Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

No because that would be discrimination against obese adulterers.
.....

Assalamu alaikum bro
Did you Joke?

That is rare

Ansar took me my surprise with that reply. But, that is a very serious answer.

We know that Allah(swt) is all just and that he would not establish any ruling that would not equaly apply to all people. That ruling of escaping punishment would not be available to obese people who would be unable to out run the law enforcers. Therefore it would be an unjust rule. If it is unjust to even one person, it does not sound like a ruling that Allah(swt) would have sent down.

Originally Posted by Trumble

It shouldn't. No matter how much you try and consider other views and different cultural perspectives, stoning is a Dark Age barbarism that has no place in any modern civilized society.

Not at all. It is a punishment in line with the crime. Also refer back to Ansar Al-'Adl's posts for an explanation of why it this is more of a scare tactic to keep the people from sinning, it is very hard to convict a person.

Originally Posted by glo

Yes.
I don't know if there are any countries where it is still practiced ...

I can't help but be reminded of this story:
Quote:
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." (John 8:1-11)

Peace

according to the christian belief jesus 'GOD' said : If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
.. Was he the same person who had send moses with the Law ? Who said in mathew :5/ 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished



another question : was there a person after moses without a sin ... if there wasn't, then to whom was the law of stoning ?

peace

Assalamu Aleykum guys,

Originally Posted by bin saladin

according to the christian belief jesus 'GOD' said : If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
.. Was he the same person who had send moses with the Law ? Who said in mathew :5/ 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished



another question : was there a person after moses without a sin ... if there wasn't, then to whom was the law of stoning ?

peace

Bro, as I said, please if you want to bring topics up do so in the comperative section.

Originally Posted by Muslim Woman

I did not find any verse on stoning in holy Quran....instead there is lashing punishment mentioned in Sura .... most probably Nur.
So, because of 1 or 2 hadith why should we think , stoning to death is a must ? Why we don't give them a chance to repent & come back to Islam ?

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

If you want to know whether the legal status of hadeeth is the same as Qu'ran please make a thred in an appropiate section.

And thanks guys,

I think that I should get a rep point because I did create a thred in which Ansar actually made something which was or might have been a joke!

Originally Posted by Al Habeshi

I think that I should get a rep point because I did create a thred in which Ansar actually made something which was or might have been a joke![/COLOR][/B]

i agree!

actually the whomever is without sin shbeal is a nice addendum that wasn't said by Jesus..

anyhow, in light of the Iranian woman to be stoned much to Sarkozy's naked wife's protest (funny they are so concerned about one woman but don't seem to care for millions others, whether Muslims/Gypsies or whatever but I digress) and an intervention from the Vatican, I thought I'd re-bump this thread!

Salaam / Peace

If anyone missed the news , here it is.

Vatican: stoning in Iran adultery case 'brutal'

By FRANCES D'EMILIO (AP) – 6 hours ago

VATICAN CITY — The Vatican raised the possibility Sunday of using behind-the-scenes diplomacy to try to save the life of an Iranian widow sentenced to be stoned for adultery.
In its first public statement on the case, which has attracted worldwide attention, the Vatican decried stoning as a particularly brutal form of capital punishment.


Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi said the Catholic church opposes the death penalty in general.
It is unclear what chances any Vatican bid would have to persuade the Muslim nation to spare the woman's life. Brazil, which has friendly relations with Iran, was rebuffed when it offered her asylum.
Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani was convicted in 2006 of adultery. In July, Iranian authorities said they would not carry out the stoning sentence for the time being, but the mother of two could still face execution by hanging for adultery and other offenses.
Her son, Sajad, told the Italian news agency Adnkronos that he was appealing to Pope Benedict XVI and to Italy to work to stop the execution.
Lombardi told The Associated Press that no formal appeal had reached the Vatican. But he hinted that Vatican diplomacy might be employed to try to save Ashtiani.
Lombardi said in a statement that the Holy See "is following the case with attention and interest."
"When the Holy See is asked, in an appropriate way, to intervene in humanitarian issues with the authorities of other countries, as it has happened many times in the past, it does so not in a public way, but through its own diplomatic channels," Lombardi said in the statement.
In one of the late Pope John Paul II's encyclicals in 1995, the pontiff laid out the Catholic Church's stance against capital punishment.
John Paul went to bat in several high-profile cases of death-row inmates in the United States. One of the first was the case of Paula Cooper, who was convicted of murdering her elderly Bible teacher when she was 15 but spared the electric chair by Indiana in 1989.

But that same year, a papal appeal for clemency to Cuba to spare a war hero and three other Cuban officers convicted of drug trafficking from the firing squad went unheeded.
Meanwhile, Italy's foreign minister, Franco Frattini, told the ANSA news agency that while Italy respects Iranian sovereignty and isn't in any way interfering, "a gesture of clemency from Iran is the only thing that can save her."


Italy has strong economic ties, primarily energy interests, in Iran.
Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...SLVSwD9I1SR682

stoning is wrong

i mean the punishment was there for its time

there are better and more humane methods out there

Originally Posted by Al-Yasa

stoning is wrong

i mean the punishment was there for its time

there are better and more humane methods out there

Stoning is not wrong, so long as people commit primitive ancient crimes, the punishment remains the same, that being said, I'd recommend you read the thread in totality and see if the conditions are actually met for such a punishment to take place.. in fact in accordance to Islamic jurisprudence it is almost impossible to prove such a crime unless those committing it choose to fornicate in public in plain eye view to multiple witnesses!

A person who is married and committed adultery is subjected to this punishment, right? Will he/she will be subjected to the eternal punishment as well even if the person is punished here according to the Sharia law?

And, can a community practice these laws in a democratic or secular country...

Originally Posted by abdulmājid

A person who is married and committed adultery is subjected to this punishment, right? Will he/she will be subjected to the eternal punishment as well even if the person is punished here according to the Sharia law?

And, can a community practice these laws in a democratic or secular country...

No he or she will not be subjected to punishment for that sin in hereafter. And if she or he ask forgiveness the Allah (swt) can also forgive.

Does Sharia law exist in democratic or secular country? (You will find the answer to be NO then the community can't practice this.)

Also punishments are only carried and issued out by the state not the community (or family members or tribes). Muslims are prohibited to take the law into their own hands. Like idiots (honour killings which is a vile crimes that cannot be justified) that has already taken the law into their own hands as a result costing innocent people lives.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-killing.html

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...llings/3738477

This is common sense, why ask this question? Thinking of stoning anyone?

Plus four witnesses are needed from four different angles actually seeing penetration.

Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl

To apply this punishment you need four witnesses to the actual act of penetration who observed it from four different angles and if there is even the slightest contradiction in the most minute details of their testimony, they are punished with eighty lashes for false accusation of adultery. Thus, the implementation of the hadd punishment for zina is a practical impossibility.

What more do I say? How would 4 people see such a crime? How would anyone do such a crime in the open??

Originally Posted by abdussattar

What more do I say? How would 4 people see such a crime? How would anyone do such a crime in the open??

To add penetration and four angles? Pssh

I think more people are questioning it because punishment is being carried out unjustly.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/12871

^^^I dont know if that was done unjustly. I read the couple ran away and they were caught but didn’t admit to adultery and I also read another version. Nevertheless, this did occur and the Taliban confirmed it. And disgustingly the local celebrated it.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/af...216476354.html
^^^This is true. This was 13 years old who was raped by these men (who order and stoned her). She then went to police station to report the crime. Some of the police happen to be the men that raped her. Hence: why they accuse her of adultery. Btw her family confirmed she was never married! So how can she be stoned when she was never married?

See why people are now questioning it. It is because people are applying the law wrongly. The woman in Iran is innocent according to Shariah. She did not confess nor was even one witness let alone four.

The majority of Muslim scholars insist that such an interpretation misses the point of the basic nature of shariah, which is intended to be related to context and carefully applied.

Originally Posted by sweet106

Like idiots (honour killings which is a vile crimes that cannot be justified)

I thought honor killings can be justified, earlier. Personally, I would not tolerate if my sister elopes with a kaffir. What am I supposed to do then, eh?