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Does a world exist outside our brains ?

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    nocturnalman's Avatar Limited Member
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    Does a world exist outside our brains ?

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    S.A ,

    as I said in my first thread ,I want to keep sharing things I read about ,because some of them upset me and I would like to hear the opinion of the forum community here.
    What I will be writing about now is the topic that is cooking my brain the most.
    I am sure some of you have already read somewhere that we experience the world through our brains ,and what we see and feel only exists in our brains.
    That means we you look at a tree ,you merely see an imagine of the tree created by your brain through impulses received by your eyes and transmitted to the brain.It is like watching a movie
    on TV ,what you see in the TV is just an image created by electrical particles hitting on a special screen to create an image.

    Scientists say that it is a scientific fact that reality is inside our brains ,and quantum physicists go further by saying that it is our minds/consciousness that creates reality ,and some even claimed that
    if no one is looking at the moon ,it cannot be said that moon is existing.But Allah has clearly said in the Quran that he created the universe before anyone was there.So it means reality or the world exists outside our brains
    without anyone having to experience it.The world is not just made of images created in our brains ,experienced by our souls.It is there ,independent of any living being.
    There is even a person called Harun Yahya who has a website and several articles regarding this matter.One of his articles is called "Matter ,another name for illusion".In that article here quotes several Scientists talking about he issue.
    I have done further research and found out that he actually copied most of the article from another website and added words of the Quran to proof what we are reading is true.
    One of his strongest arguments is that if we were to look so deep inside an atom ,we would find that it is 99.99% empty space , which means the whole universe is 99.99% empty space or what he said "nothing".
    While there is no doubt that Allah can created the whole universe as we see it consisting of almost nothing ,I cant accept the fact that many well known scientists say that everything we see is nothing ,it is just an illusion.

    I know that what we humans know about the universe is almost close to nothing and that scientists develop theories ,and theories dont mean that what they say is true.
    They say what we actually see and experience is just a copy of our brains of what is outside our brains and we will never be able to know whats really there outside our brains.
    Some muslims might say yes this life is only a deception or illusion because the quran said that dont let this life fool you.But I dont think that what is meant by this is that everything around us is an illusion ,it just
    means that we humans think that we can life happy forever and that whatever we reach in material gains is the ultimate goal but we forget that this all is going to end one day.
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    nocturnalman's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    sorry I forgot to mention that in the theory mentioned above ,the brain that does the processing is considered part of the so called illusion or image ,which would actually mean that only our souls exist.
    Please note that I am in no way a supporter of any ideas ,I just do the reading and ponder about everything ,because by nature I am a very curious person and I do find happiness in reading.
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    happymuslim's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    You see when people think to deep they swim in there own heads and don't get a complete answer. We don't see the world through our brains in that sense. Everything is there. It's just how our eyes interpret the things around us and show them to us inside our minds rather then the thing existing in of itself. If I look at a chair it's there because I'm looking at it. The light reflects off the chair enters my mind and is transferred into an image. Just because I look away doesn't mean it's gone. Say walking backwards and happen to bump into the chair hence it's there weather I'm looking at it or not. You said that some people don't even believe the moon is there if your not looking at it. Well we know that the moon is responsible for the waves on the ocean. If we're not looking at the moon but the ocean and see the waves then the moon really does exist weather we see it or not because it's still having an effect on the ocean. If it really didn't exist if we looked away then the tides would stop. There are many other examples but I think you get it by now. Our five senses including sight is what allows us to interact with the existence of other beings and matter. This doesn't mean that none of it exists. I'm assuming that your Muslim, we Muslims believe in the unseen (ie. angles, jinns..etc) I guess our senses aren't meant to detect the things of the unseen but doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Many people don't believe in these things because they simply can't see it but it's the same as someone not believing the sun exists at night because we arent facing it and not looking at it. The universe then wouldn't exist since we aren't looking at it according to this theory but scientist have proven that the universe is ageing which means that it must of existed before we looked at it thus matter exists outside our brains.
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    nocturnalman's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Thanks for your reply happymuslim.
    The points you talked about actually came to my mind many times ,for example if the Moon wasnt really there ,lots of consequences would have resulted of that.The same can be said about the sun ,which without its effects there would be no life.The same also goes for gravity ,we are not even able to see gravity to to say that it only exists in our minds.

    But what that guy Harun Yahya argued is that it is Allah who keeps showing us images and we assume that they are really real ,that they have an independet existence.He tries to be clever but at the same time he is contradicting himself.Due to lots of emails he got regarding this topic he added that because we dont know the real nature of what we see and feel ,and that it is only our brain that gives us the picture ,we can never be sure what is really behind that chair we see for example.
    The light that reflects off the chair makes the final image via the eyes and other nerves in our brains ,therefore he claimed that we feel the effects only ,we can never be sure what the chair is really made of and what its real nature is.
    And since we are talking about light here ,no one knows what light is.Light ,the same as time ,is a great mystery.The whole universe seems to be made of light (string theory) and we dont even know what light really is.

    And some quantum physicists have made up the theory that our consciousness forms our reality because of the Double-Slit experiment.I can't believe that how some very smart scientists can be at the same time more dumb than a wall.
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Greetings,

    These are interesting questions that a great many people have been asking for a very long time. The good news is that there are a bazillion books on this subject spanning thousands of years; the bad news is that the questions have never been answered satisfactorily, and likely never will be. In my opinion, scientists are not the best authority on metaphysical questions. Some physicists have tried to get involved (eg., the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum theory as you mentioned), but I always found their philosophical arguments quite unconvincing. Their language is sloppy because it's not their field; they take things too far.

    Anyway, when approaching metaphysical questions there is a large preexisting library of information. Descartes' Discourse on Method is a good place to start. Other classics: Aristotle's Metaphysics, Kant's Critique of Pure Reason (very difficult read), Popper's Objective Knowledge (for something more modern), and much, much more!

    Sincerely,

    --Dan Edge
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    I am no scientist.

    It stems from belief. Then everything falls into place. It comes from the command "Be!" and it is! Every particle making up bigger particles, gazillions upon gazillions of them packed together in coded fashion to form something else entirely. Each particle given its own 'space' no other can intrude. Although, there is 99.99% space in between, that is the 'law' decreed and when they are solid, although 'technically' there is 'space' in between the particles, the space is just too small for light to pass through. So we are a whole bunch of crazy number particles packed together that can whack a pretty good punch. We feel it in the flesh and not just the mind.

    Yes, we need the mind to process the information we can get, not necessarily just from our eyes, but also our ears, nose and skin. And they all give very different inputs. Without the mind, what good will all these senses be except for instinctual purposes. Maybe I would put it the other way round, the mind learns about what it sees of the world outside our brains and find a way to influence the body to go out exploit it, dragged, full force by the nafs.

    Of course the world exists outside the mind. Simply because, it just does not belong to me!


    Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Greetings, nocturnalman.

    What you say remind me to The Matrix. Or maybe you are influenced by that movie?. The Matrix show that we are actually sleeping, and the world and our life are just illusions that we see in our dreams. But are we really sleeping and dreaming like this?.

    I often dream in my sleep and still remember some of these dreams. But there is difference between the world that I see in my dream and the world. In the world in my dream everything can be happen. I could walk on city, but suddenly I walk on a forest. I could fly, I could run as fast as flash. But in the world that I see in my life I never experience these things. If I was actually just sleeping and dream, I must be could experience what I experience in my dreams.

    If what we see were just images that created by our brains, then actually we could manipulate our brains to show only images that we want to see. Even we could manipulate our brains to make us become what we want to be. Like Neo in The Matrix when we would attack agent Smith office. He manipulated his dream to make him has super ability like could move very fast.

    I believe the world does really exist. I believe that I am living in the real life, not in the dream that created by my brain. And I have the reason to believe.

    Everyone has his/her own dream. And two people or more cannot appear in one dream together and do interaction. I often do interaction with other people, and I can feel that they really exist. Not just image that created by my brain, because I can feel what they feel. Like what I felt when someone loves me.

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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    thematrixcyphersteakjpgitokOPFOCzHW 1?itokopfoczhw - Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Lol..

    I just want out.

    Because, you know..

    If you could be in two places at once.
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ...i could ask you who you were with.

    O_o

    Dont worry you all very much exist.

    ..its just that you held no significance to me until i got put here.

    tHe COmPuLsIoN


    Its all very difficult to explain lol, bear witness.

    I hope not to lose.. but im not sinless.

    https://youtu.be/oYl5LkUkehA
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 06-29-2017 at 04:33 PM.
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Some of my observations on the topic.
    There are many levels of reality just as there are many levels of time.
    Neil armstrong claimed to have put a cable out on the moon towards an object that everybody judged to be around 50ftaeay from the shuttle - he says it actually continued to unreel until around 100ft (his claims about the shade contrasts of the soil didn't make much sense just as his claim about day and night since the moon apparently does a monthly orbit).
    (He also appeared to be very careful about what he was saying and alluded to some things in a way that indicated a gag order like situation - anyways, back to topic).
    We are also told in the Quran that time has different measures, and in ahadith about the isra' to jerusalem and the mi'raaj to the heavens - again different time constants - all in a short time frame (although the jerusalem part of the journey may have taken longer just as our road journey to and from the airport often takes longer than the intercity journey via air, or the walk and bus journey to the tube station and out at the other side of the wormhole in a whoosh) - I infer this from the water pitcher on the travellers' camel incident (and my imagination was assisted the slow moving ball of light to the dome of the rock and it's superfast ascent upwards, and also by c.s lewis' lion witch wardrobe book) .

    What Allah causes to be reality is reality, and we humans sometimes have an interaction in this process, if a man can walk on water through strong faith by Allah's leave, heal the blind and the leper through strong faith by Allah's leave, raise the dead to life through strong faith by Allah's leave, breath life into a clay bird through strong faith by Allah's leave, turn water into wine through strong faith (was lawful at the time) by Allah's leave, rebuke the wind and still it through strong faith by Allah's leave, and another can turn a stick into a serpent and then grab it again (after discarding his fear) by Allah's leave, and part the red sea through strong faith (after discarding the apprehension of his followers and declaring his trust in Allah) by Allah's leave, and make springs of water come out of rocks, and hit a dead man with a cow and raise him to life, by Allah's leave, and another can walk through fire and feel cool by Allah's leave, and another can split the moon through faith and prayer by Allah's leave, and another can communicate with animals and have thrones brought before him in the twinkling of an eye by Allah's leave,........and on and on........we can be certain that there is much more to reality than usually meets the normal senses and their processing capacity.
    The processes mentioned above are a quite different from sorcery in that they are dependent upon truth and justice - although the process is sometimes achieved by reflecting an act of sorcery, and sorcery does sometimes attempt to calculate and reflect direct miracles - but thus is another topic concerning the even playing field granted to shaytaan by Allah.

    When we see events in movies where some people connect their brains to those of others and attempt to think and dream in their subconsiousness via deep meditation/bci microchip implants (inception, the source code, bill and hillary's manchurian candidate etc) and others where they connect with blue genies and ride dragons (avatar), and others where they allude to interstellar travel in the nebucadnezzar etc and taking huge risks seeking information on the "fate of the one" (council of zion -matrix) along with their "affinity for disobedience" - it is easier to understand what Allah means when He tells us about jinns snatching info and being pursued by flaming stars, and how deep and strong thought can sometimes make certain realities that aren't normally or commonly understood to be realities.

    I'm typing on a phone and can't see more than 10 words of three lines, so God knows, I'll just carry on typing.....

    When a program or hard disk not connected to a bigger network lacks info, it doesn't necessarily mean that what it assumes to be the limit of reality, is actually the limit, and we already know it to be true from the amount of digital text files out there (also taking "save any photo, video, program file as .txt into account) that if all the oceans were to be converted to ink -the words of Allah would not be exhausted even if there were several oceans to back them up. This was at one time difficult to fathom, So it is certain that reality has more to do with Allah than it has to do with the limited human brain.

    God knows why he refers to area 51 and talks about night and day, and "it was light the next day" especilly considering the orbits and the fact that the rotation of the earth doesn't appear to affect a day on the near side of the moon.... but anyways, the interview is interesting:



    The initial commentary is not a part of the speech of niel himself, his speech comes a little later in the vid, only complete speech I could find -


    One can be led to wonder, can we really calculate the distance of a star outside of our solar system in light years accurately when we are told that time changes and varies in space?.....
    See this post for more info:

    PhD thesis: The earth is flat! An example of how religion and science doesn't mix wel


    What's most important is that someone's telling us that we are all gonna die, and then be raised and judged and rewarded accordingly, won't this world then feel like it was a short dream...... or nightmare?
    Try and picture it in your mind, waking up, dust stained, thinking, wondering....what next???








    258. Have you not Turned your vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Gives life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causes the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor does Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

    259. Or (take) the similitude of one who passed by a hamlet, all in ruins to its roofs. He said: "Oh! how shall Allah bring it (ever) to life, after (this) its death?" but Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him up (again). He said: "How long didst thou tarry (thus)?" He said: (Perhaps) a day or part of a day." He said: "Nay, thou hast tarried thus a hundred years; but look at thy food and thy drink; they show no signs of age; and look at thy donkey: And that We may make of thee a sign unto the people, Look further at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh." When this was shown clearly to him, he said: "I know that Allah hath power over all things."

    260. Behold! Abraham said: "My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead." He said: "Dost thou not then believe?" He said: "Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking." He said: "Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."

    From Quran, Chapter 2, Al Baqarah





    46. We did send Moses aforetime, with Our Signs, to Pharaoh and his Chiefs: He said, "I am an apostle of the Lord of the Worlds."

    47. But when he came to them with Our Signs, behold they ridiculed them.

    48. We showed them Sign after Sign, each greater than its fellow, and We seized them with Punishment, in order that they might turn (to Us).

    49. And they said, "O thou sorcerer! Invoke thy Lord for us according to His covenant with thee; for we shall truly accept guidance."

    50. But when We removed the Penalty from them, behold, they broke their word.

    51. And Pharaoh proclaimed among his people, saying: "O my people! Does not the dominion of Egypt belong to me, (witness) these streams flowing underneath my (palace)? What! see ye not then?

    52. "Am I not better than this (Moses), who is a contemptible wretch and can scarcely express himself clearly?

    53. "Then why are not gold bracelets bestowed on him, or (why) come (not) with him angels accompanying him in procession?"

    54. Thus did he make fools of his people, and they obeyed him: truly were they a people rebellious (against Allah..

    55. When at length they provoked Us, We exacted retribution from them, and We drowned them all.

    56. And We made them (a people) of the Past and an Example to later ages.

    57. When (Jesus) the son of Mary is held up as an example, behold, thy people raise a clamour thereat (in ridicule)!

    58. And they say, "Are our gods best, or he?" This they set forth to thee, only by way of disputation: yea, they are a contentious people.

    59. He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel.

    60. And if it were Our Will, We could make angels from amongst you, succeeding each other on the earth.

    61. And it shall be a Sign of the Hour: therefore have no doubt about it, but follow Me: this is a Straight Way.

    62. Let not Satan hinder you: for he is to you an enemy avowed.

    63. When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.

    64. "For Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord: so worship ye Him: this is a Straight Way."

    65. But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement: then woe to the wrong-doers, from the Penalty of a Grievous Day!

    66. Do they only wait for the Hour - that it should come on them all of a sudden, while they perceive not?

    67. Friends on that day will be foes, one to another,- except the Righteous.

    From Quran, Chapter 43, Ornaments of gold.




    101. Then when the Trumpet is blown, there will be no more relationships between them that Day, nor will one ask after another!

    102. Then those whose balance (of good deeds) is heavy,- they will attain salvation:

    103. But those whose balance is light, will be those who have lost their souls, in Hell will they abide.

    104. The Fire will burn their faces, and they will therein grin, with their lips displaced.

    105. "Were not My Signs rehearsed to you, and ye did but treat them as falsehood?"

    106. They will say: "our Lord! Our misfortune overwhelmed us, and we became a people astray!

    107. "Our Lord! bring us out of this: if ever we return (to Evil), then shall we be wrong-doers indeed!"

    108. He will say: "Be ye driven into it (with ignominy)! And speak ye not to Me!

    109. "A part of My servants there was, who used to pray 'our Lord! we believe; then do Thou forgive us, and have mercy upon us: For Thou art the Best of those who show mercy!"

    110. "But ye treated them with ridicule, so much so that (ridicule of) them made you forget My Message while ye were laughing at them!

    111. "I have rewarded them this Day for their patience and constancy: they are indeed the ones that have achieved Bliss..."

    112. He will say: "What number of years did ye stay on earth?"

    113. They will say: "We stayed a day or part of a day: but ask those who keep account."

    114. He will say: "Ye stayed not but a little,- if ye had only known!


    115. "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?"

    116. Therefore exalted be Allah, the King, the Reality: there is no god but He, the Lord of the Throne of Honour!

    117. If anyone invokes, besides Allah, Any other god, he has no authority therefor; and his reckoning will be only with his Lord! and verily the Unbelievers will fail to win through!

    118. So say: "O my Lord! grant Thou forgiveness and mercy for Thou art the Best of those who show mercy!"

    From Quran, Chapter 23, The Believers.






    51. The trumpet shall be sounded, when behold! from the sepulchres (men) will rush forth to their Lord!

    52. They will say: "Ah! Woe unto us! Who hath raised us up from our beds of repose?"... (A voice will say "This is what ((Allah)) Most Gracious had promised. And true was the word of the apostles!"

    53. It will be no more than a single Blast, when lo! they will all be brought up before Us!

    54. Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds.

    55. Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in all that they do;

    56. They and their associates will be in groves of (cool) shade, reclining on Thrones (of dignity);

    57. (Every) fruit (enjoyment) will be there for them; they shall have whatever they call for;

    58. "Peace!" - a word (of salutation) from a Lord Most Merciful!

    59. "And O ye in sin! Get ye apart this Day!

    60. "Did I not enjoin on you, O ye Children of Adam, that ye should not worship Satan; for that he was to you an enemy avowed?-

    61. "And that ye should worship Me, (for that) this was the Straight Way?

    62. "But he did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did ye not, then, understand?

    63. "This is the Hell of which ye were (repeatedly) warned!

    64. "Embrace ye the (fire) this Day, for that ye (persistently) rejected (Truth)."

    65. That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did.

    66. If it had been our Will, We could surely have blotted out their eyes; then should they have run about groping for the Path, but how could they have seen?

    67. And if it had been Our Will, We could have transformed them (to remain) in their places; then should they have been unable to move about, nor could they have returned (after error).

    68. If We grant long life to any, We cause him to be reversed in nature: Will they not then understand?


    69. We have not instructed the (Prophet) in Poetry, nor is it meet for him: this is no less than a Message and a Qur'an making things clear:

    70. That it may give admonition to any (who are) alive, and that the charge may be proved against those who reject (Truth).

    From Quran Chapter 36, Yaa Seen.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-29-2017 at 09:08 PM.
    Does a world exist outside our brains ?




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    sister herb's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Does a world exist outside our brains?
    Does it matter?
    Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.



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    Abz2000's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb View Post
    Does it matter?

    Brain matter?


    49. They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?"

    50. Say: " be you stones or iron,

    51. "Or created matter which, in your minds, is toughest ,- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon!

    52. "It will be on a Day when He will call you, and you will answer (His call) with (words of) His praise, and you will think that you tarried but a little while!"
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-30-2017 at 02:43 AM.
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  15. #12
    sister herb's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Does it matter if the world exists outside of our brains or not? If yes or if not, that´s then how Allah has created it and Allah knows the best.
    | Likes Zafran liked this post
    Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    From Occupied Palestine:

    We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.



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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb View Post
    Does it matter if the world exists outside of our brains or not? If yes or if not, that´s then how Allah has created it and Allah knows the best.
    It certainly matters that more than the universe exists outside of our limited brains.

    Most computational neuroscientists tend to estimate human storage capacity somewhere between 10 terabytes and 100 terabytes, though the full spectrum of guesses ranges from 1 terabyte to 2.5 petabytes. (One terabyte is equal to about 1,000 gigabytes or about 1 million megabytes; a petabyte is about 1,000 terabytes.)

    Those are just estimates, although the efficient method of filing and archiving is also amazing. It helps us all to consider our limited capacities - and huge responsibilities.....And forces us to think about what Allah wants from us, and to continually rectify our characters and behaviour whilst here on planet earth: .


    190. Indeed in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for those who possess understanding,-

    191. Those who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this for nothing! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

    192. "Our Lord! Verily any whom You admit to the Fire, Truly you discrace them, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers!

    193. "Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous.

    194. "Our Lord! Grant us what You promised to us through Thine Messengers, and save us from disgrace on the Day of Judgment: For You never break Your promise."

    195. And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."

    From Quran, Chapter 3, The Family of 'Imraan.




    It is a bit different from the "general Zod" scenario, so is the Dome of the Rock light:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_N4lCmgKTA
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-29-2017 at 09:32 PM.
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    your basically describing bishop Barkelys Idealism "to be is to be perceived" As many have said before these old Philosophical problems that many have pondered over but no real answer has come about.

    There is famous saying attributed to Imam Ali(ra) "everybody is asleep and when they die they wake up".

    Allah Knows best.
    Last edited by Zafran; 06-30-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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    Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Do you think the pious don't sin?

    They merely:
    Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
    Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
    Took ownership of it and don't justify it
    And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Though the pens may be lifted from a sleeping person - they are not lifted from those awake on earth and in control of their senses.
    It may seem like a short dream by comparison when the reality of Aakhirah and eternity hits - even though it wasn't a dream.






    وَمَا كَانَ قَوْلَهُمْ إِلاَّ أَن قَالُواْ ربَّنَا اغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا وَإِسْرَافَنَا فِي أَمْرِنَا وَثَبِّتْ أَقْدَامَنَا وانصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ {147

    003:147
    :
    And they said nothing but: "Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and our transgressions (in keeping our duties to You), establish our feet firmly, and give us victory over the truth denying folk."


    فَآتَاهُمُ اللّهُ ثَوَابَ الدُّنْيَا وَحُسْنَ ثَوَابِ الآخِرَةِ وَاللّهُ يُحِبُّ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {148

    003:148
    :
    So Allah gave them the reward of this world, and the excellent reward of the Hereafter. And Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (the good-doers - see the footnote of V.3:134).
    Last edited by Abz2000; 06-30-2017 at 03:17 AM.
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  20. #16
    nocturnalman's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by sister herb View Post
    Does it matter if the world exists outside of our brains or not? If yes or if not, that´s then how Allah has created it and Allah knows the best.
    Yes I think it matters,It can help people with psychological problems (from which many people suffer).A saudi newspaper published once that 250 ,000 Saudi citizens suffer from Schizophrenia.This number is too high for a population like Saudi Arabia.Also many people suffer from Psychosis and something called derealization.
    When they go and see a doctor ,they will prescribe them medications that cause lots of bad side effects and wont even cure the problem.
    In my opinion it woud do them much better if medical personal knew to explain to them how we perceive the world instead of stuffing them with medications that have more harm than benefit.

    We all know that Islam forbids taking something that has more harm than benefit ,and if you do some research you will realize that most medications have more harm than benefit ,so whats the difference in taking a medicine prescribed by a doctor that has more harm than benefit and smoking weed ?

    Our modern age is not the same as that of our grandparents and generations that come later and later need to keep on learning.Small ideas can result in great results that can benefit lots of people.It is true that we live a much easier life than that of the generations before ,but nothing comes without its side effects.

    Let me give you an example: Where I live there is a big community that is well known for consuming LSD.As you know ,LSD can cause hallucinations ,some people take lower doses for more "mental power" and some at the same time take a dose that turns out to be too high for that particular individual which causes them to experience a bad trip ,which might have a negative effect on them for some time.
    I do have some experience in chemistry (did 3 semesters in a Uni) but I oppose the Idea of going straight to taking medications.

    Now you might say why the hell is he talking about a drug ,which is of course haram.What I am trying to say is that substances like LSD can help scientists understand the human brain by taking fMRI images while asking the person to do certain tasks to see which parts of the brain become active and how emotions work.

    One more important point to mention is that not only a drug can cause psychological problems ,some people might experience a derealization from taking a drug and some people might get it without taking anything.In many cases great stress triggers these problems.Did you know that even many medications prescribed by doctors can cause psychological problems ,things like sleeping pills and other drugs people consider normal stuff ?
    We live in a world full of toxins right now ,even our daily food we consume contains stuff that should never be in food and it would be good to understand its effects on our mental health.

    I read many stories of patients being on medications because they suffer from a derealization to great stress ,where they feel that their surroundings are unreal and therefore they experience loneliness on top of that.It is like a feeling of being trapped inside yourself without anyone being able to understand you.
    Before handing them out medications like candies a doctor could easily explain them that what they experience is due to how high amounts of certain chemicals in the body shift their brain chemistry.
    Our brain is center of our body and I dont see any problem by deeply trying to understand everything about it.
    We muslims should really get out of this mentality of saying "Does it matter ? Allah made it so ..." Yes I know that Allah made it so ,and he does whatever he wills.
    But there is no harm in trying to understand things.
    How many times in a year do you hear about a university research done in a muslim country that pathed the way for more important research ? I almost never hear about any.Non-Muslim countries do experiments and research about almost anything and thats why they are developed in many fields and the Muslims are not.
    Yes we hear about many old islamic scholars and scientists ,but what about know ? Did time stop ?
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    Reminder's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Interesting fact: Everything we see, hear, feel, smell, etc. is actually in the past.
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    nocturnalman's Avatar Limited Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Reminder View Post
    Interesting fact: Everything we see, hear, feel, smell, etc. is actually in the past.
    can you explain a little bit more ?
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    whosebob's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    Allah is fair and he is justice. He would'nt give mankind different perspectives. It would leave an open argument for unbelievers to use against Him on the Day of Qiyamah. He gave us all the same tools to know him, Alhamdullilah.
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    Re: Does a world exist outside our brains ?

    format_quote Originally Posted by Reminder View Post
    Interesting fact: Everything we see, hear, feel, smell, etc. is actually in the past.
    When you see stars in the night sky, yes, you actually see light from the past because due to distance, the light from star need very long time before arrive to your eyes. But if you see an object near you, then you see the present because the light from this object arrive to your eyes instantly.

    Speed of sound is not as fast as speed of light, but sound will be weaken due to distance, like smells that will be faded due to distance. Meanwhile, you cannot touch an object that has gone in the past.
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