the allegation of being khawarij is thrown about perhaps much more widely than it should be, even by some moderaters on this forum i am sad to say.
so can they show to me who are the khawarij today?
i understand that the khawarij were innovators, many of them amongst the first to inniciate the bidah of group zikhr but being an innovator doesnt make you khawarij surely and no one makes that allegation.
others point out that the khawarij were takfiri, yes that is true but so were the rightly guided kalifs on occassion so being takfiri doesnt make someone khawarij.
others point out that the khawarij would wage war upon the muslims and leave the kuffar alone... well that surely applies more to the apostate regimes than those they accuse of being khawarij for wanting to remove them for revealing by other than Allah has revealled.
so who are the khawarij really?
can anyone give me a rock solid definition of one please - so i can differentiate the 'good' mujahid from the 'bad' khawarij ones.
ok my understanding akhee is that khawaarij do not take the middle path and are not moderate as islam indicates we should be for example the go overboard with takfeer (as u mention) and this is nothing like the khalifa's use to do,
according to khawaarij - anyone without 100% same belief = kaafir
according to khalifa - anyone who clearly associates partners with Allah swt and rejects any ayyat of the Quran = kaafir (this is my understanding).
Basically i see them as opposite to murjiy, where murjiys are guys who are lik "oooh you drank Alcohol, doont worry Allah will forgive" and khawaarij are like "OMG U KAAFIR, U DRINK ALCOHOL? YOU DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!! DIIIIE"
am i making sence>?
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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Hold on...I could swear that there was a tribe called khawarij, the ones who were bannished from Madinah, hence people have been comparing some muslims to them.......Well I must have had the wrong idea...
ok my understanding akhee is that khawaarij do not take the middle path and are not moderate as islam indicates we should be for example the go overboard with takfeer (as u mention) and this is nothing like the khalifa's use to do,
according to khawaarij - anyone without 100% same belief = kaafir
according to khalifa - anyone who clearly associates partners with Allah swt and rejects any ayyat of the Quran = kaafir (this is my understanding).
Basically i see them as opposite to murjiy, where murjiys are guys who are lik "oooh you drank Alcohol, doont worry Allah will forgive" and khawaarij are like "OMG U KAAFIR, U DRINK ALCOHOL? YOU DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE!!! DIIIIE"
am i making sence>?
jazakallah, yes you are making sense. this is my understanding too,
that the khawarij believe committing a major sin is kufr as well, and although this could be applied to some of the more extreme elements in algeria if the allegations about them are to be believed but still i dont see it being applied to all those who are labelled as khawarij amongst the mujahadeen.
in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.
EDIT: IbnAbdulHakim explained it quite well, the habit of unrestriced takfeer is quite a characteristic of them, similar to how ibn laaden called sheikh ibn baaz (may allah have mercy on him) a kaafir
in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.
EDIT: IbnAbdulHakim explained it quite well, the habit of unrestriced takfeer is quite a characteristic of them, similar to how ibn laaden called sheikh ibn baaz (may allah have mercy on him) a kaafir
can you elaborate inshaAllah
I am quite familiar with the khawaarij during the time of Ali RA, they made me sick but how are they like the Al-Qaeeda?
JazakAllahu khairan
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
in the mukhtassar saheeh al-bukhari that i own which is translated it gives a definition of islamic terms: the khawaarij being people who dissent from the deen and disagree with the rest of the muslims...I was listening to a lecture which points out the similarity between the khawaarij who killed ali (may allaah be pleased with him) and the ones of today including al-qaedah and hizb-ut-tehreer.
assalaamu alaykum,
that is once again an allegation and certainly not a definition.
as for al-qaeda i have heard they have made declarations of takfir against many muslim governments for ruling by other than Allah has revealed but i do not think they have gone beyond the rulers, they are not declaring the people to be kaffirs for committing major sins or other matters such as this.
as for for the HT's, they said voting is kufr, but they did not make takfir, only said it was kufr and i certainly dont think they fit into the catagory of khawarij as many of them do not pray and are from from the khawarij in their attachment to ibadah etc.
Audhubillah, only the extreme people would call mujahideen khawaarij without clear clear proof !
btw, do khawaarij accept difference of opinion? i really doubt they do...
hizb-ut-tehreer even made some strange declarations like 'there is no such thing as an extremist'....and just to let you know many former afghan mujahideen talk about how ibn laaden and his group's ideologies do consist of such things as unrestricted takfeer and the killing of women and children etc., about how he showed some disrespect to sheikh abdullah azzam, anyway I don't want to stray off topic...
there are strange allegations everywhere and in all honesty i dont trust allegations at all ! Did you know that the saudi salafi's (sh. ibn baaz etc) are also considered khawaarij by some imaams due to them declaring kufr on certain issues? Audhubillah we seek refuge in Allah from making such judgements especially when our knowledge is so little.
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
there are strange allegations everywhere and in all honesty i dont trust allegations at all ! Did you know that the saudi salafi's (sh. ibn baaz etc) are also considered khawaarij by some imaams due to them declaring kufr on certain issues? Audhubillah we seek refuge in Allah from making such judgements especially when our knowledge is so little.
like who? Abdullah Al-Faisal, the same guy who said we should kill all christians and hindus?
I think the problem of today that many muslim don't have the knowledge of the deen properly, so soonas the see a word hurled about, by media, or those so called moderate muslim they unconciousely stick to it. Yeah they must be right, the are Kwarji.
Other word's that have been distorted by the media, and some muslims is the word wa**bi, Salaf & even Moderate.
Most brother's don't know what moderate mean's, basicly in mean's staying in the middle path, not going to either excess on matter of religion.
It has been washed down by the media to be connote some kind of passiveness.
Even if you use the word moderate as it has been distorted.
Last edited by Skillganon; 12-02-2006 at 07:07 PM.
moderate from the media perspective is the extreme liberal muslims while the terrorists are fundamentalists ie. ultra conservatives who as a matter of fact are truly following islam.
moderate from the media perspective is the extreme liberal muslims while the terrorists are fundamentalists ie. ultra conservatives who as a matter of fact are truly following islam.
Yes, true in some sense. However we should not labell ourselve with such connotation they use other than what is already establish in Islam and what the sahaba used and followed. It will ovoid confusion in the ummah.
When did OBL call Ibn Bâz kâfir? And why? Can you provide links or sources jazâk Allâhu khayran..
I can't provide links or anything but I think, believe it or not, it goes like this, Ibn Baaz was writing letters to OBL condemning what he did and told him to desist and not to follow such a path, OBL called him a kaafir in return and you can see fatwas by Ibn Baaz saying pretty much advising people not to follow his path.
The very first sect to split away from the main body of the Muslims. They will remain in the Ummah till they fight alongside Dajjal against this Ummah.
The Khawaarij are a sect which came out to kill 'Alee ibn Abee Taalib (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) concerning the issue of Ruling/ leadership.
Their chosen path was one of distancing themselves from 'Uthmaan ibn 'Affaan and 'Alee ibn Abee Taalib (radhi-yallaahu 'anhumaa), and condoning walking out against the Imaam (leader) and seeking to overthrow him if he opposes the Sunnah. Likewise, they would make takfeer (render someone a kaafir) of anyone who commits a major sin and claim that he will forever abide in the Fire of Hell.
Ash-Shahrastaanee defines them as: ((Anyone who walks out against (seeking to overthrow) the true appointed Imaam (leader) upon whose leadership the Jamaa'ah is in agreement is called a Khaarijee. This is the case, despite whether the walking out (against the Imaam) occurred in the days of the Rightly-Guided Khulafaa. or other than them from the Taabi'een)).
And some of the pious predecessors used to call all those who practiced Islaam based upon their desires as Khawaarij.
The Khawaarij were the first sect to appear in the history of Islaam, splitting up into more than 20 different sub-sects. However, it is said that the major sub-sects of the Khawaarij are seven:
Ėk Gusā Alhu Mėrā
The One Lord, the Lord of the World, is my God Allah.
Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Mahraaj Ji!
Kal Meh Bėḏ Atharbaṇ Hū Nā Kẖuḏā Alhu Bẖa.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.
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! ye it was him but my point is that we cant trust allegations, you with me hijrah?
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