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    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought? (OP)


    Qadariyya and Jabariyya. Qadariyya is the view that all human beings possess total free will, and are thus responsible for their afterlife and independent of Allah's qadr, and jabariyya is the opposite, saying Allah does everything

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

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    Al-An'am 6:25

    وَمِنْهُم مَّن يَسْتَمِعُ إِلَيْكَۖ وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَن يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِىٓ ءَاذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًاۚ وَإِن يَرَوْا۟ كُلَّ ءَايَةٍ لَّا يُؤْمِنُوا۟ بِهَاۚ حَتَّىٰٓ إِذَا جَآءُوكَ يُجَٰدِلُونَكَ يَقُولُ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ إِنْ هَٰذَآ إِلَّآ أَسَٰطِيرُ ٱلْأَوَّلِينَ

    Of them there are some who (pretend to) listen to thee; but We have thrown veils on their hearts, So they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they saw every one of the signs, not they will believe in them; in so much that when they come to thee, they dispute with thee; the Unbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the ancients."





    Hud 11:91

    قَالُوا۟ يَٰشُعَيْبُ مَا نَفْقَهُ كَثِيرًا مِّمَّا تَقُولُ وَإِنَّا لَنَرَىٰكَ فِينَا ضَعِيفًاۖ وَلَوْلَا رَهْطُكَ لَرَجَمْنَٰكَۖ وَمَآ أَنتَ عَلَيْنَا بِعَزِيزٍ

    They said: "O Shu'aib! much of what thou sayest we do not understand! In fact among us we see that thou hast no strength! Were it not for thy family, we should certainly have stoned thee! for thou hast among us no great position!"

    Hud 11:92

    قَالَ يَٰقَوْمِ أَرَهْطِىٓ أَعَزُّ عَلَيْكُم مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ وَٱتَّخَذْتُمُوهُ وَرَآءَكُمْ ظِهْرِيًّاۖ إِنَّ رَبِّى بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ مُحِيطٌ

    He said: "O my people! is then my family of more consideration with you than Allah? For ye cast Him away behind your backs (with contempt). But verily my Lord encompasseth on all sides all that ye do!


    Hud 11:93

    وَيَٰقَوْمِ ٱعْمَلُوا۟ عَلَىٰ مَكَانَتِكُمْ إِنِّى عَٰمِلٌۖ سَوْفَ تَعْلَمُونَ مَن يَأْتِيهِ عَذَابٌ يُخْزِيهِ وَمَنْ هُوَ كَٰذِبٌۖ وَٱرْتَقِبُوٓا۟ إِنِّى مَعَكُمْ رَقِيبٌ

    "And O my people! Do whatever ye can: I will do (my part): Soon will ye know who it is on whom descends the penalty of ignominy; and who is a liar! and watch ye! for I too am watching with you!"
    Last edited by Abz2000; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:05 PM.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?













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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    I'd like to respond to a few points that have been made in this thread. Before that, please can we avoid unnecessarily labelling people as trolls and other such names. If there is a concern, you can report the issue to the moderators but otherwise please refrain from accusations which may have no basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_Ghazali View Post
    This is why Adam and Eve covered themselves up in shame after they ate from the tree. No longer were they in the perceptual presence of the Divine Unity of Allah.

    If all is from Allah, then everything points to Allah. But for most of humanity, people have been conditioned to regard certain moments and events as inherently bad or inherently good. But humans have no way of knowing what really is good or bad. Only Allah knows.

    Henceforth, freewill becomes meaningless when one has decided to perceive the Divine Names of Allah behind everything. Indeed, His Names are perpetually manifested in creation... what's the point in free will when Allah becomes the only Reality?
    These statements seem to be suggesting belief in a kind of pantheism, which is against the teachings of Islam. Allah سبحانه وتعالى is our Creator and Sustainer and the point of having free-will is to worship Him and turn away from all evil.

    [Allaah is] the Rabb of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, Ar-Rahmaan (the one whose Mercy encompasses everything), so worship him alone and be patient and firm on his worship, do you know of any who is similar to Him? [Qur’an 19:65]

    Blessed be He in Whose Hand is the dominion; and He is Able to do all things. Who has created death and life that He may test you which of you is best in deed. And He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving;
    [67:1-2]


    Allah is One; ergo, Allah transcends dualistic concepts. For example, Allah transcends ideas such as good and evil.
    Allah سبحانه وتعالى has referred to good and evil Himself in the Qur'an. We also have concepts such as Paradise and Hellfire, Tawheed and Shirk.

    Have We not made for him two eyes,
    And a tongue and two lips?
    And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?
    [Qur'an, 90: 8-90]

    Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself... [Qur'an 4:49]

    Say: "I seek refuge with (Allah), the Lord of the daybreak,
    "From the evil of what He has created
    [113:1-2]

    Allah taught man to perceive all the manifestations of His Divine names and attributes.
    Regarding the ayah which you referenced (2:31), it mentions that Allah سبحانه وتعالى taught Adam 'all the names (of everything)'. Ibn Kathir quoted Ibn Abbas (one of the Companions known for his vast knowledge of the Qur'an) as explaining this to mean the names that people use, such as human, animal, sky, earth, land, sea, horse, donkey, and so forth, including the names of the other species. So Allah taught Adam the names of everything, their proper names, the names of their characteristics, and what they do.

    Human's, however, know all the divine names, and have the means to spiritually percieve Reality in all dimensional categories. We are the only creatures who can manifest all of Allah's names, and can intimately know Allah as the totality of His names.
    Humans do not know all the Names of Allah سبحانه وتعالى. There are Names of Allah that He has preserved in the knowledge of the unseen with Him. In a Hadith recorded by Ahmad (3704), the Messenger of Allaah صلى الله عليه وسلم said:

    “There is no-one who is afflicted by distress and grief, and says: ‘O Allaah, I am Your slave, son of Your slave, son of Your maidservant; my forelock is in Your hand, Your command over me is forever executed and Your decree over me is just. I ask You by every name belonging to You which You have named Yourself with, or revealed in Your Book, or You taught to any of Your creation, or You have preserved in the knowledge of the Unseen with You, that You make the Qur’aan the life of my heart and the light of my breast, and a departure for my sorrow and a release for my anxiety,’ but Allaah will take away his distress and grief, and replace it with joy.” He was asked: “O Messenger of Allaah, should we learn this?” He said: “Of course; everyone who hears it should learn it.”

    The phrase “or You have preserved in the knowledge of the Unseen with You” indicates that there are beautiful Names of Allah سبحانه وتعالى that He has kept with Him in the knowledge of the Unseen, and which none of His creation has come to know.

    Moreover, we are urged to acquire the good meanings of the Names and Attributes of Allah سبحانه وتعالى which befit us, not those peculiar to Allah such as The Creator, The God, The Holy, and so on. Such characteristics cannot be acquired by human beings, and it is impermissible for people to claim them.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:47 PM.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?




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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post

    These statements seem to be suggesting belief in a kind of pantheism.
    It is understandable that they may indeed "suggest" pantheism, but as you are aware, the deeper one contemplates the subject of creation vis a vis Allah, the more the line seems to blur between Reality and creation. Of course, Allah remains the One and Absolute, and the line never truly blurs. There is no arguing that Allah is the Originator of everything.

    These subject matters require one to be spiritually/religiously grounded in Truth, and have a rock-solid belief in Tawhid; otherwise, there are indeed dangers of someone being swayed by ideas like pantheism.

    Allah سبحانه وتعالى has referred to good and evil Himself in the Qur'an. We also have concepts such as Paradise and Hellfire, Tawheed and Shirk.
    I'm in agreement. My point was that since everything ultimately comes from Allah; things cannot be regarded as good or bad from the vantage point of Absolute Oneness, for Allah is the Creator of everything.

    For example, Tom hits Sam. In terms of the moral conduct that humans were taught to follow (at the basic human and societal level), what Tom did was wrong. But this event cannot be concieved as inherently wrong, or wrong in an absolute sense, because Allah is the most Good, and He created creation (along with everything that occurs within creation) perfectly.

    Yes, Tom would not have hit Sam if Allah had never willed the event to have taken place. This does not mean that Allah did evil, but as a corollary of Allah's infinite knowledge and wisdom, the event had to transpire in the manner that it did.

    Regarding the ayah which you referenced (2:31), it mentions that Allah سبحانه وتعالى taught Adam 'all the names (of everything)'. Ibn Kathir quoted Ibn Abbas (one of the Companions known for his vast knowledge of the Qur'an) as explaining this to mean the names that people use, such as human, animal, sky, earth, land, sea, horse, donkey, and so forth, including the names of the other species. So Allah taught Adam the names of everything, their proper names, the names of their characteristics, and what they do.
    Honestly, Mohammad, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus regarding this subject (at least among the scholars). Nonetheless, I was using a metaphysical and spiritual approach, but I think it's best to leave this for another thread...

    Humans do not know all the Names of Allah سبحانه وتعالى. There are Names of Allah that He has preserved in the knowledge of the unseen with Him.
    Sure, but one can simply argue here that:

    1. The names that Allah taught man were those that were only meant to be perceived within the dimension of the seen universe.

    OR (and more likely plausible)

    2. If Allah desires, He can certainly reveal certain information from the Unseen to whomever He wills. Henceforth, Allah taught Adam the capacity to perceive all the names, regardless if Allah has hidden a portion of them in the Unseen. Ergo, when they are revealed to a chosen individual, they are readily recognisable.

    Moreover, we are urged to acquire the good meanings of the Names and Attributes of Allah سبحانه وتعالى which befit us, not those peculiar to Allah such as The Creator, The God, The Holy, and so on. Such characteristics cannot be acquired by human beings, and it is impermissible for people to claim them.
    Certainly, as these are Divine and Eternal Names. Since man is finite, he cannot manifest these names in the same eternal capacity of Allah. Ergo, man can be good; generous; and kind... but he cannot be the most Good; nor the most Generous; nor the most Kind.
    Last edited by Al_Ghazali; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:58 PM.

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    I'll only correct one glaring piece of disinformation amongst the many i saw when reading, and allow anyone else who wills to respond to others if they will:


    Even if material items are not inherently wrong, actions of people fall into the catergories of lawful or unlawful so let us (humans and jinn) stop attempting to confuse and lead people astray with foolish, long-winded, and meandering posts.


    Note to mods:

    I believe that people who regularly post disinformation should be temporarily limited to a certain number of words in posts so that they can be responded to properly without responders being unreasonably overwhelmed with a flood of gasseous text, if they need to post more words on a single subject, they can post in a second comment - though abusing that priviledge by posting on multiple subjects will result in disciplinary action.
    Last edited by Abz2000; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:35 AM.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?













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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    Even if material items are not inherently wrong, actions of people fall into the catergories of lawful or unlawful
    I never argued otherwise. I clearly said that I was not referring to the human/societal level. It would be more beneficial for you to learn to read properly, rather than constantly crying to the mods.

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    ^ please learn to read yourself too, and also learn to avoid maliciously prodding and provoking people into unnecessary arguments.
    I am aware that some unjust ignorant people feel uncomfortable unless they are able to feed off of unnecessary bickering and fighting - just as flies feed off of and thrive on excrement. Repent.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?













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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_Ghazali View Post
    It is understandable that they may indeed "suggest" pantheism, but as you are aware, the deeper one contemplates the subject of creation vis a vis Allah, the more the line seemsto blur between Reality and creation. Of course, Allah remains the One and Absolute, and the line never truly blurs. There is no arguing that Allah is the Originator of everything.
    The ones who were the most grounded in Tawheed, the closest to Allah and the best of humanity, were the Prophets. Yet, neither through their words nor their actions did they suggest that they perceived an apparent 'blur' between the Creator and His creation, despite the depth of their contemplation. They always turned to Allah with sincere worship and supplication, calling upon Him as their Rabb, the One who nurtures and sustains all of His servants. They all knew that there had to be a difference between the Creator and His creation, between obedience and sin, and between one who asks and One who responds.

    In the clear teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah, we do not find any suggestion that if one contemplates more deeply, the line between the Creator and the creation should blur. Rather, we find the opposite. The more the slave realises the difference between the Creator and the creation, the more he increases in love and servitude towards Allah, so he turns further away from worshipping, loving and obeying anything except Allah. The misguided mushrikin, on the other hand, view Allah and His creation as equal. Allah tells us what Prophet Ibrahim said:

    “Do you then see whom you have been worshipping – you and your fathers before you? For they are enemies to me; not so the Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds.” [Al Shu’ara: 75-77]


    These subject matters require one to be spiritually/religiously grounded in Truth, and have a rock-solid belief in Tawhid; otherwise, there are indeed dangers of someone being swayed by ideas like pantheism.
    I am not sure what subject matters you are referring to, because understanding and reflecting upon the Qur'an and Sunnah should strengthen our belief in Tawheed, not shake it. The Qur'an, the Hadith and statements of the Companions present the truth in a clear and understandable manner, therefore there is no need for people to resort to esoteric or confusing language such that one might mistake it as clear disbelief.

    I'm in agreement. My point was that since everything ultimately comes from Allah; things cannot be regarded as good or bad from the vantage point of Absolute Oneness, for Allah is the Creator of everything.

    For example, Tom hits Sam. In terms of the moral conduct that humans were taught to follow (at the basic human and societal level), what Tom did was wrong. But this event cannot be concieved as inherently wrong, or wrong in an absolute sense, because Allah is the most Good, and He created creation (along with everything that occurs within creation) perfectly.

    Yes, Tom would not have hit Sam if Allah had never willed the event to have taken place. This does not mean that Allah did evil, but as a corollary of Allah's infinite knowledge and wisdom, the event had to transpire in the manner that it did.
    You are right in that we do not attribute evil to Allah, because He has decreed everything based upon His Knowledge and Wisdom. At the same time, we do not claim that there is no such thing as evil or sin. Allah Himself has told us that He created evil:

    Say: "I seek refuge with (Allah), the Lord of the daybreak,
    "From the evil of what He has created
    [113:1-2]


    What may be helpful is to look at this in the context of the Will and Decree of Allaah which is divided into two categories: His universal will and His legislative will. Whatever falls under His universal will must always occur, but it is not necessary that what occurs is actually liked by Allah. By His universal will he may decree something not for its own sake, but to serve another purpose, such as the creation of Iblees, for example, and all evil things, because of which many things happen which Allaah loves, such as repentance, striving and seeking forgiveness. As for legislative will, it is not necessary that this Will should occur. This Will does not happen except in what He loves and desires.

    In the case of the disbelief of the kaafir and the sin of the disobedient, the fact that these things happen indicates that Allah willed that they should happen, because nothing happens except by His will. But the fact that Allaah does not love them and He is not pleased with them indicates that they happen by His universal will, not by His legislative will.

    Honestly, Mohammad, there doesn't seem to be any real consensus regarding this subject (at least among the scholars). Nonetheless, I was using a metaphysical and spiritual approach, but I think it's best to leave this for another thread...
    The key issue is that we must rely upon interpretations that are based upon a sound methodology i.e. using the Qur'an itself, using the Sunnah, using the understanding of the Companions and so on. We cannot follow an interpretation simply because it sounds spiritual yet has no basis, then use that to support other points.

    Sure, but one can simply argue here that:

    1. The names that Allah taught man were those that were only meant to be perceived within the dimension of the seen universe.

    OR (and more likely plausible)

    2. If Allah desires, He can certainly reveal certain information from the Unseen to whom He wills. Henceforth, Allah taught Adam the capacity to perceive all the names, regardless if Allah has hidden a portion of them in the Unseen. Ergo, when they are revealed to a chosen individual, they are readily recognisable.
    This kind of reasoning is very dangerous as it can open the door to a great deal of misguidance. We have to be clear that the revelation of Allah سبحانه وتعالى stopped and its door closed forever after the death of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, the last Prophet. There is no revelation after him.

    Anas reported that after the death of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) Abu Bakr said to 'Umar:

    Let us visit Umm Aiman as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to visit her. As we came to her, she wept. They (Abu Bakr and Umar) said to her: What makes you weep? What is in store (in the next world) for Allah's-Messenger (ﷺ) is better than (this worldly life). She said: I weep not because I am ignorant of the fact that what is in store for Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (in the next world) is better than (this world), but I weep because the revelation which came from the Heaven has ceased to come. This moved both of them to tears and they began to weep along with her. [Sahih Muslim 2454]


    The religion of Islam was completed during his lifetime as Allah told us in the Qur'an [5:3]. In an authentic hadith, the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “There is nothing left that could bring one closer to Paradise and move one further away from Hell but it has been explained to you.” (At-Tabaraani in al-Kabeer (1647)).

    Also, it is not permissible for anyone to claim to have knowledge of the unseen. Knowledge of the unseen is something that is unique to Allah سبحانه وتعالى so none of His creation, Jinn or others, knows that except what Allah may reveal to whomever He wills among His angels or Messengers:

    (He Alone) the All-Knower of the Ghaib (unseen), and He reveals to none His Ghaib (unseen).

    Except to a Messenger (from mankind) whom He has chosen (He informs him of unseen as much as He likes), and then He makes a band of watching guards (angels) to march before him and behind him” [Qur'an 72:26-27].


    That which is disclosed to the Messenger of matters of the unseen is only through revelation from Allah, may He be exalted. Hence Allah سبحانه وتعالى says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Say (O Muhammad blessings and peace of Allah be upon him): ‘I don’t tell you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the unseen; nor I tell you that I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me by inspiration.’” [al-An‘aam 6:50].

    This verse also shows that even the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did not have knowledge of the unseen.

    Al-Qurtubi (may Allah have mercy on him) said:
    The scholars (may Allah have mercy on them) said: as Allah, may He be glorified, is praised for having knowledge of the unseen, which He has kept to Himself, to the exclusion of His creation, this indicates that no one has knowledge of the unseen except Him. Then He made an exception for those with whom He is pleased of the Messengers, and disclosed to them whatever He willed of the unseen, by means of revelation to them, which He made a miracle for them and a true sign of their Prophethood.

    End quote from Tafseer al-Qurtubi (1 9/28)


    If Allah سبحانه وتعالى has commanded His Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم to proclaim to all that no one in the heavens or on earth has knowledge of the unseen except Allah, then whoever claims to have knowledge of the unseen has denied what Allah has told us. It is also inconceivable that such a person could have knowledge of the unseen when the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did not have knowledge of the unseen. Is he better than the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم? Obviously not, therefore why was the unseen concealed from the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم but this person has knowledge of it? Let us bear in mind that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم was the best of mankind, the Seal of the Prophets and the noblest and best of the Messengers, the one whom Allah took up to the seven heavens and was shown some of Allah’s greatest Signs, where he ascended to Sidrat Al-Muntaha, beyond which none can pass, the farthest anyone ascending from the earth to the heaven could reach, indicating his great status with Allah. Allah caused miracles to happen at his hand that superseded those of all the Prophets who came before him; Allah revealed the best of His Books to him and He forgave him his past and future sins. The Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم will be the leader of the sons of Adam on the Day of Resurrection, the first one for whom the grave will be opened, the first one to intercede and the first one whose intercession will be accepted; in his hand will be a banner of praise on the Day of Resurrection; he will be the first one to cross the Sirat, the first one to knock at the gate of Paradise and the first one to enter it. Thus, it goes against all reason that any person could even think of making such claims.

    What you mentioned regarding Prophet Adam عليه السلام is again something that needs to be substantiated, therefore it is not an evidence that any person can be taught 'all the divine names'.



    May Allah سبحانه وتعالى guide us, Aameen.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?




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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Re: Tom hits sam claim:

    For all practical purposes, actions of people are to be judged exactly as such unless there is no doubt whatsoever that a specific action was carried out by Allah - such as the actions of al khidr and the action of Maryam presenting a baby to her people with clear proof - once Allah Himself provides clear and convincing proof, any claims to doubt put the people who make the claim of doubt -to trial.

    Az-Zukhruf 43:20

    وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْ شَآءَ ٱلرَّحْمَٰنُ مَا عَبَدْنَٰهُمۗ مَّا لَهُم بِذَٰلِكَ مِنْ عِلْمٍۖ إِنْ هُمْ إِلَّا يَخْرُصُونَ



    And they (infidels, unjust, fools) say, "If it had been the will of (Allah) Most Gracious, we should not have worshipped such (deities)!"
    Of that they have no knowledge! they do nothing but falsely conjecture.

    get Quran App:https://goo.gl/w6rESk

    https://qurano.com/en/43-az-zukhruf/verse-20/

    Al-Muddaththir 74:31

    وَمَا جَعَلْنَآ أَصْحَٰبَ ٱلنَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَٰٓئِكَةًۙ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا۟ لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُوا۟ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَيَزْدَادَ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُوٓا۟ إِيمَٰنًاۙ وَلَا يَرْتَابَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُوا۟ ٱلْكِتَٰبَ وَٱلْمُؤْمِنُونَۙ وَلِيَقُولَ ٱلَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَٱلْكَٰفِرُونَ مَاذَآ أَرَادَ ٱللَّهُ بِهَٰذَا مَثَلًاۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُضِلُّ ٱللَّهُ مَن يَشَآءُ وَيَهْدِى مَن يَشَآءُۚ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَۚ وَمَا هِىَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَىٰ لِلْبَشَرِ

    And We have not made the keepers of the Fire except angels. And We have not made their number except as a trial for those who disbelieve - that those who were given the Scripture will be convinced and those who have believed will increase in faith and those who were given the Scripture and the believers will not doubt and that those in whose hearts is hypocrisy and the disbelievers will say, "What does Allah intend by this as an example?" Thus does Allah leave astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows the soldiers of your Lord except Him. And mention of the Fire is not but a reminder to humanity.

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    Al-'Ankabut 29:10

    وَمِنَ ٱلنَّاسِ مَن يَقُولُ ءَامَنَّا بِٱللَّهِ فَإِذَآ أُوذِىَ فِى ٱللَّهِ جَعَلَ فِتْنَةَ ٱلنَّاسِ كَعَذَابِ ٱللَّهِ وَلَئِن جَآءَ نَصْرٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ لَيَقُولُنَّ إِنَّا كُنَّا مَعَكُمْۚ أَوَلَيْسَ ٱللَّهُ بِأَعْلَمَ بِمَا فِى صُدُورِ ٱلْعَٰلَمِينَ

    And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah," but when one [of them] is harmed for [the cause of] Allah, they consider the trial of the people as [if it were] the punishment of Allah . But if victory comes from your Lord, they say, "Indeed, We were with you." Is not Allah most knowing of what is within the breasts of all creatures?

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    Al-Jasiyah 45:15

    مَنْ عَمِلَ صَٰلِحًا فَلِنَفْسِهِۦۖ وَمَنْ أَسَآءَ فَعَلَيْهَاۖ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكُمْ تُرْجَعُونَ

    Whoever does a good deed - it is for himself; and whoever does evil - it is against the self. Then to your Lord you will be returned.

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    Yunus 10:98

    فَلَوْلَا كَانَتْ قَرْيَةٌ ءَامَنَتْ فَنَفَعَهَآ إِيمَٰنُهَآ إِلَّا قَوْمَ يُونُسَ لَمَّآ ءَامَنُوا۟ كَشَفْنَا عَنْهُمْ عَذَابَ ٱلْخِزْىِ فِى ٱلْحَيَوٰةِ ٱلدُّنْيَا وَمَتَّعْنَٰهُمْ إِلَىٰ حِينٍ

    Then has there not been a [single] city that believed so its faith benefited it except the people of Jonah? When they believed, We removed from them the punishment of disgrace in worldly life and gave them enjoyment for a time.

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    Last edited by Abz2000; 1 Week Ago at 01:34 PM.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?













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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    I
    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad View Post
    The ones who were the most grounded in Tawheed, the closest to Allah and the best of humanity, were the Prophets. Yet, neither through their words nor their actions did they suggest that they perceived an apparent 'blur' between the Creator and His creation, despite the depth of their contemplation.
    The mission of the Prophets was to inform the rest of mankind that Allah is their Lord, and that they ought to submit to Him, lest they face the consequences of their rejection of submitting to the Reality after their body perishes. The people who submitted to Allah were given knowledge on how to draw close to Him, for if Allah is the First and the Last, one cannot help but be pulled into his Light.

    The Prophets were not sent to teach man how to walk on water, but this doesn't make spiritual elevation forbidden by the Law. The blueprints are there, and Allah is always aware of the intention that one has behind their external realization. Yes, overdoing the mystical approach is a bad idea, but that's precisely why Islam is the middle path.

    They always turned to Allah with sincere worship and supplication, calling upon Him as their Rabb, the One who nurtures and sustains all of His servants. They all knew that there had to be a difference between the Creator and His creation, between obedience and sin, and between one who asks and One who responds.
    Indeed, but they were Prophets, not the common man. The Prophets prayed with certainty far beyond the scope of the typical individual. They knew the difference between Allah and relative existence, yes, but not in the same capacity as everyone else. An "apparent blur" is entirely meaningless in their context. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was seeing angels. That was the degree of his perception of Oneness. Only the amatuers would percieve a silly blur. But Allah is the Master and the Truth, and anyone blind to this Reality will see blurs in every component of their life in the dunya.

    In the clear teachings of the Qur'an and Sunnah, we do not find any suggestion that if one contemplates more deeply, the line between the Creator and the creation should blur.
    First, I never argued that it "should."

    Second, the Qur'an and Sunnah are oceans of guidance. The depths and dimensions that one chooses (and is allowed to) immerse himself in are a whole different matter. Allah elevates whom He wills, and not everyone is on the same level, and not everyone has the same spiritual capacity to contain certain information.

    Rather, we find the opposite. The more the slave realises the difference between the Creator and the creation, the more he increases in love and servitude towards Allah, so he turns further away from worshipping, loving and obeying anything except Allah. The misguided mushrikin, on the other hand, view Allah and His creation as equal.
    Indeed. Likewise, the remembrance that Allah is the sole Reality; and that Allah is the all-encompassing; yes, this remembrance allows one to percieve his external world from a standpoint where he is always aware that Allah is the sole Light behind the veils. Such a disposition increases one's love and compassion for Allah and all things, for one can't help but see Oneess in multiplicity and love the Light of Allah behind everything in existence. Indeed, Allah is the all Pervading.

    I am not sure what subject matters you are referring to, because understanding and reflecting upon the Qur'an and Sunnah should strengthen our belief in Tawheed, not shake it.
    "Shake it." Your words, not mine.

    The Qur'an and Sunnah maintain and strengthen the faith, and are thus critical; but they don't guarentee a Muslim attaining higher degrees of yaqeen. The latter is more of a luxury, and it's entirely an individual choice... indeed, Allah knows well the moral condition of His servants.

    The Qur'an, the Hadith and statements of the Companions present the truth in a clear and understandable manner, therefore there is no need for people to resort to esoteric or confusing language such that one might mistake it as clear disbelief.
    You may refer to it as "estoeric or confusing language," when it really could be sincere divulgings of a hyper-concious state of mind.

    You are right in that we do not attribute evil to Allah, because He has decreed everything based upon His Knowledge and Wisdom. At the same time, we do not claim that there is no such thing as evil or sin.
    We don't, yes, because when it comes to our life on earth- or more pertinently- the lower dimensions of relative existence, sin and evil are inherent requisites.

    What may be helpful is to look at this in the context of the Will and Decree of Allaah which is divided into two categories: His universal will and His legislative will. Whatever falls under His universal will must always occur, but it is not necessary that what occurs is actually liked by Allah.

    By His universal will he may decree something not for its own sake, but to serve another purpose, such as the creation of Iblees, for example, and all evil things, because of which many things happen which Allaah loves, such as repentance, striving and seeking forgiveness. As for legislative will, it is not necessary that this Will should occur. This Will does not happen except in what He loves and desires.
    What Allah likes and dislikes is always in the context of relative existence, as these concepts themselves stem from an inherently dualistic approach. But Allah is the Absolute.

    Yes, Allah is the Compassionate, the Merciful. But He is also the Abaser, the Destroyer. These are the beautiful names of Allah that we witness in every instant of existance. Ultimately, Allah is incomprehensible. Humans can never know that whatever befalls them is inherently good or bad. What is known however is that Allah makes the sun set and the rain fall, and the further one knows this, the more he is in tune with the Truth. He will be in a conscious state of perceptually recognizing the shahadah, that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. Yes, he will be in a constant state of being witness to this Truth.

    This doesn't mean there is no such thing as sin at the level of the dunya. Commiting a sin simply hinder's one's submission to Allah. It's nothing personal. Allah isn't affect by our sins. Allah is the Reality, so if we are engaging in behavior that impedes our submission to the Reality, naturally, problems will manifest. Allah doesn't wrong people, but people wrong themselves. It's their own state of being that ultimately ruins them. A state of existance that is occupied with Oneness can never yield to carnal desires and dunya passions.


    The key issue is that we must rely upon interpretations that are based upon a sound methodology i.e. using the Qur'an itself, using the Sunnah, using the understanding of the Companions and so on. We cannot follow an interpretation simply because it sounds spiritual yet has no basis, then use that to support other points.
    Well that sounds nice on paper but the reality is something different. Otherwise, everyone would be a Sunni Hanafi, and that's obviously not the case.

    The basis is already a given. It's only a matter of what perspective you choose to understand it from. How you understood that line of reasoning from Ibn Abbas could be different from how other people understand it.

    This kind of reasoning is very dangerous as it can open the door to a great deal of misguidance. We have to be clear that the revelation of Allah سبحانه وتعالى stopped and its door closed forever after the death of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, the last Prophet. There is no revelation after him.
    Sure, but I never mentioned a new revelation. Islam is the last and perfect religion, so there's no point in another revelation.

    Also, it is not permissible for anyone to claim to have knowledge of the unseen. Knowledge of the unseen is something that is unique to Allah سبحانه وتعالى so none of His creation, Jinn or others, knows that except what Allah may reveal to whomever He wills among His angels or Messengers:
    Indeed. Again, all I did was provide two hypotheticals to the table in response to your argument. No claims were made.

    What you mentioned regarding Prophet Adam عليه السلام is again something that needs to be substantiated, therefore it is not an evidence that any person can be taught 'all the divine names'.
    Again, it's not a case of substantiation, but that of interpretation. You are using a literal and materialistic approach to what Ibn Abbas said; I'm taking a metaphysical one. Perhaps the real answer lies somewhere in the middle.

    I will say however that the names of Allah are eternal, so there's really no way that any finite being can possibly now them in totality.

    Yes, may Allah guide us all. Aameen.
    Last edited by Al_Ghazali; 1 Week Ago at 03:11 PM.

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abz2000 View Post
    ^ please learn to read yourself too, and also learn to avoid maliciously prodding and provoking people into unnecessary arguments.
    Seems to be working.

    I am aware that some unjust ignorant people feel uncomfortable unless they are able to feed off of unnecessary bickering and fighting - just as flies feed off of and thrive on excrement. Repent.
    Lol, repent yourself, kiddo.

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Qadariyah and jabariya are two groups of the early days of Islam and now extinct so the OP's question is really irrelevant

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    This entire Thread: WHAT A CARRY-ON!!!!!
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Allahu Akbar!

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Qadariyah and jabariya are two groups of the early days of Islam and now extinct so the OP's question is really irrelevant
    I am not so sure about that. the Qarariyah and Jabariya may be extinct as a community...I do not know...but I highly doubt that their ideology is extinct too.

    We would think that with the knowledge we have today and the overwhelming evidence for a round Earth...the flat earthers got extinct...but there is still a big group of people out there who still believe that the Earth is flat...

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    I am not so sure about that. the Qarariyah and Jabariya may be extinct as a community...I do not know...but I highly doubt that their ideology is extinct too.

    We would think that with the knowledge we have today and the overwhelming evidence for a round Earth...the flat earthers got extinct...but there is still a big group of people out there who still believe that the Earth is flat...
    Ideology of almost anything could exist amongst a few but a few shouldn't worry us
    Last edited by Ahmed.; 4 Days Ago at 02:03 PM.

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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahmed. View Post
    Ideology of almost anything could exist amongst a few but a few shouldn't worry us
    yes you said well.
    How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?


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    Re: How to avoid leaning towards these two misguided creeds in thought?

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_Ghazali View Post
    The mission of the Prophets was to inform the rest of mankind that Allah is their Lord, and that they ought to submit to Him, lest they face the consequences of their rejection of submitting to the Reality after their body perishes. The people who submitted to Allah were given knowledge on how to draw close to Him, for if Allah is the First and the Last, one cannot help but be pulled into his Light.

    The Prophets were not sent to teach man how to walk on water, but this doesn't make spiritual elevation forbidden by the Law. The blueprints are there, and Allah is always aware of the intention that one has behind their external realization. Yes, overdoing the mystical approach is a bad idea, but that's precisely why Islam is the middle path.
    One of the tasks and missions of the Messengers was reforming and purifying people's souls. Allah sent His Messengers with His guidance to bring forth the people from darkness into light. They taught them about their Lord, about His angels, His Books and His Messengers, and taught them about what will benefit them and what will harm them, and showed them the path which will lead to His love, and taught them how to worship Him. In the life of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم, according to the Qur'an (33:36), lies the most beautiful and the most perfect example to follow. Since the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم was sent to purify the souls of the people, there can be no question that his method of purification of the soul is the method that is approved by Allah and that is pleasing to Allah. The path espoused by the Qur'an and Sunnah is very clear and open for every human to follow, and involves purifying one's beliefs from shirk and obeying and submitting to Allah by performing the obligatory and voluntary deeds. If anyone follows a path other than this, he is simply deceiving himself. If he claims that he is getting closer to Allah by another path, his claim is no different from that of the polytheists who claimed that they were getting closer to Allah by worshipping their idols.

    Indeed, but they were Prophets, not the common man. The Prophets prayed with certainty far beyond the scope of the typical individual.
    Yet, the Qur’an is full of encouragement to follow in their footsteps in all matters, to take them as an example, to seek to acquire their characteristics and to imitate their actions. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
    They are those whom Allah had guided. So follow their guidance... [al-An’aam 6:90]

    Their humanity is highlighted in the Qur'an, wherein we are told they had physical bodies which needed food and drink as all other humans do.
    And We sent not before you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) but men to whom We revealed. So ask the people of the Reminder [Scriptures - the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel)] if you do not know. And We did not create them (the Messengers, with) bodies that ate not food, nor were they immortals. [21:7-8]

    ‘Aa’ishah رضي الله عنها was asked: What did the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وسلم do in his house? She said: He was a human being like any other; he would clean his garment, milk his sheep and serve himself. [Narrated by Ahmad, 26194; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in as-Saheehah, 671]


    This is a part of the perfect blessing of Allah towards His creation: He sent to them Messengers from among themselves so that they could receive the Message from them and learn from them.

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was seeing angels. That was the degree of his perception of Oneness.
    Shaykh ‘Umar al-Ashqar said, in the context of affirming the humanity of the Messengers and refuting those who said that they were angels:

    It is difficult to see the angels. When the kuffar (non-Muslims) demanded to see the angels, and expected that the Messengers who were sent to them should be angels, they did not understand the nature of the angels and they did not know the difficulty and hardship that they might encounter as a result of seeing them.

    Contacting the angels and seeing them is not something easy. Although the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the best of mankind and was physically and spiritually strong to a great degree, when he saw Jibreel (peace be upon him) in his true form, he was stricken with immense fear and fled back to his house with his heart trembling. He (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) suffered great hardship when the revelation came to him, hence Allah said, refuting them (interpretation of the meaning):

    “On the Day they will see the angels no glad tidings will there be for the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) that day.” [25:22]

    That is because the kuffar only see the angels at the time of death or when the divine punishment descends, so when they are able to see angels, that is the day of their doom.

    It was essential that human messengers be sent, so that they would be able to address mankind, and so that mankind would be able to learn from them and understand. If Allah had sent messengers from among the angels to them, that would not have been possible.
    ‘Umar al-Ashqar, The Messengers and the Messages


    Hence humans are unable to see an angel in his true form unless Allah helps them, as He helped our Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم. It may be worth noting that Prophet Ibrahim عليه السلام represents the highest degree of perfect monotheism, whose example we have been enjoined to follow. Yet, when angels came to him in human form, he did not know that they were angels until they told him so.

    Allah supported His Prophets with various signs and miracles, and these were all by His permission and decree. The absolute Opulence, Knowledge, and Power belongs to Allah سبحانه وتعالى, and He is the One that breaks the norm for whomever He wishes. Allah ordered His Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم to deny that these supernatural phenomena are from his own self:
    Say, [O Muhammad], "I do not tell you that I have the depositories [containing the provision] of Allah or that I know the unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I only follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind equivalent to the seeing? Then will you not give thought?" [6:50]

    Likewise the Prophets before him like Nuh عليه السلام denied that such was from their own selves (refer to Qur'an 11:31).

    When the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم saw Jibril عليه السلام on the night of Mi'raj, Allah refers to this in the Qur'an in the following way,

    لَقَدْ رَأَىٰ مِنْ آيَاتِ رَبِّهِ الْكُبْرَىٰ
    He certainly saw of the greatest signs of his Lord. [53:18]

    Allah gifted this miracle of the Isra and Mi'raj to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم to console and strengthen him after a very difficult year.


    Only the amatuers would percieve a silly blur. But Allah is the Master and the Truth, and anyone blind to this Reality will see blurs in every component of their life in the dunya.
    The Islamic concept of Tawheed is so simple and pure, in line with the fitrah of mankind, that even a child with basic knowledge of Islam knows that Allah is totally distinct and separate from His creation.

    Second, the Qur'an and Sunnah are oceans of guidance. The depths and dimensions that one chooses (and is allowed to) immerse himself in are a whole different matter. Allah elevates whom He wills, and not everyone is on the same level, and not everyone has the same spiritual capacity to contain certain information.
    People are certainly of different levels. However, we have to be careful of what some misguided sects claim regarding 'hidden knowledge' which may only be attained by the elite. This leads to exploitation of followers by their unscrupulous leaders who demand unconditional obedience and claim that the understanding of all religious knowledge is their responsibility and monopoly alone.

    The following makes this clear:

    The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not die until he had conveyed the message of his Lord in the most perfect manner and explained to people what had been sent down to them from their Lord. He did not omit anything that would bring them closer to Paradise but he enjoined it upon them and encouraged and urged them to do it; and he did not omit anything that would bring them closer to Hell but he forbade them to do it and warned them against it.

    Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, has made the Qur’an easy for His slaves, as He, may He be glorified, says (interpretation of the meaning): “And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?” [al-Qamar 54:17]. Whoever seeks its goodness will attain it, and whoever learns it Allah will raise him in status thereby. There is nothing in it that is mysterious in nature or has hidden meanings that Allah has disclosed to one group to the exclusion of others, except what Allah may enable some of its people to attain of correct understanding and right opinions that are not contrary to any religious teachings at all, whether minor or major.

    As mentioned earlier, the path espoused by the Qur'an and Sunnah is very clear and open for every human to follow.


    Indeed. Likewise, the remembrance that Allah is the sole Reality; and that Allah is the all-encompassing; yes, this remembrance allows one to percieve his external world from a standpoint where he is always aware that Allah is the sole Light behind the veils. Such a disposition increases one's love and compassion for Allah and all things, for one can't help but see Oneess in multiplicity and love the Light of Allah behind everything in existence. Indeed, Allah is the all Pervading.
    Not so. We do not say Allah is the sole reality, neither do we say He is all-Pervading, as these are pantheistic ideas which suggest that Allah is the only existing being, that all in existence is a single reality and that the one who sees an existence other than that of Allah is the one who commits shirk. Such ideas are what lead the likes of al-Hallaj (who was executed because of his words of kufr and heresy) to declare that he and Allah were one. Similarly, Ibn Arabi (a leading personality among those who believe in pantheism) exhorted his followers in poetry to pray to themselves and not to anything outside of themselves because he believed that God was inside man. So this belief that Allah is the 'sole Reality' and the 'all Pervading' is extremely dangerous because it encourages, defends and rationalises the greatest sin in Allah's Sight; shirk. It is a belief that is taken from the teachings, philosophies and idolatry of the Hindus, Greeks, Jews, Christians and others, so it is based on fabrications and myths.

    As Muslims, we believe that Allah is above and beyond His creation. He is neither enclosed by the creation nor is any part of the creation above Him in any way. He is not a part of the created world nor is it a part of Him. His Being is totally distinct and separate from His creation. He is the Creator, and the universe and its contents are all a part of His creation.

    Let us not be deceived by what misguided groups try to present as ‘spiritual Islam'. True spiritual matters in Islam do not oppose the Shari’ah in any way.

    "Shake it." Your words, not mine.
    The words you used were, 'there are indeed dangers of someone being swayed by ideas like pantheism'. My point is that such would never be the case with understanding and reflecting upon the Qur'an and Sunnah, because the concept of Tawheed is conveyed in a very clear and unambiguous manner. Ideas like pantheism came from the likes of Greek and Hindu philosophy.

    The Qur'an and Sunnah maintain and strengthen the faith, and are thus critical; but they don't guarentee a Muslim attaining higher degrees of yaqeen. The latter is more of a luxury, and it's entirely an individual choice... indeed, Allah knows well the moral condition of his servants.
    Certainty is not a luxury, rather it is a condition of the Shahadah. This is certainty as opposed to doubt, whereby the person who says the Shahadah is absolutely certain about the meaning of these words, because faith does not count unless it is based on certain knowledge, not on knowledge based on speculation, let alone doubt. One of the greatest cures for doubt is knowledge; a sound knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah removes doubt. So by studying and understanding, one may attain certainty. As one studies and learns more, his certainty will be made firmer. One of the benefits of reflecting upon the Book of Allah is that it enables a person to reach the level of certain faith and knowledge that it is the words of Allah, because he will see that its parts confirm one another and are in harmony with one another.

    You may refer to it as "estoeric or confusing language," when it really could be sincere divulgings of a hyper-concious state of mind.
    Is there a reason these sincere divulgings are near-unintelligible? Why not follow the way set by the Qur'an, the Sunnah and statements of the Companions which present the truth in a clear and understandable manner?

    What Allah likes and dislikes is always in the context of relative existence, as these concepts themselves stem from an inherently dualistic approach. But Allah is the Absolute.
    This concept is explained below:
    ...He is the Creator and the universe and its contents are all a part of His creation. However, His attributes function without restriction in His creation. He sees, hears and knows all, and He is the prime cause of all that happens within the worlds of creation. Nothing happens without His will. Consequently, it may be said that the Islamic concept of Allah in relationship to His creation is essentially dualistic, but in relationship to Allah alone or creation alone it is strictly unitarian. It is dualistic in the sense that Allah is Allah, and creation is creation. Two separate entities, the Creator and the created, the Infinite and the finite. Neither is one the other nor are they both one. At the same time the Islamic concept is uncompromisingly unitarian in the sense that Allah is absolutely one, without parents, offspring or partner. He is unique in His divinity and nothing is similar to Him. He is the sole source of power in the universe and everything depends on Him. Likewise, it is firmly unitarian vis-a-vis creation, because all of the universe and its contents were created by Allah alone. All created beings and entities are the product of the same Creator, and, as such, are constructed from the same elemental substances, the building blocks of 'nature'.
    The Fundamentals of Tawheed, Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, p.108


    Well that sounds nice on paper but the reality is something different. Otherwise, everyone would be a Sunni Hanafi, and that's obviously not the case.

    The basis is already a given. It's only a matter of what perspective you choose to understand it from.
    The basis we are referring to is the methodology used to interpret the Qur'an, and because some people use incorrect means for interpretation then the basis is not a given. We are not allowed to say concerning Allah that which we do not know (refer to Qur'an 7:33, 17:36). Therefore, subjective opinion which is not based upon knowledge is prohibited as a means to interpret the Qur'an. The science of tafseer is one which, similar to the other sciences of Islam, is based on well-grounded, systematic principles.

    Differences in opinion are expected, and we accept opinions that are based upon sound methodology and knowledge. Those opinions that have no basis whatsoever are to be rejected.

    Again, it's not a case of substantiation, but that of interpretation. You are using a literal and materialistic approach to what Ibn Abbas said; I'm taking a metaphysical one. Perhaps the real answer lies somewhere in the middle.
    It is difficult to imagine that Ibn Abbas' words should not be taken literally or that he somehow meant other than what he clearly stated. He explained 'all the names (of everything)' to mean the names that people use, such as human, animal, sky, earth, land, sea, horse, donkey, and so forth, including the names of the other species. Consider, in another narration, Ibn Abbas رضي الله عنه was asked, 'Did Allah teach him the names of the plate and the pot,' and he replied, 'Yes, and even the terms for breaking wind!' To suggest this has a metaphysical meaning as being the Names of Allah sounds very disrespectful and moreover absurd. Such is the case when one plays with interpretation and words are stripped of their intended meanings. The person quoting Ibn Abbas, Ibn Kathir, clearly did not think there was a hidden meaning here. He went on to mention a hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari in which the believers will go to the Prophets on the Day of Judgement. At the end of it he comments:

    The reason why we mentioned this Hadith here is the Prophet's statement,
    (They will go to Adam and say, `O Adam! You are the father of all mankind, and Allah created you with His Own Hand, ordered the angels to prostrate for you, and taught you the names of everything). This part of the Hadith testifies to the fact that Allah taught Adam the names of all creatures. This is why Allah said,(Then He showed them to the angels) meaning, the objects or creations.
    http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?opt...sk=view&id=405

    One can also research what other scholars have stated regarding this verse, such as what Imaam al-Shawkaani said in Fath al-Qadeer (1/64): “The ‘names’ are phrases or expressions, and what is meant is the names of the objects whose names Allaah taught him. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars, and this is the true meaning of the word ism (name). This is confirmed by the word all (all the names), which indicates that He taught him all the names and did not omit anything, no matter what it was.”

    Sure, but I never mentioned a new revelation. Islam is the last and perfect religion, so there's no point in another revelation.
    If you suggest that Allah سبحانه وتعالى could reveal certain information from the unseen, then you are talking about a new revelation, because that which was disclosed to the Messenger of matters of the unseen was only through revelation from Allah. Allah سبحانه وتعالى says (interpretation of the meaning):
    Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): "I don't tell you that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor (that) I know the Unseen; nor I tell you that I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." [al-An‘aam 6:50].


    That is why I am clarifying that the revelation of Allah سبحانه وتعالى stopped and its door closed forever after the death of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم, the last Prophet. There is no revelation after him.

    Indeed. Again, all I did was provide two hypotheticals to the table in response to your argument. No claims were made.
    Whether it is a hypothesis or a claim, either way it doesn't hold any weight. Islam is a religion that is based upon evidence and firm foundations.
    Last edited by Muhammad; 2 Days Ago at 02:53 PM.
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