× Register Login What's New! Contact us
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    rpwelton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    404
    Threads
    31
    Reputation
    3397
    Rep Power
    72
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Frustrating da'wah

    Report bad ads?

    ,

    I have been giving da'wah to a Christian friend of mine (whom I met recently as a result of him wanting to learn more about Islam), and I have become increasingly frustrated at my efforts.

    Obviously I know that it's not our job to "convert" anyone, nor can we guide them ourselves; that is a job solely for Allah and He guides whom He Wills. All we can do is convey the message the best that we can.

    However, I'm wondering how long we should persist giving da'wah to someone. In my situation, we have begun to repeat the same arguments over and over again, and we're both extremely entrenched in our respective positions.

    I'd still like to be friends with him, however I'm just wondering if I should keep giving da'wah, or if I have to just step back. Of course, when I think about this, I remember prophet Nuh and how he gave da'wah for 900 years and had less than a hundred followers.

    Any advice?
    Last edited by rpwelton; 05-06-2009 at 04:55 PM.

  2. Report bad ads?
  3. #2
    convert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    440
    Threads
    5
    Reputation
    3530
    Rep Power
    68
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    what are the sticking points?

    i suggest listening to shabir ally and kamal el-mekki lectures for some ammo.

  4. #3
    glo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Christianity
    Posts
    8,472
    Threads
    395
    Reputation
    61734
    Rep Power
    123
    Likes (Given)
    1366
    Likes (Received)
    1512

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    I don't think there is much point if you are caught in a circular argument.
    Remember that those debates between Islam and Christianity have been held for 1400 years now. There are arguments for the positions on both sides ... and sometimes a person is not going to change his/her view untils/he has a 'change of heart' rather than being convinced by arguments (because for every argument to support one view there is a counter-argument to support the other ...)

    I would continue to engage in conversation with your friend, as long as he is willing to do so.

    But as far as your circular debates go, you may just have to agree that you disagree - at least for now.
    Frustrating da'wah

    Peace
    glo

    Here I stand.
    I can do no other.
    May God help me.
    Amen.

    Come, let us worship and bow down •
    and kneel before the Lord our Maker

    [Psalm 95]


  5. #4
    rpwelton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    404
    Threads
    31
    Reputation
    3397
    Rep Power
    72
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    Quote Originally Posted by convert View Post
    what are the sticking points?

    i suggest listening to shabir ally and kamal el-mekki lectures for some ammo.
    I believe the main issue is that he doesn't see why we need to follow laws set by God. He believes that God doesn't care whether or not you're circumcised, or eat pork, etc. What matters is only in your heart. He also feels like the Jews and Muslims are too robotic in their rituals. Of course I responded by saying that if you had a book in which God told you to do certain things, wouldn't you do them? He said not if it didn't fit with the culture.

    Then of course there's the trinity issue, which is a little frustrating because he seems to have a unique view of the trinity (discussed in another thread of mine entitled "Let me see if I have this right"), where he believes that Jesus, the Father and Holy Spirit are not equal, but rather Jesus is like an intermediary to the Father. I'm having a harder time trying to refute this, because most of the counter-trinity arguments center upon a "each are fully God, yet together they are still one" philosophy. His view is that Jesus is a part of God like a hand is a part of the body.

    Of course, one could say that this is a form of polytheism because that's like setting up an idol between you and God, but he doesn't see it that way.

  6. Report bad ads?
  7. #5
    GreyKode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    718
    Threads
    0
    Reputation
    3825
    Rep Power
    68
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    recently I was watching this debate, between a muslim and a christian, and in the end they both offered each other an invitation to accept what each thought was the truth(his religion), but what the christian said really turned something in me, he said "if I convince you will you bow down before jesus christ" at that point I simply recognized the danger of christianity, its not an alternative way to GOD, but its a way to GOD's wrath, this is why ALLAH(swt) says in the Qur'an that the heaven's and the earth tremble to this thought(ALLAH(swt) having a son or coequal), bow down before jesus(pbuh), A MAN. I said to myself never will I bow down before any one but ALLAH(swt).
    I don't want to sound narrow-minded but this is the ultimate path that christianity leads to, and this is not a new scenario, throughout time people attributed things to other than the one true GOD, just think about it, despite all the good that the religion(christianity) offers, in the end youre not worshipping ALLAH(swt), and your thanking the wrong god for the blessings bestowed upon you.
    Last edited by GreyKode; 05-06-2009 at 06:58 PM.

  8. #6
    ahmed_indian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    saudi arabia
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    416
    Threads
    138
    Reputation
    3055
    Rep Power
    68
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    12

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    bro, just tell them about Islam and leave them.

    by arguing, they 'll become more arrogant and it can affect our faith also.

    remember prophet (saws) taught 13 yrs in makkah about islam but the result was very minimal...so have patience.

  9. #7
    Fantasy Garden's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    17
    Threads
    2
    Reputation
    178
    Rep Power
    66
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    I have been giving da'wah to a Christian friend of mine (whom I met recently as a result of him wanting to learn more about Islam)
    Glad to know that ,
    You can make friendship with him there is no problem at all ..as long as you guys
    respect each others thoughts and religion .
    If he asked you to clear an idea he got about islam ..you can do that.
    If he asked you to visit a museum or something ..you can do that .

    Prophet Mohammed (salla allah alhy wasallam) had a Jewish neighbor ,
    his son got sick ..what did our prophet do ? he went to a visit wishing
    to him a better health ..
    ----------------------------
    Make sure your Faith is strong , and you have all the answers to your friend`s Qs.

  10. #8
    AabiruSabeel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    8,837
    Threads
    350
    Reputation
    119611
    Rep Power
    153
    Likes (Given)
    1257
    Likes (Received)
    3910

    Re: Frustrating da'wah


    Quote Originally Posted by rpwelton View Post
    I have been giving da'wah to a Christian friend of mine (whom I met recently as a result of him wanting to learn more about Islam), and I have become increasingly frustrated at my efforts.
    Whenever we give Da'wah to someone, one point that we must keep in our mind is that this Da'wah what I am doing is for the sake of myself. When I give Da'wah, it will benefit me, either by strengthening my own Iman, or if the mad'oo (person on whom da'wah is performed) comes back towards Allah, then I will also get the reward of his good deeds.

    Allah says to our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi waSallam:
    سواء عليهم أأنذرتهم أم لم تنذرهم لا يؤمنون
    Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not. [2:6]
    Here Allah says sawaa-un 'alaihim not sawaa-un 'alaika, ie it is same for them, whether you call them towards Truth or not; but Allah does not say it is same for you, whether you call them or not, so no need to call.
    So da'wah will always benefit the caller when we make the intention that this da'wah is for my own benefit.

    If we think that I am spending this effort for the sake of someone else, then there are two dangers awaiting for us:
    1. If the person accepts Islam, or comes closer to Allah due to our efforts, we will feel proud and there are chances that our nafs will say, you have done a very good job. Now you will get the reward for all his good deeds, so no need to practice so much now. And our nafs will say: I have done something. This I is really dangerous. It is Allah who has guided him, and I was in no way worthy of this great effort of Da'wah.

    2. If the person does not listen, or mock at us, or rejects our da'wah, we become frustrated. We will think, he is not listening then why should I give him da'wah? And we will eventually abandon our efforts.
    Hasn't our Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi waSallam visited Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab and Abu Talib unumerous times? Perseverance is one of the qualities that a Da'i must have.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpwelton View Post
    I believe the main issue is that he doesn't see why we need to follow laws set by God. He believes that God doesn't care whether or not you're circumcised, or eat pork, etc. What matters is only in your heart. He also feels like the Jews and Muslims are too robotic in their rituals. Of course I responded by saying that if you had a book in which God told you to do certain things, wouldn't you do them? He said not if it didn't fit with the culture.
    When a manufacturer creates a device or a machine, he knows better than anybody else how that machine works. He knows the pros and cons, the in and out of the machine. Therefore he provides a user manual with it, so that the end-user can operate the machine properly.
    Similarly, Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala has created the human beings. He knows better than anybody else, how we should live our lives. He knows better how to operate our body.
    If we think that I have bought this machine, or I have bought this car, and now its my own property. I can use it as I like. I will pour water in the fuel tank, and petrol in the carburettor, and press accelerator whenever I want, and apply the brake whenever I want, then you know what will be the outcome.
    Similarly, Allah has given us this life, and Allah has created us. He knows better than anybody else, how we should live our lives. If we think, its my life and my body, and do whatever actions we like, then there will be nothing but fasad on earth. We will only be spreading mischief on earth.
    We humans have very limited intellect. Even though science is now proving the benefits of following the Sunnah, we cannot fully comprehend the Wisdom behind following the rules and regulation of Deen. Since our Creator has commanded us to follow it, we must follow it for our own benefit, in this life as well as the life hereafter.


    Another important that a Da'i must have is, his own connection with Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala. When Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala gave prophethood to Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi waSallam, He Himself taught him the method of da'wah. So He revealed Surah Al-Muddaththir and Al-Muzzammil. These two Surah are among the early Makkan Surahs.
    In Surah Al-Muddaththir, Allah SubHanahu wa Ta'ala has taught our Prophet how he should do the Da'wah during the day time. "O thou wrapped up (in the mantle)! Arise and deliver thy warning! And thy Lord do thou magnify! And thy garments keep free from stain! And all abomination shun! Nor expect, in giving, any increase (for thyself)! But, for thy Lord's (Cause), be patient and constant!" [74:1-7]
    And in Surah Al-Muzzammil, He taught him the efforts to be spent during the night. "O thou folded in garments! Stand (to prayer) by night, but not all night,- Half of it,- or a little less, Or a little more; and recite the Qur'an in slow, measured rhythmic tones." [73:1-4].
    So it is important for a Da'i to stand up in prayer during the night and engage in Dua, and shed some tears. The efforts of the day (inviting people towards Allah) is like ploughing the fields and sowing the seeds. And the efforts during the night (crying in front of Allah) is like watering the field. If we simply plough the field and sow the seeds, but do not water them, then we cannot expect any crop.
    Similarly, we have to get up for tahajjud and cry in front of our Lord, O Allah! I have not done anything. I cannot fulfil the rights of Da'wah upon me. I am not worthy of taking part in this great mission, for which you used to Prophets and Messengers. I know that I cannot guide anyone. Nothing will happen due to my efforts. It is You, O Allah, who guides whoever You want. Please guide so and so to the right path... ...

    After the conquest of Makkah, the Sahabah, and the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi waSallam himself, was crying during the night, holding the curtains of Ka'bah, and saying, O Allah! give hidayah to Wahshi, O Allah! give hidayah to Hindah, O Allah! give hidayah to Ikramah...


    This is what I learnt from 'Ulama and elders in the field of Da'wah. If I said anything wrong, then its from me and Shaitan, so pls correct me. If there is anything right, then it is from Allah. May Allah give us the taufeeq to practice what we preach.

    Frustrating da'wah

    تَقَـبَّـلَ اللهُ مِنَّـا وَمِنْـكُم

  11. #9
    doorster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Religion
    Unspecified
    Posts
    1,513
    Threads
    88
    Reputation
    21041
    Rep Power
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Re: Frustrating da'wah

    Quote Originally Posted by rpwelton View Post
    ,
    walaikum salam
    Any advice?
    let him alone and if he sees your practice of your way of life worth following, he will, otherwise "proving him wrong" will make him steadfast in opposition to your beliefs
    Last edited by doorster; 05-07-2009 at 04:39 PM.

  12. Report bad ads?
  13. #10
    syilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    malaysia
    Gender
    Female
    Religion
    Islam
    Posts
    6,161
    Threads
    276
    Reputation
    37758
    Rep Power
    109
    Likes (Given)
    236
    Likes (Received)
    93

    Re: Frustrating da'wah



    Have you ever heard of giving da'wah by not pushing... just by giving a good example. Show the best manners ever...
    Frustrating da'wah



    25:36 And the true servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk the earth with humility and when the ignorant address them, they respond with words of peace.


  14. Hide
Hey there! Frustrating da'wah Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.

When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Frustrating da'wah
Sign Up

Similar Threads

  1. Misalignment is very frustrating!
    By sabr* in forum Feedback & Suggestions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-04-2010, 10:50 PM
  2. Worlds hardest (and most frustrating) game!!!
    By love_mawada in forum Halal Fun
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-09-2010, 09:52 AM
  3. Replies: 67
    Last Post: 08-09-2006, 02:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
create