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Tilmeez
01-18-2006, 12:48 PM
:sl:
Alhamduliallah, I am Muslim by birth. most of the times I could not figure out y am I muslim?? only coz my parants r??:?
As a student of Islam i know it it true religion but what brought U to Isalm. Ur thoughts, view and reasons will help others to choose Islam.

Tilmeez
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Takumi
01-18-2006, 01:31 PM
:sl:


  • Members can post there stories here as to why they have joined Islam, especially to the reverts or even the converts. We will be more than delighted to read your wonderful inspirational stories. (inshaAllah)!

:w:
reverts and converts are misnomers that should be avoided at all costs.

how long must we be labelled with those prefixes?

many sahabah were reverts and converts. i don't see you guys referring them as such. oh wait, because they're the companions. right.

muslims should do away with prefixes and start living as a single unit.

i guess we should be saying the revert hamza yusuf and the convert suhaib webb?
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- Qatada -
01-18-2006, 03:39 PM
:wasalamex


Alhamdulillah i was born a muslim too, but there are alot of christian or any non muslim born people aswell. Somehow, some christians or non muslims have left their parents faith because they felt their questions couldn't be answered, they left their faith because they never understood it - whereas once i started looking into islam, i had all the answers to whatever question came to my mind alhamdulillah.

For the sacrifice, i knew that we could get something better after all this hard work anyway, and that is jannah (paradise) insha Allaah.

Besides, our own beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said that “This religion is easy." so i'm prepared to give up this life thats only limited and full of hardships (whether you like it or not), for a life which is eternal/forever and more rewarding insha Allaah. :)



wa Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.
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Issa
01-19-2006, 05:18 AM
Originally Posted by Takumi
reverts and converts are misnomers that should be avoided at all costs.

how long must we be labelled with those prefixes?

many sahabah were reverts and converts. i don't see you guys referring them as such. oh wait, because they're the companions. right.

muslims should do away with prefixes and start living as a single unit.

i guess we should be saying the revert hamza yusuf and the convert suhaib webb?
Takumi, I have recently come to Islam ( i didn't use the other words, lol;D ) and i feel somewhat less when i have to use the word convert. I am new is usually what i prefer. I sure no one is using it with intentions of labeling us but i definately know what you are saying. Thanks bro.
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Takumi
01-19-2006, 05:44 AM
Originally Posted by Issa
Takumi, I have recently come to Islam ( i didn't use the other words, lol;D ) and i feel somewhat less when i have to use the word convert. I am new is usually what i prefer. I sure no one is using it with intentions of labeling us but i definately know what you are saying. Thanks bro.
As you travel more into muslim communities, attend conventions and maybe talk to many so called "reverts", you will find that you are not alone.

I have a staff with me who became muslim 20 years ago, and still when people find out that she's a "revert" the first question is usually, "do you know how to pray?"

Even for myself, people asked me, do you read Quran in Kurokawa? I'm a muslim aren't I?

Well, those are examples. To generalize that all muslims are like that seem unfair and unIslamic.

All so called reverts need to get out of their "i'm new to Islam" attitude and get their behind going. They are muslims, nuff said. The inner psyche of "i'm a revert" or being invited to tell about "my Journey towards Islam" in l local masajid is a degrading spectacle. We should be learning, not making speeches on how Allah guided us. Do you honestly believe that condition of the ummah is going to improve by our inspirational stories?

The nubuwwah [prophethood] of Muhammad is a MERCY for us and to save us from the hellfire. Those inspirational anecdotes won't cut it. At the end of the day, we're the one struggling to get our pronunciation of Allah's Speech correct so that we can read it like the prophet.

To fellow muslims who just came into Islam, get out of your cloud 9 of "inspirational anecdotal stories of guidance" and start learning.

Jannah is for us. Not for born muslims or reverts.

To fellow born muslims, don't treat us like circus animals where you pride us with your ceremonies asking us to tell our inspirational stories. You want inspirational stories?

Read the stories of Abu Bakr, Umar and gazillions of the companions. They, according to your standards were REVERTS.
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shanu
01-19-2006, 06:05 AM
Salam
I never chose islam
Islam chose me :D
I was born into this beautiful religion. In da beginning, no one was there to teach me islam that much. When i was 16, i went to this class and from then on my thirst for islam started and have embarked on the journey in learning islam. My aim is to learn islamic studies, inshallah. I learn a new thing everyday, and if today even my parents look up to me, i must thank ALLAH. Alhamdulilah!!
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Takumi
01-19-2006, 01:36 PM
Reverts call themselves reverts because of the societal dogma of some unscrupulous born muslims who have "I'm holier than thou" attitude.

We felt betrayed by our comrades in the deen. We came into Islam to escape racism, factions and discrimination due to nationality and level of knowledge in Islam.

What do we get? We struggle constantly to be part of the muslim world and as they call us reverts, converts and "new to islam". Not only that, our coming into Islam stories are being paraded as a spectacle. After that, everything goes kaput.

We see in Islam muslims praise their scholars more than the prophet Muhammad. We see in Islam, muslims going back to jahiliy where tribes precede common sense. It's only by the mercy of Allah, that we don't become muslims because we see how muslims act. We chose Islam because that's our fitrah. If we had chosen Islam because of muslims, surely our faith will dwindle as soon as we see how muslims practice their tribal and factioned Islam.

Sister in Islam, respectfully;

If people who become muslim after darkness half their lives insist on that title, it's their fault. Not yours. You can help by explaining to them that we are all muslims and they should carry that title because the sahabah never did that. You can also help by helping them to understand Islam better and make your born muslims understand that new muslims, reverts or converts are just muslims. They need help in Islam as any other born muslim who only have arabic names but far away from Allah.

I am disappointed at my fellow muslim brothers and sisters but I will take my own advice: Stop whining and live life.
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Halima
01-19-2006, 02:07 PM
We see in Islam muslims praise their scholars more than the prophet Muhammad. We see in Islam, muslims going back to jahiliy where tribes precede common sense. It's only by the mercy of Allah, that we don't become muslims because we see how muslims act. We chose Islam because that's our fitrah. If we had chosen Islam because of muslims, surely our faith will dwindle as soon as we see how muslims practice their tribal and factioned Islam.




Unfortunately, not everyone has seen it from that perspective. I myself was born muslim so really to tell you the truth I have never experienced something like this in my life. I would compare something like this to calling an African American the 'N' word. I have just realized this subhnallah. but why So if it is hurting me 10x then it must be hurting you guys like 20x! The way how new muslims were treated. I can surely speak for myself when I say that I definetly didn't look at it from that angel. To me new muslims are just like any muslim. They are fresh..lol but they are still muslims. Some of them do not have their whole life to learn about Islam just like some others that were already born muslims. To me people that have come such a long way to embrace Islam have been deeply blessed. We all have something to look foward to when we die. It just all depends on the good or bad deeds that we have accomplished in this life. New muslims, old muslims, white, asian, hispanic, it doesn't matter they are still muslims. I just don't understand because I still see muslims of higher authorites label other muslims as converts or reverts and that right there shows that they themselves have the corrupted knowledge. That is what I meant by saying something like this to a sheikh or imam in my other post. I do agree that was an ignorant statement. I didn't mean to say it like that but its a pity becuase these people are looked as leaders. They teach about Islam and half of what they teach is corrupted. One really has to think twice about learning Islam from someone that only has the limited knowledge of it. As for the stories, I don't speak for anyone else, but I see these stories as inspirations that are a major blessing. I don't know about you but I deeply consider something like this a double blessing. I was already born a muslim. I didn't have to strive or fight just to find the 'true religion'. This is something that is a big difference between the new muslims and others that were already born muslim. Something like this is jihad. Striving to seek knowedlge or striving to find the truest religion this is jihad. I still haven't said everything I wanted to say completely as I will do so later on. (insha'Allah)


Best regards,
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Quruxbadaan
01-19-2006, 08:24 PM
Asalaamu Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

dear brother Takuma,

i must say that i agree with the majority of what u have mentioned in ur post however i also must say that it was quite disapointing to read some of the low blows and indirect attacks u made on the sister
I personally dont understand why the huge argument here has sufaced on weather or not to call people who have recently embraced islam by the will of allah "reverts" and what not. You have mentioned that this is a situation that is plaguing our ummah dear brother obviously more important issues such as riba and racial discrimination create far greater calamities than this petty issue.
In my humble opinion, these terms revert and convert have a positive affect as well. when we analyze how they are used in most cases they are used not to label or put down any individual rather to make them feel less presure. And if that individual feels put down than they should simply state that this is what they are feeling and im positive that what is upsetting them soo much will stop. As for me i actually find inspiration in hearing the stories and experiences of the muslims who have embraced islam recently and it is a reminder to me that not everybody is blessed with the mercy of islam. This feeling of inspiration in turn can result in many born muslims becoming profound in islamic sutdies . [UNNECESSARY CONTENT REMOVED]
With peace
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-19-2006, 11:09 PM
:salamext: :brother: :sister:

wow can either of you tell me where are we going with is conversation pls?
Because i've just spent 15-20mins reading what br Takumi has said to sis Halima i see this whole conversation as waste of time.

:Alhumdill i was born as a muslim, took me long time to come back to Al-Islam.
I do not see a problem when a muslim being called 'reverts or converts' the reason for that is he/she are not mocked at with this name.rather muslims look upto them with high esteem.

Wallah-hi when a born muslim speaks/hears about a revert/convert they feel ashame of themself, why because some1 that was not muslim by birth and has chose Al-Islam as their way of life by their own free will, and they have much better understanding of deen than them.

so if i was u br Takumi i'll tell every1 your journey to Al-Islam rather than going into a conversation which is not going anywhere and we are :argue:ing for nothing

:salamext:
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Ibn Abi Ahmed
01-20-2006, 05:40 PM
:sl:

Im going to re-open this thread becuase i feel that Brother Takumi has been dealt with unjustly, and that this matter can be debated as long as the posters here debate respectfully.

Sister QuruxBadaan, im going to be straight forward with you, You have insulted this brother more then a few times and ive had to edit your posts becuase of your language. If you cannot debate with respect please dont post here at all. You arent setting a good example of what a "born muslim" is like with your insults and remarks and comments.

Honourable and dignified behaviour must be observed at all times, especially when replying to a post by a member of the opposite gender. 10% warning

Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beef are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting somebody) 15-25% warning
Sadly, youve failed to comply with that.

:w:
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-20-2006, 06:34 PM
:sl:

that's correct u FEEL that br has been insulted by sis who should behave better.
like others i'm getting a bit annoyed with br Takumi coz the way he is going on about this revert issue.

Till this day i have not come across any revert br/sis who said, what this br is complaining about. u tell what is wat is wrong with refering to certain br/sis as a revert? if he finks we r mocking at him dan i'll say he need to take a chill pill coz we ain't.
i can only speak for myself that when i refer to some br/sis as reverts wallah-hi i'm not mocking at them and Allah (swt) is my witness. and i'm sure nor does anybody else.

:w:
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Muezzin
01-20-2006, 06:38 PM
:sl:

All bro Takumi is saying is not to call someone who recently joined the Islamic faith a revert, but instead a Muslim. Sounds fair enough to me.

And on topic, I didn't choose Islam, but if I wasn't born and brought up Muslim, I do hope that I'd choose it. Only Allah knows for sure just what the heck I'd do in that hypothetical situation though.
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-20-2006, 07:25 PM
i know wat u saying and i dn't disagree wid u akhi, the problem is the way he is making it out that whoever call some1 revert is in----ing them, which is wrong if they did. and im sure no1 is doin this.
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Muhammad
01-20-2006, 08:43 PM
:sl:

After looking through a long and heated dialogue between certain members, I have deleted some posts that created ill-feelings between them and contained unecessary statements.

I think the main point to understand is that some people do not like being referred to as 'reverts' or 'converts', therefore we should all be aware of this when addressing them Insha'Allaah. Furthermore, I am sure that most people do not mean anything bad by this, and therefore we need to be aware of this also.

I have changed the name of this thread so that members may continue to discuss the former 'off-topic' discussion, and the fact that threads such as this can be used for the original topic.

Lastly, please remember to post respectfully to avoid deletion/editing of your posts, Jazakallahu Khayr.

:w:
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Takumi
01-20-2006, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_ibn_adam
:sl:

that's correct u FEEL that br has been insulted by sis who should behave better.
like others i'm getting a bit annoyed with br Takumi coz the way he is going on about this revert issue.

Till this day i have not come across any revert br/sis who said, what this br is complaining about. u tell what is wat is wrong with refering to certain br/sis as a revert? if he finks we r mocking at him dan i'll say he need to take a chill pill coz we ain't.
i can only speak for myself that when i refer to some br/sis as reverts wallah-hi i'm not mocking at them and Allah (swt) is my witness. and i'm sure nor does anybody else.

:w:
Thank you. I work with so called reverts all the time. I teach them Al Quran.

The vice president of my masjid is a revert and many of my students are reverts [i'm mainly using these terms to illustrate the situation, I don't condone labelling them that way].

In fact, one of my students just got a scholarship to further his studies in Al Azhar university, masha Allah. May Allah guide him. I shudder to think, after 5 years of working his behinds off memorizing Al Quran and getting his shaari'ah degree, he will still be called to speak only about his reversion and people will still use his reversion as an inspirational stories. And people will still think, WHEN DID HE COME TO ISLAM?

So, when I say, it's a misnomer, I really mean it because these brothers not only that they have been outcast by their family, their muslim brothers and sisters have to label them under the facade of honor and astonishment.

I wasn't offended at all if people call me revert. I believe it's a misnomer. Inappropriately designated, and I have forwarded my views on it and why I think that way. If you think otherwise, it's your choice and I won't force my opinion on you.

Isn't that what this forum is all about? :)
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-20-2006, 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by Takumi
Thank you. I work with so called reverts all the time. I teach them Al Quran.

The vice president of my masjid is a revert and many of my students are reverts [i'm mainly using these terms to illustrate the situation, I don't condone labelling them that way].

In fact, one of my students just got a scholarship to further his studies in Al Azhar university, masha Allah. May Allah guide him. I shudder to think, after 5 years of working his behinds off memorizing Al Quran and getting his shaari'ah degree, he will still be called to speak only about his reversion and people will still use his reversion as an inspirational stories. And people will still think, WHEN DID HE COME TO ISLAM?

So, when I say, it's a misnomer, I really mean it because these brothers not only that they have been outcast by their family, their muslim brothers and sisters have to label them under the facade of honor and astonishment.

I wasn't offended at all if people call me revert. I believe it's a misnomer. Inappropriately designated, and I have forwarded my views on it and why I think that way. If you think otherwise, it's your choice and I won't force my opinion on you.

Isn't that what this forum is all about? :)



:sl:


point taken ahki
congratulaions on sending one of your students to Azhar university, may Allah (swt) reward u for ur efforts.Ameen

If u dnt mind (that is) me asking do to teach tafseer of Al-Quran?
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sapphire
01-20-2006, 09:33 PM
subhanallah...i just welcomed a new muslim to this forum and i didnt use the term revert...instead i said muslim...can see where this is comming from..allhamduliah i was born muslim and so was everyone else.......
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Snowflake
01-20-2006, 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Takumi
reverts and converts are misnomers that should be avoided at all costs.

how long must we be labelled with those prefixes?

many sahabah were reverts and converts. i don't see you guys referring them as such. oh wait, because they're the companions. right.

muslims should do away with prefixes and start living as a single unit.

i guess we should be saying the revert hamza yusuf and the convert suhaib webb?

Excellent bro! Well said. That is what I've always thought too.
Reply

Takumi
01-20-2006, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by iqbal_ibn_adam
:sl:


point taken ahki
congratulaions on sending one of your students to Azhar university, may Allah (swt) reward u for ur efforts.Ameen

If u dnt mind (that is) me asking do to teach tafseer of Al-Quran?
Tafseer al Quran is beyond my scope. All tafaseer has been completed [At Tabari, Ibn Kather, Mujaahid, Ibn Abbas]. All we need to do is to read them.

To do that, you need a qualified teacher, which, sadly, I'm not.

YOu might want to check your local masjid for a good Arabic teacher. The one who teaches you how to understand rather than to speak.

:happy:
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iqbal_ibn_adam
01-20-2006, 10:24 PM
Originally Posted by Takumi
Tafseer al Quran is beyond my scope. All tafaseer has been completed [At Tabari, Ibn Kather, Mujaahid, Ibn Abbas]. All we need to do is to read them.

To do that, you need a qualified teacher, which, sadly, I'm not.

YOu might want to check your local masjid for a good Arabic teacher. The one who teaches you how to understand rather than to speak.

:happy:

:sl:

Akhi what i ment is do teach them the tafseers that are already completed not u doin a new1.

your last paragraph do i take it as insult or wat? m trying to move on from our previous conversation but i dnt think u want to?do u?


:w:
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Snowflake
01-21-2006, 01:03 AM
Originally Posted by Halima
but I see these stories as inspirations that are a major blessing. I don't know about you but I deeply consider something like this a double blessing. I was already born a muslim. I didn't have to strive or fight just to find the 'true religion'. This is something that is a big difference between the new muslims and others that were already born muslim. Something like this is jihad. Striving to seek knowedlge or striving to find the truest religion this is jihad. I still haven't said everything I wanted to say completely as I will do so later on. (insha'Allah)
Best regards,
:sl:

I agree. Whenever I read a story about how a brother or sister came to Islam, it makes me want to better myself as a muslimah too. I think, wow, here's this sis or bro, who once didn't have a care for Islam, yet now they are striving to learn and live it, so what is wrong with me? I should be making more of an effort too.

I feel joy knowing that Islam has yet again proved itself to be the 'truth'. It's beauty and light has enlightened the heart of another human being. Another muslim in the ummah. SubhanAllah, I hope the brothers and sisters don't mind telling their stories, but hearing them brings great happiness to my heart.

:w:
Reply

Takumi
01-21-2006, 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by iqbal_ibn_adam
:sl:

Akhi what i ment is do teach them the tafseers that are already completed not u doin a new1.

your last paragraph do i take it as insult or wat? m trying to move on from our previous conversation but i dnt think u want to?do u?


:w:
No,no..no insults whatsoever. I misunderstood your question. :)

No, I don't teach them tafseer. I teach them tajweed. I have nothing against you or anyone here. :)

I thought you wanted to learn. If you want to learn Arabic, find someone who will teach you how to understand Al Quran not conversational, that's what I meant.

Thank you for asking that question, before "taking" it as insult. :p

Peace.
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