Array
Ok, I'm done beating around the bush and just going to be honest now. Can human evolution be reconciled? I mean, there is so much evidence for it, and the DNA evidence that humans and apes share a common ancestor. In response, Yasir Qadhi said that maybe god made it appear that humans evolved or some domino effect. I heard it is against the quran closely but I am not sure. I post this here as this is where most people are, so what are thoughts?
We didn't come from Apes. IMO, whenever I see into evolution, I see soo many "Leaps of faith", LITERALLY.
Take for example "We came from Apes" I say "How did we ??" How did the CELLS know what to do and where did the information come from? there are sooo many assumptions, that are taken without question. There is literally no critical thinking when people are taught evolution.
I see no critical thinking. I rather believe in Allah. Makes sense, and actually answers my questions.
Pe
Allahu alam.
Lol, it wouldn't make much sense for me to say that "I don't believe in cups or saucers but I believe in Allah",
But if I said that men and women are the same, and that I also believe in evolution, that would be illogical and irrational and my orwellian situation would be one of confusion and self deceit.
The body has an immune system which evolves every nano-second, and traits are then also passed on as inheritance to an extent.
Allah clearly tells us in the Quran that Jesus was born and evolved in the womb, he evolved from a child into a man, yet his example is that of Adam. Savvy? (As scimi and jack birdie would say).
My aim here is not to argue with you but to clarify my observations and let people think for themselves.
Qadr and freewill are a lot more difficult to comprehend than the obvious evolution of species, yet we observe it with amazement rather than incredulity.
-
2:117- He is the One Who has originated the heavens and the earth, and when He wills to (originate) a thing, He only says to it: ‘Be,’ and it becomes.
3:47- Maryam (Mary) submitted: ‘O my Lord, how shall I have a son when no man has ever touched me?’ He said: ‘Just as Allah creates what He pleases.’ When He decides (to do) some work, He just gives it the command ‘Be,’ and it becomes.
[B]
3:59- Surely, the example of ‘Isa (Jesus) in the sight of Allah is the same as that of Adam whom He formed from clay, then said (to him): ‘Be.’ And he became.
6:73- And He is the One (Allah) Who has created the heavens and the earth (in accordance with His decreed celestial order based) on truth. And the Day when He will say: ‘Be,’ then it will come into being.
His Word is the truth. And His will be the sovereignty on the Day when the Trumpet will be blown (by Israfil). He (is the One Who) has the knowledge of the unseen and the seen, and He is All-Wise, All-Aware.
16:40- Our command for a thing is but only this much that when We intend (to bring) it (into existence), We say to it: ‘Be,’ and it becomes.
19:35- It is not Allah’s Glory that He should take (to Himself anyone as) a son. Holy and Glorified is He (above this)! When He decrees any matter, He only says to it: ‘Be,’ and it becomes.
36:82- His command (of creation) is only that when He intends (to create) something, He says to it: ‘Be,’ so it instantly becomes (existent or visible and continues becoming).
40:68- He is the One Who gives life and causes death. Then when He decides upon a thing, He says to it only: ‘Be,’ so it becomes.
Chapter (5) sūrat l-māidah (The Table spread with Food)
- [l]
Say, "O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?"
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah?
(It is that of) those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."
[/I]
Quran, Chapter 5, Verse 60
Interesting critters considering the fact that the Prophet pbuh was a shepherd of sheep some 1400 years ago and that we find both critters to be very close in terms of dna proximity.
Edit: appears that some humans are getting ready to devolve in a few generations again.......
No wonder we were learning about beebop and rocksteady in after-school sessions with the t.v....Since they are the closest relatives to humans, non-human primates were first considered as a potential organ source for xenotransplantation to humans. Chimpanzees were originally considered the best option since their organs are of similar size, and they have good blood type compatibility with humans, which makes them potential candidates for xenotransfusions. However, since chimpanzees are listed as an endangered species, other potential donors were sought. Baboons are more readily available, but impractical as potential donors. Problems include their smaller body size, the infrequency of blood group O (the universal donor), their long gestation period, and their typically small number of offspring. In addition, a major problem with the use of nonhuman primates is the increased risk of disease transmission, since they are so closely related to humans.[17]
Pigs are currently thought to be the best candidates for organ donation. The risk of cross-species disease transmission is decreased because of their increased phylogenetic distance from humans.[18] They are readily available, their organs are anatomically comparable in size, and new infectious agents are less likely since they have been in close contact with humans through domestication for many generations.[19] Current experiments in xenotransplantation most often use pigs as the donor, and baboons as human models.
In the field of regenerative medicine pancreatogenesis- or nephrogenesis-disabled pig embryos, unable to form a specific organ, allows experimentation toward the in vivo generation of functional organs from xenogenic pluripotent stem cells in large animals via compensation for an empty developmental niche (blastocyst complementation).[20] Such experiments provide the basis for potential future application of blastocyst complementation to generate transplantable human organs from the patient's own cells, using livestock animals, to increase quality of life for those with end-stage organ failure.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenotransplantation
That verse about apes and pigs appears to be a very serious warning.
Still, who would say no to a loved one ne getting a chimp or pig transplant if they had a life threatening injury? Probably not me. But I would definitely ensure they got a guaranteed non-reversible vasectomy first.
Last edited by Abz2000; 04-03-2017 at 05:10 PM.
Honestly, Creation in Islam is easy to digest.format_quote Originally Posted by Zeal
But these competing theories of evolution, are not
Scimi
format_quote Originally Posted by ScimitarHonestly, Creation in Islam is easy to digest.
But these competing theories of evolution, are not
Scimi
If you can reconcile qadr and a'mal, it shouldn't be too difficult to reconcile certain events taking place in paradise, and re-playing in a different lonf drawn our manner on earth.
It's a lot easier to reconcile creation and qadr with intelligent choice struggle and practiced discipline during evolution of species than it is to reconcile unrestrained feminism and evolution of species, and the male is not like the female.
I recall the movie "twins" starring the stronger swarchenegger and the smaller danny davito, when thinking of it in parables, it appears that the producers knew more than they expounded, when I recall the identical sets of twins at the end and remember the story of the marriages of Adam and Hawwa's offspring - I just smile.
003:036 Khan
:
Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allah knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allah) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast."
003:037 Khan
:
So her Lord (Allah) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariya (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrab to (visit) her, he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allah." Verily, Allah provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."
[/B]
The goodly food that we eat.
Does Allah feed us even though it comes through a process.
Understanding Allah requires elevated thought processing - and still we never cease to be surprised.
Life's a funny thing, with a mill-i-on surpri-ses,
Life's a funny thing, when a wise man real-i-ses,
That only a fool would believe he had it all worked out.
I also found this compiled material though it is mostly without source:
The Reason for Eve's Creation
Adam knew the names of everything. Sometimes he talked to the angels, but they were preoccupied with worshiping Almighty Allah. Therefore, Adam felt lonely. One day he slept and when he awoke he found, near his head, a woman gazing at his face with beautiful, tender eyes. Perhaps they had the following conversation:
Adam: You were not here before I slept.
She: Yes.
He: From what...?
She: I came out of you. Allah created me while you were asleep. Do you not desire to restore me to you while you are awake?
He: Why has Allah created you?
She: To be your solace.
He: Thanks to Allah I was feeling lonely.
Eve's Name
The angels asked him her name. He replied: "Eve (Hawwa)." They asked: "Why did you call her Eve?" Adam said: "Because she was created of me, and I am a living being." (The root of the name Hawwa" means "living things.")
Adam Sees Eve
Ibn Abbas and a group of the companions of the Prophet narrated that when Iblis was sent out of Paradise and Adam was accommodated therein, Adam was alone in Paradise and did not have a partner from whom he could get tranquillity. He slept for some time and when he woke up, he saw a woman whom Allah had created from his ribs.
So he asked her: "Who are you?" She replied: "A woman."
He asked: "Why have you been created?" She replied: "So that you could find tranquillity in me."
The angels, trying to find out the extent of his knowledge, asked him: "What is her name, 0 Adam?" He replied: "Eve."
They asked: "Why was she so named?" He replied: "Because she was created from something living."
Eve's Creation
Muhammad Ibn Ishaaq and Ibn 'Abbas related that Eve was created from the shortest left rib of Adam while he was sleeping, and after a while she was clothed with flesh. That is why Allah the Exalted said: 0 Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women. Surah 4: 1
Allah also said: It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He created from him his wife (Eve), in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her. Surah 7: 189
http://www.alim.org/library/biograph...ion%20of%20Eve
(11) - وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ ثُمَّ جَعَلَكُمْ أَزْوَاجًا ۚ وَمَا تَحْمِلُ مِنْ أُنْثَىٰ وَلَا تَضَعُ إِلَّا بِعِلْمِهِ ۚ وَمَا يُعَمَّرُ مِنْ مُعَمَّرٍ وَلَا يُنْقَصُ مِنْ عُمُرِهِ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ ۚ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرٌ
And Allah created you from dust,
then from a drop;
then He made you mates.
And no female conceives nor does she give birth except with His knowledge. And no aged person is granted [additional] life nor is his lifespan lessened but that it is in a register.
Indeed, that for Allah is easy.
And this from quora:
Though it did make me wonder how hens continually lay eggs without the presence of a male.Genetic Engineering: Is it possible to clone an opposite-gender version of yourself?
A normal male has two sex chromosomes, an X from his mother and a Y from his father;
a normal female has two X chromosomes, one from each parent.
You can create a female version of a man by replacing the Y chromosome with a second copy of the existing X chromosome. However, note that the resulting woman could not be his genetic "sister", since the woman has no X component from the original man's (and, I suppose, her) father, which his sisters would inherit. In other words, the resulting woman cannot be the biological child of the original man's parents.
The reverse direction doesn't work at all. If you were to create male version of a particular female individual, you would need to obtain a Y chromosome and its associated DNA, which is missing from the original woman's genome. A reasonable source would be the woman's father. Although the result would be, essentially, the male version of the woman, you are still introducing a small amount of new genetic material. Also, by replacing an X with a Y chromosome, you may express phenotypes from the remaining maternal X chromosome that were previously overridden or influenced by the paternal X. For instance, the genes for red and green color receptors in the eye are located on the X chromosomes. If the woman originally inherited faulty color genes from her mother but normal ones from her father, she would have normal color vision. However, by replacing the paternal X with a Y, which has no genes for color receptors, the resulting male "semi-clone" would be red-green colorblind.
https://www.quora.com/Genetic-Engine...on-of-yourself
And this on Islam123 attributed to fath al bari; God knows why the author thought that Prophe's couldn't have wer dreams.
A second myth is that people believe that Ya'juj and Ma'juj were created from Adam without Eve (Hawa) on the basis of Ka'ab's narration, "They are from the children of Adam. That is Adam had a wet dream, the semen intermingled with the earth and they were created from that Earth." (Fathul-Bari)
It should be noted that this narration is very weak and objectionable as it is proven from many Ahadith that the Prophets of Allah do not have wet dreams because the wet dream is from the devil and the Prophets of Allah are protected from the devil.
Secondly there is a hadith which can be found in Fathul-Bari that clearly states that they are from the progeny of Prophet Nuh. The Prophet Nuh was definitely from the children of Adam and Eve.
http://www.islam123.in/2010/07/yajuj-majuj.html?m=1
One word bro,format_quote Originally Posted by Abz2000
Israliyah.
Scimi
Israiliyyah does talk of Gog and magog as a unisol like force, in the book of joel chapter 2.
Beebop and rocksteady are being slowly introduced to the masses in line with propaganda and surveys too:
It may seem like something straight out of a Sci-Fi Movie such as "The Matrix," having a baby be grown completely outside of a mother's womb. Yes, technology has taken us to the level where the egg and sperm can be fertilized in a lab, to create the embryo, and even frozen if necessary. But as far as growing the actual fetus outside the womb this is something that wasn't possible outside of a movie; that is until now.
A research team in Tokyo is working on growing the fetuses of goats in what can only be described as an artificial womb. Within this unit, the fetuses are given oxygenated blood through tubes that are similar to an umbilical cord. The fetuses also exist and grow within liquid similar to the amniotic fluid that is kept at the necessary body temperature to sustain the fetus. The environment is made as similar to that of the mother's womb as possible.
http://www.disclose.tv/news/The_Arti..._MATRIX/114199
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2...ealth-science/
Last edited by Abz2000; 04-04-2017 at 11:52 AM.
Assalaamu alaikum MisterK,format_quote Originally Posted by MisterK
Mmm... you do realize that this is a declaration of blind faith...? (I mean that it is not based on any kind of evidence)
God Bless.
Last edited by MuslimInshallah; 04-06-2017 at 09:30 AM.
I have heard Islam is very accepting of scientific thought
Scimitar liked this post
Considering it was the Muslims who formulated the Scientific Method,format_quote Originally Posted by praisetoallahYES!
Scimi
Is the idea of human evolution bad? Or haram ?
You may be surprised at how far some creatures have come in learning:
What do you think/know about this ayah?
76:1 "There surely came over man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning."
As a matter of fact,format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT
Evolution lacks evidence.
It is a theory.
See many youtube videos in this regard.
I hate to tell you, Schimi, but those scientists do not deny evolution or universal common descent. They only challenge that blind natural selection is the primary vehicle of evolution. From that website:format_quote Originally Posted by ScimitarMisterK,
You make claims to authority, while ignoring or remaining unaware of the following Scientists who rejected Evolution.
http://www.discovery.org/scripts/vie...oad.php?id=660
24 pages full of signatories, and all these scientists were authorities in their respective fields.
....
You should study their reasons for denying evolution. I fail to see how you justify this evolution as a fact given the number of signatories from authority
Scimi
"Whenever talking about challenges to “evolution,” it’s vital to carefully define terms, otherwise confusion can result. There are three common usages of the term “evolution”:
- Evolution #1 — Microevolution: Small-scale changes in a population of organisms.
- Evolution #2 — Universal Common Descent: The idea that all organisms are related and are descended from a single common ancestor.
- Evolution #3 — Darwinian Evolution: The view that an unguided process of natural selection acting upon random mutation has been the primary mechanism driving the evolution of life.
No one doubts Evolution #1, which is sometimes called “microevolution.” Some scientists doubt Evolution #2. But the Scientific Dissent from Darwinism list only concerns Evolution #3, also called Darwinian evolution or Darwinism. "
"Random Mutation" or we have no idea but things just mutated.
It's not as simple. This is a topic right up my alley and i think there is some truth mixed with speculations and lies.
Did humans come from apes and monkeys ? NO WAY it is impossible even if you just think of it scientifically. As a muslim i whole-heatedly believe what Allah says and it is also closer to logic.
Is natural selection true ? Yes
Is mutation true ? Yes
What i think has happened is science was still backwards in Darwin's era, he saw something and made this big conclusion that because some species look alike they came from one ancestor. If the knowledge of micro-organism and their mutations was as advanced as it is now and of DNA, he wouldn't have made this rather stupid claim.
But his theories has some merit, for one natural selection in animal kingdom makes sense and is prevalent. But does that mean species evolve to another completely different species? No, not at all. It's just not possible scientifically, the number of mutations needed for that are far too numerous and somatic cell changes (non-sex cells) don't necessarily pass on to gametes.
And i believe if evolution had any merit, you would see one bacteria change to another. Because the rate of their mutations("evolution") is far too fast than ours...we take one year(nine-months) for one generation whereas bacteria and micro-organism takes a few minutes - E-Coli divides in 20 minutes and their rate of growth is exponential.
Will E.Coli ever mutate or evolve to S.Aureus or any other species? Huh, anyone with slight knowledge will know that NOT every mutation is beneficial to the organism. Bacteria that become drug-resistant and select these specific genes that favor them against drugs aren't fit in a normal environment without drugs and can't compete against bacteria with normal genetic makeup. They get wiped out by other competing bacteria. They have an advantage in a host or environment with no other competing organisms and the drug eradicating susceptible bacteria.
^Now just imagine that. These small mutations that are actually favorable in an environment are a disadvantage when in a normal environment. Darwin and these ape lovers didn't take competition into factor but how could they? they thought malaria was caused by bad air at the time.
Then there's mutations that are unfortunate and just bad.
And lastly, here's something darwin was clueless about
CANCER
You know what happens to big animals when they mutate uncontrollably? Yeah right, apes mutated just the right amount and introduced the right amount of new genes and deleted the right amount of genes to become humans. Like there has to be thousands of genes that had to be mutated with the perfect combination for a human to come into existence and it gets even better, a female ape mutated at the same time or did that human have sex with a gorilla? Well, wow...things sure decided to defy science that day and the human felt attraction to an ape, decided to just ---- it and lo and behold, science decided to take a vacation that day and the kid that was born was a human baby which was not sterile and it also decided to just say lets not be an ape anymore and become this human genes which i am completely clueless about but i'll do it anyway to please ape lovers.
I don't think they have thought this through and i pity the people's intelligence if they believe this.
You know what happens when things mutate in a human and big animals? Cancer. There are super controlled checks against mutations, extremely controlled checks and then there are extremely vigilant control mechanisms and immune cells that destroy any cells which mutate or fail to "accept orders" to put it simply - from the body.
Like how do you even dare to believe that mutations after mutations with the perfect combination evading cancer, defects and sterility and against all odds (those were some impossible odds) did an ape mutate to a human?
But STN, the dna is similar...that must mean my father is an ape or a donkey. Well yours must be not mine.
Look this is what i believe and makes the perfect sense and it is the only truth. It makes sense scientifically, logically, spiritually and doesn't require lies to make-believe.
The Almighty, The All-Powerful Allah (SWT) created humans and all the creatures(animals/plants) in the world. We are allowed to eat them. Their DNA is similar to ours so it would not be foreign to us and it will be compounds and chemicals our body recognizes already so it can get nutrition from it. Indeed, if you look every living thing from smallest like viruses to biggest rely on the same compounds for food. Carbohydrates, sugars, fat etc. and same compounds for carrying out their metabolism - proteins, lipids etc. And our immune system recognizes and can defend against them.
Imagine if other creatures had an alien building blocks, not dna, not carbon, something that old movie has "Outbreak" with dustin hoffman in it. Can you imagine how detrimental that would have been to us?
And this makes the perfect sense to me. Of course Allah knows the wisdom and reasoning behind this and i could be very wrong. This is just my thinking though.
It is sufficient for me what Allah says and i believe in it.
It's interesting that the theory of evolution in Europe also coincided with the rising of socialism and Godlessness. For eons of years all over the world people believed that one God or many gods created everything. But when socialism was dreamed up things must have "evolved" and we are all the decedents of monkeys and we are all equal and we are all one big happy family under the universal world state "Kum bye ya"! I don't buy it people.
I got a pile of scrap metal out the back and I'm waiting for it to "evolve" into a Ferrari. Chemicals in the soil and a few lightning strikes in the right places and give it some time....I don't know how it is going to paint itself though... oh yes ochre comes from rocks, a red Ferrari, perfect.
STN liked this post
Zafran,format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran
Random mutations are caused by errors in the transcription of DNA when a cell replicates.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topi...f-mutation-409
Darwin did not know this at the time, he merely posited that random mutations occur based on the differences we see in members of the same species. The discovery of random DNA errors is considered to be a huge chunk of supporting evidence for evolution theory.
--Dan Edge
- - - Updated - - -
Greetings,
In my opinion, Darwinian evolution is now as firm a scientific principle as Newton's Laws of Gravity. This wasn't the case when Darwin first put forth his theory, but subsequent discoveries -- particularly the existence of DNA -- have greatly strengthened his argument. We see what can be considered evidence of evolution everywhere, and there are currently no workable competing theories. Scientists have every incentive to assume the truth of Darwinian evolution until something better comes along. I keep in mind, however, that Newton's Laws of Gravity, as timeless as they seemed, have been superseded by Einstein. There is no such thing as 100% certainty in science.
Sincerely,
--Dan Edge
The truth is that a single cell is so complex that it cannot create itself even under the best circumstances, like chemicals, energy etc . My pile of scrap turning into a Ferrari is more likely to happen. Believe it or not.
- - - Updated - - -
You are obviously a Bolshevik, as this is a Muslim Forum and Allah created everything, please do not peddle the false science of evolution here. To be scientific you must witness the process not speculate from limited data. And Newton's law of gravity is specific to one place and one time. He has no knowledge of inter dimensional and trans dimensional space, let alone hyperspace interspace drive. DNA, RNA, or whatever, cannot create itself.format_quote Originally Posted by DanEdge
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks