AM.

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Sob7an Allah akhi.. you are fa3il khyr.. I just emailed someone about this but got the response in Arabic which is basically what you have posted above.. I wasn't sure how to go about translating it part in red is of particular interest:

      حَدَّثَنِي زُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ عَنْ سُفْيَانَ عَنْ عَلْقَمَةَ بْنِ مَرْثَدٍ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ بُرَيْدَةَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ
      أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ مَنْ لَعِبَ بِالنَّرْدَشِيرِ فَكَأَنَّمَا صَبَغَ يَدَهُ فِي لَحْمِ خِنْزِيرٍ وَدَمِهِ



      قال القرطبي : « رُوي عن مالك ، في قوله تعالى : { فَمَاذَا بَعْدَ الحق إِلاَّ الضلال } قال اللَّعبُ بالشطرنج والنَّرد من الضلال ، وسئل مالكٌ : عن الرَّجُل يلعبُ في بيته ، مع امرأته بأربعة عشرة ، فقال : ما يُعْجِبني ، ليس من شأن المُؤمن ، قال - تعالى - : { فَمَاذَا بَعْدَ الحق إِلاَّ الضلال } ، وسئل مالكٌ : عن اللَّعبِ بالشطرنج ، فقال : لا خَيْرَ فيه وهو من الباطل ، واللَّعبُ كلُّه من الباطل » .
      وقال الشَّافعيُّ : « لاعب الشطرنج ، وغيره - إذا لم يكن على وجه القمار - لا تُرَدّ شهادتهُ إذا كان عدْلاً ، ولمْ تظهرْ منه ريبةٌ ، ولا كبيرةٌ ، فإن لعب بها قُماراً ، وكان معروفاً بذلك ، سقطت عدالتُهُ ، لأكله المال بالباطل ، وقال أبُو حنيفة : » يُكرَه اللعب بالشطرنج ، والنَّرد ، والأربعة عشر ، وكل اللَّهْو فإن لم تظهر من اللاَّعب بها كبيرةٌ ، وكانت مساوئه قليلة ، قُبلتْ شهادته « .
      قال ابن العربي : » قال الشَّافعية : إنَّ الشطرنج يخالف النَّرد ، لأنَّ فيه إكدار الفكر ، واستعمال القريحة ، وأمَّا النَّرْد : فلا يعلم ما يخرجُ له ، فهو كالاستقسام بالأزلام « . وأنَّ النَّرد هو الذي يعرفُ بالباطل ، ويعرف في الجاهليَّة بالأزلام ، ويعرف أيضاً بالنَّردشير ، وروي أنَّ ابن عمر ، مرَّ بغلمان يعلبُون بالكجَّة ، وهي حُفَر فيها حصى ، يلعبُون بها ، فسدَّها ابنُ عمر ، ونهاهم عنها .ذكر الهروي في باب الكاف مع الجيم ، في حديث ابن عبَّاس : في كل شيءٍ قمار ، حتى في لعب الصبيان بالكُجَّةِ ، وقال ابن الأعرابي : » الكجَّة هي : أنْ يأخذ الصبيُّ خرقةً ، فيدورها كأنَّها كُرةً ثم يتقامرُون بها «
      .






      -----Original Message-----
      From: PurestAmbrosia
      To:
      Sent: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 4:29 pm
      Subject: is this hadith authentic


      Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: He who played chess is like one who dyed his hand with the flesh and blood of swine. (Sahih Muslim: Book 28, No. 5612)
      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice

      Text without context is pretext
      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      قال الشَّافعية
      according to Imaam Shaafi shatranj/chess is allowed conditionally!

      howzat for a summary?


      Last edited by NoName55; 11-05-2007 at 05:11 AM.

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by NoName55 View Post
      قال الشَّافعية
      according to Imaam Shaafi shatranj/chess is allowed conditionally!

      howzat for a summary?


      i played chess 2.5 yrs and gots lot of rewards.
      i was n still am a international rated player of bangladesh.
      i do not play chess last 4-5 years.

      i was getting shocked to read this thread.
      but at the end i got sum relief.
      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Here i am, God! i'm at your service

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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice


      Quote Originally Posted by NoName55 View Post
      قال الشَّافعية
      according to Imaam Shaafi shatranj/chess is allowed conditionally!

      howzat for a summary?


      An excellent one akhi.. Jazaka Allah khyran
      I appreciate everyone's effort... When I hear something for the first time, I like to verify it from a few sources, which I think is the best method for all of us insha'Allah

      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice

      Text without context is pretext
      If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him


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      Re: Islamic ruling on playing games with dice




      regarding chess:

      chess as we know it today did not exist 1400 years ago, "world" chess is around 6-700 years old.

      whatever version is referred to in the hadeeth, if it is in fact referred to, is probably was whatever was current in India.

      Xiangqi, commonly known as "Chinese chess[NOT checkers]" is far more widely played than the western version. i bring this up because the folks i know from Thailand and Vietnam ONLY play for money and it is most definitely considered a form of gambling. so MAYBE that is a reason for it to be considered haram. MAYBE...

      (although Xiangqi is much more fun than chess as it is a slightly less rigid game with alot fewer opening moves, a river in the middle of the board, a castle that the king cannot leave and cannons that need to jump over a piece in order to capture a more distant one))

      2cents

      Islamic ruling on playing games with dice

      Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire
      http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

     

     
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