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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 04:50 AM
I am going to post a series of article. If there are any errors in them, I welcome members to correct them.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 04:51 AM
Judging With Justice About Judaism


HARUN YAHYA


*

In some of this author's earlier works, it has been explained that a merciless policy of occupation, oppression and massacre is being carried out against Muslims of the Middle East by some Jews who have adopted Zionism, which is a racist ideology. The human rights violations committed by Israel in the Middle East and in other regions were also explained. Surely, every Muslim and person of conscience and justice from every belief would condemn this unjust oppression and is right to do so.

However, the other side of the coin also deserves attention; both in history and in our day, some Jews are being unjustly targetted and subjected to violence by the members of other beliefs or nations.


The racist hatred felt for the Jews which is known as "anti-Semitism" is embraced by various fanatical groups, regimes or racist organisations. Today, many Jewish people face oppression because of this ideology.


This form of violence must definitely be opposed.


We are against Zionism, which is purely a racist and cruel ideology. Similarly, we are also against anti-Semitism, that is hatred felt for Jews, which is a racist and cruel ideology as well. That is because, our belief calls for a just and tolerant treatment against every nation and belief. In one verse, God commands us to uphold justice for each nation:


You who believe! Be upholders of justice, bearing witness for God alone, even against yourselves or your parents and relatives. Whether they are rich or poor, God is well able to look after them. Do not follow your own desires and deviate from the truth. If you twist or turn away, God is aware of what you do. (The Qur'an , 4: 135)


If someone criticises and hurts an innocent Jew because of the crimes of Zionism, he violates justice. He would again violate justice and err, if he ever condemns different Jewish communities in the world, the members of the Jewish community in Turkey for instance, due to the unjust Israeli invasion and attacks. He would diverge from justice and commit a great sin, if he ever resorts to retaliation against Israeli invasion and organizes acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians. In this article, we will briefly deal with the concepts of Zionism, Judaism and anti-Semitism and explain the attitude a Muslim should assume with respect to this subject.


The Tolerance Displayed by Islam to the People of Book


In 70 AD, Jews were expelled from Palestine, their homeland they had dwelled for thousands of years, by the pagan Roman Empire and for the remaining 19 centuries lived in diaspora, that is in exile. Throughout this period, they were subjected to oppression and cruelty in most of the Christian countries. They were exiled and even mass executed. During this period, they found the most peaceful and secure environment in the lands of Islam. In the world of Islam, anti-Semitism never flourished; Jews (and Christians) were always allowed to follow their own faiths and even observe their own law, free of any form of oppression and cruelty.


The main reason of this spirit of tolerance and security is the Koranic morality. In the Qur'an , Jews and Christians are named "the People of the Book" and Muslims are advised to establish friendly relations with the People of the Book. The Qur'an allows Muslims to marry the women of the People of the Book and to accept an invitation to a meal. (Surat al-Maida:5) These commands show that bonds of kinship may be established as a result of the marriage of a Muslim with a woman from the People of the Book, and that both sides of the union can accept each other's invitation to a meal. These are the fundamentals that will ensure the establishment of equitable human relationships and a happy communal life.


In the Qur'an , God commands Muslims to ensure the security of even the idolaters who do not comply with the revelations of God: "If any of the idolaters ask you for protection, give them protection until they have heard the words of God. Then convey them to a place where they are safe." (Surat at-Tawba: 6) Meanwhile, Muslims must show more respect, tolerance and goodness to the People of the Book who, compared with idolaters, harbor a faith very similar to those of Muslims.


In another verse, God commands Muslims to be good to all non-Muslims - including the People of the Book - provided that they do display enmity towards Muslims:


God does not forbid you from being good to those who have not fought you in the religion or driven you from your homes,or from being just towards them. God loves those who are just...(The Qur'an , 60:8)


Consequently, Muslims are responsible for establishing very warm neighbourly relations with Jews and Christians living in the same community. In a country where Muslims are in majority, the People of the Book are entrusted to Muslims. Making them live in peace and security and protecting them against any danger is a religious duty on Muslims. As was witnessed many times in history, targeting Jews only because of their beliefs, depriving them of their civil rights, sending them to horrible concentration camps is a great cruelty. In the same way a Muslim condemns such cruelty, so must he do his best to prevent it.


Ignorant people are obsessed by "holding prejudice against those who are not like them". That is the reason why numerous accusations and hearsay were spread about Jews both in the past, particularly in the medieval Europe, and today. Still today, under the conditioning of such myths, some people subconsciously hold prejudice and feel antipathy towards Jews. A Muslim can never assume such a crude outlook and attitude. God relates us the existence of the "People of the Book" as a fact, explained us the issues about which they hold misconceptions yet also commanded us to treat them well. In one verse, God commands us to say the following to the People of the Book:


We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him. (The Qur'an , 29:46)


Separating Zionism and Judaism From One Another


As mentioned above, the tolerant attitude that must be assumed by Muslims towards the People of the Book has manifested itself throughout the Islamic history. For centuries, Muslims treated Jews in a friendly manner and Jews responded to this friendship with loyalty. The factor that disturbs this picture is Zionism.


Zionism emerged in the 19th century. The two particular characteristics of the 19th century Europe also influenced Zionism: racism and colonisation. Another outstanding characteristic of Zionism is that it is an idelogy far removed from religion. Those Jews, who were the ideological mentors of Zionism, had weak religious beliefs. Furthermore, most of them were atheists. They regarded Judaism not as a religious unity but as the name of a race. They maintained that Jews represented a distinct race from European nations and thus it was impossible for Jews to live with them and that they definitely needed a homeland of their own. The choice of Palestine was not grounded on religious factors but on historical ones.


By the moment Zionism emerged in Middle East, it brought nothing but conflicts and pain. In the period between the two world wars, Zionist terrorist organisations organised bloody attacks against the Arabs and the British. In 1948, after the foundation of Israel, Zionism's expansionist strategy drifted the entire Middle East to an utter chaos.


The starting point of Zionism that carried out all this cruelty was not Judaism but Social Darwinism, a racist and colonialist ideology which was a legacy of the 19th century. Social Darwinism, which fostered a constant struggle among people by imposing on them the philosophy, "the strong win and the weak are doomed to lose", drifted the German nation to Nazism as it drifted Jews to Zionism.


Today many religious Jews who criticise Zionism stress the same fact. Some of these religious Jews even do not see the state of Israel as a legitimate entity and thus refuse to recognise it. The Israeli statesman Amnon Rubinstein says: "Zionism is a revolt againt their (Jews') fatherland and the synagouge of the Rabbis".


Rabbi Forsythe, on the other hand, maintains that from the 19th century on, Jews diverged from religion and fear of God, an act which entailed a punishment that came in the form of Hitler's cruelty and thus called Jews to be more religious. Forsythe stated that cruelty and mischief on earth are deeds engaged in by Amalek (disbelievers in the terminology of Torah) and added: "The Jew must be antithetical to the essence of Amalek, which is wildness, abandonment of Torah and Godliness, evil, immorality, cruelty, absence of order or right, lack of authority and law."


Zionism, which practices just the contrary, is actually a form of fascism, and fascism stems from disbelief, not from religion. Consequently, the one who is actually responsible for the bloodshed in the Middle East is not Judaism but Zionism, a fascist ideology that has nothing to do with religion.


However, as in the case of other versions of fascism, Zionism also attempted to make use of religion for its own ends.


Misinterpretation of the Torah by Zionists


The Torah is a holy book God revealed to Prophet Moses. God says in the Qur'an : "We sent down the Torah containing guidance and light..." (The Qur'an , 5:44) As is also informed in the Qur'an , the Torah was later distorted with the incorporation of human words in it. That is why what we have today is the "Distorted Torah."


However, an examination into the Torah reveals the existence of numerous peculiarities of the True Religion in this once revealed Book. Many issues introduced by the true religion such as faith in God, submission to Him, being grateful to Him, fear of God, love of God, justice, compassion, mercy, opposing cruelty and injustice prevail throughout the Torah and the other books of the Old Testament.


Apart from this, the wars that went down in history and the carnages during these wars are related in the Torah. If one's purpose is to find a basis - although by distorting the facts - for the cruelty, massacres and murders, then he can well take these sections in the Torah as reference for himself. Zionism resorts to this very method to legitimise its terrorism which is actually a fascist terrorism and it has become quite succesful. For instance, it has already used the sections related to wars and massacres in the Torah to legitimise the massacres it carried out against the innocent people of Palestine. This is an insincere interpretation, however. Zionism makes use of religion to legitimise its fascist and racist ideology.


Indeed, many religious Jews oppose the employment of these sections of the Torah as a reference for the murders committed against the people of Palestine, which is the right thing to do. The Neturie Karta, an organization of anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews, proclaim that, in fact, "according to the Torah, Jews are not allowed to shed blood, harm, humiliate or dominate another people". They further stress that, "Zionist politicians and their fellow travellers do not speak for the Jewish people, the name Israel has been stolen by them".


Zionism, by pursuing the cruel policy of occupation in the Middle East under the cloak of "Judaism", actually does harm to Judaism and Jews all over the world and makes the citizens of Israel or the diaspora Jews the target of fanatics who are willing to take revenge from Zionism.


At this point, it deserves mention that there are also people who, in the name of Islam, want to employ the insincerity of "making use of religion for the cause of fascism". These people carry out horrible violence against innocent people and then try to justify these acts by misinterpreting the verses in the Qur'an that are related to war and jihad. However, these verses actually describe a hot-war-situation carried out against people who have declared war on Muslims. Those who attempt to justify their murders by misinterpreting these verses with wicked intentions are actually people who do not fear God and who exploit religion for the sake of the passion they feel for cruelty. Indeed, God informs us in the Qur'an that such people with wicked intentions often try to misinterpret verses in the Qur'an . (The Qur'an , 3:7)


In reality, neither Islam, nor Judaism and Christianity approve unjust violence and cruelty. However, there may be fanatical, violence-ridden, merciless people in every faith. Wicked people whose main ambition is to shed blood, inflict pain and oppress people out of their arrogance and pride may distort the concepts of these religions and exploit them.


This leads us to an important conclusion: the efforts of Zionism to employ Judaism for their own ends can never be the justification of "hatred felt for Jews." Muslims oppose Zionism, not "the People of the Book."




Conclusion


It is not unusual that Muslims show reaction to the crimes committed by Zionism against humanity and that these crimes evoke feelings of hatred in them. However, such hatred should never turn into an unjust reaction. God warns us in the Qur'an thus: "Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. That is closer to piety. Have fear of God. God is aware of what you do. (The Qur'an , 5:8)


In compliance with this principle of justice;


o We recognise the right of the existence of Israel: The Jewish citizens of Israel have the right to live in peace and security in Palestine, the lands of their ancestors. However, they must absolutely recognise the right of the existence of Muslim Palestinians, the other owners of Palestine, on the same lands. In this sense, they must cease to occupy their lands and restore the destruction they have done for more than 30 years and recompense for it.


o We advocate that the Jewish citizens in our country (Turkey) and all other diaspora Jews should live a peaceful and secure life free of any form of concerns and fears. We wish that unacceptable means of pressure on Jews such as the "Wealth Tax" that was once taken from Jewish citizens in Turkey, a shameful page in history, never recur. We also wish that Turkish citizens of Jewish, Greek, Armenian, Catholic, Protestant origin and all other communities, that is to say, "the People of the Book", can observe their respective beliefs, customs and traditions and lifestyles and thus enjoy a free and comfortable life in our country.


In truth, the People of the Book and Muslims are not enemies. As a matter of fact, they are allies. Especially, in our age when the world has been invaded by atheist and anti-religious ideologies, Christians, Jews and Muslims, the defenders of the same moral values and worshippers of the same God, must co-operate.


Concerning the People of the Book, God gives Muslims a command in the Qur'an ; to rally to a common formula:


O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God. (The Qur'an , 3 :64)


This is also our call to Jews and Christians: As the people who believe in God and obey His revelations, let us rally to a common formula, to the word of "faith".


Let us love our Creator and our Lord, our One God. Let us obey His commands. And, let us pray that our Lord guides us to the right path.


Once Muslims, Christians and Jews rally to this formula and once they realise that they are not enemies but actually friends and that their actual enemies are disbelief and atheism, the world will be a different place. The conflicts, enmities, fears and acts of terrorism, that have been going on for centuries will come to end and a "peace of civilisations" based on a "common formula", love, respect and peace will be established.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 04:52 AM
Distinguishing Between Zionism and Judaism


HARUN YAHYA


*



In the summer of 1982 there began a great savagery that caused the whole world to cry out in protest. The Israeli Army entered Lebanon in a sudden attack, and moved forward destroying every target that appeared before it. The Israelis surrounded the refugee camps, where Palestinians lived who had fled the Israeli occupation years before, and for two days used Lebanese Christian militias to slaughter innocent civilians. Within a few days, thousands of innocent people had been massacred.


This terrible Israeli terrorism outraged the whole world. The interesting thing, however, is that some of the protests came from Jews, even Israeli Jews. Professor Benjamin Cohen of Tel Aviv University penned a statement on June 6, 1982, saying:


I am writing to you while listening to a transistor that has just announced that 'we' are in the process of 'realizing our objectives' in Lebanon: to insure 'peace' for the residents of Galilee. These lies worthy of Goebbels make me mad. It is clear that this savage war, more barbaric than any of those preceding it, has nothing to do with the attempt in London or the security of Galilee ... Jews, sons of Abraham ... Jews, victims themselves of so much cruelty, how can they become so cruel? ... The greatest success of Zionism is the 'dejudaisation' of the Jews. [1]


Benjamin Cohen was not the only Israeli to oppose the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. Many Jewish intellectuals living in Israel condemned the savagery carried out by their own state.


This attitude was not restricted to the occupation of Lebanon. Israel's oppression of the Palestinians, its insistence on its policy of occupation, and its links with the semi-fascist administrations in the former racist Apartheid regime in South Africa had been criticized for many years by many prominent intellectuals in Israel. This Jewish criticism was aimed not just at the policies of Israel, but also at Zionism, its official ideology.


This situation is the expression of a very important truth: Israel's policy of occupation and state terrorism from 1967 up to the present stems from the ideology of Zionism, and many Jews in the world are opposed to it.


For Muslims, therefore, the concepts that should be criticized are not Judaism or the Jewish nation, but Zionism. In the same way that an anti-Nazi can have no hatred for the German people, so he can have none for the Jewish people because he opposes Zionism.


*


The Racist Roots of Zionism


*


After the Jews were expelled from Jerusalem in 70 AD, they began to spread to different parts of the world. During this period of the 'diaspora,' which lasted up to the 19th century, the vast majority of Jews saw themselves as a religious group. Over time, most Jews adopted the culture of the countries they lived in. Hebrew was left as a sacred language used in prayers and religious texts. Jews in Germany began to speak German, and those in Britain, English. When certain social restrictions on Jews in European countries were lifted in the 19th century, through emancipation, Jews began to assimilate with the societies they were living in. Most Jews saw themselves as a 'religious community,' not as a 'race' or 'nation.' They described themselves as 'Jewish Germans,' 'Jewish Britons,' or 'Jewish Americans.'


As we know, however, there was a huge rise in racism in the 19th century. Racist ideas, influenced in particular by Darwin's theory of evolution, grew enormously and found many supporters in Western societies. Zionism was the effect this racist storm had among the Jews.


The Jews who propagated the idea of Zionism were people with very weak religious beliefs. They saw "Jewishness" as the name of a race, not as a community of belief. They suggested that the Jews were a separate race from European nations, that it was impossible for them to live together and that it was essential they establish their own homeland. They did not rely on religious thinking when deciding where that homeland should be. Theodor Herzl, the founder of Zionism, once thought of Uganda, and this became known as the 'Uganda Plan.' The Zionists later decided on Palestine. The reason for this was Palestine was regarded as 'the Jews' historic homeland' rather than for any religious significance it had for them.


The Zionists made great efforts to get other Jews to accept these non-religious ideas. The World Zionist Organization that was set up undertook vast propaganda work in almost countries with Jewish populations, and began to suggest that Jews could not live peacefully with other nations and that they were a separate 'race,' for which reason they had to go and settle in Palestine. Most Jewish communities ignored these calls.


In this way, Zionism entered world politics as a racist ideology which maintained that Jews should not live with other nations. First of all, this mistaken idea created grave problems for and pressure on Jews living in the diaspora. Then for Muslims in the Middle East, it brought the Israeli policy of occupation and annexation, together with bloodshed, death, poverty and terror.


Many Jews today criticize the ideology of Zionism. Rabbi Hirsch, one of the foremost Jewish men of religion, said, 'Zionism wants to define the Jewish people as a national entity ... which is a heresy.' [2]


The famous French Muslim thinker Roger Garaudy wrote this on the subject:


The worst enemy of the prophetic Jewish faith is the nationalist, racist and colonialist logic of tribal Zionism, born of the nationalism, racism and colonialism of 19th century Europe. This logic, which inspired all the colonialisms of the West and all its wars of one nationalism against another, is a suicidal logic. There is no future or security for Israel and no peace in the Middle East unless Israel becomes "dezionized" and returns to the faith of Abraham, which is the spiritual, fraternal and common heritage of the three revealed religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. [3]


For this reason, therefore, we must distinguish between Judaism and Zionism. Not every Jew in the world is a Zionist. True Zionists are a minority in the Jewish world. Moreover, there are a great many Jews who oppose Zionism's crimes against humanity, who want Israel to withdraw at once from all the territory it has occupied, and say that instead of being a racist 'Jewish state' Israel should be a free state where all races and communities can live together in equality.


While Muslims rightfully oppose Israel and Zionism, they must also bear these truths in mind, and remember that it is not the Jews who are the problem, but Zionism.




Footnotes
1-"Professor Leibowitz calls Israeli politics in Lebanon Judeo-Nazi" Yediot Aharonoth, July 2, 1982
2-Washington Post, October 3, 1978
3-Roger Garaudy, "Right to Reply: Reply to the Media Lynching of Abbe Pierre and Roger Garaudy", Samizdat, June 1996
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 04:53 AM
What Should a Muslim's View of
the People of the Book and Zionism Be?

HARUN YAHYA

Muslims’ attitude towards Jews should be as ordained by the Quran. God reveals in the Qur’an that Jews, like Christians, are part of the people of the book. Muslims as well as Jews believe in the same God and follow the examples set by the prophets sent by Him with due love and respect. Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Moses, David and Solomon (peace be upon them all) are as important to Muslims as they are to Jews. Muslims address the Jews and the Christians as follows in the Qur’an: “We believe in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him.” (Qur’an, 29:46) All forms of social relations between Muslims and Jews must be within a framework of justice, peace and security, and Muslims’ attitude towards Jews must always be reconciliatory, forgiving and tolerant.

At various times in their history, Jews suffered oppression and genocide. The main culprit behind such atrocities is anti-Semitic ideology, which led to many tragic events in the 20th century. The true meaning of the term is hatred of Semites, although it is generally understood to mean hatred of Jews. It expresses a hatred for people of Semite descent or the Semitic race. The underlying reason for this hatred for the Semitic races is the hatred felt for the divine religions revealed to them. In other words, Nazism’s and other fascist movements’ hostility towards Jews is in reality a hatred of religion. Anti-Semitism is therefore a pagan teaching that cannot be adopted by any Muslim. People who advocate and incite anti-Semitism are often revealed to be people who also advocate a return to idolatrous practices and war, who enjoy merciless bloodshed, and who are uncontrolled and barbaric. Such people oppose the peace, modesty, love and compassion of true religious morality taught by the prophets. Muslims and Jews are on the same side against such tyrants. Islam aims to bring justice to the world and condemns anti-Semitism, as it does all forms of racism. Muslims support the right of the Jews, like all other people, to live in peace and security. Muslim principles have throughout the course of history guaranteed refuge in Muslim lands to Jews fleeing persecution at various times. Jews exiled from Spain were welcomed by the Ottoman Empire, and thousands of them settled down there. The anti-Semitic sentiments often seen in Christian countries never developed on Muslim soil. Jews and Muslims in Muslim lands have lived side by side in peace and security for centuries. It was Islamic principles that created this secure environment.

A Muslim must always bear these facts in mind in his thinking and behaviour regarding Jews. However, Judaism and Zionism must be distinguished between. The ideology of Zionism is principally responsible for the years of endless conflict and war, bloodshed and tears in Palestine. However, Zionism and its real plans are not well known in the West. Many people in the West have been conditioned to believe that Zionism is an ideology which advocates a homeland for the Jewish people and are therefore sympathetic to this ideology, although the reality is altogether different.

It is true that Zionism seeks the creation of a homeland for Jews and that Zionists work to that end. This struggle, however, is probably the most unjustified, cruel and merciless ever waged. Zionism developed in the 19th century to create a homeland for the Jews, and its adherents’ chosen land was Palestine, also regarded by Jews as their holy land. What began as a legitimate and just cause turned into an ethnic cleansing and ruthless colonising project that totally disregarded the native Muslim Arab population. Zionist slogans such as “unpopulated land for a landless people” were no more than misleading propaganda, as the Jews were not homeless, nor was the land they sought unpopulated. The migration movement to Palestine started by the Zionists was the beginning of the chaos in the Middle East, as they drove people from their homes and land instead of cohabiting with the native population.

Had the Zionist leaders ensured that the Jews they brought to that land lived together in peace with the other peoples living in Palestine, this chaos would not have erupted. They failed to do that, however. Zionists totally disregarded the other religions and nations, and aimed to bring a wide region, described by them as the Promised Land, under their domination. They therefore resorted to the most ruthless methods. Moreover, Zionism’s ambitions are not just restricted only to the Middle East. Zionism is an irreligious and racist ideology that seeks world dominion and therefore represents a threat to world peace. The map which Zionist ideology drew up for the Jews consisted of a very large area.

Theodore Herzl said in his speech at the Zionist congress of 1897 in Basel that, “The northern frontier is to be the mountains facing Cappadocia (Asia Minor), the southern, the Suez Canal.”1 The founding father of the Israeli state, David Ben Gurion, defined the purpose of Zionism as follows:

The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill—From the Nile to the Euphrates. 2

As we have seen, if Zionism really only aimed to secure a homeland for the Jews it would be a justified movement. However, Zionism distanced itself from that lawful demand by evolving into a colonialist and exploitative project.

In the same way that Islam rejects anti-Semitism, a racist ideology, it also rejects Zionism, another racist ideology. It must not be forgotten, however, that not all Jews are Zionists. Indeed, there are many Jews who oppose the crimes against humanity of Zionism, fiercely criticise these, maintain that Israel must immediately withdraw from all the occupied territories, and wish Israel to be a free state in which all nations and identities can live together as equals. As Muslims rightfully oppose Zionism, therefore, they must bear these truths in mind and be aware that the criticisms are aimed at Zionism, not at Jews. For someone to criticise and hurt innocent Jews on account of the crimes of Zionism is a violation of justice. If he condemns the various Jewish communities in the world on account of the unjust occupation by and attacks of Zionism, he again contravenes justice and commits a grave error. If he perpetrates terrorist actions against those who support the aggression and occupations of Zionist ideology and aims these at Israeli civilians, he turns away entirely from the path of justice, and commits a grave sin by targeting innocent people.

It is revealed in the Qur’an that the Jews are a blessed people from the line of the Prophet Abraham (peace be upon him) and descended from the worthy prophets of God. There is no doubt that the Jews’ efforts to migrate and build a homeland for themselves wherever they desire in the world is a most lawful demand. For that reason, it is the Jews’ most natural right to wish to live in their own holy lands. Their ancestors lie buried in these lands, which are of the greatest significance to them. Indeed, God reveals in the Qur’an that He has settled the Jews in those lands they live in:

They say, ‘If we follow the guidance with you, we shall be forcibly uprooted from our land.’ Have We not established a safe haven for them to which produce of every kind is brought, provision direct from Us? But most of them do not know it. (Qur’an, 28:57)

As revealed in the verse, God has settled the Jews in these lands, and Jews have the right to live freely on Palestinian territory, as do Muslims and Christians. However, this objective, which was so far perfectly reasonable and justified, lost that justification with the total disregard of the Muslim Arab people living in Palestine. Zionism, which has turned into a destructive ideology based on violence, has led to people being forced out of their homes and land, which they had lived in for hundreds of years. Those who have refused to leave their lands have been ruthlessly slaughtered. That is what makes Zionism unlawful.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 Herzl, Theodore; In The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol. II, (New York: Herzl Press, 1960), p. 711.
2 http://www.al-awda.org/old/famous_quotes.htm
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 04:25 PM
The only reason is because of one of his ideas, "secret beyond matter" is kind of dodgy, but the rest of his material is fine. He produces a lot of material that is useful to muslims.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-19-2005, 07:55 PM
Because this has nothing to do with Secret beyond matter.

Have you ever read Nawawi's forty hadith, hash?

Do you know that nawawi had many problems with his Aqeedah? That he was influenced by the Ahsarees?

But we don't read his books of Aqeedah, we read his books on hadith, which was his speacialty.

You don't evaluate an argument based on who wrote it, but by its content.
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yoshiyahu
03-20-2005, 01:25 AM
Hold on there, Ansar. Before we get into this subject, we first need to define what Zionism is.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-20-2005, 03:01 AM
Good point.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-20-2005, 08:20 PM
Now that we've had the ignorent opinon, Zionism is a political belief, not a religious one. Real religious zionism is equal to the idea of Moshiach, that an annointed one shall arise, be undefeated, and reinstate the real land of Israel to it's former glory and so on.
format_quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Zionism
Politically: Zionism is a political movement among Jews (although supported by some non-Jews) which maintains that the Jewish people constitute a nation and are entitled to a national homeland. Formally founded in 1897, Zionism embraced a variety of opinions in its early years on where that homeland might be established. From 1917 it focused on the establishment of a Jewish national homeland or state in Palestine, the location of the ancient Kingdom of Israel. Since 1948, Zionism has been a movement to support the development and defence of the State of Israel, and to encourage Jews to settle there.
The Jews and Zion

The word "Zionist" is derived from the word "Zion" (Hebrew: ציון, Tziyyon), being one of the names of Jerusalem, as mentioned in the Bible. It was coined by an Austrian Jewish publicist Nathan Birnbaum in his journal Self Emancipation in 1890.

Zionism has always had both religious and secular aspects, reflecting the dual nature of Jewish identity, as both a religion (Judaism) and as a national or ethnic identity (Jewishness). Many religious Jews opposed Zionism, while some of the founders of the State of Israel were atheists.

Religious Jews believe that since the land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael) was given to the ancient Israelites by God, the right of the Jews to that land is permanent and inalienable. To generations of diaspora Jews, Zion has been a symbol of the Holy Land and of their return to it, as promised by God in Biblical prophecies. (See also Jerusalem, Jews and Judaism)

Despite this, many religious Jews were not enthusiastic about Zionism before the 1930s, and many religious organisations opposed it on the grounds that an attempt to re-establish Jewish rule in Israel by human agency was blasphemous, since (in their view) only the Messiah could accomplish this. The secular, socialist language used by many pioneer Zionists was contrary to the outlook of most religious Jewish communities. There was, however, a small but vocal group of religious Jews, led by the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Abraham Isaac Kook, that supported Zionism and cooperation with the secular majority in Palestine. Only the desperate circumstances of the 1930s and 1940s converted most (though not all) of these communities to Zionism.

Secular Jewish opinion was also ambivalent in its attitudes to Zionism. Many argued that Jews should join with other progressive forces in bringing about changes which would eradicate anti-Semitism and make it possible for Jews to live in safety in the various countries where they lived. Before the 1930s, many Jews believed that socialism offered a better strategy for improving the lot of European Jews. In the United States, most Jews embraced the liberalism of their adopted country. By some estimates, before World War II only 20–25 percent of Jews worldwide supported Zionism, with most others either opposed or lukewarm to it.

The chain of events between 1881 and 1945, however, beginning with waves of anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia and the Russian controlled areas of Poland, and culminating in the Holocaust, converted the great majority of surviving Jews to the belief that a Jewish homeland was an urgent necessity, particularly given the large population of disenfranchised Jewish refugees after World War II. Most also became convinced that Palestine was the only location that was both acceptable to all strands of Jewish thought and within the realms of practical possibility. This led to the great majority of Jews supporting the struggle between 1945 and 1948 to establish the State of Israel, though many did not condone violent tactics used by some Zionist groups.

Since 1948 most Jews have continued to identify as Zionists, in the sense that they support the State of Israel even if they do not choose to live there. This worldwide support has been of vital importance to Israel, both politically and financially. This has been particularly true since 1967, as the rise of Palestinian nationalism and the resulting political and military struggles have eroded sympathy for Israel among non-Jews, at least outside the United States. In recent years, many Jews have criticised the morality and expediency of Israel's continued control of the territories captured in 1967.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-20-2005, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the definition, SF2K. So do you think the author of these articles has made some errors or any innacurate statemnts?

It seems to me that his problem is that he hasn't definied zionism.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-20-2005, 09:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
Thanks for the definition, SF2K. So do you think the author of these articles has made some errors or any innacurate statemnts?
It reads both true and neutral as wiki is known for.
It seems to me that his problem is that he hasn't definied zionism.
Well, that is what too many people think Zionism is, as Hash pointed out. Especially in America, where Zionism is a christian evangelical movement for their own goals rather than simply supporting Jews and Israel. Yet everyone thinks it's some kind of Jewish thing anyway.
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yoshiyahu
03-21-2005, 06:59 AM
I still think you guys are going to far. Let's get down to a very simple, basic definition of Zionism. As simple as can possibly be.

I'll take a stab at it:

Movements of Jews aiming to promote the return of Jews to Israel

Agreed? Disagreed?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-21-2005, 09:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by yoshiyahu
Movements of Jews aiming to promote the return of Jews to Israel
I think the zionism that we're dealing with is more serious than that. I'm not sure if i would label it simply as a 'movement promoting the return of Jews'.
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yoshiyahu
03-21-2005, 09:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

Simple defination, dogs. Whats more brief and true than this?

A 'zionist' wants to rob and steal a whole county and oppress the people living them, commiting atrocites and persecuting them.

:w:
Hash,

You are looking at Zionism the same way a Southern Baptist looks at Islam.
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yoshiyahu
03-21-2005, 09:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-Haq
I think the zionism that we're dealing with is more serious than that. I'm not sure if i would label it simply as a 'movement promoting the return of Jews'.
Ansar, I believe you are mixing Zionism with Zionist groups. I would compare it to the actions of those who mix Islam with Islamic groups. Would it be fair of myself to label all of Islam based on certain Islamic groups?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-22-2005, 04:20 AM
Well, my judgement was based on SF2K's article which labelled zionism as a politcal movement rather than religious.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-22-2005, 04:28 AM
There are religious aspects (in religious [anti-]Zionism), but it is mostly a political movement.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-22-2005, 04:29 AM
Do you agree with this political movement?
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-22-2005, 10:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Do you agree with this political movement?
I don't entirely support zionism, there are more important things for Jews to do than to focus on moving to a single place when it is not yet our time. But I recognize Israel is a legitimate country and has earned it's place. Compare it to everywhere else:
America: Should we give our land back to the indians? A bit late for that, but a much more deserving scenario.
Mexico: Should they give their land back to the Incas? Also late, and also a much more deserving scenario.
America: Should we give our land to the Mexicans who are moving to America on masse illegally and demanding equal rights without aquiring citizenship?
India: Should they give their land to Muslims who moved there on masse and demanded their own country? Well, that happened.
Israel: Should this country that built itself up from nothing, given the land by the country/people that owned the land, and successfully defended itself against multi-nation wars, terrorist assaults by a population that willingly refused to get along, and racist sanctions, all to be recognized as a legitimate country by most of the world? I think so.

I don't completely agree with Zionism as it begun, and the state of Israel as it stands, but I don't at all agree with terrorist factions who care more about money and killing than peace.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-23-2005, 09:47 PM
Not really. Don't care much for any of those people.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-23-2005, 11:08 PM
It is indeed. And it can be very fruitful if it stays in this civil and respectful tone. :)
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yoshiyahu
03-24-2005, 02:41 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Well, my judgement was based on SF2K's article which labelled zionism as a politcal movement rather than religious.
Many Zionist groups would be labeled as solely political, but there are many that are soley Religous as well.
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yoshiyahu
03-24-2005, 02:47 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hash
Yoshimutu, how can a southen baptist say this about islam. Were is his proof.
My name is Yoshiyahu - is Yoshimutu the arabic spelling of my name?

The point I am making is that you are stereotyping all Zionists as murderers just as many Southern Baptists have stereotyped all Muslims as such. Both disregard the fact that there are many Muslims and Zionists who have no wish for bloodshed.

format_quote Originally Posted by Hash
Were is my proof? The thousands of dead men and women, young and old, sprewed across what was once their homes, the dozens of infants locked ip in detention centeres, the unborn babys slaughtered in the mothers womb, the graves of the palestians which were once their citys.
Jews can similarly point to the Mizrahi & Sephardic Jews who had the same done to them after the creation of Israel, thus causing their immigration to Israel.
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yoshiyahu
03-24-2005, 02:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Do you agree with this political movement?
I would say I am a centrist when it comes to Zionism, with some right-wing tendencies. I do support a permanent Jewish presence in Israel - especially for those Jews who fled to Israel after their lives where endangered in their home countries.

I don't support a 100% complete return of the Jewish people to Israel, because that would end in another exile. (One of the prophecies is that the Messiah will gather all Jews to Israel, and he can't do that if all the Jews are already there)
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yoshiyahu
03-24-2005, 02:54 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hash
I don't completely agree with Zionism as it begun, and the state of Israel as it stands, but I don't at all agree with terrorist factions who care more about money and killing than peace.
Hi Hash,

Which parts do you agree with?
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Sinner
03-24-2005, 09:55 AM
where Zionism is a christian evangelical movement for their own goals rather than simply supporting Jews and Israel.
I think the majority of Christians who support Zionism do so for no other reason then it is seen as a way of helping Jews and Israel. The return of Christ is not being forced in this manner, as some are trying to imply.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-24-2005, 12:59 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinner
I think the majority of Christians who support Zionism do so for no other reason then it is seen as a way of helping Jews and Israel. The return of Christ is not being forced in this manner, as some are trying to imply.
What you think is irrelevent. This is the reason that pastors have been pushing on their followers since the beginning of Israel's existance. Only in recent times (the last 3 or 4 years) have they begun to not emphisize apocolypse as the reason for their support of Israel.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-24-2005, 06:40 PM
No, SpaceFalcon is bringing up a valid point, that Christians who support Israel have ulterior motives.
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Uthman
03-24-2005, 07:19 PM



But why did SpaceFalcon say 'Sinner's' opinion is irrelevant?



:w:
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-26-2005, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Osman
But why did SpaceFalcon say 'Sinner's' opinion is irrelevant?

If I say "I think President Bush is black" Does that make it relavent? No, so it's irrelevent. What sinner brought forth was his opinion on evangelical christian motives toward Israel. His opinion is contrary to the fact.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-28-2005, 04:05 PM
Hash, maybe you should read what sinner said first.
format_quote Originally Posted by Sinner
I think the majority of Christians who support Zionism do so for no other reason then it is seen as a way of helping Jews and Israel. The return of Christ is not being forced in this manner, as some are trying to imply.
Sinner said Christians support Israel out of genuine concern for the Jews.
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yoshiyahu
03-28-2005, 10:34 PM
Some Christians have ulterior Motives. Some do not.

It's just like any other political issue.
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