Qelalah-Qataluh Hebrew-Arabic connection?

The 5 Semitic languages Arabic, Syriac, Hebrew, Phoenician and Aramaic are dialects of the same language. The only argument is which of the existing ones are the true original language. All 5 of the languages share many of the same words and for the most part a speaker of anyone can understand the other 4. The Writing is a bit difficult as each has it's own Alphabet. But the letters essentially are equivalent to each other except in shape.

format_quote Originally Posted by SalamChristian

I'm sorry that might sound confusing. It's just that I am wondering what it means to kill "hem." Does "hem" mean soul?

I am quite certain the Sister intended to use the word HIM.

For many of our members English is their second or even 3rd/4th language and often words are spelled phonetically in the way it sounds to the writer.

قتلوه translates into English as "They Kill him"

format_quote Originally Posted by SalamChristian

Of course. I cannot speak Arabic at all, and I am asking for help in the language, so I must commend the sister for her being much more proficient than I am. Thank you for your answers. May I ask, then, what is meant when you say "his soul vanishes" and "the soul has vanished?" Does qataluh mean both "they kill him" and also have something to do with the soul vanishing?

Thank you again for your patience,
Bob

I am very poor in Arabic although I can read it reasonably well and carry on general conversations in the Darija dialect. But in my limited understanding I do not see the soul vanishing in the word qataluh. The soul (al-Ruh) and the Physical body in Islam are very similar to the concepts in mainstream Christianity however in Islam the Ruh and the body are more closely in the concept of being one unit.

format_quote Originally Posted by SalamChristian

Thank you again. Here is a link to the Hebrew word "qelalah" which I think may be connected to "qataluh:"

strongsnumbers . com /hebrew/7045.htm

I had to put spaces in between because I am new and not allowed to post links. However, I did anyway because, as you can see, this is not an inappropriate link.

on this page you will see the word both in Hebrew and in English transliteration (sounding out).

Do you see any connection?

Salaam

They seem to be from the same root. However the definitions may have changed over the years. The Hebrew קללה translated from Hebrew directly into the Arabic is لعنة

Which translates into English as "curse", which is the same as the Hebrew קללה translates into English.

It makes me suspect that the original word common to the original language, before Hebrew/Arabic became separate dialects was a specific curse wishing death upon a person.

format_quote Originally Posted by SalamChristian

Thank you very much, Woodrow. Bless you for having helped me. I have been thinking the same as you, and it has been very difficult to express because I do not speak Arabic. This may seem like a small question, but it has very large implications for promoting peace between Islam and Christianity. I have been letting Allah guide me in studying the Qu'ran and how it relates to the Injeel, and submitting myself completely to his will, and I have discovered something very interesting:

In Christianity we study both the Taurat and the Injeel, and as Muhammad(pbuh) said, these were both the revealed Word of Allah (even though we pettily disputed over them, which I concede). Let me share with you a very important commandment in the Taurat:

"If someone is guilty of a capital offense, hang their body on a tree. You must not leave the body hanging on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God’s curse [qelalah eloihim]." (Deuteronomy 21:22-23)

This is the only punishment in the entire Taurat and Injeel which brings God's curse, or in Hebrew "qelalah eloihim". In Arabic I would imagine the Jews would translate this as "qataluh allahi?" By "god's curse" I believe this means that someone hung on a tree is ****ed by God.

I find this is very important because as Mohammed (pbuh) recorded faithfully in Sura 4:157

"and they [the Jews] said in boast, qatalna almaseeha AAeesa"

as in "qataluh." If this means curse/****ation, as it probably meant to the Jews, then our holy books are in agreement.

In Christianity, we absolutely do not believe that Jesus was ****ed by God, as the Jews may have boasted. We believe the Jews were trying to curse Jesus (pbuh) "qelalah eloihim" by hanging him on the cross. There is testimony of this in the Injeel. However, we believe they failed, and ultimately Judas hung himself on a tree.

I believe Muhammad (pbuh) may also have been recording this in the Qu'ran, as it says "wama qataloohu . . . walakin shubbiha lahum." But it was made to appear to them so. This is exactly what we believe.

I am thinking that perhaps our holy books are actually in agreement on this point, and that our dispute over what happened to Jesus was not created by Allah, but by men and mistranslation.

Salaam,
Bob

Peace Bob,

If I am correctly understanding you, we are very much in agreement. There should be no conflict between the True Tauret, Zaboor, Injil and Qur'an as each was/is the true word of Allaah(swt) when in it's original form. It is only the misunderstandings and perhaps at times deliberate alterations that changes occurred. Hebrew ceased to be a spoken language sometime before the book of Isaiah was written after that and all through the NT Aramaic was the language used. Hebrew did not again become a spoken language until 1947 and while it is somewhat based upon actual Hebrew it is not the Hebrew used by the OT Jews. When a language is changed, thoughts and concepts change with it, which is one of the reasons we stress for all Muslims to at least attempt to learn Arabic and for those who do know Arabic to strive to become Hafiz and memorize the Qur'an in the original Arabic. This is one of the safeguards that assures the Qur'an of today is the same as what Muhammad(PBUH) recited.

format_quote Originally Posted by SalamChristian

Would it not then be better to translate Sura 4:157 as:

"and because of their boasting: We ****ed the Messiah, Jesus (pbuh) . . . they ****ed him not"

?

the "qelalah" "qataluh" correlation and the commandment/prophecy of the Taurat I quoted above concerning hanging someone on a tree to bring upon them God's ****ation provide so much evidence to me that the real point in Sura 4:157 is about ****ation, not simply physical death. This difference in English words would do a great deal to promote peace and understanding between Western Christians and Islam, because our word for kill does not imply ****ation, whereas it seems "qataluh" does.

Salaam,
Bob

As we believe Jesus(as) did not die and was lifted to heaven alive and will return to complete his life the simple and direct concept of kill is more in agreement with the context. Arabic can be a bit strange. For many words there are a multitude of definitions and to understand what is meant you have to read almost the entire surat to grasp the context. This is one of those case were the root Qa-Ta-Luh قتلوه (Killed Him) is what was intended and is in agreement with the context of the Surat. to denote it specifiacally as meaning the soul has vanished it would have to be written as al-qa-tal. قتل without the وه