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    Full Member Array Kazu's Avatar
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    I want to believe but I just can't (OP)


    Greetings people, Muslims and nons, no offense to the Muslims. I want to get this off my chest for a long time. I'm a closet ex-muslim, 22. Since childhood I had so many doubts about Islam, particularly about the existence of God himself. How can God let really evil things happen? if everything evil meant to happen because God wants to test us and given that the tests given aren't supposed to exceed our limit as humans, why do God let terrible things happen to children? There are cases some children were kidnapped from their houses, was gang-raped, and burnt to death. How was that a test? I may just be really ignorant for not making sense of this, kindly, please enlighten me.

    But then, after all of that, I would repent to Allah and became religious. I found myself always going back and forth. In the past, I used to cry in my sujood, I used to cry when reading the Koran, I used to be very careful with my thinking bcos I feared Allah so much. I loved Ramadhan very much, that's the only time I truly felt connected to Allah by doing extra prayers, learning stuff & taking care of my inner self. Normally people would usually dread bcos of the fasting, but really I loved Ramadhan, it truly made me a better person, but just like every other religion will make people become a better person. My family weren't very religious, so I searched God most by myself. But until I opened myself to the outer world, I started becoming friends with some non muslims, reading forums and articles etc. I changed my views on life, I became very liberal in my thinking, and this wasn't a good thing. I debated with my muslim friends and I just couldn't convince them anything bcos of how conservative they are. I heard religious teachers said on TV that Islam favors blind faith over logical thinking so Muslims shouldn't first and foremost use logic when dealing with religion. I couldn't believe what I just heard. If this is what humans should be, then I don't think the world could have advanced to what it is now.

    There are some controversial verses of Quran and Hadiths that I just couldn't make sense of, especially the part about the prophet's wife Aisha. I've had non muslims asking me about this, no matter how hard I tried to make sense, I know deep in my heart I was just convincing myself, not them. Aisha might be a smart, mature girl for her age, but sorry this is not excuse for pedophilia. Would you marry off your girl to a 50+ old man , just to be fair, assuming the man is not just plain old man, but handsome , looking younger than his actual age, very kind in heart and very religious, even with the girl's consent? Apologists will say this was acceptable at that time, but I thought Islam is supposed to be timeless as I was taught in school. If he is the perfect role model then I think all muslims should aspire to do the same thing as well. Child marriages is still an actual thing happening now and it strips off lives of young girls. Some of these girls suffer complications at childbirth like anal fistula because they are too young to give birth. Some cases girls die of internal bleeding because their sexual organs are not compatible. I understand that the girl needed to be checked whether they're ready to withstand penetration, I say this can be misjudged and girls are not born just to be penetrated.

    I became agnostic several months ago, I stopped praying 5 times. No, no satan is whispering on me. How can I blame the satan for my own actions? Tbh it left a void in me but this is just because I lost something I used to usually keep in my heart. I was like a meat lover who just became vegan. But after some while I felt normal like every other person but sad that I have to pretend to my family all of my life. I'm not really happy not believing in God, I want to believe spiritually, I want to be in heaven with all my loved ones, but with these flaws in religion I just couldn't. If there are anybody here who used to be atheists/agnostic, can you share how did you even make sense of this? I don't want to continuously pretend to everyone. Soo sorry for the length and Tq

  2. #81
    Eric H's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

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    Greetings and peace be with you Kazu;

    For example, I'm used to eating chicken but one day my mother forbids me doing so because she wants me to go vegan. Of course I'll be like NO. But she keeps insisting and I say yeah I'll do it. It'll feel really weird not eating chicken on a daily basis, and this I relate with my situation. This is just a possibility.
    You could turn into a secret chicken eater, and eat as much chicken as you like. You could find your ideal spouse and be happily married with children for years. You could find your ideal career on a 100k. But I believe you will still have the need to search for your creator.

    If you want to find Allah, you have to do something......................................... .......?

    May Allah bless you, and those you love and care for.

    Eric
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    I want to believe but I just can't

    You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.

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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Greetings,

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    You could turn into a secret chicken eater, and eat as much chicken as you like.
    That's the point. I can keep coming back to eating chicken if I want to. But I gotta do what I gotta do because of some reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    You could find your ideal spouse and be happily married with children for years. You could find your ideal career on a 100k.
    Who can guarantee?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    But I believe you will still have the need to search for your creator.

    If you want to find Allah, you have to do something......................................... .......?
    On what basis? Not eating chicken doesn't mean I have a chicken void. It's just something I get used to.
    I can search for god all I want but if he doesn't exist, whats the point?
    You're claiming something exist so it's your burden to prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric H View Post
    May Allah bless you, and those you love and care for.

    Eric
    Bless you.

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    Kazu's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by STN View Post
    @Kazu

    I hope you read my post with some thought and not skim over it. Because i just had an epiphany, a realization after reading the first page completely and skimming through the rest of the thread and i realized there is one problem atheists, agnostics, disbelievers have and there is NO WAY they can ever believe if they hold on to that problem, that thinking. I believe this is Shaytaan's trick or maybe just human's stupidity or both but arguing with few atheists now, i see this problem and it is in you.

    Are you still reading me?

    I can write and write and write about how with complete certainty Allah exists and Prophet Mohammad(SAWW) the last messenger, SubhanAllah everything screams of Allah's existence and as i learn more about the world, my faith becomes stronger and stronger, May Allah keep increasing my faith.

    But sister, it will not have an effect on you...not an atom's worth.

    I can refute your argument with so much logic that you will stupid but then you will come up with another argument and i will do the same and so on and so forth. This is not going to have an effect on you.

    You know why all of this is futile? It's for one simple reason

    These are my words, a human's words. I can't convince someone to give me a 100 dollar donation even if my life depended on it, how in the hell will i convince someone to have faith.

    And that's when i realized what the solution is.

    Read the Holy Quran WITH UNDERSTANDING

    I have not seen a single atheist attempt to refute Holy Quran. Why not? WHY is it so difficult to find one contradiction in a book revealed in 600AD era to an illiterate man Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) in an era of ignorance.

    Science has advanced so much, why is this book still superior to science?

    How is it still preserved.

    How is everything it said being confirmed to be accurate with today's science (embryology, astronomy, m theory, multiverses, - http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links )

    Why hasn't there been another book created that is similar to this one? You know how many years, era, civilizations have passed from 7th century to 2017 ? How many enemies of Islams have died who tried their best?

    You know i am a born Muslim الحمد لله and i have been practicing as a kid then not so much and you know what brought me back to Islam ? The Holy Quran and of course Allah's guidance, someone showed me a video how Holy Quran describes black holes, i was shocked.

    All reading isn't the same, you must have just recited the words when your heart was being swayed by Kufar...that isn't going to do you any good. Read WITH UNDERSTANDING

    Read tafsir of Ayats and the full context of it.


    But like i said, my words aren't going to have any effect.

    It's pathetic honestly, every atheist says oh i am looking for the truth but they will not read the Holy Quran or even try to refute it. Go and do it, try to understand and then refute it if you can. You will fail miserably and scream لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله because Holy Quran is a miracle and it is from Allah.

    But nope, the atheists love to argue...big bang bla bla. Right, explain Holy Quran to me. Leave the universe you geniuses, explain this book to me that is right in front of you!, explain it if you can.

    Nope, big bang bla bla, monkeys to humans so how come the bacteria and fungi and virus (especially HIV) who evolve in a matter of seconds never evolved to a human? or something else? Like from Adam(A.S) to 2017, bacteria have been evolving, their evolution isn't slow like ours...it's rapid (ever heard of drug resistance?) so how come they haven't evolved to something else in all this time? The Shaytaan says to atheist oh ----, this guy knows his ----...lets switch to another stupid argument

    the big bang bla bla

    Honestly, this is all they have to go on. And you know why this works so well for them ? Because it is in past and they know nobody can prove or refute it with science.

    -----------------------

    I am still going to answer somethings in your question that i also thought about and then as i grew up, i answered for myself.

    How hard is it to believe in Allah ? لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله Are these words so hard ? But of course to an oppressor and kafir, these are. Think about this, you are blindly believing a man's blabber of atheism about big bang, about evolution but you are denying the Creator Allah who is worthy of ALL PRAISE and you don't even acknowledge Him (Nauzbillah). What has men left you? And what has Allah (SWT) left you? The Holy Quran - a miracle of miracles yet you deny it without even researching it.

    You deny it without even researching it, if that is not an unjustice of the extreme kind then i don't know what is. It is an oppression on your soul and why? Have you tried to explain how Holy Quran is still existing, have you thought about it and tried to understand it ? I know you haven't. You will spend more time and effort on useless worldly things.

    If i create something (and i or any human isn't able to) but suppose i did and it tried to do whatever it came to its mind, you know what i would do ? Smash it into so many pieces. Ponder upon this, your deviant behavior and attitude, has anything happened to you ? NO Allah (SWT) is still giving and giving and giving until there will come a time when He will ask you and that's Judgement Day.

    Other members explained martyrdom for people unjustly died and oh what a great rank and status that is. May Allah grant me martyrdom, Ameen.

    Oh in the end, you are very wrong about muslims blindly following Islam. I wasn't a practicing Muslim until i turned 28, nobody forced me to, i wish it had been sooner, i was i was practicing since the day i first gained consciousness.

    My advice to you is go and look in the world. Go and wander in the earth, visit places, look at the stars and the sky. Sit in a place for 30 minutes and ponder about the world, can you find it in yourself to believe that this majestic universe came into existence by itself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Kazu

    I hope you read my post with some thought and not skim over it. Because i just had an epiphany, a realization after reading the first page completely and skimming through the rest of the thread and i realized there is one problem atheists, agnostics, disbelievers have and there is NO WAY they can ever believe if they hold on to that problem, that thinking. I believe this is Shaytaan's trick or maybe just human's stupidity or both but arguing with few atheists now, i see this problem and it is in you.

    Are you still reading me?

    I can write and write and write about how with complete certainty Allah exists and Prophet Mohammad(SAWW) the last messenger, SubhanAllah everything screams of Allah's existence and as i learn more about the world, my faith becomes stronger and stronger, May Allah keep increasing my faith.

    But sister, it will not have an effect on you...not an atom's worth.

    I can refute your argument with so much logic that you will stupid but then you will come up with another argument and i will do the same and so on and so forth. This is not going to have an effect on you.

    You know why all of this is futile? It's for one simple reason

    These are my words, a human's words. I can't convince someone to give me a 100 dollar donation even if my life depended on it, how in the hell will i convince someone to have faith.

    And that's when i realized what the solution is.

    Read the Holy Quran WITH UNDERSTANDING

    I have not seen a single atheist attempt to refute Holy Quran. Why not? WHY is it so difficult to find one contradiction in a book revealed in 600AD era to an illiterate man Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) in an era of ignorance.

    Science has advanced so much, why is this book still superior to science?

    How is it still preserved.

    How is everything it said being confirmed to be accurate with today's science (embryology, astronomy, m theory, multiverses, - http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links )

    Why hasn't there been another book created that is similar to this one? You know how many years, era, civilizations have passed from 7th century to 2017 ? How many enemies of Islams have died who tried their best?

    You know i am a born Muslim الحمد لله and i have been practicing as a kid then not so much and you know what brought me back to Islam ? The Holy Quran and of course Allah's guidance, someone showed me a video how Holy Quran describes black holes, i was shocked.

    All reading isn't the same, you must have just recited the words when your heart was being swayed by Kufar...that isn't going to do you any good. Read WITH UNDERSTANDING

    Read tafsir of Ayats and the full context of it.


    But like i said, my words aren't going to have any effect.

    It's pathetic honestly, every atheist says oh i am looking for the truth but they will not read the Holy Quran or even try to refute it. Go and do it, try to understand and then refute it if you can. You will fail miserably and scream لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله because Holy Quran is a miracle and it is from Allah.

    But nope, the atheists love to argue...big bang bla bla. Right, explain Holy Quran to me. Leave the universe you geniuses, explain this book to me that is right in front of you!, explain it if you can.

    Nope, big bang bla bla, monkeys to humans so how come the bacteria and fungi and virus (especially HIV) who evolve in a matter of seconds never evolved to a human? or something else? Like from Adam(A.S) to 2017, bacteria have been evolving, their evolution isn't slow like ours...it's rapid (ever heard of drug resistance?) so how come they haven't evolved to something else in all this time? The Shaytaan says to atheist oh ----, this guy knows his ----...lets switch to another stupid argument

    the big bang bla bla

    Honestly, this is all they have to go on. And you know why this works so well for them ? Because it is in past and they know nobody can prove or refute it with science.

    -----------------------

    I am still going to answer somethings in your question that i also thought about and then as i grew up, i answered for myself.

    How hard is it to believe in Allah ? لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا ٱلله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱلله Are these words so hard ? But of course to an oppressor and kafir, these are. Think about this, you are blindly believing a man's blabber of atheism about big bang, about evolution but you are denying the Creator Allah who is worthy of ALL PRAISE and you don't even acknowledge Him (Nauzbillah). What has men left you? And what has Allah (SWT) left you? The Holy Quran - a miracle of miracles yet you deny it without even researching it.

    You deny it without even researching it, if that is not an unjustice of the extreme kind then i don't know what is. It is an oppression on your soul and why? Have you tried to explain how Holy Quran is still existing, have you thought about it and tried to understand it ? I know you haven't. You will spend more time and effort on useless worldly things.

    If i create something (and i or any human isn't able to) but suppose i did and it tried to do whatever it came to its mind, you know what i would do ? Smash it into so many pieces. Ponder upon this, your deviant behavior and attitude, has anything happened to you ? NO Allah (SWT) is still giving and giving and giving until there will come a time when He will ask you and that's Judgement Day.

    Other members explained martyrdom for people unjustly died and oh what a great rank and status that is. May Allah grant me martyrdom, Ameen.

    Oh in the end, you are very wrong about muslims blindly following Islam. I wasn't a practicing Muslim until i turned 28, nobody forced me to, i wish it had been sooner, i was i was practicing since the day i first gained consciousness.

    My advice to you is go and look in the world. Go and wander in the earth, visit places, look at the stars and the sky. Sit in a place for 30 minutes and ponder about the world, can you find it in yourself to believe that this majestic universe came into existence by itself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some parts of my post got double posted, wish there was an ability to edit posts
    Greetings.. I understand you mean really really well. I'm very thankful for that.

    But, I could say the same thing to you. I admit I haven't read the quran's translation fully yet (I have read it in arabic fully many times before) but yes I have read only a part of the translation and I found some errors (at least in my position as an agnostic where I don't claim something exist). Yes I have read the quran translation with understanding to the point I'm crying and crying while reading it because of God's compassion in these scripture, the beauty of the quran, this is what Allah wants for me. I admit I don't fully have the knowledge as the atheists in these youtubes and sites like their monkeys, bigbangs, universe theory bla bla bla. I have soooo many daily commitments and I'm only in my early 20s, so I don't have enough time yet to know everything. I'm humble enough to say I don't know everything and I don't want to be arrogant to say 'God doesn't exist for a fact" because it's not. I don't know for a fact. You could say my religion is the 'Possibilities' religion. I'm not your typical atheist. I wouldn't be so arrogant to accept if god does exist. If I find enough reasons to believe in quran and allah, I will do it.

    But you know what?

    Even if I point out the 'supposedly' errors in the quran, you could come up with so many reasons to refute this. And if you point out the errors in my thinking, I could come up with so many reasons to refute it. What's the point? This is never-ending. You already have a preconceived believe in islam so I can't go everywhere you go but at least I can understand where you're coming from. But you can't understand where I'm coming from because in your thinking me as a kuffar already have this disease in my heart. I understand why you believe what you believe. If I'm a muslim, of course I'm going to believe what you believe because it's going to make the most sense to me. How am I supposed to believe in shaytaans' effect on me if I'm not a believer in the first place?

    To clarify my position, what I'm doing is not trying to convince anyone in this forum to join my club. But all I'm trying to do is trying to get people on the same page of me (at least just understand it) before even discussing islam at all. My first post was long ago about few months back and I was in cognitive dissonance. And I came back this month after regaining my composure, looking in at nature, taking care my health and my relations with people, I am much calmer now. But I know if I found calm in being agnostic/atheist doesn't mean it's the definite real thing. Now I came back while in the state I have completely lost my faith in islam now. But you won't understand it because all these people advising me to go out in nature and ponder are all assuming I had think the certain way that Islam wants me to. What if the outcome of my pondering is different? People would just keep telling me to go ponder again and again until I reach your level. The real problem is if I live in an Islamic country, they won't let me have this freedom to think and just kill me instead. This is just one reason why islam in my thinking is probably not true because of it's direct impact.

  6. #84
    Kazu's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    It's as if your saying that Muslims don't "understand" other beliefs hence why they are so firm in believing what they do.
    Definitely not. What I'm saying is muslims don't 'understand' others' beliefs hence why they aren't able to reach/tackle the heart of these non-believers (while you can keep your belief firm at the same time.).

    You need to tackle your own root of problem before if you want to reach out the hearts of these non-believers that you so believe have disease in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Is it not possible to "understand" a belief and reject it just as you "understood" and have rejected? Are you seriously saying that all "born" Muslims have never doubted their faith hence never looked into other beliefs and faiths before solidifying their own beliefs? That is certainly not the case. I can say for certain that many Muslims look into other faiths and beliefs before coming to the conclusion that Islam is without doubt the truth.
    Yes exactly. My point is your point. I'm sorry what are you trying to get here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Why do more people than any other faith or belief (or lack of belief) revert to Islam? Many of them have come from Hinduism, mostly from Christianity, Buddhism and many also from Atheism/agnosticism/deism.
    You don't know the statistics. Neither do I. But our ex-muslim community is definitely growing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    They "fully" understood disbelief and aspects of disbelief in what you mentioned ie Trinity, pantheism, reincarnation, atheistic/deistic beliefs but they found the truth in Islam.
    Exactly. My point is I have yet to come to that point.

    And the rest of your points I already addressed in my replies to other posters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Only you can make the necessary effort to find belief by opening your heart in terms of totally submitting your will to Allah like you did before
    Hopefully.

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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick84 View Post
    The three monotheistic faiths spread across different parts of the world, all claiming one message, and that to submit to the one God. Some of them even confirming each others scriptures - surely there is some sort of truth ther?

    So criminals murders rapists etc who have never been brought to justice that are roaming the earth, will just be let off scott free? They will just die and not be brought to justice? Should we all begin living like animals then? How do we then define what is right and wrong? Is it just plain human instincts, morals and values? Why can I just not go around and sleep with anyone and spread my STIs, cause corruption in the land, rip people off, steal, make millions of dollars, secretly kill and burn people I don't like and not get caught.



    What's going to happen to me? absolutely nothing? Gosh, this sounds too good to be true. I guess we only live once, so make the most of it yeah?
    Greetings..
    I already addressed this in my earlier posts


    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick84 View Post
    But what also is very much possible, something billions of people across the world claim to have have some sort of "evidence" of, is that we may come before God. So what would you rather do? I know what I would do, and that is cover my bases, and believe in the unseen.
    I do too

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    Hamza Asadullah's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu View Post

    To clarify my position, what I'm doing is not trying to convince anyone in this forum to join my club. But all I'm trying to do is trying to get people on the same page of me (at least just understand it) before even discussing islam at all. My first post was long ago about few months back and I was in cognitive dissonance. And I came back this month after regaining my composure, looking in at nature, taking care my health and my relations with people, I am much calmer now. But I know if I found calm in being agnostic/atheist doesn't mean it's the definite real thing. Now I came back while in the state I have completely lost my faith in islam now. But you won't understand it because all these people advising me to go out in nature and ponder are all assuming I had think the certain way that Islam wants me to. What if the outcome of my pondering is different? People would just keep telling me to go ponder again and again until I reach your level. The real problem is if I live in an Islamic country, they won't let me have this freedom to think and just kill me instead. This is just one reason why islam in my thinking is probably not true because of it's direct impact.
    Kazu why is it that you feel the need to keep going forum to forum and face to face with Muslims about wanting them to "understand your disbelief" or be at your "neutral" point being disbelief? What will you gain out of that? Why can you not just get on with your life as you are now and let others get on with theirs? Why is it that you just cannot let it go?

    Can you see now why certain apostates land themselves in trouble in certain countries because they feel the need for others to also disbelieve as they do. But know that whatever happens to apostates in other countries then you cannot blame Islam because of the actions of other people. There is no Shariah at present in this world for anyone to say "Islam did this". In a Shariah system people cannot take things into their own hands as everything is done in accordance with strict Islamic rules in a court.

    You claim to not want others to "join" your club but then you are being reluctant that other Muslims should "understand your disbelief" and be at your "neutral point in disbelief", and when I asked you how this possible if they are firm believers and cannot possibly understand your disbelief, then you give contradictory statements. You are essentially saying that you want people with firm belief to "forcibly" put aside their firm beliefs in God and his commands and somehow feel disbelief, confusion, pain and disillusionment as you do. What will they gain out of that? Your just not making any sense. You claim to be "free" yet you are clearly more "trapped" than you have ever been.

    Just like any other atheist/deist/agnostic your being very contradictory and confusing. You claim to want to feel faith again and to be in heaven with loved ones etc but then on the other hand you have rejected all advice for you to accept Imaan in God and in his divine wisdom, and instead you are constantly adamant to remain "firm" in your disbelief as well as being reluctant that others with firm belief in God and his commands also come to your point in disbelief. Then you talk about a "growing" number of apostates. There have always been and always will be apostates because Allah in his divine wisdom takes away Imaan and also gives imaan to whomever he wants. However there are far more people coming to Islam than leaving and more so than any other faith, belief - or lack of - in this world. Alhamdulillah.

    Therefore I think this is the end of the road for you for now. You have made it clear you are going to remain firm in your disbelief and that your sole aim and purpose here is for others to be where you are right now in "understanding and being at your neutral point" being disbelief. It is pointless having any more "to and from" with you as you know you will not budge from your disbelief and as I have already stated - none of us can unseal your heart and give you guidance - however we have given you sufficient advice and enough to ponder and contemplate over and the rest is now up to you to go and ponder/reflect/contemplate do your research etc and if you feel any different then certainly come back and we can discuss matters further with you again.

    Best of luck with your search and may Allah guide you to the truth and unseal your heart. Ameen
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 07-19-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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    I want to believe but I just can't

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    Kazu's Avatar
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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    Kazu why is it that you feel the need to keep going forum to forum and face to face with Muslims about wanting them to "understand your disbelief" or be at your "neutral" point being disbelief? What will you gain out of that? Why can you not just get on with your life as you are now and let others get on with theirs? Why is it that you just cannot let it go?
    As I said, I'm already leaving this forum as it is futile. So why you ask. I want to help you to figure out your own root of problem instead of just mine. You seems so ego and incapable of understanding other people. Maybe it's because you're the moderator of this site and you can't let people seeing you surrender to someone so low as me? I don't know, I hope not. Maybe by helping you out, you will know what kind of approach/strategy to use if some lost ex-muslim come asking advice from you next time. About what I just can't let go? is the mentality of some muslims, this way I think you're just not doing dawah the right way. If you wanna know your dawah is effective or not you have to ask the person you're doing dawah to, am I right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    There is no Shariah at present in this world for anyone to say "Islam did this".
    That's what you think. Now you living in the UK, have you ever lived under sharia? Do you know what it's like to live under madhabs? yes I know madhabs and sects are different. While madhabs don't kill or hate each other, the existence of different madhabs in different countries have created many problems. Living in a secular country, freedom destroys freedom. But whatever, as a muslim you have to support this system anyway as it is in your belief to do so.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hamza Asadullah View Post
    You claim to not want others to "join" your club but then you are being reluctant that other Muslims should "understand your disbelief" and be at your "neutral point in disbelief", and when I asked you how this possible if they are firm believers and cannot possibly understand your disbelief, then you give contradictory statements. You are essentially saying that you want people with firm belief to "forcibly" put aside their firm beliefs in God and his commands and somehow feel disbelief, confusion, pain and disillusionment as you do.
    You don't need to be me to understand me. I don't need to be you to understand you.

    Right now, I feel that it is really futile to make you understand me, as it is very futile for you (in your thinking) to make me understand you and Islam.

    Anyway thank you for all the knowledge, advice, compliments, criticism the people in this forum gave me. May I find God in the future.

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    Re: I want to believe but I just can't

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu View Post
    As I said, I'm already leaving this forum as it is futile. So why you ask. I want to help you to figure out your own root of problem instead of just mine. You seems so ego and incapable of understanding other people. Maybe it's because you're the moderator of this site and you can't let people seeing you surrender to someone so low as me? I don't know, I hope not. Maybe by helping you out, you will know what kind of approach/strategy to use if some lost ex-muslim come asking advice from you next time. About what I just can't let go? is the mentality of some muslims, this way I think you're just not doing dawah the right way. If you wanna know your dawah is effective or not you have to ask the person you're doing dawah to, am I right?
    It is "futile" each and every time you try and convince and "corrupt" other Muslims minds into rejecting God and his wisdom so they can disbelieve as you do.

    What really frustrates you and apostates like you is the fact that most believing Muslims are so firm on their faith that they will never waiver from it, nor reject Allah and his divine wisdom like you do in disbelief. Apostates are not happy with their own situation and so they want others to also be where they are so they can somehow justify their own beliefs in order to "settle" their hearts alittle. But this will never happen Kazu. You will never be satisfied nor content with what you believe until you totally submit your will unto Allah and rid your heart of this arrogance that is making you reject him and his divine wisdom.

    You say I cannot see others "surrender" to someone like you? Is that the purpose as to why you are here in order for us to "surrender" to your arguments? In fact what has been exposed throughout this thread is your inconsistent, contradictory and incoherent statements and arguments.

    You talk about giving dawah to people like you, but as I have already stated, that there are some people who will never believe no matter how many people try and convince them and even if evidence is laid out in front of them because they have a seal on their hearts. Therefore we cannot unseal any heart nor is guidance in our hands.

    However we have advised you sufficiently enough for you to go and contemplate, ponder and research properly and really look deep within yourself for the truth. Ask of Allah by raising your hands unto him and do not be of those who arrogantly reject for no reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu View Post
    That's what you think. Now you living in the UK, have you ever lived under sharia? Do you know what it's like to live under madhabs? yes I know madhabs and sects are different. While madhabs don't kill or hate each other, the existence of different madhabs in different countries have created many problems. Living in a secular country, freedom destroys freedom. But whatever, as a muslim you have to support this system anyway as it is in your belief to do so.
    The last Shariah ended in 1924 so none of us have ever lived under a Shariah.

    Yes we have different Madhabs in the UK and across the world and as far as I know, no one has ever killed another due to the Madhab they follow, which clearly exposes the fact that you know not what a Madhab is.

    Well actually many "Moderate and liberal" Muslims nowadays also do not support Shariah because like you they have been sold by Anti-Islamic rhetoric which only conveys lies against Islam and the Shariah. In fact many of the systems we have today have taken things from the Islamic Shariah. The difference between Shariah and secularism is that Shariah is the divine law of God for the betterment of the whole of mankind. Whereas secular systems are only for the benefit of the elite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazu View Post
    You don't need to be me to understand me. I don't need to be you to understand you.

    Right now, I feel that it is really futile to make you understand me, as it is very futile for you (in your thinking) to make me understand you and Islam.

    Anyway thank you for all the knowledge, advice, compliments, criticism the people in this forum gave me. May I find God in the future.
    First you say that we do need to "understand" you and be at your "neutral" point in disbelief and now you are saying we don't? Again contradictory statements.

    As I have already said I wish you the best with your search and may Allah open your heart to the truth and may you come back with full Imaan. Ameen

    Thread closed
    Last edited by Hamza Asadullah; 07-19-2017 at 09:26 PM.
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    I want to believe but I just can't

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