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Andaraawus
01-13-2006, 07:53 PM
As-Salamu Alaykum

I was known for being staunch against the Salafi Movement, i was told that Salafis believe that Allah sits on his chair and things of this nature.

However after reading a few Salafi publications i found this to be a strawman arguement raised against the Salafi Organisation.

the following quotations are what i came across whilst reading such books as Kitaab ut Tawheed and Authentic Creed, in which i was taught NOT to touch these books.

I am just a researcher, reporting my findings and in all fairness, considering that i was against the very writers of these books and I may have falsly accused them without having the knowledge.

I therefore take back any statements i may have said and present the following:


in a footnote of chapter two of Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhabs Kitaabu Tawheed Allah’s transcendence was discussed wherein the translator says

‘it should not be misunderstood that Allah is contained within the heavens or the earth since he has described himself in the Quran as transcendent, Most High, above all, i.e. in 2:255, 20:5,25:59 and many places elsewhere in His book. Indeed the statement is another proof that Allah cannot be considered within the creation. (Detailed explanation can be seen in ‘fathul majeed Sharh Kitabut Tawheed)

(Kitaab ut Tawheed Chapter two, Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab, found in ‘The Concise Collection On Creed & Tawheed’ pg 38 Dar us Salam Publications)


I also had the opportunity to sit and read ‘The Authentic Creed’ by Abdul Aziz Bin Abdullah Bin Baz and in his chapter ‘Belief in Allah’ he documents the following

‘Belief in Allah also necessitates the belief in His Beautiful Names and Lofty Attributes that are clearly stated in the Quran and are authentically mentioned by His Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). We should believe in all His Attributes without changing them, completely ignoring them, twisting their meanings, or claiming that they resemble human attributes. Rather, we should believe in these Attributes and describe Allah in a manner that suits His Majesty and Grandeur, for none of His creatures resembles Him in any way.

The Quran says: "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer." (Soorah 42: 11)

"Invent not similitude’s for Allah. Truly, Allah knows and you know not." (Soorah 16:74)

Such is the creed of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jama'ah, the Companions of the Prophet and those who follow in their foot steps. Imam Abu Al-Hasan Al-Ash'ari mentioned this creed n his book 'Al-Maqalat 'an Ashabil-Hadithi wa Ahlis-Sunnah.
Other leading scholars have also mentioned this true creed in their works.

Imam A1-Awza said:
"Az-ZuhrI and Makhul were inquired about the Verses which talk about Allah’s Attributes and they replied, 'Leave them as they are." That is, do not interpret them.

Al-Walid bin Muslim said:
"Malik, Al-Awza'i, Al-Laith bin Sa'd, and Sufyan Ath-Thawri, may Allah have mercy upon them, were asked about the narration concerning Allah's Attributes, and they all said to believe in them all without interpreting their meanings.

Al-AwzA'i said:
"We used to say in the presence of At-TAbi'un, the successors of the Prophet's Companions, that Allah is over His Throne, and we believed in all the Prophetic traditions concerning Allah's Attributes.

When Rabi'ah bin Abu 'Abdur-Rahman, the teacher of Imam Malik, was asked about the Verse,

"Allah rose over His Throne." (Soorah 7:54)

He replied:
"Allah's rising over the Throne is not to be denied, to imagine the manner in which this is done is impossible, the Message is from Allah, the Prophet conveyed this Message, and we have to believe in it as it is."

When Imam Malik himself was inquired about the manner in which Allah rose over the Throne, he replied: "Allah's action of rising over the Throne is known, the manner in which this was done is not known, the belief in this matter is obligatory, and inquiring about this manner is an innovation in religion, or Bid'ah.

"Then he addressed the inquirer thus, "You are but an evil person." Then he asked people around him to send him out.
Umm Salamah, the Prophet's wife, is reported to have made the same statement.

Imam Abu 'Abdur-Rahman 'Abdullah bin Al-Mubarak said in his connection:
"We know that our Lord, Glorious is He, is over His Throne and over His heavens, distinct from His creation."

The religious scholars have written so much on this subject that it is impossible to quote them all in this treatise. Whoever is interested to find out more about this subject can refer to works written by scholars of Sunnah in this regard. These include, among other things, 'Abdullah bin Imam Ahmad's As-Sunnah, Muhammad bin Khuzaimah's At-Tawhid, Abul Qasimat-Tabari's As-Sunnah. One can also refer to Imam Ibn Taimiyyah's reply to the people of Hamat, Syria, in which he delineated the belief of Ahius-Sunnah. He also included in this reply the statements of Ahlus-Sunnah as well as logical and textual evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah supporting their position and exposing their opponents' opinions. He also dealt with the subject in his treatise known as Ar-Risalatu At-Tadmiriyyah in which he cited the belief of Ahlus-Sunnah along with logical and textual evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah, leaving no room for argument for the objective seekers of Truth.

Whoever adopts other than the position of Ahlus-Sunnah as to the issue of Allah's Names and Attributes will certainly contravene massive logical and textual evidence from the Quran and the Sunnah.

Ahlus-Sunnah have confirmed all the Names and Attributes that Allah confirmed for Himself either in the Quran or through the authentic traditions of the Prophet (PBUH), without changing them completely, twisting their meaning, ignoring them or likening them to those of His creatures. They have taken into account all possible proofs and have thus avoided falling into obvious contradictions. It is Allah's Plan to make the argument of those objective and sincere seekers of the Truth supreme:

"Nay, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, and it destroys it, and behold, falsehood is vanished." (Soorah21:18)

"And no question do they bring to you but We reveal to you the Truth and the best explanation (thereof)
."(Soorah 25:33)

Commenting on the Verse:
"Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and then He rose over the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty)." (Soorah 7:54)

The renowned exegete of the Quran, or Mufassir, Al-Hafiz Ibn KathIr said:
"People in this regard adopt far too many different opinions, which are not possible to cite here. However, we adopt in this regard the position of (the righteous predecessors)
, As-Salaf us-Salih, past and present, such as Malik, Al-Awza'i, Ath-Thawri, Al-Laith bin Sa'd, Ash-Shafi'i, Ahmad and Ishaq binRahwaih. They all believed in Allah's Attributes without twisting their meanings, ignoring them completely, or likening them to those of His creatures."

And whatever image comes to our minds about Allah should be rejected, for

"There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer." (Soorah 42:11)

Nu'aim Al-KhuzA'i, the teacher of ImAm A1-BukhAri, said: Whoever likens Allah to His creatures is a disbeliever, and whoever denies the Attributes that Allah ascribes to Himself is a disbeliever. It is impossible to liken Allah to any of His Creatures. Guided are those who confirm to Allah the Attributes, in a manner suiting His Majesty, mentioned in the clear Qur’aanic Verses and authentic Prophetic traditions and rejects all blemishes as to Allah's Attributes."


if anybody has any more references to add to this subject then please do so...and wasalams.
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Umm Yoosuf
01-13-2006, 08:03 PM
Kitaabu Tawheed by Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab is an excellent book. He is an excellent writer Masha Allah. People make false accusation of great shaykhs, that when you ask them have you given read their writings or ever attended their talks. The answer is almost always “No.” May Allah guide us all.
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Takumi
01-13-2006, 09:02 PM
I personally detest labelling. Salafi, sufi, or whatever they want to call themselves do not benefit us.

My teacher and I were discussing this at length and of course he told me that even you follow the minhaj of salaf, labelling yourself salafi won't do you any good.

For many people it just brings out I'm holier than thou attitude.

Okay, people, if you call youselves salafi, this post is not about you. It's about my opinion and since this is a forum, opinions are allowed, the worse thing that could happen to me is that this post be deleted since it may be off topic a bit. :)

Why do I find myself justifying my opinion with underlying worry that people will take my post personally? This is indeed sad. Sigh..
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Syed Hussain
01-13-2006, 09:13 PM
ASW
i thought salafis were people that follow just hadith and sunnah strictly. they are good people and i havent heard anything like this fro them. allah knows best
ASW
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Abu Omar
01-13-2006, 09:17 PM
Wa aleykum salaam wa rahmatullaah.

I was known for being staunch against the Salafi Movement, i was told that Salafis believe that Allah sits on his chair and things of this nature.
Allaah (swt) do sits on His Throne. We are told this in the Quran and the Sunnah. The belief Wahdat al-Wujood (that Allaah dwells withing His creation) is kufr, and that belief is what many Sufis believe in. Allaah, Ar-Rahmaan, sits on His Throne above the creation. Althought we may not understand how, but that's how it is.

Also there isn't really something like a "Salafi organization". There are differences between the different groups and people that ascribe themselves as Salafis.
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Andaraawus
01-13-2006, 09:57 PM
As-Salamu Alaykum

Allah is over the throne, to say He sits .....please cut out such ....edit yours and i will edit mine ....fair deal .....
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Mawaddah
01-13-2006, 10:03 PM
We Salafies do not beleive that Allah is 'sitting' on his throne, rather that Allah is 'above' his throne, Remember the Prophet peace be upon him saying "Wal 'arshu fawqal maa' wallahu fawqal 'arsh" and the Throne is above the water, and Allah is above the throne

Also, I want to say that those books you mentioned brother are excellent books and are recommended for beginners in Islaam

Wassalamu'alaikum
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Ansar Al-'Adl
01-13-2006, 11:11 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Abu Omar
Allaah (swt) do sits on His Throne.
Unfortunately, this is not correct. Allah swt is ascended over His Throne, He is NOT sitting on it. To say such would be to ascribe a human quality to God.

Please make use of the articles available in this section:
http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-divisions/

Please do not use this thread for sectarian debates. As Muslims, we follow Islam as it was revealed by Allah in the Qur'an, explained by the Prophet in the Sunnah and as it was understood by the early generations of Muslims.

:w:
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Andaraawus
01-14-2006, 02:41 AM
As-Salamu alaykum

Im sorry if you see this as a sectarian issue, howver i dont see it as such, this is where those who accuse salafis of such are wrong, the believe that they claim , aboout Allah being transcendent , above time and space , not within His creation , without need of sitting ...i find the salafis believe the same ....id rather call it talking past each other ....it all boils down to orthodox creed whether youre a 'salafi' or not.

on this issue the majority of Muslims agree, but they dont agree with each other despite their agreement , they choose to disagree on what they agree about ....and make false accusations on one another ...wasalams
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 04:29 AM
Will I go to hell fire if I publicly proclaim that I'm not salafi? :(
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 02:46 PM
:sl:

The problem arises if a clearly deviant person says Im muslim just like brother Takumi (just an example brother) I totally understand that the name calling can be abit hard to understand at times, but in certain circumstances it is needed. We are all muslims, trying our best to follow the pious salaf (predesccors)
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Snowflake
01-14-2006, 02:53 PM
:sl: (why is aslam alaikum on the left side of the icons) :?


*Takes a deep breath*

OK, unfortunately, I'm not well read about the topic going on here but I still have some ideas about how I interpret things. I may be wrong but if I am at least someone will point it out, so it'll better my knowledge anyway.

This ayah is from the Quran, therefore we cannot ignore it: "Allah rose over His Throne." (Soorah 7:54)

However, my interpretation is that although Allah is not a physical being and therefore does not need a physical throne in that sense, the place where Allah resides is described as the 'throne'. For example, when Allah subhana ta'ala gives orders to the angels, they assemble in a chosen spot, like a gathering place for such purposes. The place where Allah exudes his almighty power from is termed as the 'throne'. I know this doesn't sound great, but if you think of a light bulb, which is in one spot yet it's light is all over the room, is my way of explaining this. I feel that similarly Allah is 'together' where ever He chooses to be, yet his power, knowledge, mercy (all attributes) reach all over the universe.

*wonders what she's got herself into* :embarrass

Ok, I've found some ayahs from the Quran, and they explain what I am trying to say....


Al-Hadeed 57: 4 reads as:
It is He who created the heavens and the earth in six days and then He mounted the throne [of control]"

Hu'd 11: 7 reads as:
It was Him Who made the heavens and the earth in six days, and [at that time] His throne [of control] was on the waters


Qaaf 50: 16 reads as:
We created man and We [even] know the promptings of his mind. We are closer to him than his life vein

I think the last verse shows that indeed Allah's presence is everywhere. So my light bulb example wasn't too daft then. Isn't this what the sufi's believe, which so many people are against? I'm asking not telling.

*needs a break* :rollseyes

:w:
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 03:05 PM
:sl:

Allah is with us by His Knowledge. And the throne mentioned in the Quran does exsist, and we should not make these into metaphores like other deviant people have done. When Allah says "ArRahamnu 'Alal 'Arshis Stawa" (The Most Beneficiant istawa on the throne) we should adopt the stands of the salaf, when they were asked about this.

Istawa (raising) is well known. The "How-ness" is not known. Faith in it is Wajib (must). Questions concerning it is Bid'ah (innovation).
Kitaab Al-Imaan pp. 17-18
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm a sufi. I don't believe Allah's presence is everywhere. I believe that He is over His 'Arsy. However that is. It's not my business. Oh ya, I'm a salafi too [please tell me I got some jannah points for that! :)]

I don't dig wahdatul wujood or calling on Uwais al Qarni when I need help. Nor do I declare someone is ahlul bid'ah the moment they don't conform to my beliefs.

All I know is that, the most muttaqi of all men/women was the prophet of Allah. His way is Al Quran and His sunnah. all other men, Malik, Muhammad Idrees, Nu'man ibn Thabit, Ahmad ibn Hanbal were men and they made mistakes. don't forget Bin Baaz, Al Baani, Shinqitiy, Qardhawi, Adhami, Al Banna, Muhammad Qutb, Rumi, Jilani, Junaid al Baghdadi, Ibrahim ibn Adham: They were all mortals who died and are going to die and they made mistakes. They can't be more knowledgable than the prophet himself about Allah and this deen. They can't be more pious either. If they give that impression or their followers give me that impression, I'll be the first one to tell them: IttaqiLlah!

Al Quran was sent to guide us, the common man/woman. It shouldn't take 3000 pages just to explain one word. If Allah says He has hands, then, He has hands. How does His hands look like? It's none of my business, because He says, "wa lam yakul lahoo kufuwan ahad(un)" [and nothing is like Him]. If he sees, He sees. If He comes down, he comes down. All in His own unique way. If he's closer to us than our jugular vein, then He's closer.

Allah is not dumb. He doesn't use language to confuse us. True, to fully understand the Quran [sorry, there isn't a thing called 'partly understand', is there?] there's this whole shebang about grammar, rhetoric, poetry of the jahiliy, sarf [what do you call this in english?] that one has to master but only to deepend one's faith and make it easy for people like to follow Allah's orders.

You don't have label yourself salafi or sufi just to understand that.

They are among us who are as scholarly as Ibn Abbas and Ibn Masood but, people like me, who's just like the Bedouin who wants to lead a simple life, we want to understand Al Quran and read it like the prophet did. That's all.
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 03:55 PM
:sl:

I'm a sufi. I don't believe Allah's presence is everywhere. I believe that He is over His 'Arsy.
What makes a sufi? And if Allah isnt everywhere wouldnt you consider that restricting? Just something to think about.

They were all mortals who died and are going to die and they made mistakes.
The Prophet died aswell, and he was reprimand for certain actions. I am sure you know the story behind surah Abasa, and indeed the prophet was a mere mortal. Although we both know he was aided by Allah, I am only pointing out this to say they were all mortals.

They can't be more knowledgable than the prophet himself about Allah and this deen. They can't be more pious either. If they give that impression or their followers give me that impression, I'll be the first one to tell them: IttaqiLlah!
MashAllah, so you would agree that we should follow the Quran and Sunnah to most of our capabilities. :brother:

Al Quran was sent to guide us, the common man/woman. It shouldn't take 3000 pages just to explain one word. If Allah says He has hands, then, He has hands. How does His hands look like? It's none of my business, because He says, "wa lam yakul lahoo kufuwan ahad(un)" [and nothing is like Him]. If he sees, He sees. If He comes down, he comes down. All in His own unique way. If he's closer to us than our jugular vein, then He's closer.
Even during the time of the companions they used to ask eachother about the meanings of certain words that might have had more then one meaning. So these explanations are all preserved for us so we dont go astray. As for the hands it all falls under the category I just posted about.

We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; [Surah Al Imran Ayah 7]

Allah is not dumb. He doesn't use language to confuse us. True, to fully understand the Quran [sorry, there isn't a thing called 'partly understand', is there?] there's this whole shebang about grammar, rhetoric, poetry of the jahiliy, sarf [what do you call this in english?] that one has to master but only to deepend one's faith and make it easy for people like to follow Allah's orders.
Indeed Allah is not dumb, it is the people who are dumb. Throughout the ages people have misinterpreted verses some out of pure mistake may Allah forgive them, others did it knowingly trying to justify their ridiculuse claims may Allah curse them.

You don't have label yourself salafi or sufi just to understand that.
Again we are all muslims, but we follow the salaf.

Follow my Sunnah, and the sunnah of my successors!

They are among us who are as scholarly as Ibn Abbas and Ibn Masood but, people like me, who's just like the Bedouin who wants to lead a simple life, we want to understand Al Quran and read it like the prophet did. That's all.
I doubt that very much, yet Allah knows best. But in the light of the hadith it doesnt seem likely.


"The best of my Ummah is my generation, then those who follow them, then those who follow them."

Not to mention that they had the access to the Prophet first hand.

In short we should all strive in understanding the Quran and sunnah correctly may Allah help us.
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 04:08 PM
Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:



What makes a sufi? And if Allah isnt everywhere wouldnt you consider that restricting? Just something to think about.



In short we should all strive in understanding the Quran and sunnah correctly may Allah help us.

I don't know. I'm just following along. You know, so that I have the sense of belonging to the muslims.

I don't consider that restricting. If Allah is everywhere, then He's in the toilet bowl right now, or in the poop itself? God forbid.
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 04:10 PM
:sl:

lol i knew youd say that, yet Allah is everywhere with His knowledge He is aware of everything happening, and yes even in the toilet! Otherwise, you could escape Allah in the toilet God Forbid, does that make sense?
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 04:14 PM
Well, which one is it. Is Allah's Knowledge Everywhere or Allah itself is everywhere?
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 04:20 PM
:sl:

I never said Allah is everywhere in person :brother: I just reiterate what the salaf have always said, Allah is everywhere with His knowledge
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 04:24 PM
okay then... :)

that's exactly what i meant. Still Allah is above arsy, and He Knows Everthing.

wow...i never knew i was a salafi... :p
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Abu Zakariya
01-14-2006, 04:30 PM
Takumi - You say you are a sufi. What exactly makes you a sufi?
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 04:34 PM
Well. let me see.

A sufi: The one who loves Allah and His messenger.
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Umm Yoosuf
01-14-2006, 09:02 PM
:sl:

Originally Posted by Takumi
Well. let me see.
A sufi: The one who loves Allah and His messenger.
So you call your self a sufi only to seek purification and spirituality and not all the funny practises some sufi's practise such as celebrating the Prophet's (pbuh) bithday, singing poems that contain shirk, visiting graves to seek blessings from the dead, etc
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Far7an
01-14-2006, 09:12 PM
:sl:

The following post by Ansar pretty much sums it up.

http://www.islamicboard.com/44365-post2.html
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 09:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jannah
:sl:



So you call your self a sufi only to seek purification and spirituality
Aren't we all suppose to do this?

Originally Posted by Jannah
and not all the funny practises some sufi's practise such as celebrating the Prophet's (pbuh) bithday, singing poems that contain shirk, visiting graves to seek blessings from the dead, etc
no, i don't do that,

by the way, can you elaborate further on the word "etc", what else do you assume or know that some sufis do?

i'd like to know what other people seem to know about what I am.
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Umm Yoosuf
01-14-2006, 09:47 PM
Aren't we all suppose to do this?
Yes

no, i don't do that,
Alhamdulilaah

by the way, can you elaborate further on the word "etc", what else do you assume or know that some sufis do?
I don't assume my brother these are things which the sufi's are well known for doing.

Please refer to the following link

http://www.islamicboard.com/sects-di...m-details.html

i'd like to know what other people seem to know about what I am.
Well, i wasn't clear about what you are following thats the reason i wanted to know when you refer to yourself as a sufi, what do you really mean? Some peole call themsevfs sufi's only to seek purification and spirituality and do not associate partners with Allah. Other's attach themselves with the title sufi and practise other then Islam (i.e not upon Quran and Sunnah). May Allah guide as all.
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Takumi
01-14-2006, 09:54 PM
They give sufis a bad name those people, just like some salafis gave the salaf a bad name. Or on a broader sense, muslims give Islam a bad name. Thank god! If Allah allows people to become muslim by mere looking at muslims without his divine guidance, I don't think I'd be muslim.

Some muslims are just too caught up with labels.

I wonder what will I call myself next? Asha'arite's maybe? :)
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Khaldun
01-14-2006, 10:04 PM
:sl:

No dont do that, I am sure you would agree with;

And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion; the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this, that the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people; therefore keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and hold fast by Allah; He is your Guardian; how excellent the Guardian and how excellent the Helper!

And if people keep asking, simple say you follow the Quran and Sunnah and the pious Companions of the Prophet :arabic5: :okay:
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Abu Zakariya
01-14-2006, 10:24 PM
Exactly. Why call ourselves anything other than Muslims?
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Umm Yoosuf
01-14-2006, 10:30 PM
Originally Posted by Abu Zakariya
Exactly. Why call ourselves anything other than Muslims?
Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:

The problem arises if a clearly deviant person says Im muslim just like brother Takumi (just an example brother) I totally understand that the name calling can be abit hard to understand at times, but in certain circumstances it is needed. We are all muslims, trying our best to follow the pious salaf (predesccors)
What about in this case? :X
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Snowflake
01-14-2006, 11:29 PM
:sl:

May I ask what sufi's believe in, or how their practices are different, in this thread? I don't wish to start another thread about this, so I hope it's ok to ask here.

My other reason for asking this is, because I used to practice spritual healing 'roohani ilaaj' and was under the guidence of a mureed of khawaja shamsudin azeemi. My teacher has since passed away, so I'm feeling a bit lost, as she guided me in my meditation exercises and it was a wonderful experience, which I miss. I have always been spiritually inclined and alhumdullilah the healing benefited many people. I used to treat cancer patients by the will of Allah of course. I'm not sure but a few people told me that silsila azeemia should be avoided. I think it's something to do with sufism. If so then why is this? Can anyone shed some light on this matter please? Personally I didn't find anything wrong with using quranic ayahs for healing. Now I'm confused about it all... :confused:

:w:
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Takumi
01-15-2006, 04:48 AM
Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:

No dont do that, I am sure you would agree with;

And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion; the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this, that the Apostle may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people; therefore keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and hold fast by Allah; He is your Guardian; how excellent the Guardian and how excellent the Helper!

And if people keep asking, simple say you follow the Quran and Sunnah and the pious Companions of the Prophet :arabic5: :okay:
Now, isn't that a wonderful answer! Finally someone has the sense to strip off the labels of that some muslims love to associate themselves with. I guess, the thread is kinda misleading, may I suggest changing in to ISLAMIC PUBLICATIONS rather than Salafi Publications? :P
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-17-2006, 08:11 PM
aslaam

ahki (takumi) i agree wid wat u sayin bout bein labels as salafi or sum1 else, prophet (saw) or the companions never called themself any names other than muslims.
we should do the same inshA
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-17-2006, 08:12 PM
:sl:

sis here its a bit bout sufis

Tassawuf OR Sufism

The word “Sufism” was not known at the time of the Messenger or the Sahaabah (companions) or the Taabi’een (Companions of the Companions of the Prophet). It arose at the time when a group of ascetics who wore wool (“soof”) emerged, and this name was given to them. It was also said that the name was taken from the word “soofiya” (“sophia”) which means “wisdom” in Greek. The word is not derived from al-safa’ (“purity”) as some of them claim, because the adjective derived from safa’ is safaa’i, not soofi (sufi). The emergence of this new name and the group to whom it is applied exacerbated the divisions among Muslims.

The early Sufis differed from the later Sufis who spread bid’ah (innovation) to a greater extent and made shirk in both minor and major forms commonplace among the people, as well as the innovations against which the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned us when he said, “Beware of newly-invented things, for every newly-invented thing is an innovation and every innovation is a going-astray.” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, who said it is saheeh hasan).

The following is a comparison between the beliefs and rituals of Sufism and Islam which is based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

Sufism has numerous branches or tareeqahs, such as the Naqshbandiya, Qaadriya, Chhishtiya, Saharvardiya, Shaadhiliyyah, Rifaa’iyyah, Rehmaaniya, Rizviya, Subhaniya, Gausiya, Teejaaniyah, Sanusiyyah, Sahiliyyah etc. the followers of which all claim that their particular tareeqah is on the path of truth whilst the others are following falsehood. Islam forbids such sectarianism. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):“… and be not of al-mushrikoon (the disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, idolaters, etc), of those who split up their religion (i.e., who left the true Islamic monotheism), and became sects, [i.e., they invented new things in the religion (bid’ah) and followed their vain desires], each sect rejoicing in that which is with it.” [al-Room 30:31-32]

The Sufis worship others than Allaah, such as Prophets and “awliya’” [“saints”], living or dead. They say, “Yaa Jeelaani”, “Yaa Rifaa’i” [calling on their awliya’], or “O Messenger of Allaah, help and save” or “O Messenger of Allaah, our dependence is on you”, etc.But Allaah forbids us to call on anyone except Him in matters that are beyond the person's capabilities. If a person does this, Allaah will count him as a mushrik, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And invoke not, besides Allaah, any that will neither profit you, nor hurt you, but if (in case) you did so, you shall certainly be one of the zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).” [Yoonus 10:106]The Sufis believe that there are abdaal, aqtaab and awliya’ (kinds of “saints”) to whom Allaah has given the power to run the affairs of the universe. Allaah tells us about the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning): “Say [O Muhammad]: ‘…And who disposes the affairs?’ They will say. ‘Allaah.’…” [Yoonus 10:31]The mushrik Arabs knew more about Allaah than these Sufis!

The Sufis turn to other than Allaah when calamity strikes, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And if Allaah touches you with harm, none can remove it but He, and if He touches you with good, then He is Able to do all things.” [al-An’aam 6:17]

Some Sufis believe in wahdat al-wujood (unity of existence). They do not have the idea of a Creator and His creation, instead they say that everything is creation and everything is god.

The Sufis advocate extreme asceticism in this life and do not believe in taking the necessary means or in jihaad, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“But seek with that (wealth) which Allaah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, and forget not your portion of legal enjoyment in this world…” [al-Qasas 28:77]

“And make ready against them all that you can of power…” [al-Anfaal 8:60]

The Sufis refer the idea of ihsaan to their shaykhs and tell their followers to have a picture of their shaykh in mind when they remember Allaah and even when they are praying. Some of them even put a picture of their shaykh in front of them when they are praying. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Ihsaan is when you worship Allaah as if you can see Him, and although you cannot see Him, He can see you.” (Reported by Muslim).

The Sufis allow dancing, drums and musical instruments, and raising the voice when making dhikr, but Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The believers are only those who, when Allaah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts…” [al-Anfaal 8:2]

Moreover, you see some of them making dhikr by only pronouncing the Name of Allaah, saying, “Allaah, Allaah, Allaah.” This is bid’ah and has no meaning in Islam. They even go to the extreme of saying, “Ah, ah” or “Hu, Hu.” The Sunnah is for the Muslim to remember his Lord in words that have a true meaning for which he will be rewarded, such as saying Subhaan Allaah wa Alhamdulillah wa Laa ilaaha illa Allaah wa Allaahu akbar, and so on.

The Sufis recite love poems mentioning the names of women and boys in their dhikr gatherings, and they repeat words such as “love”, “passion”, “desire” and so on, as if they are in a gathering where people dance and drink wine and clap and shout. All of this has to do with the customs and acts of worship of the mushrikeen. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Their salaah (prayer) at the House (of Allaah, i.e., the Ka’bah at Makkah) was nothing but whistling and clapping of hands…”[al-Anfaal 8:35]

Some Sufis pierce themselves with rods of iron, saying, “O my grandfather!” So the shayaateen come to them and help them, because they are seeking the help of someone other than Allaah . Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And whosoever turns away (blinds himself) from the remembrance of the Most Beneficent (Allaah), We appoint for him a shaytaan (devil) to be a qareen (intimate companion) for him.” [al-Zukhruf 43:36]

The Sufis claim to have gnosis and knowledge of the unseen, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “Say: ‘None in the heavens and the earth knows the ghayb (unseen) except Allaah…’” [al-Naml 27:65]

The Sufis claim that Allaah created the world for the sake of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And I (Allaah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).” [al-Dhaariyaat 51:56]Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, addressed His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) with the words (interpretation of the meaning):

“And worship your Lord until there comes unto the certainty (i.e., death).” [al-Hijr 15:99]

The Sufis claim that they can see Allaah in this life, but the Qur’aan shows them to be liars. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):“[Moosa said:] ‘O my Lord! Show me (Yourself), that I may look upon You.’ Allaah said, ‘You cannot see Me…’” [al-A’raaf 7:143]

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and in a conscious state (as opposed to dreams). So are they better than the Sahaabah??

The Sufis claim that they take knowledge directly from Allaah, without the mediation of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). They say, “Haddathani qalbi ‘an Rabbi (My heart told me from my Lord).”

The Sufis celebrate Mawlid and hold gatherings for sending blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but they go against his teachings by raising their voices in dhikr and anaasheed (religious songs) and qaseedahs (poems) that contain blatant shirk. Did the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) celebrate his birthday? Did Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, ‘Uthman, ‘Ali, the four imaams or anyone else celebrate his birthday? Who knows more and is more correct in worship, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and the Salaf, or the Sufis?

The Sufis travel to visit graves and seek blessings from their occupants or to make tawaaf (ritual circumambulation) around them or to make sacrifices at these sites, all of which goes against the teachings of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Do not travel to visit any place but three mosques: al-Masjid al-Haraam [in Makkah], this mosque of mine [in Madeenah] and al-Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem].” (Agreed upon).

The Sufis are blindly loyal to their shaykhs, even when what they go against the words of Allaah and His Messenger. But Allaah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Do not put (yourselves) forward before Allaah and His Messenger…” [al-Hujuraat 49:1]

The Sufis use talismans, letters and numbers for making decisions and for making amulets and charms and so on.

The Sufis do not restrict themselves to the specific blessings on the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) that were narrated from him. They invented new formulas that involve seeking his blessings and other kinds of blatant shirk which are unacceptable to the one on whom they are sending blessings.

With regard to the question of the whether the Sufi shaykhs have some kind of contact, this is true, but their contact is with the shayaateen, not with Allaah, so they inspire one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception), as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies – shayaateen (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it…” [al-An’aam 6:112]

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“… And, certainly, the shayaateen (devils) do inspire their friends (from mankind)…” [al-An’aam 6:121]

“Shall I inform you (O people!) upon whom the shayaateen (devils) descend? They descend on every lying, sinful person.” [al-Shu’ara 221-222]

This is the contact that is real, not the contact that they falsely claim to have with Allaah. Exalted be Allaah far above that. (See Mu’jam al-Bida’, 346 –359).

When some of these Sufi shaykhs disappear suddenly from the sight of their followers, this is the result of their contact with the shayaateen, who may even carry them to a distant place and bring them back in the same day or night, to mislead their human followers.

So the important rule here is not to judge people by the extraordinary feats that they may do. We should judge them by how closely or otherwise they adhere to the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The true friends of Allaah (awliya’) are not necessarily known for performing astounding feats. On the contrary, they are the ones who worship Allaah in the manner that He has prescribed, and not by doing acts of bid’ah.

The true awliya’ or friends of Allaah are those whom our Lord has described in the hadeeth qudsi narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh (5/2384) from Abu Hurayrah, who said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah said, ‘Whoever shows enmity towards a friend (wali) of Mine, I declare war against him. My slave does not draw close to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties that I have enjoined on him, and My slave continues to draw close to Me with supererogatory (naafil) acts, so that I will love him. When I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it.’”

And Allaah is the Source of Strength and the Guide to the Straight Path.

:w:
Reply

Takumi
01-17-2006, 09:31 PM
Has anyone here been a member of these so called sufi groups or currently an active member?
Reply

afriend
01-17-2006, 09:33 PM
What is wrong with Sufism?
Reply

Snowflake
01-17-2006, 09:56 PM
aslam alaikum bro Iqbal,

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply to my post. I understand now, but I'm worried, as I used to practice spiritual healing and that did involve the use of amulets, talises and light & colour therapy. Sounds something like you described above...

I wasn't aware of sufism then and the word wasn't mentioned by my teacher. Plus I was only 17 at the time and unfortunately I didn't even know there were other sects, other than sunnis & shi'ites.

BTW, I don't believe in praying at graves of pious people by way of hoping Allah would grant our prayers. That is shirk.

I don't know if I was unknowingly involved in sufism or not. My involvement only went as far as healing.

wa'salam
Reply

iqbal_ibn_adam
01-17-2006, 09:57 PM
:salamext:

Akhi there is nofing wrong wid sufism, the only fing is they were not any1 called sufi in the time of prophet (saw) and there shouln't be any1 called now and that goes to every other group, like i sad b4 in the time of (saw) ppl were know as just muslims, now u got too many groups to name
Reply

iqbal_ibn_adam
01-17-2006, 10:08 PM
wasalaam alikum wrwb sis nadia
jazakallah khair for you commits, as u know Allah (swt) rewards and punishes ppl from their intentions, as u said ur intention was clean alhumdulillah, may Allah (swt) reward u 4it.

i have a few friends/brs who r sufis and we have alot of discussions about lot of fings but they always say our shaykh has said this or that and that's hw we end our conversation most of the time.
when u show some1 proofs and they turn away from it than pray to allah (swt) for their guidence.

ws
Reply

Snowflake
01-18-2006, 03:08 PM
:sl:

True bro, how did I forget that Allah sees our intention above all. But I worry as I do want to practice healing again. I've seen the benefits subhanAllah it really does work. Is it really haram to use amulets and talises etc?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
01-18-2006, 05:48 PM
:sl:
I think the thread has moved from its original topic into sectarian debate, and as such it should be closed. May I remind all members to check the articles listed in the Sectarian Issues section of the forum.

Concerning amulets, please read this answer:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503544376

:w:

:threadclo
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