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  1. #1
    Limited Member Array Kazu's Avatar
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    I want to believe but I just can't (OP)


    Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

    But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

    There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

    I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq

  2. #41
    Limited Member Samiul123's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Sister Kazu, the way I believe is through the Quran which you talked about. The Quran is the best book for why you should believe in god as a whole. You see in youtube as you type in a sura the people from far time throughout have recited the Quran's words for every sura the exact same way as you find a quran in a book. Inshallah sister you should study more and be guided ameen.

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  4. #42
    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by *charisma* View Post
    But we aren't talking about men marrying older women?? So I don't understand your point?



    Your link isn't working, but if you believe that all 9 year olds can be depicted in one picture you are in for a rude awakening. Also don't twist my words, men are attracted to attractive girls. If a 9 year old has the body of a 14 year old, then where's your argument?? Because these girls exist. Please expand your knowledge. Not all 9 year old girls look alike here. Secondly, if it's a rare thing for a man to be attracted to a 9 year old girl as you say, then what's the problem? If it's a rarity then you don't have to worry about it considering the cases would be quite individual and it wouldn't be your place to judge when you don't know all the details.




    Don't make me laugh...loooool "evolutionary drives." Go tell those who are having premarital sex that their "evolutionary drive" is failing them when they hit it and quit it. Where is the emotional and rational connection you speak of during those times?? looool subhanallah.




    No, it's not "extremely" dangerous. It just has some risks. Teen pregnancy is VERY common. Also if the hips are too small they can have a c-section.
    Sister leave the argument. This brother doesn't want to understand certain things. He looks at such things from a shallow modern way of life. Sees such things as black and white and from a western point of view. While I 100% agree with you that it isn't black and white. I see girls 14-15 years old having the body of a 30 year old women so being attracted to it well is being attracted to it. However when looking at their behavior being continuously on their smartphone like a child shows the shallow and childish mentality of today. Women even though around my age of today also very shallow minded are preoccupied by Kim Kardashian things. It is a doomed generation.

    In the past as an atheist I tried to date a western girl and I remember I seriously got so annoyed and even told her why are we even trying to hang out with each other. There is no real talk in our conversations...we have nothing in common ..all I hear from you is useless talk and I am seriously annoyed by it. I remember also if the amount of text that I type here and other members type in their comments..she would already be bored and stopped reading after 2-3 sentences. She even told be a lot of times. I don't get it how one can express themselves in 2-3 sentences?? I did not get it how other men are able to cope out with such shallow people. Or is it all for the sake of getting zina? How low have men become. Alhamdulillah I never could become like them even as an atheist as that wasn't part of my character I tried to mentally force myself to be like it but I just couldn't treat another human being like piece of garbage. Alhamdulillah for all the good that Allah has given me as part of my character.

    And you know what? She was about 2 years younger than I was. Society has be ome useless everybody like sheep following one another nobody is thinking and nobody is asking questions. The best is to seek refuge in your own homes.
    I want to believe but I just can't

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  5. #43
    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth View Post
    I don't think anyone on this thread is a scholar who is well learned on exactly what was the situation with Aisha (ra) and there are different takes on her age and consummation of the marriage (and no, I don't mean the apologist take). I don't think there is a man alive today who can even come remotely close to how fair, just and God fearing our prophet was. I truly don't believe there are any exceptions to marrying off a 9 year old in this age. Allahu Alim.

    Even if a girl is an early developer (I was one and so is my daughter), getting your first period doesn't mean you are fully developed. It takes years of menstruation and hormone fluctuations to get a fully developed womanly shape. I still had not developed a real womanly shape even 3 years after my first period. Also, early onset menstruation is actually a hormonal imbalance and girls with more adipose tissue than muscle tend to menstruate earlier. Adipose tissue stores hormones.

    In modern days, early onset menstruation it is known to be caused by the hormones and steroids in conventional dairy and meat products. Girls 100 years ago were starting to menstruate at about 14/15 years of age, imagine earlier times.

    And don't get me started about modern "medicine" and their lack of faith in Allah and how perfectly he created the human body. A pregnant body WILL ADAPT. There is no such thing as "hips that are too small". There are women who never get wide hips and give birth to very big babies. If we take care of the body properly, it will behave as it should.
    There are some scholars who say she was of that age there are others who say she was older. My approach is she was of the age of being a woman in Islam AND also agreed to marry Rasullah (saws).

    These two things are the ONLY VALID things from a valid point of view for a woman to marry. Forced marriages are haram so how could Aisha (ra) marry Rasullah (saws) if she did not agree to it?..That would have been contradictory to the message Rasullah (saws) was sending. Secondly she must be a woman again if she would not have been this would have been contradictory to the message of what Rasullah (saws) was sending. Knowing this..what was her age then? Allah knows best. Is it relevant for me to know? Absolutely not. If I would have a 25 year old daughter looking at her body looking like a woman but having a childish mentality I would NOT agree for her to marry. She would do herself, her husband and her children injustice of she would marry. This however is not reflected upon on the western world.
    I want to believe but I just can't

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  6. #44
    IB Oldtimer greenhill's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    I realised that my answer was too short but I was hoping that sister Kazu would watch the Jeffrey Lang video on Youtube as I believe it would help explain some of her own questions and perhaps doubts. But I guess she hasn't.

    If you are still wondering about Aisha, I heard (maybe read) where this narrative explained how, first of all the prophet loved and lived with a SINGLE woman, Khadijah until her death and sometime after, even. He was faithful to her although she was a divorcee. The prophet, pbuh, only became a polygamist AFTER Khadijah's death and even then for political alliances, freeing of slaves and also to make clear of laws of permissibilites. Never had the prophet have a 'special' woman for him that was a virgin except for Aisha that Allah had arranged for him. This, coupled with the fact that we should judge muslims by what is permissible in islam and not by what is acceptable by Western standards, means that there is really nothing to be really concerned abut.

    To add to this, sometime last week I came across a video of a third world country kid of probably 7 years old, taking care of an infant baby and the comments that were strewn by people from developed countries were words to the effect of "I wouldn't trust my teenagers to do this"! .. How come? It is not that the children are not capable, the west also knows this, England had children doing dangerous jobs during the times of the industrial revolution. The death rates and injuries doing the jobs were no different to those of adult labourers and is due to the lack in safety measures and not immaturity. In any case, exploitation is not good, and those kids were, hence the gradual laws to 'protect' them.

    Moving on a bit, you mentioned about innocent kids made to suffer and I would like to draw your attention to the story of Khidr and Musa pbut about the killing of the child (or was it both?), there are many stories from within the Quran that, if we studied more closely, gives glimpses of unseen logic, the Wisdom of Allah. Besides, we are not told to judge the affairs of others but to concern ourselves with our own matters. Our own matters has the number one duty as being Allah's humble and dutiful servant. This 'belief' would radiate outwards to how we would dictate our actions and speech. What happens to others are the test which Allah has set for them. What we should be realising is how fortunate we are not to be test such as theirs. We should thankful for having our lives in better shape than them, hence we could even go as far as saying our problems are pale in comparison and appreciate what Allah has given us (but not to forget to dua for those suffering)..

    Really, there are some more thoughts on the OP but it is getting long already...


    I want to believe but I just can't

    As long as my heart does beat, I shall live, not lie
    For when my heart does stop its beat, with truth, I die.

  7. #45
    IB Oldtimer M.I.A.'s Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu View Post
    Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

    But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

    There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

    I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq
    Bad things happen because our lives are always intertwined..

    People are unaware of what they do when they start or finish or anything in between..

    And most people get by just fine without that understanding.

    So you either open and close your own doors or hope..

    That something you have not met yet is a good doorman.


    Pray more

    Or play more..

    Allah swt raises and lowers as he wills.

    I aint ever seen a person turn up to football and get worse.

    ..so why would anyone be content with sitting on the sidelines getting fat.


    Heres waiting on the day.. to be told the truth of all that we did.

    But to be honest.. the truth is subjective..

    And i dont really know What you class as successful.. or what it costs.

    Mankind is insolence and competition..

    Not many people would lead you to a successful life..

    Although i suppose part of you already knows that.


    ...but if your empathy allows for locked doors then they come with there own struggles.

    See, a nice simple answer for ya.
    Last edited by M.I.A.; 05-14-2017 at 02:55 PM.

  8. #46
    Full Member TDWT's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by Simple_Person View Post
    Sister leave the argument. This brother doesn't want to understand certain things. He looks at such things from a shallow modern way of life. Sees such things as black and white and from a western point of view. While I 100% agree with you that it isn't black and white. I see girls 14-15 years old having the body of a 30 year old women so being attracted to it well is being attracted to it. However when looking at their behavior being continuously on their smartphone like a child shows the shallow and childish mentality of today. Women even though around my age of today also very shallow minded are preoccupied by Kim Kardashian things. It is a doomed generation.

    In the past as an atheist I tried to date a western girl and I remember I seriously got so annoyed and even told her why are we even trying to hang out with each other. There is no real talk in our conversations...we have nothing in common ..all I hear from you is useless talk and I am seriously annoyed by it. I remember also if the amount of text that I type here and other members type in their comments..she would already be bored and stopped reading after 2-3 sentences. She even told be a lot of times. I don't get it how one can express themselves in 2-3 sentences?? I did not get it how other men are able to cope out with such shallow people. Or is it all for the sake of getting zina? How low have men become. Alhamdulillah I never could become like them even as an atheist as that wasn't part of my character I tried to mentally force myself to be like it but I just couldn't treat another human being like piece of garbage. Alhamdulillah for all the good that Allah has given me as part of my character.

    And you know what? She was about 2 years younger than I was. Society has be ome useless everybody like sheep following one another nobody is thinking and nobody is asking questions. The best is to seek refuge in your own homes.
    Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.

  9. #47
    Eye Of The Tornado Simple_Person's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by TDWT View Post
    Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.
    There are people who say a woman of 40 shouldn't also marry a man who is 25 years old but what matters is what Allah has made permissible and what you are doing is looking from a shallow point of view as if people are "attracted" to children. The problem is not the ruling rather your mentality and how you look at. But anyways you are not able to understand what we are tying to say.
    I want to believe but I just can't

    "....Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves...." Qur'an 13:11

  10. #48
    IB Oldtimer M.I.A.'s Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't


    Quote Originally Posted by TDWT View Post
    Oh don't give me that excuse, that I am 'westernized' or something. This is my own mentality. We were talking about 9 year old and I don't think they should have sex at all, period.
    Historically, the age of marriage is debatable..

    Google it and you will find cases made for the young age of marriage.

    They are written by muslim authors but the case is made either way.

    And they are well written.

    Not muslim sources show a differing opinion from amongst themselves..

    Which is interesting.

    But yeah, it is a westernised opinion you hold and one that is the general consensus for the era.

    Like monogamy.

    But if you dont have to do something, then most people dont do it.. unless they have reason and intent..

    And those vary considerably.

    https://youtu.be/HsbWwXaujp8

 

 
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