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PrIM3
01-20-2006, 10:53 PM
Peace be with you all

hello I felt lead to start my own thread based on what we Christians believe. after doing researching with this book I have "Friendship with God". which gives me scriptures and ask some questions to.. the book is for the YOUNG Christians.. I have this all jotted down in my journal..

1. God has Chosen us:
John 15:16- You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit= fruit that will last.

2.God wants to spend time with us:
Revelation 3:20- HereI am! I stand at the door and knock. if anyone hears my voice and opens the door. I will come in and eat with him, he with me.

3.God will never leave us:
Hebrew 13:5- Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, never will I leave you; never will I forsake you ( I love this verse )

to keep it small I will wait till people respond to these and then I will post the other stuff I have written down.

thanks for listening.

God bless
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Tasneem
01-20-2006, 11:14 PM
Peace

O.k keep on going inshallah

SaLaMz
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Abdul Fattah
01-20-2006, 11:16 PM
So If I understand correctly the idea is that others add the islamic point of view regarding these matters next to these verses? Sort of comparitive study, right?

So here it goes.
1. With "us" is meant christians right? Well this is were islam is difrent. We believe Muhammad was a prophet for all of mankind, not for a limited group. And we also blieve that every soul is born a muslim, some are just raised difrently. But then there's also to consider: Allah guides who he wants and lets go astray who he wants.
2. I don't know if its the same thing but reminds me of a verse in the qur’an. I don’t know where it is and don’t find it immediately but it was something in the lines of: why would you prefer the benefits of this world when Allah prefers those of the hereafter for you.
“Spending time” is a lil’ bit loose for interpretation; and quite frankly I think it’s a lil’ bit condescendant to say it with those words, because it makes it sound like we are peers. But I think it’s better addressed in point 3
3. According to Islam, Allah is always closer to you then your jugular vein. I think that paints a clear picture :)
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PrIM3
01-20-2006, 11:58 PM
Hello steven before I go on I would like to state that we believe Jesus was/is also for the Gentiles to..

1.He gave us his son.
John 3:16- [B]for God so loved the WORLD that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[/B]

2.He gave us a book.
Matthew 4:4-Jesus answered, "it is written: man does not live on bread alone. but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

3.He gave us his spirit.
John 16:13-14- but when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
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Kent Nielsen
01-27-2006, 10:38 PM
Hi For the record I agree with what PrIM 13 has posted so far.
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PrIM3
01-29-2006, 07:53 PM
I must repent
Act 3:19- Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord.

The presence test
Romans 8:15-16- for you did not recieve a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you recieved the spirit of sonship, and by him we cry, Abba, Father. "The spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.
The evidence Test
1John2:3-6- We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says," I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. but if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in Him: whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
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mahdisoldier19
01-30-2006, 03:48 AM
Salam Alaikam

Well christian friends i have a question that perhaps you guys could figure out for me when i had this debate with a guy i asked the guy btw you guys should read up on Yusuf estes

said jesus is God? and the man replied yes, then i said God is god and the man replied yes , and i said wait whos God then? and the man replied on no you dont understand God came down in jesus body. So i said so your saying God Came down in his body when he was crucified as well? and he said well he kinda left his body. Then i said why would Jesus who is supposly Father and son at the same time be tempted by the devil? hes the son of God and God at the same time(i dont know how christians can get that thinking but they managed). So the man says well its kinda uhhhh( i stress the Uhhh because thats all he was saying) and i said ok ok wait So Jesus went to hell to fight and kill the devil? and he said yes, So then i said your telling me God has to fight his creation to destroy it? and he says well ummm ya know in the bible it says if you dont believe in jesus as the savior your going to hell. I said well ok jesus is the savior( he kinda is if you think about it he cuts the dajjals head). Then i said why would God Let himself get crucified or sweat blood? and then he suddenly shifted the topic to the bible. So i let him do that seeing what he can come up with. So i looked one chapter on john one on king james. And i said to him have you ever seen the quran? he said no , i replied we dont have different people speaking we have only the most perfect being showing us a religion that is perfect. and the man says well its just a book. i said its the Book of Allah. and i said if you burn all the bibles you will have no holybook. If you burn all the quran, you will still have the quran because the quran is memorized by many muslim brothers and sisters. So he went back to God concept which i asked if God came down in jesus body why would he be tempted again? and he said well our body is sinful its weak, and i asked your saying God is weak? the almight creator who created every single thing is weak???. He goes well uhhh its a hard concept. I said no its the concept that you have no clue what your saying. So yeah i just gave him so many points and from that day he never came in discussing religion or showing off to customers that christianity is the greatest. Though brothers and sisters please do not think i initiated the conversation. He first exclaimed it to me i kept my mouth quiet, till he started saying a few things about islam that i disliked. Thats where i got him to be embarresed. Sorry if i wasnt suppose to speak islam because he kept saying so much about islam being evil and programmed i couldnt take it but to keep him quiet. And i did! he spent years in church i spent 1 day in a Masjit. So that was interesting with him, hopefully you guys will clear the misunderstanding for me Inshallah

King James version of the bible i think its that version i remember christianity has a whole different kind of versions of the bible before i start this

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

Check that site out if you guys can get a chance and refute and debate any of that if you can also

Songs of Solomon 5: 16
His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

Altogether Lovely translates in hebrew to guess what FELLAS

MUHAMMADIM why IM its a respect in ancient hebrew such as The name of God to be Elohim IM!
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PrIM3
01-30-2006, 04:17 AM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Salam Alaikam

Well christian friends i have a question that perhaps you guys could figure out for me when i had this debate with a guy i asked the guy btw you guys should read up on Yusuf estes

said jesus is God? and the man replied yes, then i said God is god and the man replied yes , and i said wait whos God then? and the man replied on no you dont understand God came down in jesus body. So i said so your saying God Came down in his body when he was crucified as well? and he said well he kinda left his body. Then i said why would Jesus who is supposly Father and son at the same time be tempted by the devil? hes the son of God and God at the same time(i dont know how christians can get that thinking but they managed). So the man says well its kinda uhhhh( i stress the Uhhh because thats all he was saying) and i said ok ok wait So Jesus went to hell to fight and kill the devil? and he said yes, So then i said your telling me God has to fight his creation to destroy it? and he says well ummm ya know in the bible it says if you dont believe in jesus as the savior your going to hell. I said well ok jesus is the savior( he kinda is if you think about it he cuts the dajjals head). Then i said why would God Let himself get crucified or sweat blood? and then he suddenly shifted the topic to the bible. So i let him do that seeing what he can come up with. So i looked one chapter on john one on king james. And i said to him have you ever seen the quran? he said no , i replied we dont have different people speaking we have only the most perfect being showing us a religion that is perfect. and the man says well its just a book. i said its the Book of Allah. and i said if you burn all the bibles you will have no holybook. If you burn all the quran, you will still have the quran because the quran is memorized by many muslim brothers and sisters. So he went back to God concept which i asked if God came down in jesus body why would he be tempted again? and he said well our body is sinful its weak, and i asked your saying God is weak? the almight creator who created every single thing is weak???. He goes well uhhh its a hard concept. I said no its the concept that you have no clue what your saying. So yeah i just gave him so many points and from that day he never came in discussing religion or showing off to customers that christianity is the greatest. Though brothers and sisters please do not think i initiated the conversation. He first exclaimed it to me i kept my mouth quiet, till he started saying a few things about islam that i disliked. Thats where i got him to be embarresed. Sorry if i wasnt suppose to speak islam because he kept saying so much about islam being evil and programmed i couldnt take it but to keep him quiet. And i did! he spent years in church i spent 1 day in a Masjit. So that was interesting with him, hopefully you guys will clear the misunderstanding for me Inshallah

King James version of the bible i think its that version i remember christianity has a whole different kind of versions of the bible before i start this

http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM

Check that site out if you guys can get a chance and refute and debate any of that if you can also

Songs of Solomon 5: 16
His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

Altogether Lovely translates in hebrew to guess what FELLAS

MUHAMMADIM why IM its a respect in ancient hebrew such as The name of God to be Elohim IM!
can.t find a clapping smilies.. but I am glad I see someone from islam posting something.. I am not here to try to get you to revert or anything if that is what you think. please I will be glad to hear some more of that.
thank you again mahdisoldier19

may I post something about the Battle with God and satan?
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Tilmeez
01-30-2006, 04:52 AM
Originally Posted by PrIM3
Hello steven before I go on I would like to state that we believe Jesus was/is also for the Gentiles to..

1.He gave us his son.
John 3:16- [B]for God so loved the WORLD that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[/B]

2.He gave us a book.
Matthew 4:4-Jesus answered, "it is written: man does not live on bread alone. but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

3.He gave us his spirit.
John 16:13-14- but when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
1. We have a comolete chapter (surah) in Quran on this chapter that says Allah(God) is alone. Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. He begetteth not nor was begotten(And none is like Him)
2. Latest, complete and unamended book is Quran (All previous books have been canceled with the arrival of Quran).
3. Islam teaches us to invite people of the book to the things that are common in Islam and their religiion.
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PrIM3
01-30-2006, 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by Tilmeez
1. We have a comolete chapter (surah) in Quran on this chapter that says Allah(God) is alone. Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. He begetteth not nor was begotten(And none is like Him)
.
I would like to read it

and I thank you agian
Reply

mahdisoldier19
01-30-2006, 10:28 PM
Salam Peace and blessings upon you

Heh guys i understand your beliefs , i respect your beliefs, but I think my main goal is to get you guys reverted back on the righteous path :P

Nice to seem Respectful christians around
Reply

Khaldun
01-30-2006, 10:36 PM
:sl:

1.He gave us his son?

And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son.

Certainly you have made an abominable assertion

The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,

That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God.

And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.


[Surah Maryam Verse 88-92]

And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. [Surah Maidah Verse 116-117]

2.He gave us a book.

Surely We have revealed to you the Book with the truth for the sake of men; so whoever follows the right way, it is for his own soul and whoever errs, he errs only to its detriment; and you are not a custodian over them.
[Surah Zumar Verse 41]

3.He gave us his spirit?

Say: The Holy spirit has revealed it (the Quran) from your Lord with the truth, that it may establish those who believe and as a guidance and good news for those who submit. [Surah Nahl Verse 102]
Reply

PrIM3
01-30-2006, 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by Khaldun
:sl:

1.He gave us his son?

And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son.

Certainly you have made an abominable assertion

The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,

That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God.

And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son.




And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.

I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.

2.He gave us a book.

Surely We have revealed to you the Book with the truth for the sake of men; so whoever follows the right way, it is for his own soul and whoever errs, he errs only to its detriment; and you are not a custodian over them.


3.He gave us his spirit?

Say: The Holy spirit has revealed it (the Quran) from your Lord with the truth, that it may establish those who believe and as a guidance and good news for those who submit.

hello hi, thanks for your feedback Khaldun

as a person who wants to be respectful about the your others peoples beliefs. I really don't think Jesus is the son of God as most people think of Him as. God never had relations with women.

Christians named Joseph who was a levite from cyprus, Barnabas, which means Son of Ecouragement. (Acts 4:36)

King Lemuel called his son "son of my womb" and "son of my vows" in Proverbs 31:2

may I ask you what son of the road means?

8.41 . And know that whatever ye take as spoils of war , lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah , and for the messenger and for the kinsmen ( who hath need ) and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer ; if ye believe in Allah and that which We revealed unto Our slave on the Day of Discrimination , the day when the two armies met . And Allah is Able to do all things.
4.36 . And serve Allah . Ascribe no thing as partner unto Him . ( Show ) kindness unto parents , and unto near kindred , and orphans , and the needy , and into the neighbor who is of kin ( unto you ) and the neighbor who is not of kin and the fellow traveller and the wayfarer and ( the slaves ) whom your right hands possess . Lo! Allah loveth not such as are proud and boastful ,
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PrIM3
01-30-2006, 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
Salam Alaikam


and he said yes, So then i said your telling me God has to fight his creation to destroy it?
Hello Mahdisoldier Peace

about this question.
may I ask you what you get out of this verse?
According to Genesis 3:15

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."
Reply

Khaldun
01-30-2006, 11:48 PM
:sl:
as a person who wants to be respectful about the your others peoples beliefs. I really don't think Jesus is the son of God as most people think of Him as. God never had relations with women.
It would defy logic.
may I ask you what son of the road means?
Arabic term, which loosly means, traveller.
Reply

Pinkie
01-31-2006, 12:18 AM
Greetings!

My question goes for any Christian on this forum. Since they believe Isa(alayhis salam) came to save the people (during his time) what happened to people like Musa (alayhis salam), Ibrahim (alayhis salam), and Nuh (alayhis salam)? What about people who believed they were prophets? I asked another Christian these questions and he said they already believed in Christ or something like that. I was wondering if there is any place in the Bible where it says this or can anyone give me an explanation?

¬°Muchas gracias! :)
Reply

mahdisoldier19
01-31-2006, 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by PrIM3
Hello Mahdisoldier Peace

about this question.
may I ask you what you get out of this verse?
According to Genesis 3:15

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."

That Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible, Alot of christians refute that, i dont know why after i prove it they still manage
Reply

PrIM3
02-01-2006, 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by Pinkie
Greetings!

My question goes for any Christian on this forum. Since they believe Isa(alayhis salam) came to save the people (during his time) what happened to people like Musa (alayhis salam), Ibrahim (alayhis salam), and Nuh (alayhis salam)? What about people who believed they were prophets? I asked another Christian these questions and he said they already believed in Christ or something like that. I was wondering if there is any place in the Bible where it says this or can anyone give me an explanation?

¡Muchas gracias! :)
hello Pinkie thank you for you question. I assume you are still wanting an answer to your question.

they were saved by Faith. after studying some through the Bible and through some books.
When God spoke to Noah he had to have faith that there was really a flood coming. then when Noah preached to the people about what was going to happen in the near future the people had the freedom of rejecting him or not.
then moses had faith that God was really speaking to him and he wasn't going insane or anything.
Abraham had faith when God told him to take his son isaac ( I understand it is ishmeal in the Qur'An but in our Bible it is Isaac) to the place where God told him to go with faith not knowing what would happen. and even before this Abraham had faith that God would provide him with a son from sarah.

so they were all justified by faith.
Abraham
Noah- people did not believe noah and look what happened to them.
David- when fighting the Giant had faith that God would help him through the fight.
elijah- had faith when confronting those people who worshiped a false god by challenging them to make a wood offering and to see which god would burn the offering first which would proove that- that god was the Lord God Almighty.
moses- people had to have faith following moses out of egypt.

and now with Christ- we all have to have faith that He is our redeemer and intercessor
Reply

PrIM3
02-01-2006, 04:12 AM
Originally Posted by mahdisoldier19
That Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible, Alot of christians refute that, i dont know why after i prove it they still manage
Hello Mahdisoldier and peace

but that isn't what the verse means though. the verse means that God will send someone to crush the enemies head from a women only not a man.

with regards.

we are all brothers and sisters.
Reply

mahdisoldier19
02-01-2006, 04:48 AM
Salam Alaikam

Ah i see the point of view your coming from the peaceful approach. I respect that i think Muslims and christians should live together in harmony you keep your beliefs and i keep mine. What really affected me from you was the fact that you dont believe jesus to be the son of God and Unify God as God. Meaning no father or son. In that respect, you have my total respect and like in teh Quran numerously states christians will be judged according to the gospel. But those who say God has fathered a son eh they dont get the same oppurtunities as righteous people like yourself. Im honored to meet a christian like you with beliefs of the original christianity

May there be Supreme Peace and blessings upon you my friend
Reply

czgibson
02-01-2006, 04:12 PM
Greetings,

It's good to see some knowledgable Christians on the forum, and it's been interesting observing the dialogue that's been going on here.

I've got a question regarding a certain aspect of Christian belief, and I think this is the right place to ask it. It seems to be a contradiction in the Gospel of John, and it's confused me for ages. Here it is:


After this, Jesus and his disciples went out into the Judean countryside, where he spent some time with them, and baptized. (John 3:22)
And right over the page:


The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. (John 4:1-2)
The question is, did Jesus baptise or not?

Is anyone able to provide an explanation for these verses?

Peace
Reply

PrIM3
02-01-2006, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by czgibson
Greetings,

It's good to see some knowledgable Christians on the forum, and it's been interesting observing the dialogue that's been going on here.

I've got a question regarding a certain aspect of Christian belief, and I think this is the right place to ask it. It seems to be a contradiction in the Gospel of John, and it's confused me for ages. Here it is:




And right over the page:




The question is, did Jesus baptise or not?

Is anyone able to provide an explanation for these verses?

Peace
hello and Hi czgibson

The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. (John 4:1-2)
I will try to tell you my explanation of these two verses.
when it states as Jesus baptising people it could a collective group.. Jesus baptised them.
for instance at school where you have a fun raiser and your trying to get enough money at the end of it they state it was the ms. so and so who collected the most money. now even though it was her class who collected the money and not her. they still state it as ms. so and so as a collective noun.

I am going to have this checked for grammers but theres that.
Reply

Pinkie
02-02-2006, 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by PrIM3
hello Pinkie thank you for you question. I assume you are still wanting an answer to your question.

they were saved by Faith. after studying some through the Bible and through some books.
When God spoke to Noah he had to have faith that there was really a flood coming. then when Noah preached to the people about what was going to happen in the near future the people had the freedom of rejecting him or not.
then moses had faith that God was really speaking to him and he wasn't going insane or anything.
Abraham had faith when God told him to take his son isaac ( I understand it is ishmeal in the Qur'An but in our Bible it is Isaac) to the place where God told him to go with faith not knowing what would happen. and even before this Abraham had faith that God would provide him with a son from sarah.

so they were all justified by faith.
Abraham
Noah- people did not believe noah and look what happened to them.
David- when fighting the Giant had faith that God would help him through the fight.
elijah- had faith when confronting those people who worshiped a false god by challenging them to make a wood offering and to see which god would burn the offering first which would proove that- that god was the Lord God Almighty.
moses- people had to have faith following moses out of egypt.

and now with Christ- we all have to have faith that He is our redeemer and intercessor
Thank you for answering my question!
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