A'salamu alaykum.
Anonymous poll.
And, is there anywhere that teaches the 4 Maddhabs simultaneously, so as to compare and contrast them? And just generally learn about them
Hanbali
Maliki
Shafi'i
Hanafi
None
Array
A'salamu alaykum.
Anonymous poll.
And, is there anywhere that teaches the 4 Maddhabs simultaneously, so as to compare and contrast them? And just generally learn about them
Snow liked this post
This has been long and partly quite difficult discussion to understand for a layman like I. But this is as a summary as I have understood it:
If I follow one maddhab, it can´t be fundamentally different than other maddhab but it has to follow the basic principles of Islam. If someone else follows other maddhab, it has to lead to to same than some other maddhab and it has to follow Islam anyway. Both are right as we can´t say that some maddhab is wrong and some is right.format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth
Well, as I wrote, I am layman. Don´t beat me after this post.
yes, but some key board warriors defy the 4 madhabformat_quote Originally Posted by sister herbThis has been long and partly quite difficult discussion to understand for a layman like I. But this is as a summary as I have understood it: If I follow one maddhab, it can´t be fundamentally different than other maddhab but it has to follow the basic principles of Islam. If someone else follows other maddhab, it has to lead to to same than some other maddhab and it has to follow Islam anyway. Both are right as we can´t say that some maddhab is wrong and some is right. Well, as I wrote, I am layman. Don´t beat me after this post.
If you are sound minded and with safe eemaan then when you read the words "pitfall" for the ahaadeeth of the Final Prophet Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam, you must show gheera for it!!! But it didn't affect you. In fact this group of yours seem to be working as organized group to push away muslims from the Quraan and Sunnah with the excuse of madhahib. The posts of many of you are an existing proof of that attempt of yours!!! Yours and your friends' posts put light on the eemaan in the very depth of your hearts!!!format_quote Originally Posted by azc
First read my post attentively, comprehend and then use keyboard to reply... Show me what I've written ''wrong'' about hadith..? Put your comments there.format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
Fard and waajib
Although some people make difference between fard and waajib but they are the same because these are obligatory for all Muslims even during travelling. These must be prayed on proper time, if missed their qada is obligatory. During travelling, if 4 these become half i.e.2. If 2 or 3 then all must be prayed during travel.
Sunnah are not like fard and waajib so these can be left during travel (2 sunnah in fajar is the exception). Also, if missed, their qada is not made (but the qada of the 2 fajar sunnah is made on the same day before zuhur). Their importance is also very great. There are Sunnati mokdah and sunnati ghair mokdah. 12 sunnah daily in five prayers (fajar=2, zuhur=6, maghrib=2 and ishaa =2) are sunnati mokdah. The Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam always prayed them. He said that if a Muslim prays the 12 mokdah sunnah.on regular bases, he/she shall get a palace in Jannah. Also He said that the 2 sunnah before fajar are more valuable than dunya wa ma feeha (the 2 sunnah before fajar are more valuable than this world and whatever is in it). Only from this hadeeth we can know the importance of the sunnah in prayers. Also, we must remember that the fajar 2 sunnah must be prayed during travel.
The ghair mokdah sunnah are those which the Prophet salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam often prayed but sometimes didn’t pray. These are 4 before Asar and 4 before ishaa.
In addition to the above, there are 2 more sunnah which are optional and are after the 2 sunnati mokdah of zuhur i.e. in the end of the zuhur prayer. We are informed in a hadeeth shareef that anyone who prays them, on him/her the Fire of Hell will be haraam!!!
Mustahab=desired, recommended. Nafal, nawaafil are something extra which is not fard or waajib. These are optional but are suggested for more benefit. If we do not pray them, there is no sin. But if we pray we will get more reward. So the sincere suggestion is that we must earn some more reward because our fard prayers may not be up to the passing standard, then these extra nafal prayers will be added to the reward.
This information is enough for a practicing Muslim. Stories beyond that are not required.
@nbegam : My Q was regarding arkan and shara'it of salah though but you couldn't grasp it. Anyway, now I ask on what you've written. : prove from any Hadith which specifically clarifies these ''terms''. E.g. 4/2 rakah salah before/after zuhur salah is ''Sunnah''. Show me only one hadith which says ''praying 4/2 rakah is SUNNAH'' don't write scholars' opinion. This word ''Sunnah'' must be mentioned in hadith.
Last edited by azc; 01-26-2017 at 05:29 PM.
Assalaam alaikum bro azc.
format_quote Originally Posted by ScimitarAre we in agreement as "laymen"? or is this also a scholarly opinion?format_quote Originally Posted by azc
(trick question bro)
- if you answer "as laymen", then you are also guilty of what you claim we who do not ascribe to a madhab do, which is form an educated opinion based off our own research.
- if you claim it is a scholarly opinion, then present the evidence in sha Allah. This also opens a can of worms.
Scimi
Last edited by Scimitar; 01-26-2017 at 08:01 PM.
format_quote Originally Posted by azc
4/2 raka' Sunnah:
Do you know any thing about hadeeth mutawaatar i.e. a hadeeth that reached us from Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam by continuous practicing. For such a hadeeth there are hundreds of thousands of witnesses, so none can deny it. Making 4 sunna first and 2 last in zuhur has reached us all through the hadeeth muta waater for which no proof is required.
Do you want to make people confused about the daily fard and Sunnah in obligatory prayers. You are very clever. So u are using words very carefully so that you can hide your attacks!!! Remember that Allah your Creator is much more Clever. So a creature cannot play with Allah. My useful clear answers didn't satisfy u. And u will not be satisfied with any clear answer because u are not straight. You will make the things complicated and cause chaos and confusion in Deen. That is your aim which is very well proved now. I leave it to Allah:
و أفوض امري إلى الله إن الله بصير بالعباد
Sister, the madhabs do not generally disagree with each other on the major points, just here and there on some minor issues, there are differences of opinion, stuff that usually doesn't concern a Muslims practice of his or her deen in daily life.format_quote Originally Posted by nbegam
I personally have no problems with madhabs and those who follow one. I think they serve a purpose for those who do not "get it". Because, the madhabs, provide intellectual discourse regarding matters of deen, so someone who is unsure, can follow a train of thought which is logical and contextually sound.
That is all.
We have to remember, that when Islam started to spread to non Arabic speaking nations, the Arab Muslims were faced with issues they never saw coming... such as, well, history paints the rest in.
My not choosing a madhab is personal choice, as I have found that I do "get it", and if I am unsure of anything, I can ask my imam, or go to the books and read what the scholars have already clarified. Ofcourse, the scholars themselves follow madhabs too.
So the question really is - those of us who do not follow a madhab, when we do our research - do we realise that we are reading scholars who do follow a madhab? And if we take their opinion on matters, are we not also sponsoring the madhab they follow without realising it?
This is a very nuanced discussion.
My last post, I kinda curve balled bro Azc, subhanAllah, he's a good brother - but my line of enquiry is genuine. He knows now, that the question I asked him regarding the hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurairah RA, was designed to place him in a catch22 situation.
But in fairness, I also have to point out to you, that you also are in the same situation, just paddling a different boat. My question to you is - when you research matters pertaining to Islam and get scholarly opinions, do you not realise the opinions are from scholars who follow a madhab? And by knowing this, do you now understand that when you sponsor the opinion of a scholar, you are aslo lending his madhab some credence too, especially if the answer he gives is from his school of thought (madhab)??? See? we are both in that boat lol.
Scimi
Last edited by Scimitar; 01-26-2017 at 06:32 PM.
The point is that, madhahib were not there at the time of the Prophet (SAW). Everyone followed the Prophet SAW (Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet). And so madhahib are just not a basic part of Islam. There is no need to associate with any one madhhab or to have to follow every ruling in a madhhab and not be able to pick one ruling from one madhhab and another from a different madhhab (if you feel that that's the more correct ruling), because all rulings in a madhhab are based on some hadith of the Prophet (SAW), for example whether blood breaks a wudoo or not.
I don't even think it's right to ask 'which madhhab do belong to?' because there is just no difference among Muslims based on madhahib. It's not like asking whether you're sunni or shia. What difference does it make if you're Hanafi or Shafiee? You agree that you can pray behind each other and you won't consider an imam from a different madhhab to cause your prayer to be invalid? Or anything like that. So then what's the point of trying to find out what madhhab someone belongs to?
Already the Ummah has been disunited because of so many factors, race and nationality and sects. All we need is fighting with each other on the basis of madhhab to ruin what's left of it.
I never came across a case where there were sectarian wars emerging from madhabs... so you would be wrong.format_quote Originally Posted by Muhaba
I can make chicken curry four ways, each way is fine, and it's still chicken curry.
This is how inclusive the madhabs are, with each other - all four generally compliment each other. And the disagreements, were minor compared to the political circus the Muslims had to deal with in the case of "sectarian Islam" - i.e - Sunni Shia divide happened way before the madhabs were even an idea.
The two, cannot be compared.
Scimi
EDIT:
Badabing, Badaboomformat_quote Originally Posted by Muhaba
I also thought the premise of this thread was ridiculous!!!
Scimi
By the way, I don't follow any madhhab and i find nothing wrong with praying in both the Shafiee way or the Hanafee way and since all madhahib are based on some hadith of the Prophet SAW or a derivation of some verse so they're all correct, as long as the rulings don't go against Quran / Hadith. Actually, there are some rulings that contradict some verse or hadith and I would consider those rulings wrong (and even consider a responsibility on the ummah to correct those items otherwise the scholars might continue to get sins even centuries after their death.)
The scholars always said that if they said something wrong, then their students shouldn't follow it. And so we should also keep that in mind. These scholars were human beings and they could have made mistakes and their decision on some topic was not final / unquestionable because these scholars weren't the basis of Islam. If we don't follow any one of them, we don't become kafirs. On the other hand, what the Prophet (SAW) said, we have to follow it without question.
Madhab, for lack of a better explanatory term in English, is best described as "curriculum".
Imagine you are in school, and being taught algebra one way, and it doesn;t make sense to you, so you are taught another way, from another curriculum, which appeals to your logic, train of thought - and once you "get it", you can work out the algebra equation... the answer will still be the same, whether you followed curriculum A or curriculum B ( or even C and D).
Which way suits you best? You decide.
And if you choose not to decide - that's cool too.
It's not necessary to have a madhab, despite what one scholar from the middle ages claimed.
Scimi
actually, in the beginning, the students of the different scholars used to dispute with each other.format_quote Originally Posted by ScimitarI never came across a case where there were sectarian wars emerging from madhabs... so you would be wrong.
I can make chicken curry four ways, each way is fine, and it's still chicken curry.
This is how inclusive the madhabs are, with each other - all four generally compliment each other. And the disagreements, were minor compared to the political circus the Muslims had to deal with in the case of "sectarian Islam" - i.e - Sunni Shia divide happened way before the madhabs were even an idea.
The two, cannot be compared.
Scimi
EDIT:
Badabing, Badaboom
I also thought the premise of this thread was ridiculous!!!
Scimi
Disputes were not violent. Were they? It wasn't exactly karbala was it?format_quote Originally Posted by Muhaba
Even before the madhabs, during the time of the Sahabi RA, they would have heated debates with each other too, disputes etc - but - they didn't let these over take their senses...
...that happened when the Sunni/Shia divide happened, and it was wholly political and a-religious.
Scimi
Last edited by Scimitar; 01-26-2017 at 07:01 PM.
yes, the enemies take advantage of the divisionsformat_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
I prefer not to point fingers at dead men... but occasionally I fail there too. May Allah forgive me. Ameen.format_quote Originally Posted by Muhaba
Scimi
The 4 imams school of thought is like the Muslim Supreme Court
@Scimitar : Man. you are smart! Yes,It's my own opinion....... Neither Hz Isa a.s nor Hz Imam Mahdi ra will follow the books of fiqh and books of ahadith because these books were written after many years of prophetic era. Now think, how did Muslims of khairul quroon follow Islam..? Obviously they followed Quran and sunnah as they were taught by their elders this is why thousands of fatwas of elders without any dalil are found in old books of ahadith e.g. Musannaf anudurazzaq and musannaf ibn abi shaba etc written prior to Bukhari (which was completed in 233 hijri)... Nobody classified bukhari as the most authentic book after Quran but sh ibn salah in 650 hijri. We see so many differences in books of fiqh and books of ahadith. So both Hz isa a.s and Hz imam mahdi ra will have correct and thorough knowledge of kitab and sunnah. Moreover, it's no where mentioned that they will be taught by any teachers in any madarsa. Even It can't be imagined because superiors, especially in deen, don't take knowledge from inferiors. And which faqih or muhaddis can be greater than them..? I
@nbegam :It's nothing to do with hadith being mutwatir, mash'hur or ahad (thisterminology is also man made), rather, try to prove the word ''sunnah'' mentioned in any hadith, is hereby meant.
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