Struggling with idea of non muslims going to hell

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.

Brother my advice to you, start doing da'wa...but off course build some patience and knowledge about all kind of subjects if possible. Why do i say this?

I myself love to have discussions because i love to learn things. I have had alhamdulillah many discussions with people of all kind of religions from Muslims to atheists. I have found two kind of character traits coming back each time.

Honesty and dishonesty.

There are people who will have a discussion with you, when you give them logic, rationality and reason and they KNOW you are right..but they reject it out of pride and arrogance. These people ..sub'han'Allah..these people have become blind for the message and they are their own cause of misguidance. These type of people you could say will enter hell fire..if they off course die like that. I have come to know that these types of people CHOOSE themselves to go to hell fire and i feel no empathy towards them. I mean ..the message is clear as the heavens from the earth. However the dishonesty to not admit..what can you do to these type of people?

Then there is the other type. The honest type. These people are honest if you have a discussion with them. Within this group exists two sub-types if you ask me. The one who searches and in the end becomes Muslim. The other type is to preoccupied with dunya. But you have to have trust in Allah(swt) that He guides them to the right path. As many of these honest people when calamity hits them so hard that they finally realize this dunya is worthless and their head is turned to Islam. They also will accept without any pride or arrogance.

There is no Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists etc. All i have seen is honest people and dishonest people. The honest people for sure come to Islam and stick to Islam if they were Muslims already. The dishonest people will leave Islam or never become Muslims.

If a person dies as non-Muslim, my judgement is still absent as i don't know if that person maybe believed in 1 Creator despite not being Muslim. So the people who die as non-Muslim and also NOT believing in 1 Creator. These people are their own cause. Allah(swt) has showed them all His signs before giving them death.

"Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient," Qur'an 2:26

Read the bold part. The people who are not guided are the cause of it themselves.

If i would want to give you 1 million dollars but you refuse to take it..how can i forcefully give it to you? You do not want it, while the simple criteria is..coming to my house and asking for it...but you refuse to do that. So how can people feel sorry for a person that refuses to go with the criteria and get the 1 million dollars? Right?

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)



Yes, God-willing hope that they become Muslim and consider every human being as a potential Paradise-dweller. Please understand that a person will have to receive the proper Message of Islam and then reject it before they're considered disbelievers in the Message. In this life, we cannot judge anyone's intentions or hearts or divine their futures to know who is ultimately what in the Hereafter (even ourselves). Finally, Allah gave an answer in this Hadith Qudsi (prophetic tradition with direct words from Allah):

“O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.
O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you,
O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you.
O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you.
O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.
O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything.
O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it.
O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good, praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.”

Also, remember the Qur'an came as a glad tiding and warning both and all humanity is given the following ayat (verse) upon which to reflect:
“Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere”(2:155). And this is a Message for all humanity that whether we're disbeliever or believer we'all be tested with things which will require us to patiently persevere, and remember Allah says that Allah is with the patient (Qur'an 2:163), which means that this suffering may be a means through which Allah bestows on an unbeliever iman (faith) before his/her death. And with respect to suffering in life that you mentioned a disbeliever suffers, please know that we know from a hadith (prophetic tradition) that even Abu Jahl will suffer less than he would have otherwise because of his one good deed of freeing a slave at the birth of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). So, even a disbeliever's suffering may be a cause of him suffering less in eternity just as his/her good deed would be a cause for him/her suffering less in eternity. Simply put, however, these things are not within the purview of our knowledge because as human beings we're not allowed to know of anyone's future in the Hereafter, including our own. So, we simply hope for the best for ourselves and others. Remember a hadith (prophetic tradition) says, “A worshipper does not attain the truth of faith until he loves for the people what he loves for himself of good.” We wish everyone good, and whether they're in the end able to attain that good is not in our hands, and Allah will act as Judge and determine how everyone acted or didn't act according to his/her capacity and what he/she earned in this life in that vein.

And please understand no one is telling you to disregard anyone's suffering in this life or the Hereafter. And you can, if you wish, achieve much good and positive deeds in this regard. Serve human beings in this world (in the best way possible within your capacity) as that is one way in which you can alleviate human suffering. And know service to human beings is considered service to Allah. And also supplicate for every non-Muslim you meet that he/she become your brother/sister in Paradise.

(And peace be upon you)

See about that, thing is, i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much, is still considered to have receive the message because they could have the means to learn about it. I.e, someone with google, or say poor non muslims living with muslims in neighbourhood. I have an issue as for example, the christians and yazidis persecuted by ISIS, of course there are those who have heard of islam because they have co-existed with muslims and some still retain their faith. I have an issue that they still suffer as well in the next life, that is my problem.

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

See about that, thing is, i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much, is still considered to have receive the message because they could have the means to learn about it. I.e, someone with google, or say poor non muslims living with muslims in neighbourhood. I have an issue as for example, the christians and yazidis persecuted by ISIS, of course there are those who have heard of islam because they have co-existed with muslims and some still retain their faith. I have an issue that they still suffer as well in the next life, that is my problem.

I have heard on one lecture that no human being goes to hell except that he admits himself that he deserves to go to hell.

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)



We cannot ascertain to what degree this opinion has merit because Allah judges according to His Judgment. And His Judgment includes a person's hidden, subconscious, and conscious intentions, a person's mental/intellectual capacity, a person's knowledge, a person's mind, a person's heart, and a person's soul. So, we do not know to what degree that Christian or Yazidi persecuted by Daesh has been able to learn or understand Islam. What we do know is that Allah will judge people in a manner that befits the situation and no soul will be oppressed in the Judgment because the Divine Judgment will be fair and equitable and in keeping with both mercy and compassion; all we can say is that Allah knows best their fate, and we trust that Allah will determine their fate justly and no one will be wronged even an atom (Qur'an 4:40).

Again, I remind you that the great scholar Imam Ghazali (may Allah bless him) held that those who've been reached with a distorted picture of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), presumably even people like the Christians and Yazidis you mentioned persecuted by Daesh, will be of those who have an excuse and receive a test on Judgment Day to ascertain whether they would submit themselves to God. Such people, in his (may Allah bless him) view, were excused until they had an unvarnished opportunity to learn the undistorted truth about Islam.

The truth is we do not know their fates, just as we do not know our own. Allah is Just and Merciful, that much we do know and trust.

(And peace be upon you)

What opinion are you taking about that is uncertain?

@Huzaifah ibn Adam, can you clarify anything?

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

What opinion are you taking about that is uncertain?

You wrote, "i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much." In response, I clarified we cannot ascertain the (full) merit of this opinion because human beings judge according to what human beings are able to understand in academic terms and Allah judges according to His (Complete) Judgment. So, we ideally recognize that Allah's Judgment is not like human beings' and we also know that Allah's Judgment will be one that does no one an injustice even worth an atom's weight (Qur'an 4:40).

(And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

So am I just supposed to hope that they become muslim? I mean, what about those who do die non-muslim, do I just disregard their suffering? That is what I struggle with.

Don't focus on what you can't do. This is not in your hands in any way shape or form. What you CAN do is give dawah, make dua for them and make sure this message gets to them, however, what they do with the information you give is strictly up to them. Also, remember that on the day of judgement, you won't care about what happened to them, you will only care about yourself.

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)



You wrote, "i've heard that even a non muslim who has heard of islam but doesn't know much." In response, I clarified we cannot ascertain the (full) merit of this opinion because human beings judge according to what human beings are able to understand in academic terms and Allah judges according to His (Complete) Judgment. So, we ideally recognize that Allah's Judgment is not like human beings' and we also know that Allah's Judgment will be one that does no one an injustice even worth an atom's weight (Qur'an 4:40).

(And peace be upon you)

Well, here is what ahmad musa jibril said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ8l...ature=youtu.be

near the end, he says what I said.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

Don't focus on what you can't do. This is not in your hands in any way shape or form. What you CAN do is give dawah, make dua for them and make sure this message gets to them, however, what they do with the information you give is strictly up to them. Also, remember that on the day of judgement, you won't care about what happened to them, you will only care about yourself.

And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."

So, this is a follow-up question I have: Do you trust Allah to not do an atom's weight of injustice as Allah says to any human being in the hereafter?

The reason I ask this follow-up question because your questions are based in flawed understanding:
1) No one knows whether a non-Muslim died a disbeliever or not. Only Allah knows. All Allah has to say is, "Be" and that person known to be a non-Muslim in the world known to us could have died in his last breath as a Muslim (even if without knowledge of any other human beings or jinn).
2) Non-Muslims who die, depending on whether they received a proper message of Islam, could be of those excused and thereby of those who will receive a test on Judgment Day to determine whether they would have chosen submission to Allah.
3) Non-Muslims whom Allah divinely judges categorically as disbelievers in the next life are those who actively (and persistently) chose disbelief and they say in the hereafter, "Now, if we could but once return, we would be believers" (Qur'an 26:20) However, the hereafter disbelievers' words are a lie because their active intention is disbelief regardless of however they may plead their case then because we know they would remain disbelievers if they were once again returned to earth (should they be given the chance). And we can surmise this as truth because their words do not align with the subconscious intention because a hadith (prophetic tradition) of which I'm only quoting the relevant portion says, “Verily, deeds are only with intentions. Verily, every person will have only what they intended." Disbelief in spiritual terms is considered both an intention and a deed. And the penalty for choosing disbelief in eternal intention and deed as to Allah known as also As-Samad, the Eternal, is only fitting to be given as eternal punishment.
4) In this life, we have bosses who fire workers for incompetence, and they are not judged as harsh or cruel even if the worker badly needed the job to earn a living wage to eat or even have his family be financially afloat. Because the worker did not do his/her job. And here, in this world, we as human beings have a job. Our job is to reconnect ourselves with the primordial purpose and promise of accepting Allah as our Lord as we once did when were only souls (in the Heaven). The evidence for this is the following in the Qur'an (7:172): "And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes! We testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.'"

(And peace be upon you)

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

I was wondering, did you watch what he said?

Yes, I watched some of it; and I still have the same question of you as I did in post #34.

Additionally, I'd maintain that it is his specific understanding on the subject, not gospel. And as a non-scholar, I am neither in a position to confirm or deny as to the matter he's judged in the way of understanding he's judged.

And I still maintain what I'd earlier said to you: "We cannot ascertain to what degree this opinion has merit because Allah judges according to His Judgment. And His Judgment includes a person's hidden, subconscious, and conscious intentions, a person's mental/intellectual capacity, a person's knowledge, a person's mind, a person's heart, and a person's soul."

Speaking for myself, however, I still would not take this individual's specific understanding over that of Imam Ghazali's (may Allah bless him), a scholar whom I trust and whom I know had honed understanding of Islam in a manner and with breadth that this specific individual cannot be said to have done so.

(And peace be upon you)

format_quote Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)



So, this is a follow-up question I have: Do you trust Allah to not do an atom's weight of injustice as Allah says to any human being in the hereafter?

The reason I ask this follow-up question because your questions are based in flawed understanding:
1) No one knows whether a non-Muslim died a disbeliever or not. Only Allah knows. All Allah has to say is, "Be" and that person known to be a non-Muslim in the world known to us could have died in his last breath as a Muslim (even if without knowledge of any other human beings or jinn).
2) Non-Muslims who die, depending on whether they received a proper message of Islam, could be of those excused and thereby of those who will receive a test on Judgment Day to determine whether they would have chosen submission to Allah.
3) Non-Muslims whom Allah divinely judges categorically as disbelievers in the next life are those who actively (and persistently) chose disbelief and they say in the hereafter, "Now, if we could but once return, we would be believers" (Qur'an 26:20) However, the hereafter disbelievers' words are a lie because their active intention is disbelief regardless of however they may plead their case then because we know they would remain disbelievers if they were once again returned to earth (should they be given the chance). And we can surmise this as truth because their words do not align with the subconscious intention because a hadith (prophetic tradition) of which I'm only quoting the relevant portion says, “Verily, deeds are only with intentions. Verily, every person will have only what they intended." Disbelief in spiritual terms is considered both an intention and a deed. And the penalty for choosing disbelief in eternal intention and deed as to Allah known as also As-Samad, the Eternal, is only fitting to be given as eternal punishment.
4) In this life, we have bosses who fire workers for incompetence, and they are not judged as harsh or cruel even if the worker badly needed the job to earn a living wage to eat or even have his family be financially afloat. Because the worker did not do his/her job. And here, in this world, we as human beings have a job. Our job is to reconnect ourselves with the primordial purpose and promise of accepting Allah as our Lord as we once did when were only souls (in the Heaven). The evidence for this is the following in the Qur'an (7:172): "And (remember) when your Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their loins, their seed (or from Adam's loin his offspring) and made them testify as to themselves (saying): 'Am I not your Lord?' They said: 'Yes! We testify,' lest you should say on the Day of Resurrection: 'Verily, we have been unaware of this.'"

(And peace be upon you)

That last thing with workers is different. Listen, Hell isn't just punishment, it's torture. And for all of eternity.

format_quote Originally Posted by TDWT

And that's my issue. If they die non muslim, am I supposed to be like 'oh well, too bad, so sad."

Who said that is how you have to be? Not once have I felt that way about my family even though most of them will never consider Islam. I think about my mother and I feel very sad, but never "oh well, too bad so sad". I feel guilt that I don't work hard enough to show her Islam and also that I'm not a fabulous and thoughtful daughter with an awesome character that would make her want look into Islam.

So what are my options? Mope around and feel guilt or do something about it? You can only do what is directly in your control, nothing else. This is part of having faith and trust in Allah, so the problem here would be that you don't have faith in Allah's mercy...think about it.

format_quote Originally Posted by Umm♥Layth

Who said that is how you have to be? Not once have I felt that way about my family even though most of them will never consider Islam. I think about my mother and I feel very sad, but never "oh well, too bad so sad". I feel guilt that I don't work hard enough to show her Islam and also that I'm not a fabulous and thoughtful daughter with an awesome character that would make her want look into Islam.

So what are my options? Mope around and feel guilt or do something about it? You can only do what is directly in your control, nothing else. This is part of having faith and trust in Allah, so the problem here would be that you don't have faith in Allah's mercy...think about it.

Here's the thing, it's explicitly says 'all non muslims go to hell' it's been like that for centuries