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    Are all movements within Islam false?

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    such as tablighi jamaat, gulen movement, nur movement or said nursi, sufi orders, etc.? are all of these bid'ah? should we only stick to the Qur'an and the sunnah? why or why not?

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    such as tablighi jamaat, gulen movement, nur movement or said nursi, sufi orders, etc.? are all of these bid'ah? should we only stick to the Qur'an and the sunnah? why or why not?
    We should only follow the Qur'an & Sunnah & occupy ourselves with good people who we find closely following footsteps of Prophet(sal ALLAH hu alyhe wasallam)& Sahabas R !

    They followed methodology that's contained in Texts, that's why it's important to follow the instructions in Authentic Texts!

    Yes,many of them are bidah or into misguidance!

    This may help you understand a bit on the correct sect!
    https://amatulwudud.wordpress.com/20...-like-sahabas/
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    such as tablighi jamaat, gulen movement, nur movement or said nursi, sufi orders, etc.? are all of these bid'ah? should we only stick to the Qur'an and the sunnah? why or why not?
    Yes, we must stick to the Quraan and Sunnah only because only that way is Islam and any way beyond that is not Islam and shall be rejected by Allah ALL-MIGHTY.
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    Are all movements within Islam false?

    For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to


    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAb...TcknAmy9Y5Bv1A

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    And every group claims to be on the correct Deen so beware because these are end times,filled with trials& ignorance!

    We all need to make dua & ask for guidance sincerely otherwise we know that bidah is cursed & it leads to hellfire except for Rahma of ALLAH Ta'ala on an individual ,after death!

    It's strictly forbidden in Texts & it Ultimately Ieads to shirk, eventually to jahannum!

    !

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    I think we should know what those "all" groups are and what and how they teach Islam before we can surely say they are false or not.
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    Are all movements within Islam false?

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?



    Many Noble Quran verses & hadiths warns not to fall in sects and here are some hadith that will give some answer to your questions


    PROPHECIES OF NABI TO BE CAREFUL IN OUR DAYS OR LATER

    Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 88 :: Hadith 206
    Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman:

    The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about the good but I used to ask him about the evil lest I should be overtaken by them. So I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were living in ignorance and in an (extremely) worst atmosphere, then Allah brought to us this good (i.e., Islam); will there be any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I said, 'Will there be any good after that evil?" He replied, "Yes, but it will be tainted (not pure.)'' I asked, "What will be its taint?" He replied, "(There will be) some people who will guide others not according to my tradition? You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of some others." I asked, "Will there be any evil after that good?" He replied, "Yes, (there will be) some people calling at the gates of the (Hell) Fire, and whoever will respond to their call, will be thrown by them into the (Hell) Fire." I said, "O Allah s Apostle! Will you describe them to us?" He said, "They will be from our own people and will speak our language." I said, "What do you order me to do if such a state should take place in my life?" He said, "Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler)." I said, "If there is neither a group of Muslims nor an Imam (ruler)?" He said, "Then turn away from all those sects even if you were to bite (eat) the roots of a tree till death overtakes you while you are in that state."


    Muslim :: Book 5 : Hadith 2322
    Abu Salama and 'Ata' b. Yasar came to Abu Sa'id al-Khudri and asked him about Haruriya, saying: Did you hear the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) making a mention of them? He (Abu Sai'd al-Khudri) said: I don't know who the Haruriya are, but I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: There would arise in this nation (and he did not say" out of them" ) a people and you would hold insignificant your prayers as compared with their prayers. And they would recite the Qur'an which would not go beyond their throats and would swerve through the religion (as blank) just as a (swift) arrow passes through the prey. The archer looks at his arrow, at its iron head and glances at its end (which he held) in the tip of his fingers to see whether it had any stain of blood.


    Muslim :: Book 5 : Hadith 2318
    Abu Said Khudri reported that 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) sent some gold alloyed with dust to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) distributed that among four men, al-Aqra b. Habis Hanzali and Uyaina b. Badr al-Fazari and 'Alqama b. 'Ulatha al-'Amiri, then to one person of the tribe of Kilab and to Zaid al-Khair al-Ta'l, and then to one person of the tribe of Nabhan. Upon this the people of Quraish felt angry and said: He (the Holy Prophet) gave to the chiefs of Najd and ignored us. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I have done it with a view to con- cillating them. Then there came a person with thick beard, prominent cheeks, deep sunken eyes and protruding forehead and shaven head. He said: Muhammad, fear Allah. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: If I disobey Allah, who would then obey Him? Have I not been (sent as the) most trustworthy among the people of the-world? -but you do not repose trust in me. That person then went back. A person among the people then sought permission (from the Holy Prophet) for his murder. According to some, it was Khalid b. Walid who sought the permission. Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him), said: From this very person's posterity there would arise people who would recite the Qur'an, but it would not go beyond their throat; they would kill the followers of Islam and would spare the idol-worshippers. They would glance through the teachings of Islam so hurriedly just as the arrow passes through the pray. If I were to ever find them I would kill them like 'Ad.



    BUKHARI,Volume 4, Book 56, Number 808 :
    Narrated by 'Ali I relate the traditions of Allah's Apostle to you for I would rather fall from the sky than attribute something to him falsely. But when I tell you a thing which is between you and me, then no doubt, war is guile. I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "In the last days of this world there will appear some young foolish people who will use (in their claim) the best speech of all people (i.e. the Qur'an) and they will abandon Islam as an arrow going through the game. Their belief will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have practically no belief), so wherever you meet them, kill them, for he who kills them shall get a reward on the Day of Resurrection."


    Note : Some claim to protect Islam but they really never understood the Noble Quran or hadith ie Islam and betray muslims and destroy Islam and downfall of the ummah instead.

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    So far that i have understood Islam, every sects is highlighting certain things and in the shadow of this thing that they have highlighted they throw their own agenda in it. For example Gulen-movement, science is a VERY good thing, but in the shadow as everybody is preoccupied with science they throw the twist of nationalism in it.

    Qur'an and Sunnah already have EVERYTHING included what can and may be pursued. The boundaries have been laid down, and the balance in all has been laid down. No need to join Gulen or any sect if you like science. I like science very much, and Allah already says to us to find out to reason..to ponder to whatever in the direction of discovering. Science has no religion. Atheism has laid their claim on science, however this is false, as they twist things to meet their standards. Also with science one has to be careful. First find out who is financing study X.

    So Islam by default without any sects is healthy as healthy can be.
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Some are more wrong than others.. someone was canvassing these the other day.

    20170412_163702.jpg

    20170412_163719.jpg

    Although i have seen avatar the last airbender.. well written animation.
    ..
    ..
    There is no compulsion in religion.

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa16 View Post
    such as tablighi jamaat, gulen movement, nur movement or said nursi, sufi orders, etc.? are all of these bid'ah? should we only stick to the Qur'an and the sunnah? why or why not?
    Asalaamualaykum Mustafa,

    Before answering I would like to discuss the phrasing of the question.
    You have mentioned a few groups, then asked if they on bidah and then suggested that the solution to this is following the Quran & Sunnah.

    By doing this it seems that you already assumed that the group/s are not on the Quran and Sunnah.

    Anyway - here is the answer.

    To understand each group, you would have to talk to Scholars from each group. Some of the groups that you have mentioned have written hundreds of books explaining how they have derived their understanding of Fiqh, Aqeeda Etc. from Quran and Sunnah.

    Many ahadith give strict warnings on accusation without proof or justification. For any person to accuse another of being out of the fold of the Quran & Sunnah, they would have to justify that on the day of reckoning. On that day we will be alone in the court of Allah with sidekicks to back us up.

    We are living in times whereby much Takfir is made across groups without any real investigation. Magnifying that problem - the common layman jumps on the bandwagon and makes it worse by accusing people of bidah right up to making Takfir.

    Most layman people who follow rulings today don't even know the derivation of that ruling itself from Quran and Sunnah - but yet are too quick to pull another group up because their ruling is different.

    Let me give you an example:

    A person who follows the hanafi madhab in most cases has no idea on the derivation and proof of that ruling. Wouldn't it be height of insulting our Deen should that person say that the counter Shafi/Hanbali/Maaliki/Salafi ruling is incorrect?
    The only logical way to make a call that "my method is superior" to your method is to actually study both methods, with its proofs, with its derivations, with its counter-derivations etc. It is only then that a person can say that he is in a position to make a call and say that his method is superior.

    In the same way that I explained a fiqh stance - lay the answer to your question.

    The only time that ANYONE can make a call of superiority is if that person studies all the measures, proofs, counter-proof, principles Etc of the opposing group.
    Then further to that its within the Sunnah to find a compromise first before creating disunity.

    If you go on just YouTube alone - you will see what the neglect of this manifested into. It shocks the fluid in my spine to see how people disgrace other groups meanwhile they don't even know the evidences of their own.

    Just take one issue on Salaah - whether you Salafi/Maaliki/Hanafi/Hanbali or Shafi - Do you seriously think that anybody in this entire forum can explain ALL THE EVIDENCES OF THEIR METHOD, THEN EXPLAIN WHY THEY DONT ACCEPT THE OTHER, THEN EXPLAIN IN EACH OF THE OTHER WHY THEY DERIVE THAT RULING, THEN DISPROVE THAT RULING, THEN DO THAT FOR EVERY SINGLE GROUP ?????

    And that's only Salaah !!! Imagine the rest of the Deen !!!

    I hope I made a point. Should you want to know about the position of another group - then go to the Ulema or write to them and ask them.

    I have experienced cases in my life whereby people trying to prove that another group is on bidah etc - that they don't even know they have actually proved their own groups understanding of Quran and Sunnah wrong.

    Wasalaam.
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

    The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” This is mentioned in the hadeeth of ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Amr which was recorded and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi (2641). It was also classed as hasan by al-‘Iraaqi in Ahkaam al-Qur’aan (3/432), al-‘Iraaqi in Takhreej al-Ihya’ (3/284) and al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

    This is the clearest sign that the Muslim can use to determine what is the saved group, so he should follow the way of the majority of scholars, those whom all the people testify are trustworthy and religiously-committed, and he should follow the way of the earlier scholars among the Sahaabah, Taabi’een and the four Imams and other scholars, and he should beware of every sect that differs from the main body of Muslims (jamaa’ah) by following innovation (bid’ah).

    https://islamqa.info/en/90112

    jammah = Ahle Sunnah Wal Jammah aka Sunni (75% of 2+ billion Muslims)
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    This issue of groups being allowed in Islam or not and just to follow the Quran and Sunnah and you will be safe has been an issue within our Ummah for some time now.

    The difficulty with this answering this question is, what do you class as a group/movement?

    Does this also include Muslim charity organisations, (which may follow a particular Madthhab with regards to the rules of Zakat and Sadaqah)? Does this include Muslim local community groups/organisations? Does it include the movements that rose up against oppression in the Arab Spring?

    All of whom many of us would argue have actually done/tried to do good for this Ummah.

    I find it strange that those that say: 'follow Quran and Sunnah and don't be involved in groups', are effectively turning themselves into a movement...

    I have heard many of these movements arose due to a deficiency they saw in the Ummah. Sufi's came about to re enlighten the spiritual aspects of Islam (Tablighi's to some extent too), Salafi's to bring back the importance of not to blind follow without evidence and many political ones who are striving to bring back Islamic governance in the world.

    To me I feel that many movements (not all) have actually done some good for this Ummah when we actually needed it.
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaj View Post
    jammah = Ahle Sunnah Wal Jammah aka Sunni (75% of 2+ billion Muslims)
    Salam. I think this doesnt solve the problem either. Just like every contradicting group claims their path is the true Islam, every contradicting group within the ahle sunnah claims theirs is the true ahle sunnah. So who are the true ahle sunnah?
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    Are all movements within Islam false?

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Salam. I think this doesnt solve the problem either. Just like every contradicting group claims their path is the true Islam, every contradicting group within the ahle sunnah claims theirs is the true ahle sunnah. So who are the true ahle sunnah?


    the ahadith posted above that with the link answers your question.

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaj View Post


    the ahadith posted above that with the link answers your question.
    Thanks. If you mean this hadith “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” all of these people claim that they follow the Prophet Aleyhisselam and his companions but some still majorly differ on many things and say this or that is the true path of them. So, is it always the majority as main body who are right?
    Are all movements within Islam false?

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    Thanks. If you mean this hadith “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.” all of these people claim that they follow the Prophet Aleyhisselam and his companions but some still majorly differ on many things and say this or that is the true path of them. So, is it always the majority as main body who are right?
    jammah means the majority and statistically speaking, the sunni are the majority, comprising of 75% of all Muslims. The shia are 2nd in numbers at about $15 and all the other deviant sects twinkle down from there. Then there are those who like to call themselves Muslims (ahmadiyyah) but are not because of the aqeedah contradicting Islam. So sects wise, the jammah are teh sunni.

    With that said, only question now is as to who within sunni sect is right since there are many groups within sunni islam and many of them do differ. First of all, there are madhabs (schools of thought) such as the 4 imams and such are acceptable. Then there are other groups like the sufi who claim to be sunni but you have to look at their aqeedah and for many it is corrupt as they believe they can become one with Allah noudbillah, among other things. So to answer your question, regardless of which group claims to be sunni. Don't listen to them, look at their aqeedah and see if it aligns with the Quran and the Sunnah. If it doesn't then they are not all that sunni they claim to be.

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by anatolian View Post
    salam. I think this doesnt solve the problem either. Just like every contradicting group claims their path is the true islam, every contradicting group within the ahle sunnah claims theirs is the true ahle sunnah. So who are the true ahle sunnah?
    exactly the point

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by aaj View Post
    jammah means the majority and statistically speaking, the sunni are the majority, comprising of 75% of all Muslims. The shia are 2nd in numbers at about $15 and all the other deviant sects twinkle down from there. Then there are those who like to call themselves Muslims (ahmadiyyah) but are not because of the aqeedah contradicting Islam. So sects wise, the jammah are teh sunni.

    With that said, only question now is as to who within sunni sect is right since there are many groups within sunni islam and many of them do differ. First of all, there are madhabs (schools of thought) such as the 4 imams and such are acceptable. Then there are other groups like the sufi who claim to be sunni but you have to look at their aqeedah and for many it is corrupt as they believe they can become one with Allah noudbillah, among other things. So to answer your question, regardless of which group claims to be sunni. Don't listen to them, look at their aqeedah and see if it aligns with the Quran and the Sunnah. If it doesn't then they are not all that sunni they claim to be.
    . EDIT: Sorry, this post was immature.
    Last edited by Mustafa16; 04-19-2017 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    So always follow the majority? I remember a hadith about it which says the majority of the scholars of the ummah will not agree upon falsehood. But I dont remember the source
    Are all movements within Islam false?

    If you have broken a heart, what you offer is not Salah..

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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    No they aren't definitely false ... but some actions and new doing aren't from the sunnah of the prophet we should avoid it
    And those are just names of groups
    The best for us is to take what is good and let what is wrong
    and at the end we all Muslim we should correct our selves and seeking the truth
    And sticking in the book of Allah and the sunnah
    And as the brothers and sisters said :try to learn them ... and you will see which one of them more close to the book of Allah and the sunnah
    .and you will know what to take and what you let
    May Allah guide us
    Last edited by Umm Malik; 04-19-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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    Re: Are all movements within Islam false?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho Islam View Post
    This issue of groups being allowed in Islam or not and just to follow the Quran and Sunnah and you will be safe has been an issue within our Ummah for some time now.

    The difficulty with this answering this question is, what do you class as a group/movement?

    Does this also include Muslim charity organisations, (which may follow a particular Madthhab with regards to the rules of Zakat and Sadaqah)? Does this include Muslim local community groups/organisations? Does it include the movements that rose up against oppression in the Arab Spring?

    All of whom many of us would argue have actually done/tried to do good for this Ummah.

    I find it strange that those that say: 'follow Quran and Sunnah and don't be involved in groups', are effectively turning themselves into a movement...

    I have heard many of these movements arose due to a deficiency they saw in the Ummah. Sufi's came about to re enlighten the spiritual aspects of Islam (Tablighi's to some extent too), Salafi's to bring back the importance of not to blind follow without evidence and many political ones who are striving to bring back Islamic governance in the world.

    To me I feel that many movements (not all) have actually done some good for this Ummah when we actually needed it.
    "O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result." Qur'an 4:59

    Read the bold part. What unites us all is the Qur'an to FOR SURE. However i am even corrected with this by the Qur'an that tells US "And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah AND the Messenger". The shahada consists of two parts, that there is no god but Allah and His messenger is Muhammad(saws)". So logically speaking even on this part is rather a confirmation of what Allah says in that part of the Qur'an.

    In electric engineering as well as computer programming there exists something like AND in a serial setup of lamps or devices or programming language.

    IF X = 1

    AND

    IF Y =1

    THEN Z = 1

    ELSE Z = 0

    So the Qur'an confirms of following the sunnah. However the Qur'an we ALL AGREE on that that is the book of Allah. We may disagree what is the part of "His messenger". To follow His messenger, what do we follow then? Based on logic, rationality and reason this has come to AUTHENTIC ahadith. So if somebody disagrees with it, one has rather OR add extra sources that also are AUTHENTIC based on logic, rationality and reason and with certain science behind it just like how the current books currently exist OR reject the current books again with their argument based on authentic sources.

    So you saying "are effectively turning themselves into a movement..." it is NOT me turning myself into a movement, it is rather Allah making it clear to me and i speak for myself that turns me into a movement. This movement by the definition of Allah so far as i have learned and understood is a Muslim who follows Islam (Follow Allah and His messenger). In this path i have found EVERYTHING EVERY group that tries to separate themselves from this and says we are missing this.

    Every group that says science is missing in the path that we are following. Who says science is missing? I CLEARLY can read that Allah has highlighted this.

    "Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." Qur'an 4:82
    "And He has subjected for you the night and day and the sun and moon, and the stars are subjected by His command. Indeed in that are signs for a people who reason." Qur'an 16:12
    "If We had sent down this Qur'an upon a mountain, you would have seen it humbled and coming apart from fear of Allah. And these examples We present to the people that perhaps they will give thought." Qur; an 59:21

    These things clearly to me shows that i must use my eyes to see and to look. Investigate to further more humble myself before my lord and be amazed by what He has created as signs to further fortify me in my imaan.

    To people who say we need more spiritual side of Islam, what do i need more then my prayer in solitude alone with my Rab? What do i need more then doing my own prayer in matter of minutes and feelings as if i have rested couple of hours? What do i need more to cry during my prayer but not being sad about anything during my prayer? What more spirtuality do i need if i see something haram i look away because i am ashamed of my Rab seeing me looking at something He is not approving me to look at?

    As i have said earlier, EVERYTHING has laid perfectly.

    "...This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion..." Qur'an 5:3

    What more do i need to emphasize if my Rab has done it already for me?

    So no we do not need anything more or less. Everything is exactly there as it is. If somebody wants to add something to it, be my guest, but you will have to deal with Allah not me on the Day of Judgement.

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