RELIGION and POLITCS.....

[james]

selam.....:sl: ........religion and politics........should they be mixed together?

the bible says that we are no part of this world and i believe you cannot vote for man and worship god at the same time......I also believe that religion and politics should be kept seperate..........but of course perhaps i dont know enough regarding these issues

some countries for example Pakistan and Turkey are not Islamic states and are more about progressive Islam and letting all citizens practice their own beliefs ..freedom of religion....

do you have any views on this bros and sisters...without JUMPING ON MYHEAD PLEASE............i know it's a delicate subject for some and i'm not saying i'm right about this........just voicing my current views on the subject......

Peace be upon all of my brothers and ssisters wherever you may reside....

[imaad_udeen]

I think religion and politics should be seperated as much as possible, or else the religion in power could find it easy to stifle or silence minority religions.

[james]

Amen............

[AllyOmally]

Errr one problem guys Islam is political it wouldnt be Islam if it wasnt!!! Every decsion, law etc etc must be made Islamically thats why In every Islamic war we never attacked 1st!!! Why did I choose war.. it was the obvious choice!!

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[james]

hang on BROTHER ALLY........!.......(okay.let go now..lol)

This world cannot become peaceful in its current state if all states were Islamically controlled ..we would just have mass war......what happenede to freedom of choice?????.......we must respect each persons beliefs and let them decide without forcing Islamic states upon them....That is called democracy....look at Pakistan and Turkey.democratic states with moderate Islamic control..(very moderate)...but it works very well......

and dont start me on Iran...thats another kettle of fish..(what a strange expression)........

peace and love to all people and religions.......or beliefs......the heart is what Allah looks at ..not.....are you jewish or christian!!!!!!!....

[AllyOmally]

There would be no states if the everyone was a Musilm it would just be like the religion of Humanity!!

I dont understand!!! Is it the fact you enjoy a quick PINT of beer still now and againon the weekend James??? Turkey/Pakistan are nothing but criminal Islamic states if ever I saw one!! For a start They are more like UnIslamic states and I feel there should be NO Islamic states!!!! I realy realy do... well except one and that would be Saudi and saudi should belong to all Muslim and not just a selected few!! But then typical of a bunch of my fellow Muslims they would ruin it in a week!

Why is that why do we as Muslim shoot ourselves in the foot cant we educate the people around us???

How come all the Jews can set up a great network of Tv channels and they run 65% of the west news media... And they can stand on the political stage (not talking of Isreal) in any goverment and be counted...

And we cant!!! Begs belief!!

salaams Ali

[_salam_]

I would just like to provide a few quotes about this issue from the book "The Fundamentals of Tawheed" by Bilal Philips.

"Consequently, the most important aspect of Tawheed is that of Tawheed al- 'Ebaadah, maintianing the unity of Allaah's worship."

a little further in the chapter we read,

"Worship ('Ebaadah) in the Islamic view, includes more than jsut fasting, paying zakaah, Hajj and animal sacrifices. It includes emotions like love, trust, and fear, all of which have degrees which should only be directed to God. Allaah has addressed these emotions and warned against excesses in them as follows;

'There are amoung men those who take (for worship) others besides Allaah as equals to Him. They love them as they should only love Allaah. But those who believe have a much greater love of Allaah.' 2:165
'Will you not fight people who broke their oaths, plotted to expel the messenger and were the first to (attack) you? Do you fear them? Allaah has more right to be feared if you are truly believers.' 9:13
'Put your trust in Allaah if you are truly believers.' 5:23

Since the term 'Ebaadah means total obedience and Allaah is considered the ultimate Lawgiver, the implementation of secular legal systems not based on divine law (Sharee'ah) is an act of disbelief in the divine law and belief in the correctness of such systems, such a belief constitutes a form of worshipping other than Allaah (Shirk). Allaah said in the Qur'aan:

'Those who do not rule by what Allaah has revealed are disbelievers (Kaafiroon).' 5:44

Hence, a significant part of "Tawheed al- 'Ebaadah involves the implementation of Sharee'ah, especially in lands where Muslims form the majority of the population. Divine law has to be re-introduced in the many so-called Muslim countries where governments now rule according to imported capitalist or communist constitutions, and Islamic law is either totally extinct or relegated to a few areas of minor importance. Likewise, Muslim countries, where Islamic law is on the books but secular laws are in force, have also to be brought in line with the Sharee'ah as it pertains to all aspects of life. The acceptance of non-Islamic rule in place of Sharee'ah in muslim lands is Shirk and an act of Kufr. Those in a position to change it must do so, while those unable to do so must speak out against the rule of Kufr and call for the implementation of Sharee'ah. If even this becomes impossible, un-Islamic government must be sincerely hated and despised for the pleasure of God and the upholding of Tawheed."

[james]

hhmmmm......Ally o mally...........

did you say i have the odd beer at the weekend??????..i thinks u did,,

well yes..i have a beer in my fridge..but its been there for three months and i havent touched it.dont want to.....and the sad part is..whenever guests come and i try to get rid of it...no one wants to take it...so i am about to throw it away............

Turkey.unislamic.state.......well.....more like a secular country trying to be european.....but we can change the laws not the people.that takes a few generations.......i could go on..but i have lessons........peace.:brother:

[- Qatada -]

Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.


Muslims do believe in a leader who will be a ruler over the muslims, the whole islamic state has to live under his leadership (as long as he is sticking to the shariah' law; from the qur'an and sunnah.)

The word Khalifah refers to the successor or representative of Prophet Muhammad (sal Allaahu alayhi waSalam) or to one of his successors. This person acts as the head of state for the Muslim Ummah. Another title for the Khalifah (English Caliph) is Amir Al-Mu'mineen which means 'the leaders of the believers'.

The immediate Caliphs were Abu Bakr As-Siddiq, Umar Ibn Al-Khattab, Uthman Ibn 'Affan, and 'Ali Ibn Abi Talib. These were given the nickname of Al-Khulafa'Ar-Rashidun (The Guided Caliphs).

Another use for this word is used for humanity in general. The human being is considered the Khalifah (representative) of Allah on earth according to Allah.

He will be the only ruler over the whole muslim nation, and his duty is to support the muslim nation by enjoining what is good and forbidding what is evil within the muslim nation (obviously this is every other muslims duty too.)


Non muslims are allowed to live within that nation, but it cannot be controlled by them.

They have two options:

- To become muslims.

- Pay jizyah (a small tax, because they will be protected under the islamic law, and the same way muslims pay zakaah, the non-muslims will have to pay jizyah.)

The non-muslims dont have to fight either, its the muslim mujahideen (muslim fighters) duty to fight if any disbelievers come into the land, and the people who pay jizyah are protected, unless they stop paying jizyah on purpose - then they will be fought against too, the same way muslims would be punished if they never payed zakah on purpose (without a valid excuse.)


However for the non muslims in that country - they would have to stay within the limits eg. they may not prayer the 5 prayers which are compulsary for a muslim, but they would be obliged to follow the laws such as no alcohol etc. - this is because laws such as these affect the people as a whole; eg. if a person had consumed alcohol (even if it was a non muslim within that country) - they may be in a state of intoxication and they could take any action without control eg. even something as horrendous as rape.. this would affect the society as a whole, this could lead gaps within the laws and make the society as a whole corrupt.


So you have to realise that muslims do live under a political system which is ruled by the shariah' law (derived from the qur'an and sunnah.) Even non muslims are allowed to live there, but they cannot transgress the limits, if they do - then the punishments/penalties apply to them too.



wa Allaahu a'lam. (and Allaah Almighty knows best.)



wa Salaam o 'alykum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

[AllyOmally]

Gotta say thanks for that!!

However like I have said on the forums.... quote all you like and you should because we all need to learn... But I strongly feel you gotta balance it up with whats real!!! And also combine the quotes with the fact that we are just human we have faults and we all sin!!

The thing is how many Islamic countries can u name with Muslim elected leaders etc etc and how many even come close to what you and I who live in Non-Muslim countries would consider a Muslim Country... eg YOU can buy alcohol in all of the Muslim countries today... Women still walk around without proper dress in those countries and beaten by the cops for not doing so etc But what about Stoning women who commit adultery DOES THIS WASH WITH YOU!!

Of course I am not saying, because I don't know, that that specific law has been given to us by Allah... What I am saying we already have Muslim countries who have fantastic local communities and wonderfull societies and it must be wonderfull to be surrounded by your brothers and sisters... (I feel something like that about Londoners) and there is no nudity on the TV (or is there) etc etc

HOWEVER why are they so badly run... When they are run by Muslim... Why are they so slow in advancements when we used to be the leaders in world science... Why are they so bad on the world stage... Or dealing with other countries... Why cant they explain themselves or be transparant like Islam... Why are 90% of Muslim countries divided within!!! What happened to the education systems in these countries?? Why cant the people in power actually enforce Shaaria Law on them selves 1st instead of Dictating it to others... and openly act like kafirs... Where is the compassion of ISLAM when they actually enforce the law??? (HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS)

I say better there was no Islamic countries because they shread the laws of Islam in the World public eyes... They cant even explain them to people who ask...

Shaaria law is the law of every Muslim!!!!!! AND not the country they live in!!!

Salaams

[_salam_]

Gotta say thanks for that!!

However like I have said on the forums.... quote all you like and you should because we all need to learn... But I strongly feel you gotta balance it up with whats real!!!

All I know is that Sharee'ah law was in order under an Islamic state (a true one that is, not these countries people call "Islamic" today) for centuries and with it the Muslims thrived, they were the leaders of the world in all aspects during that time.

The thing is many Islamic countries can u name with Muslim elected leaders etc etc and how many even come close to what you and I who live in Non-Muslim countries would consider a Muslim Country

None of them. That's my point, it doesn't work when you try and "balance" Sharee'ah law with secular law, that's why we need a state run entirely by Sharee'ah. History it self proves that it can be done and that under this type of rule people and society seem to be at harmony with each other and be very successful.

But what about Stoning women who commit adultery DOES THIS WASH WITH YOU!!

If this is what Allah and/or His Messenger (saws) commanded then yes.

HOWEVER why are they so badly run... When they are run by Muslim... Why are they so slow in advancements when we used to be the leaders in world science... Why are they so bad on the world stage... Or dealing with other countries... Why cant they explain themselves or be transparant like Islam... Why are 90% of Muslim countries divided within!!! What happened to the education systems in these countries?? Why cant the people in power actually enforce Shaaria Law on them selves 1st instead of Dictating it to others... and openly act like kafirs... Where is the compassion of ISLAM when they actually enforce the law??? (HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS)

This is a really simple answer, because these people and the majority of the Muslims today are not following the way of life given to them by Allah.

Shaaria law is the law of every Muslim!!!!!! AND not the country they live in!!!

Don't you understand that part of Sharee'ah law is that the Muslims set up a true Islamic state with a Khalifah.

[james]

well i have to say that progressive Islam is the only way..otherwise we will just continue having wars and our children will die in these wars....Also we must stop the oppression of Muslim women in some countries......what happened to Islam and humanity!!!!!!!.....we dont live two thousand years ago.....we live in 2005...........Humans are important not countires under strict control of religious fanatics..........we should ALL live in peace and Ilsam is a very peaceful religion or was until these muslim states and fanatics started the rest of the world thinking how bad Islam is.......

welcome to 2005.now lets stop oppression of women and try and make Islam peaceful again..........religion or your beliefs should be about caring...love...compassion......aid.......NOT WAR.BOMBS..ISLAMIC RULE.....

of course each to their own..but we must open our eyes to the fact that we all live on one planet and we are just moving people further away from us....not the way we want........James

[_salam_]

well i have to say that progressive Islam is the only way..otherwise we will just continue having wars and our children will die in these wars....Also we must stop the oppression of Muslim women in some countries......what happened to Islam and humanity!!!!!!!.....we dont live two thousand years ago.....we live in 2005...........Humans are important not countires under strict control of religious fanatics..........we should ALL live in peace and Ilsam is a very peaceful religion or was until these muslim states and fanatics started the rest of the world thinking how bad Islam is.......

welcome to 2005.now lets stop oppression of women and try and make Islam peaceful again..........religion or your beliefs should be about caring...love...compassion......aid.......NOT WAR.BOMBS..ISLAMIC RULE.....

of course each to their own..but we must open our eyes to the fact that we all live on one planet and we are just moving people further away from us....not the way we want........James

What did I say in my post about starting wars with people....I never even made that suggestion, so I don't know why you're going on about that? Oh, and on a side note just for clarification, the number of people entering into Islam has increased since 9/11 and people are coming to Islam faster now than ever before.