Need some help

[Mezier]

I was discussing with someone (athiest) about religion, over the net. We got into gay marriages and how they should or shouldnt be legalized. And soon after that he said this to me...

"Fact 1 - Your religion teaches "La ilaha ila Allah". (There is no god but Allah)
Fact 2 - Allah might translate to "God" but it doesn't mean the same thing. Allah has characteristics distinct and different from the Westerner "God" to the degree that followers of Allah claim all Westerners are "infidels".
Fact 3 - Infidel - n : a person who does not acknowledge your God.
Fact 4 - Immoral - adj : characterized by wickedness
Fact 5 - Jews don't believe in your God. You'll have to take my word on this one. Ask one if you get the chance.
Fact 6 - Your religion teaches "La ilaha ila huwa". (There is none that deserves worship but Allah)
Therefore your religion teaches that since the Jews/Christians worship another God that they are disobeying Allah, therefor they all wicked, which means immoral and thus will go to hell."

I havent replied back yet, but I would like to know what your thoughts are concercing his logic?

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

Fact 2 - Allah might translate to "God" but it doesn't mean the same thing.

Allah translates to "The God" Al meaning the and illah meaning god. Also note that the name Allah existed before Islam did. It is a known fact that every language has one or more terms that are used in reference to God and sometimes to lesser deities. This is not the case with Allah. Allah is the personal name of the One true God. Nothing else can be called Allah. The term has no plural or gender. This shows its uniqueness when compared with the word god which can be made plural, gods, or feminine, goddess. It is interesting to notice that Allah is the personal name of God in Aramaic, the language of Jesus and a sister language of Arabic. Source

Allah has characteristics distinct and different from the Westerner "God" to the degree that followers of Allah claim all Westerners are "infidels".

God is One, there is no "westerner" God. As for westerners themselves, they may be infidel or ignorant. Most likely they have all heard of Islam, so therefore they are ignorant about it.

Fact 5 - Jews don't believe in your God. You'll have to take my word on this one. Ask one if you get the chance.

Jews may not call God Allah, but the same God that has sent down to them the torah, is the same God that has sent us the Quran.

Fact 6 - Your religion teaches "La ilaha ila huwa". (There is none that deserves worship but Allah)

That means that none has the right to be worshipped but He. Has nothing to do with deserving or not. Allah has right over us, since He is superiority, therefore we have no other choice in choosing another god, there is no other god except Allah.

Therefore your religion teaches that since the Jews/Christians worship another God that they are disobeying Allah, therefor they all wicked, which means immoral and thus will go to hell."

First of all, the statements he provided have in no way accordance as proof for this specific statement. If he wants proof to contradict his own statement, it says in the Quran:


004.136 يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا آمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي نَزَّلَ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ وَالْكِتَابِ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ مِنْ قَبْلُ وَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِاللَّهِ وَمَلائِكَتِهِ وَكُتُبِهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الآخِرِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلالا بَعِيدًا
004.136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

005.048 وَأَنْزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ فَاحْكُمْ بَيْنَهُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ وَلا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنْكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَكِنْ لِيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَا آتَاكُمْ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ
005.048 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

It is not that they may not believe in Allah, but they do not believe in the true scripture that Allah sent down to us: The Quran.

In accodance to Islam, any disbelievers of Allah, the prophets, the Quran and the Angels, will be sent to hell:

057.019 وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الصِّدِّيقُونَ وَالشُّهَدَاءُ عِنْدَ رَبِّهِمْ لَهُمْ أَجْرُهُمْ وَنُورُهُمْ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُولَئِكَ أَصْحَابُ الْجَحِيمِ
057.019 And those who believe in Allah and His messengers- they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify), in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs,- they are the Companions of Hell-Fire.

"Fact 1 - Your religion teaches "La ilaha ila Allah". (There is no god but Allah)

did he forget the second half? wa Ashadu ana muhammadan rasul Allah (and i testify that Muhammed is his messenger)

Inshallah, if i have not helped, someone more knowledgable than I can :)

barak Allah feek

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

[Mezier]

Wow, more than I expected actually. And it was of great help sister. I really appreciate what you have done. Jazakallah!
:sl:

[*charisma*]

Assalamu Alaikum

wa iyak ekhi, although inshallah maybe some other members can be more in depth with their answers, so inshallah with their answers also provided, you can come up with an excellent reply.

Also make sure when speaking to nonmuslims you prepare and provide proof inshallah and if they provide an ayah for example double check it to make sure there have not been any changes made to it. Just some helpful tips.

fi aman Allah
w'salaam

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[Fee]

:sl:
i just wanted to ask one question.
I don't understand:
are you saying that every christian and jew will go to hell because they don't believe in the qu'ran?
Or
Because they don't admit that Islam is the one and only true religion?
I have alot of christian friends and they all respect and believe in the qu'ran,does that mean they're going to hell even if they are very religious?

Just a question thank you to whoever answers

[mansio]

That is a good question by Fee, whether Christians and Jews will go to hell if they do not believe in the Quran.
What does the Quran say about that ?

[Sister Khadija]

:sl:
i just wanted to ask one question.
I don't understand:
are you saying that every christian and jew will go to hell because they don't believe in the qu'ran?
Or
Because they don't admit that Islam is the one and only true religion?
I have alot of christian friends and they all respect and believe in the qu'ran,does that mean they're going to hell even if they are very religious?

Just a question thank you to whoever answers

:sl:

First of all, Neither Christians nor Jews (in general) believe in oneness of Allah. One time, A Christian man entered the mosque while the messenger of Allah (pbuh) was reciting from the Qur'aan:

They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their priests to be their lords besides Allâh (Qur'aan 9:31)

So he said: "We did not worship our priests." The Messenger said: "Yes, you do. Don't they make the Halal (allowed matters) Haram (disallowed matters) and the Haram Halal, then you follow them?" He answered yes. The Messenger said: "That is worshiping them."

So by obeying their priests in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allâh, they made them partners of Allâh.

But suppose that one of them does not do so, he believes in the oneness of Allah but does not believe with his messenger or he refuse to be Muslims. In this case he will be Kafir (disbeliever) too since he refused to believe with what Allah has sent. The following verses talks about that:

Truly, the religion with Allâh is Islâm. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except, out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, then surely, Allâh is Swift in calling to account. (Qur'aan 3:19)

[1] Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Pagans, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

[2] A Messenger (Muhammad) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages.

[3] Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.

[4] And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

[5] And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform Prayers and give Charity: and that is the right religion.

[6] Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and pagans will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

[7] Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (pbuh)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

[8] Their reward with their Lord is Eden Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.

(Qur'ân 98)

You also can use many Hadiths that insure 100% that every Christian or Jew who hear about Muhammad (pbuh) then does not follow him, he will go to the hell-fire. However this person will not stay in the hell-fire forever. The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said:

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).

As for the verse (2:63), it was revealed when Salman al-Farisi (r.a) asked the prophet (pbuh) about his friends who died before they meet Muhammad (pbuh)... So, the meaning is that Jews had to follow the Torah until the Injil was revealed. After that, Jews had to follow the Injil until the Quran was revealed. After that, they had to follow the Quran as in (3:85).

[85] And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will NEVER be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers. [86] How shall Allâh guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? And Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers). [87] They are those whose recompense is that on them (rests) the Curse of Allâh, of the angels, and of all mankind. [88] They will abide therein (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened, nor will it be delayed or postponed (for a while). (Qur’an 3:85-88)

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

That is a good question by Fee, whether Christians and Jews will go to hell if they do not believe in the Quran.
What does the Quran say about that ?

Discussed here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/124268-post11.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...aven-hell.html
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...AskAboutIslamE
http://www.islamicboard.com/akhira-h...tml#post129310

See also my new article:
http://www.islamicboard.com/139684-post49.html