It is halal to wish to die at young age and not to live long?

format_quote Originally Posted by AbdurRahman.

Ibn Taymiyah got it wrong big time broThere are 2 ways to look at his above view. 1 he could have changed it before he died. 2. Since he was a Scholar we don't say this view is kufr but only a bidah as sincere taweel mitigates it from the level of kufr In ahlus sunnah, not to believe desbelievers will abide in jahannum eternally is kufr as Quran is very clear that kuffar remain in hell forever1) matters about Islam that everyone knows, which even a child raised among Muslims would know, technically termed ma‘lum min al-din bi d-darura or “necessarily known as being of the religion”; (2) matters that not everyone knows; (3) and matters that are disagreed upon even by “those who know,” the ulema or scholars. Affirmation or denial of tenets of faith within each category vary in their eternal consequences because of their relative accessibility, and the individual’s opportunities to find them out. Things That Everyone Knows To deny anything of the first category above constitutes plain and open unbelief. It includes such things as denying the oneness of Allah, the attributes of prophethood, that prophetic messengerhood has ended with Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace); the resurrection of the dead; the Final Judgement; the recompense; THE EVERLASTINGNESS OF PARADISE AND HELL; ...Any Muslim who denies something that is necessarily known to be of the religion of Islam is adjudged a renegade and an unbeliever (kafir) unless he is a recent convert or was born and raised in the wilderness or for some similar reason has been unable to learn his religion properly.https://archive.org/stream/NuhHaMimK...akfir_djvu.txt

yes, some of the scholars besides him had this opinion

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

https://rasoolurrahmah.wordpress.com...0%2C7057109462

You are quite cheeky. I knew from the moment you made your first post this was what you planned all along. But a person who follows the deviated sects, what else can be expected from your likes.

And that is why I never respond to you anymore. You have no idea what you post. You copy paste whatever you find through Google. And you honestly don't have any concrete knowledge.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

https://rasoolurrahmah.wordpress.com...0%2C7057109462

Oh no, now what to do?! I started to believe in something else. How can I protect my belief?? Is that maybe because the devil knows that I'm too credible and maybe he likes to play with me?? I don't like this life anymore, I don't like even the fact that I was born. I even lost my headset today which was expensive and I feel bad about it, I don't know how I can protect my faith in Islam from lies and disbelief and deception, I don't know how to work myself to gain more strength in my faith. The only thing I do is I pray x5 a day on fixed times, that's all I do. I'm really in big trouble now. Don't take as if I blame you, I blame myself because I'm weak Muslim.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

https://rasoolurrahmah.wordpress.com...0%2C7057109462

Now to further highlight your ignorance of the subject. I am going to love this.


What Ibn Taymiyyah wrote in that book is obscure. Here is his clear explicit texts regarding the matter in the other books which azc would obviously not know given his complete inability to thoroughly research a subject.


Ibn Taymiyyah said in الصفدية:

al-Jahm was the first one who made apparent this saying in Islaam and his Qiyaas was that that which has a beginning then that must have an end. Therefore, he said that Paradise and the Fire will end. And this is what the Salaf of the Ummah and the 'a'immah of the Ummah rebuked him for.



He says in his book بيان تلبيس الجهمية

The Salaf of the Ummah are unanimously agreed and so are its 'a'immah and all of the ahl al-Sunnah that from among the creation are those things which will never end in entirety such as Paradise and the Fire, the 'Arsh and other things. No one has said that all of the created things will end except for a group from among the deviants of the scholars of kalaam such as al-Jahm bin Safwaan and those who agreed with them from among the Mu'tazila (majority of whom were Hanafis) and their likes. And this is a baatil saying which opposes the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the His Messenger and the Ijmaa of the Salaf of the Ummah and its 'a'immah.



As usual azc has proven he cannot rsearch a subject but is great at turning this forum into a link farm.

format_quote Originally Posted by AbdurRahman.

Ibn Taymiyah got it wrong big time bro

There are 2 ways to look at his above view. 1 he could have changed it before he died. 2. Since he was a Scholar we don't say this view is kufr but only a bidah as sincere taweel mitigates it from the level of kufr

In ahlus sunnah, not to believe desbelievers will abide in jahannum eternally is kufr as Quran is very clear that kuffar remain in hell forever:

(1) matters about Islam that everyone knows, which even a child raised among Muslims would know, technically termed ma‘lum min al-din bi d-darura or “necessarily known as being of the religion”;

(2) matters that not everyone knows;

(3) and matters that are disagreed upon even by “those who know,” the ulema or scholars.

Affirmation or denial of tenets of faith within each category vary in their eternal consequences because of their relative accessibility, and the individual’s opportunities to find them out.

Things That Everyone Knows

To deny anything of the first category above constitutes plain and open unbelief.

It includes such things as denying the oneness of Allah, the attributes of prophethood, that prophetic messengerhood has ended with Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace); the resurrection of the dead; the Final Judgement; the recompense; THE EVERLASTINGNESS OF PARADISE AND HELL; ...

Any Muslim who denies something that is necessarily known to be of the religion of Islam is adjudged a renegade and an unbeliever (kafir) unless he is a recent convert or was born and raised in the wilderness or for some similar reason has been unable to learn his religion properly.


https://archive.org/stream/NuhHaMimK...akfir_djvu.txt

He didn't get it wrong.

You ppl can't research a subject. You have Google as your Sheikh and copy paste things from those who opposed him and disliked him because he put their deviant Kalaam to waste.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

https://rasoolurrahmah.wordpress.com...0%2C7057109462

This doesn't prove anything. The quran specifically says forever regardless of anyone's opinion.

format_quote Originally Posted by *charisma*

This doesn't prove anything. The quran specifically says forever regardless of anyone's opinion.

agree. Their opinion isn't acceptable

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

@ZeeshanParvez :

''Al-Albani is quoted to say:

“Ibn Qayyim has a second opinion according to which Hellfire will never end. Ibn Taymiyya has a book refuting those who say Janna [Paradise] and Jahannam [Hell] will cease to exist. At that time [20 years ago] I thought that Ibn Taymiyya shared this second opinion of Ibn Qayyim. The author al-San`ani, with what he has quoted from Ibn Qayyim, explains that the above mentioned refutation [written by Ibn Taymiyya] is not against those who say Hellfire will end, but it is against the jahmis who say Paradise will cease to exist and he [Ibn Taymiyya] states that Hell will cease to exist. Moreover, he does not state only this, but states also that the people of Hell will enter paradises with rivers flowing under them after Hell ceases to exist.”

Source: Introduction to al-San`ani’s Raf`al-Astar, p. 7.

If you are going to quote someone and attempt to use him to prove a point you don't have, at least have the decency to quote in full what he said. Again, that is hard to expect from Googlies who do not even read the book they quote from!


Sheikh al-albaani further says in the same book which you, azc, never read!


ولعل ذلك كان منه إبان طلبه للعلم وقبل توسعه في دراسة الكتاب والسنة وتضلعه بمعرفة الأدلة الشرعية في الوقت الذي كان يحسن الظن بابن عربي الصوفي القائل بأن عذاب الكفار في النار لا يستمر بل ينقلب عليهم إلى عذوبته يتلذذون بها كما في (حادي الأرواح) (2 / 168) فلما تبين له حاله رجع عنه كما تحدث بذلك هو نفسه فقال كما في (مجموع الفتاوى)


(paraphrase) And perhaps that was during his time of seeking knowledge and prior to his study of the Book and the Sunnah becoming vast and his becoming proficient in regards to the understanding of the legislative evidences and was during the time when he had good conjecture of Ibn 'Arabi the Suufi who would say that the torment of the Kaafirs in the Fire will not persist but will turn into sweetness which they will enjoy. And when his (Ibn Arabi's) state became apparent to him (i.e. Ibn Taymiyyah) he made rujuu and made this clear in his Majmuu al-Fataawaa.





What Subki says holds no weight because he was a staunch bigoted enemy of Ibn Taymiyyah. You don't go to ones enemy and ask them about them. You Hanafis cry a river when are reminded that Imaam al-Bukhaari declared Abu hanifah weak in hadiith (along with the majority of the scholars of hadiith) and say no you can't use what they say because they were bigots against him but here you violate your own principle and go running to see what Subki says about Ibn Taymiyyah. What double standards.



My advice to you. Stop quoting the enemies of a person. That is a joke. Read his books. Then, you will know what he said. Quite clearly you haven't read any books you have quoted azc.



You simply copy paste haphazardly from all over the Internet.

It is enough for a man to be declared a liar that he keeps spreading what he hears!


And at this point I would like the audience to contemplate this. The likes of Subki bash Ibn Taymiyyah for what they accuse him of saying but declare Ibn Arabi the greatest Sheikh despite him being known to hold this belief which has been declared by mainstream scholars as Kufr. Double standards at there best.

And once again read the words of Ibn Taymiyyah himself in regards to this matter which I posted earlier and have to re post since you don't read.





Ibn Taymiyyah says in his book بيان تلبيس الجهمية

The Salaf of the Ummah are unanimously agreed and so are its 'a'immah and all of the ahl al-Sunnah that from among the creation are those things which will never end in entirety such as Paradise and the Fire, the 'Arsh and other things. No one has said that all of the created things will end except for a group from among the deviants of the scholars of kalaam such as al-Jahm bin Safwaan and those who agreed with them from among the Mu'tazila (majority of whom were Hanafis) and their likes. And this is a baatil saying which opposes the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the His Messenger and the Ijmaa of the Salaf of the Ummah and its 'a'immah.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

Could it not be possible that after speaking the truth al albani might have tried to defend his imam and what imam subki said was the correct opinion?

Further evidence that you have not read the book but cherry pick quotes from the Internet and post them. Honestly, do the right thing and apologize for the blunder you made. Sheikh al-albaani isn't the type of person who defends anyone other than the Qur'aan and Sunnah.


If you had read his book, instead of copy pasting off the net, you would have known. So, let me educate you as to what he says in the book which shows that he does not defend anyone.


وليس لأحد أن يتبع زلات العلماء كما ليس له أن يتكلم في أهل العلم والإيمان إلا بما هم له أهل فإن الله تعالى عفا عن المؤمنين عما أخطؤوا كما قال تعالى: {ربنا لا تؤاخذنا إن نسينا أو أخطأنا} قال الله: قد فعلت (1) . وأمرنا أن نتبع ما أنزل إلينا من ربنا ولا نتع من دونه أولياء وأمرنا أن لا نطيع مخلوقا في معصية الخالق ونستغفر لإخواننا الذين سبقونا بالإيمان فنقول: {ربنا اغفر لنا ولإخواننا الذين سبقونا بالإيمان}

No one has the right to follow the mistakes of the scholars just like he does not have the right to speak in regards to the scholars except with that which they are the ahl of. For Allaah has forgiven the believers for their mistakes. He says: Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred (Qur'aan 2:286) [And in a hadiith in Sahih Muslim] Allaah says: I have done so. And we have been ordered to follow what has been sent down to us from our Lord and not to follow others and that we do not follow the creation in that in which there is disobedience and that we ask forgiveness for our brothers who have preceded us in faith. He says: Our Lord, forgive us and our brothers who preceded us in faith and put not in our hearts [any] resentment toward those who have believed [Qur'aan 59:10]


If you had read the book, and not just copy pasted something of a website which lies about Ibn Taymiyyah, you would have known who Sheikh al-albaani really is and that he does not defend anyone.

But you have to read his book to know he does not defend anyone.

Rather, he attempted to understand what Ibn Taymiyyah said and then offered good conjecture about him. He wasn't defending him as you assumed. You assume because you do not read the material. This is what people who do not research a matter correctly do. They assume.


So, here is why he said what he said about Ibn Taymiyyah from his book. If you had read it you would not need to assume. You would have known.

By assuming you even attributed things to Sheikh al-albaani which he never said or meant to do.

Please stop assuming.

Read the book then make comments. Otherwise, don't forget that a man who narrates everything he hears is a liar. Do you want to be a liar?

Sheikh al-albaani says in the book:

وإن مما يمنع توجيه الطعن في ابن تيمية لقوله بفناء النار علاوة على ما ذكرنا آنفا أن له قولا آخر في المسألة وهو عدم فنائها كما سبق بيانه بالنقل عنه. وإذا كنا لا نعلم أي القولين هو المتأخر فمن البدهي أن الطاعن لا بد له من الجزم بأنه هو الأول ودون هذا خرط القتاد وأما نحن فإن حسن الظن الذي أمرنا به يقتضينا بأن نقول: لعله القول الآخر لأنه موافق للإجماع الذي نقله هو نفسه فضلا عن غيره كما تقدم وقد يؤيده هذا أن ابن القيم نقله أيضا كما بق في قصيدته (الكافية الشافية) فالظاهر أنه مات على ذلك لأنها قرئت عليه في آخر حياته فقد ترجمه الحافظ ابن رجب الحنبلي في (طبقاته) وذكر في آخرها ما يشعرنا بذلك فقال

(paraphrase since this forum has had individuals who can't tell the difference between a paraphrase and a translation) And that which stops one from rebuking Ibn Taymiyyah is what we have mentioned earlier that he has another saying in the matter (which I have posted three times but azc refuses to acknowledge or read because it proves him so wrong) which is that the Fire will not end. And when we do not know which of the two sayings of the scholars is the last one then we cannot rebuke him or say with certainty that this is the first. As for us, then we judge by the good conjecture we have been ordered to have which dictates that his last saying was that which is in accordance to the Ijma he himself transmitted let alone anyone else and what further strengthens this is that Ibn al-Qayyim also transmitted it. The zaahir is that he died upon that.



This is why Sheikh al-albaani said what he said about Ibn Taymiyyah azc! Not because he was defending him. He was acting in accordance with the Qur'aan and Sunnah and having good conjecture. But how would you know that since you never bothered to read the book and just copy pasted what someone else chopped and pasted on his website.

Is this academic research or is this an attempt to cherry pick what you like?


And for a third time, let's see what Ibn Taymiyyah explicitly said in the matter.


The Salaf of the Ummah are unanimously agreed and so are its 'a'immah and all of the ahl al-Sunnah that from among the creation are those things which will never end in entirety such as Paradise and the Fire, the 'Arsh and other things. No one has said that all of the created things will end except for a group from among the deviants of the scholars of kalaam such as al-Jahm bin Safwaan and those who agreed with them from among the Mu'tazila (majority of whom were Hanafis) and their likes. And this is a baatil saying which opposes the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the His Messenger and the Ijmaa of the Salaf of the Ummah and its 'a'immah



And on a closing note I did not know you azc also had the talent of judging by someones posts if the person is angry or not

format_quote Originally Posted by xboxisdead

That is wrong. I do not believe those scholars.

Allah promised forgiveness for all your sins except ONE and that is Shirk or Kufir (disbelieve). It couldn't get any clearer than that. Anyone who dies disbeliever, non-Muslim, Atheist, Mushrik, etc will live eternal hellfire forever to abode. Allah (Subhananu Wa Talaa) even used the word "forever" when he mentions disbelievers in hellfire.

Here is what I know with certainty that hellfire will get hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter (forever and ever and ever) in summer season and colder and colder and colder and colder (forever and ever ever) in winter season. What I know also is that when the weather in hellfire changes it is faster than speed of light when it switches between summer and winter season. There are no clouds like the Earth in hellfire and there are no moon or sun or grass cheppering birds. There is one tree called the Zakuum that have fruits shaped like the heads of devil that the disbelievers will be forced to eat and it will cut their inside and shred them to pieces but will not solve their hunger problem. Hellfire will not disappear and pharaon and criminals and disbelievers and mushriks will rejoice and enter paradise after a certain time. No. They will abode in hellfire forever and eternally...the gate of hellfire will be closed and never be opened again once all the the Muslims and believers with an atom size leave it and enter paradise. Death itself will be killed and the people of paradise will rejoice for they will be forever living in paradise and people of hellfire will be in tears and sadness for they will be forever living in hellfire.

People who have heard of Islam...didn't bother to seek and learn about Islam....and died worshipping Jesus or declare him (authobillah) son of God or believe God is a male or female and worship false Goddesses or worship the stars or worship the anything but Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) and dies in that state...hellfire is their abode eternally. In the day of resurrection they will not be giving a chance to repent. A great example to that is one of the prophets is a friend of Allah (Subhanahu Wa
Talaa). When he will be resurrected and his father comes to his son (the prophet) with his face in darkness with all the punishment he got in the grave and begs his son to talk to Allah to forgive him and when the son (prophet) does, Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) tells him to look behind him and when he dies he finds his father is now a horrible looking animal and that animal is thrown in hellfire. He will live abode in hellfire forever and ever and when the son goes to paradise he will laugh and be happy he is not amongst the people of hellfire (even if he does see his father suffering in front of him). For Allah (Subhananhu Wa Talaa) can remove the sadness in people's heart when they enter paradise.

Please do not take shirk and kufir lightly.

absolutely right I also agreed.

format_quote Originally Posted by azc

agree. Their opinion isn't acceptable

Then why was it even brought up especially when it is a very rare statement without validity.
This actually seems quite sinister on your part especially in a thread that does not need it.