Listening to Sufis Music

Music is haram. See here inshaAllah http://www.islam-qa.com/en/cat/2008#1293


As for poetry, I'd stay away from Baba Bulle Shah's and 'Sufi' poetry.


With regards to Bulle Shah - his poem 'ki jana mein kaun' here is the roman urdu and it's translation:


Bulleya ki janan mein kaun

Na mein momin vich maseetan
Na mein vich kufr dee reet aan
Na mein paakaan vich paleet aan
Na mein Moosa na Firaon
Bulleya ki janan mein kaun

Awwal aakhir aap noon jaanan
Na koi dooja hor pichana
Mein toon vadh na koi sayana
O' Bulleya o' Bulleya
Bulleya ki janan mein kaun

Na mein aabi na mein khaki
Na mein aatish na mein pon
Bulleya ki janan mein kaun

*********************

translation

Bulleya- Who am I?

Bulleya, who am I?
I am no believer in a mosque
And I have no pagan ways
I am not pure. I am not vile
I’m no Moses and I’m no Pharoah
Bulleya, who am I?

First and last, I see the self
I recognize no second to it
No one is more knowing than me*1
But, Bulleh, who is it that I am?
Bulleya, who am I?

Water nor dust are neither what makes me *2
I am not flame. I am not wind
I am not pure. I am not vile
I’m no Moses and I’m no Pharoah
Bulleya, who am I?
Bulleya, who am I?



1. No one is more knowing than me 1* < This attribute of being the All-Knower belongs to Allah alone.

2. Water nor dust are neither what makes me *2 < Humans are made from dust and water.

Therefore, those words are supposedly God's, na udhu billa! And according to Bulle Shah, Allah is asking him who He is. Astaghfirullah!


Allah has told us who He is, through His names and attributes - for example:

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem

Qul Hu wallaahu Ahad
Allaahus Samad
Lam Yalid wa lam yoolad
Walam Yakul-lahoo kufu-wan Ahad


Say: He is Allah, the One
Allah, the Independent
He begets not, nor is He begotten
And there is none like Him


Why would a man write/imagine that Allah is asking him who He is. If the poet is attempting to create awareness of God in us then he is not advocating it be done in the the ways commanded by Allah and His Prophet (saw) but rather by our own definitions and understanding. Or he is claiming that Allah spoke to him. Or he imagined Allah saying those words and asking those questions which Allah didn't. So it is a lie against Allah.


As if that isn't bad enough, line 4 of the song says: 'I am not pure. I am not vile'.


But Allah's name Al-Quddoos means 'The Holy' - The One who is pure from any imperfection and clear from children and adversaries.


Thus, line 4 of the song denies this attribute of Allah. Na udhu billah.

Astaghfirullah. Sufis can be very lenient in their descriptions of the attributes of Allah. Na udhu billah. They easily elevate the status of their 'peers' higher to that of the Prophet's and even commit shirk by claiming they have knowledge of the unseen, and therefore committing shirk. My sincere advice is to keep away from sufi poetry unless you know it to be absolutely free from blasphemy and shirk. Better still read/learn Allah's poetry in Al-Quran.

format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul

I think there is a deeper understanding to sufi poetry then what you say. I don't consider your answer to be valid.

As for the question about listening to sufi music...Allah SWT knows. I do not know what is right and what is wrong these days with so many people holding different beliefs. Do your own research on Sufism and its teachings, do not be brainwashed by anyone on this website or any other for that matter

Deeper understanding than what the words suggest? That is a cult mentality. Cults tell you that. There are good and bad Sufis. Bulleh Shah is writing very much under the influence of Hindu and Buddhist philosophies that effected his views. In another poetry, Bullay Shah says that if it was in his control, he would destroy mosques and temples. Apparently because they create differentiation and division.

In the same poem, Bullay Shah says that a maulvi fights with shaytan but not with his nafs - he is sort of mocking the orthodox scholars/maulvis.

Regarding Sufi music for attaining closeness to Allah, it is haram. Purely man-made (by Sufis) and not practiced by any of the Salaf to obtain Allah's consciousness .

To the OP: do not fall trap into the highly romanticized and spiritually enlightening pampered up version of Islam in the form of Sufism. BBC even had an article on it which was something like "Sufism for Swat" or something like that. When the illhearted kaafirs on sites like BBC support something, know that this something is kufr and wrong.

format_quote Originally Posted by Wa7abiScientist

Deeper understanding than what the words suggest? That is a cult mentality. Cults tell you that. There are good and bad Sufis. Bulleh Shah is writing very much under the influence of Hindu and Buddhist philosophies that effected his views. In another poetry, Bullay Shah says that if it was in his control, he would destroy mosques and temples. Apparently because they create differentiation and division.

In the same poem, Bullay Shah says that a maulvi fights with shaytan but not with his nafs - he is sort of mocking the orthodox scholars/maulvis.

Regarding Sufi music for attaining closeness to Allah, it is haram. Purely man-made (by Sufis) and not practiced by any of the Salaf to obtain Allah's consciousness .

To the OP: do not fall trap into the highly romanticized and spiritually enlightening pampered up version of Islam in the form of Sufism. BBC even had an article on it which was something like "Sufism for Swat" or something like that. When the illhearted kaafirs on sites like BBC support something, know that this something is kufr and wrong.

Yes, Maybe there is more to it then what meets the eye... Cults don't tell me anything, i have a mind of my own. Don't give me any of that rubbish, I'm not stupid enough to criticise someone when i do not even know the full story, in this case i do not know the proper translation of the naats/nasheeds. I'm not going to take your word for it, I'd rather take this issue up with someone with a deep understanding of naats. (A scholar)

Regards to sufism and you lambasting them, im not going to claim what they preach is man made just because they appeared on the BBC...I doubt you have done your research on sufism and what it teaches, I haven't hence i refrain from criticising them.

format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul

Yes. Cults don't tell me anything, i have a mind of my own. I'm not stupid enough to criticise someone when i do not even know the full meaning of something. Im not going to take your word for it, I'd rather take this issue up with someone with a deep understanding of naats.

Regards to sufism, im not going to claim what they preach is man made just because they appeared on the BBC...I doubt you have done your research on sufism and what it teaches, I haven't hence i refrain from criticising them

I know enough about Sufism and its varieties from oriental, theological and secular sources that I can see the illusions it spreads. As Ibn-e-Taymiyyah (ra) said, there are good and bad Sufis. I include Bullay Shah in the bad ones.

You can provide me with no evidence whatsoever in which a companion of the Prophet used musical instruments to praise Allah or the Prophet. Can you? You cannot. Hence, it is a filth that has sprouted forth from the evil minds of men .... One who studies the concept of Qawwali among the Barelviyyah sect will come to see how it is dissimilar from the practice of our Nabi.

format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah

[I]


Astaghfirullah. Sufis can be very lenient in their descriptions of the attributes of Allah. Na udhu billah. They easily elevate the status of their 'peers' higher to that of the Prophet's and even commit shirk by claiming they have knowledge of the unseen, and therefore committing shirk. My sincere advice is to keep away from sufi poetry unless you know it to be absolutely free from blasphemy and shirk. Better still read/learn Allah's poetry in Al-Quran.

I agree with you sister and personally even i dont like all these sufi peotry's.

I remember talking to one fella who believed in all this stuff, he said my peer is my allah and i went ..... huh? then he used words which i coudnt understand and later realised these people just mix words and have distorted thinking....

All these poetry does nothing but confuse

Thanks for all the answer , what i understand most of them are againt it because you think that they had write wrong words might be some of them reading transalation or its the way of thinking that they are using wrong words in peotry.

As far as i understand i think the meaning is different that is posted , as i know punjabi so when i read the poetry i feel different meaning then its posted

I will give some example

Punjabi
Awwal aakhir aap noon jaanan
Na koi dooja hor pichana
Mein toon vadh na koi sayana

Transalation
First and last, I see the self
I recognize no second to it
No one is more knowing than me

Here while tralating by "scent of Jannah" says that bullay shah is saying that he knows all so he is commiting shirt , as far as i understand the poetry (might be i am wrong) the meaning is differnet Bullayshah is not refering to him self that he know all despite by saying this he is refereing to people who donot believe on Allah. Like some people believe that the will not get another life in the day of judgement so Bullay Shah is refering and quoting those people that they think this is the only life they get and they know the best.

In another part some one transalted that

In another poetry, Bullay Shah says that if it was in his control, he would destroy mosques and temples. Apparently because they create differentiation and division

I only rememer only one words about this of Bhullay Shah that is

Punjabi
Dha day masjid , Dha day Mandir , Dha Day Jo kuch Dhenda
Per kisay da dil na toreen , Dil wich rab hain renda.

Transaltion is some thing like that (ignor my bad english)

Destroy Mosqe , Destroy Mandir , Destroy Every thing you can Destroy
But never destroy the heart of men because in this heart my Lord Lives.

Now , if you analyse it , Bhullay shah is not actually saying that you have to destroy moseque but rather he is saying the donot hert human being as it even worse to kill/hert a human being rather to destroy a mosque.

I am just remembering , I am not sure whether its a Hadis or saying like that if there is a man trapped inside Kabba and there is no way to take him out except to demolish the wall of Kabba then demolish the wall , take the man out and rebuild the wall , so actually the poet is giving the importance of the life and human being in the eyes of Allah and not actually means to destroy mosques.

I am not saying that they are right or wrong , Allah knows the best and Allah knows what they actually want to say but just giving a point of view that the meaning of peotry might not actually the same as you are thinking ,and to analyse the poetry you must have to read all of it and not just taking some part , it might have some good meanings which is not coming in our minds

What you people say?

^ Everyone has their own understanding.

Just like the Quran, You have to read the hadith to understand the meaning behind various verses. In this case, go to someone who UNDERSTANDS the qawwali, not laymen on here. This site is salafi oriented so anything you say about sufism is no doubt going to get rebuked anyway.

If one doesn't know the TRUE meaning behind the naats then i say to them be quiet instead of tarnishing the image of the individual who wrote it.

Finally, I think someone mentioned "Bilal Philips" on here, This person is affiliated with Dr Zakir Naik, A yazeed lover! His true colors were unveiled when he praised the KILLER of Imam Hussain hence I do not listen to people who hold such views...

Peaceandlove: Here while tralating by "scent of Jannah" says that bullay shah is saying that he knows all so he is commiting shirt

You misunderstood brother.

I did not say Bulle Shah is saying he knows all. I said according to Bulle Shah those words are supposedly Allah's as is the rest of the poem. Ask yourself brother, is it right to associate with Allah, speech that isn't His?

Scents of Jannah: '1. No one is more knowing than me 1* < This attribute of being the All-Knower belongs to Allah alone.'

peaceandlove: Destroy Mosqe , Destroy Mandir , Destroy Every thing you can Destroy But never destroy the heart of men because in this heart my Lord Lives. Now , if you analyse it , Bhullay shah is not actually saying that you have to destroy moseque but rather he is saying the donot hert human being as it even worse to kill/hert a human being rather to destroy a mosque.

Indeed Bulle Shah isn't telling us to literally destroy masjids and mandirs. He is playing down the importance of religion to emphasize the importance of not hurting anyone's feelings. And in doing so, he has claimed that:


1. Allah lives in the hearts of men?!

Wrong! We can say we have love of Allah in our hearts, or Allah knows what is in our hearts. But we can't say Allah lives in our hearts. Allah is separate from His creation. He doesn’t have to be a part of it to know it. He is with His creation in knowledge of it by His Hearing (as-Samiy), His Seeing (al-Baseer) and His Knowledge (al-Aleem).





Statement of Allah in the Quran:

"Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you?" (V. 67: 16)

Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Whoever believes in Allah and His Apostle offers prayers perfectly and fasts (the month of) Ramadan then it is incumbent upon Allah to admit him into Paradise, whether he emigrates for Allah's cause or stays in the land where he was born." They (the companions of the Prophet) said, "O Allah's Apostle! Should we not inform the people of that?" He said, "There are one-hundred degrees in Paradise which Allah has prepared for those who carry on Jihad in His Cause. The distance between every two degrees is like the distance between the sky and the Earth, so if you ask Allah for anything, ask Him for the Firdaus, for it is the last part of Paradise and the highest part of Paradise, and AT ITS TOP there is the Throne of Beneficent, and from it gush forth the rivers of Paradise." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 519)

The verse from the Quran and the Prophet’s hadith clearly indicate as to where Allah resides.





Secondly, assuming you are aware of the virtues of the night prayer (Qiyam al layl), note in the following hadith it is stated that Allah ascends to the lowest heaven. The night prayer is dearer to Allah than any other as mentioned in the hadith after.

Abu Hurairah quoted that the Messenger of Allah, as saying:"Our Lord descends to the lowest heaven during the last third of the night, inquiring: 'Who will call on Me so that I may respond to him? Who is asking something of Me so I may give it to him? Who is asking for My forgiveness so I may forgive him?"

Anas quoted Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him), as saying:"Prayer in my mosque is equal to ten thousand prayers [elsewhere]. And prayer in the Sacred Mosque is equivalent to one hundred thousand prayers [elsewhere]. And prayer in the battlefield is equivalent to one million prayers [elsewhere]. And what is more than all of that is two rak`ahs performed by a servant [of Allah] during the middle of the night.". This is reported by Abu ash-Shaikh, Ibn Hibban in his work ath-Thawab, and al-Munzhiri, in his book at-Targhib watTarhib, is silent about it.”




Note that even at the time of prayer which is dearer to Allah than the rest, Allah descends to the lowest heaven but NOT even into the hearts of those who forsake their sleep to worship Him. How can Bulle Shah then have claimed Allah live in the hearts of men?




The Prophet (saw) said: “Alaa inna fil jasadi mudghah. Idhaa saluhat saluha jasadu kulluh, wa idhaa fasadat fasada jasadu kulluh. Alaa wa hiya al-qalb - Verily in the body there is a piece of flesh. If it is sound the entire body is sound but if it is corrupted the entire body is corrupted: behold, it is the heart!”




Is it befitting of a believer to think that Allah resides in a place where evil and corruption may make their abode? Surely not! Bulle Shah did not even attempt to distinguish in whose hearts Allah resides. Therefore his belief implies to all humans in general. It is an insult to suggest that the Holy One lives in the hearts of murderers, rapists, child abusers, evil doers and sinners.




Bulle Shah metaphorically placed mosques at the same level as pagan temples. Why? To denote that all men are equal regardless of their faith and what really matters is what is in their hearts – according to Bulle Shah Allah. Na udhu Billah!

Troubled Soul: Just like the Quran, You have to read the hadith to understand the meaning behind various verses.

The words of Bulleh Shah's poems are not the Quran and hadith. If anything they are against the teachings of orthodox Islam.

This man claims to neither be a sunni or a shia - meaning He doesn't believe in religion. What does that make him? I'll let you decide.


Here in his own words he declares:


Hindu na nahin Musalman
Bahe tarinjan tuj abhman
Sunni nahin na hum shia
Sulah kul ka marag liya


We are neither Hindus nor Muslims
We sit and spin leaving pride of creed
We are neither Sunnis nor Shias
We are non-violent towards everyone


Bulleh Shah repudiates his Sayed ancestry as follows:

Jim saanun sayad sadde dozakh milan sazaiyan Jira saanun rain akhe bahishtin peengan paiyan


He who calls us Sayed—let him be punished in hell He who considers us Ami n—he has put swings in Paradise Bulleh Shah was not only a social iconoclact, he also deviated from strict orthodoxy by dancing and singing which many Qadri sufis did not forbid. His ideas changed as he moved towards theosophical Sufism and his verses about him being a lover of God without being a Muslim or a Hindu are recited by people who believe that tolerance is the key to existence in the modern world.


http://www.worldpunjabicongress.org/bullehshah.html

Thanks Scents of Jannah for your information and correcting me , obviosly by saying Allah resides in our hearts means that in our heart we always remember Allah and love of Allah is in our heart.


Its simple the way of showing our love its just like that if a some one ask that from a per person that How much you love your wife the husband respond that my wife lives is in my heart , now no body will ask him how a 5 feet tall women lives in your heart becase they know its the way of showing love.

Any way i am not saying that Poetry of Bhullay shah is right or wrong and what actually its means , Allah know the best , the reason i am saying is that once i am school we misunderstood one sentence of peotry (its in urdu) and one of my collegae asked the teacher how could this possible , as what we are thinking the meaning was just against teaching of Islam and we are surprised how these words are came in our books but when teacher explains us then we understood on what we are wrong.

Regardign poetry of Bhullay shah i only hear first from you like these , no body ever say this so i always takes all the poetry positive just as i told you and i donot want to debate here as i donot have much knowlege of it.

Any way , thank for you information and correcting us ,

May Allah guide us to me , you and all of us to the true path.

Ameen PeaceandLove

This I think is the complete translation of the poem I mentioned above.

NEITHER HINDU NOR MUSLIM

Neither Hindu nor Muslim,
Sacrificing pride, let us sit together.
Neither Sunni nor Shia,
Let us walk the road of peace.
We are neither hungry nor replete,
Neither naked nor covered up.
Neither weeping nor laughing,
Neither ruined nor settled,
We are not sinners or pure and virtuous,
What is sin and what is virtue, this I do not know.
Says Bulhe Shah, one who attaches his self with the lord.
Gives up both hindu and muslim.


Partisans live in Dharamsalas, cheats in temples,
butchers reside in mosques;
while lovers (of the Lord) live apart.


Neither Hindu nor Muslim,
Sacrificing pride, let us sit together.
Neither Sunni nor Shia,
Let us walk the road of peace.
We are neither hungry nor replete,
Neither naked nor covered up.
Neither weeping nor laughing,
Neither ruined nor settled,
We are not sinners or pure and virtuous,
What is sin and what is virtue, this I do not know.
Says Bulhe Shah, one who attaches his self with the lord.
Gives up both hindu and muslim.
Partisans live in Dharamsalas, cheats in temples,
butchers reside in mosques;
while lovers (of the Lord) live apart


Beliefs that go beyond the Quran and Sunnah lead to shirk. Here is a video showing a young man kissing and bowing (clip 2:16 mins) at the tomb of Bulleh Shah. Na udhu Billah!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ2cI...eature=related

format_quote Originally Posted by Lisa0

Sufi's differ so don't paint them all with the same brush.

It's clear which type of 'sufi' we are discussing in this thread, hence there was no need to spell it out.

Troubled Soul: Finally, I think someone mentioned "Bilal Philips" on here, This person is affiliated with Dr Zakir Naik, A yazeed lover! His true colors were unveiled when he praised the KILLER of Imam Hussain hence I do not listen to people who hold such views...

When did Zakir Naik claim to love Yazeed?


Zakir Naik said, 'May Allah have mercy on him' during one of his speeches. He did this one basis that:

1. The majority of the Ulema have cautioned against cursing him based on the fact that it has not been established that Yazid himself killed Hussain (ra) or gave the order for him to be killed. Even if he did, this does make him a kaffir.

2. A muslim is forbidden from cursing the deceased.

3. There have been reports that he showed remorse at the actions of those who killed Hussain (ra).

4. There is no evidence, whereby Imaam Ghazali states that associating a sin against a muslim is not permissable without evidence.

5.. He goes on to say the killer/sinner may have repented before their death.


I agree with the views of Abu Muhammad Al-Maqdisi, and Ibn Taimyyah below. However Zakir Naik's comment does not make him a kafir or prove that he condoned Yazid's actions. You must remember he is only human and can make mistakes. he did not commit shirk or blasphemy. His work as a da'ee has done more good than harm inshaAllah.

Shaykh Al-Islam, ibn Taymiyyah, described people’s attitudes towards Yazid ibn Mu`awiyyah, saying: “People differed concerning Yazid ibn Mu`awiyyah, splitting into three groups, two extreme and one moderate.

One of the two extreme views said that he was a Kafir (non-Muslim) and a Munafiq (hypocrite), that he strove to kill the grandson of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, to spite the Messenger of Allah and to take revenge on him, and to avenge his grandfather `Utbah, his grandfather’s brother Shaybah and his maternal uncle Al-Walid ibn `Utbah and others who were killed by the Sahabah and by ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib on the day of Badr and other battles. To hold such a view is easy for the Rafidis (one of deviating groups) who regard Abu Bakr, `Umar and `Uthman as Kafirs, so it is much easier for them to regard Yazid as a Kafir.

The other extreme group think that he was a righteous man and a just leader, that he was one of the Sahabah who were born during the time of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and were blessed by him. Some of them accord him a status higher than that of Abu Bakr and `Umar; and some of them regard him as a Prophet.

The above two views are obviously false to one who has the least common sense and who has any knowledge of the lives and times of the early Muslims. This view is not attributable to any of the scholars who are known for following the Sunnah or to any reasonable person who has mind and experience.

However, the third view – which is the moderate one - is that he was one of the kings of the Muslims, who did good deeds and bad deeds. He was not born until the caliphate of `Uthman. He was not a Kafir, but it was because of him that the killing of Al-Husayn took place, and he did what he did to the people of Al-Harrah. He was not a Sahabi, nor was he one of the righteous devotees of Allah. This is the view of most of the people of reason and knowledge and of Ahl Al-Sunnah wal-Jama`ah.

Then the above group divided into three groups, one which cursed him, one which loved him, and one which neither cursed nor loved him. The last stance is what was reported from Imam Ahmad, and this is the view of the fair-minded among his companions and others among the Muslims.

Salih ibn Ahmad said: “I said to my father, some people say that they love Yazid.” He said: “O my son, is there any believer who believes in Allah and in the Day of Judgment and love Yazid?” I said: “O my father, why do you not curse him?” He said: “O my son, when did you ever see your father curse anybody?”

Abu Muhammad Al-Maqdisi said: “When he was asked about Yazid: ‘According to what I have heard he is neither to be cursed nor to be loved.’ He also said: ‘I heard that Abu `Abd-Allah ibn Taymiyyah was asked about Yazid and he said: We do not deny his good qualities nor exaggerate about them.’” This is the fairest opinion.” (Majmu` Fatawa Shaykh Al-Islam, part 4, pp. 481-484)”

Excerpted, with slight modifications, form: www.islam-qa.com

Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...#ixzz0cK28FQks

format_quote Originally Posted by Troubled Soul

Claiming it was a 'political war' when it clearly WAS NOT shows Zakir Naiks love for Yazid. Imam Hussain did NOT want to engage in war, he wanted to talk it out but no, the yazidi army not only killed Imam Hussain but his members of family and close friends aswell. They were starved, tortured, it was brutal and there is no doubting this

1. I'm not saying we should curse yazid. We shouldn't curse nor praise him..Yet Dr Zakir Naik praised him.... Why i wonder?

2. Read ^

3. 'reports'?

4. The yazidi army killed Imam Hussain. What more evidence do you want?

5. Allah SWT knows best

Brother, it's really absurd to suggest that zakir Naik's understanding that the war was political makes him a lover of Yazid. How did he praise him? The only account that I'm aware of is that he said 'may Allah have mercy on him.' It may be undesirable to make dua for someone who allegedly ordered the killing of the prophet's (saw) grandson. However according to some scholars there is no evidence of this and if Zakir Naik holds the same view then he did no wrong. All actions are judged by intention remember?

Only Allah knows what was in his heart. So it's better to leave the judgment to Allah. And even if he is wrong then make dua for him. I dislike the idea of turning against a muslim for one wrong while ignoring their good deeds.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lisa0

I'm glad it was so clear to you which sufis were being refered to in this topic but it may not have been as clear to myself or others who were reading this topic.
salam

Hamdulillah I'm glad it is now.

@ Troubled soul: This "deeper meaning" thing always irks me. If I have to to go into deeper meaning to make Islamic sense of bullay shah's poetry, heck, I can go into deeper meaning of kufri/shirki texts of Hindu vedas and upanishads and make them appear Islamic....as a caution, take things as they appear to be as you do not know what the intention of the doer was ... and going into "deeper meaning" then is pure conjecture.