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03-19-2005, 04:30 PM
Israeli Textbooks Incite Racism, Hatred



CAIRO, March 11, 2005 (IslamOnline.net & News Agencies) – Israel’s education curricula aim at psychologically mobilizing youngsters for war, inciting “hostility, grudge and hatred” against Arabs and tarnishing the Arab image, according to a new study.

“Israeli school textbooks aim at implanting the desire for war in the souls of students as a sole means for defending what they believe legitimate and historic rights with the objective of mobilizing the Israeli public opinion for a constant state of war,” Safa Abdel Aal, an education expert, was quoted by Reuters as saying Thursday, March 10.

In her book “Racist Education in Israeli Curricula”, Abdel Aal said “Israel has been mobilizing youngsters to be ready to give sacrifices on war as did the first Zionist generations to regain what they believe their legitimate rights”.

With such an attitude, she maintains, Israel aims at getting students to “give their souls for liberating the lands of the Jewish predecessors and for establishing the Kingdom of Israel”.

Israel remains one of the most militarized societies in the world, according to The Christian Science Monitor.

Young Israelis are educated about the army as early as the 11th grade, with five days of training that includes learning how to shoot.


A year later, school students receive counseling from a young soldier about draft procedures.

Serving in the Israeli army, which comprises 190.000 elements and 450.000 reservists, is mandatory.

Graduating from high schools, Israeli males serve three years while females serve a year less.


Hatred & Enmity

In her book, the education expert analyzes the content of a group of Israeli history and geography textbooks in the primary education.

“These textbooks hamper attempts to achieve peace or to establish an independent Palestinian state,” Abdel Aal said.

“The main tasks of the Israeli education system are meant to implanting the seeds of hatred and fear from the other in the Israeli youngsters and tarnishing the image of Arabs in the eyes of the current and future Israeli generations,” she stressed.

She further noted that the gravity of such an Israeli racist education system lies in the fact that the Israeli children, since their prime years, are being fed with hatred, grudge and superiority against Arabs, in particular, and others, in general.


Anti-Arab Sentences

The Israeli textbooks also focus on attaching mean and derogatory descriptions to Arabs, the education expert told Reuters.

“The Arabs are given mean descriptions in the Israeli textbooks such as thugs and thieves,” she said, citing two examples of anti-Arab sentences in the Israeli textbooks to prove her case.

One such clause speak about the “sacrifices!” made by early Jewish generations, “despite a harsh climate and an environment full of the Arab embezzlers, thieves and terrorists”.

A second refers to the city of Taparia as a place which is suffering from insecurity and fear from the Arab hurters.

The Israeli textbooks also include anti-Arab sentences such as “Arab thieves”, “Arabs are -------s thirsty for the Jewish bloods”, and “underdeveloped Arabs”.

Negotiations are under way to translate the book into other languages in order to reveal the Israeli racist stances on the Arab peoples.

“Negotiations are under way with a European publishing house to translate the book to let the sympathizers with Israel know how the Israelis are implanting enmity and hatred against the Arabs and non-Jewish,” Mohamed Rashad, the book publisher, told Reuters.


“Racist Ideologies”

Similar asessments were echoed by Hamed Ammar, an Egyptian education expert.
“The racist education is dominating the Israeli mentality and there seems a keenness to consolidate such a racist tendency in the coming generations,” said Ammar in his introduction to Abdel Aal’s book.

He described the Israeli education system as extremely “dangerous” because of its influences on enhancing such racist ideologies.

Ammar dismissed that Israel would give up its “racist” ideologies, especially in terms of relations with the Arab world.

“Thus, it is proven that the Israeli claims on being willing to establish a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East are groundless.”

Israel has been complaining that the Arab education curricula are inciting hatred against Jews.

However, respected US and European research institutes found Palestinian textbooks free from any incitement to hatred, The International Herald Tribune reported December 18, 2004.

Disregarding the Israeli racist stances on the Arabs, US President George W. Bush signed October 17, 2004, into law a controversial bill on combating the so-called global anti-Semitism.

The law commits the US State Department to docomeent acts of physical violence against Jews, their property, cemeteries and places of worship abroad, as well as local governments’ responses to them and take note of instances of anti-Jewish propaganda and governments’ readiness to promote unbiased school curricula.

------------------------------


God's curse be upon Israel and its supporters, ameen
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-20-2005, 09:32 PM
I'm sure the palestinian text books are just as neutral for their side.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-21-2005, 02:57 AM
I don't know how many textbooks they have.

But the problem is that whenever there is a conflict, both sides just get into a cycle of hate.
Reply

yoshiyahu
03-21-2005, 07:19 AM
While I don't doubt that it's possible, I never accept a source that claims something says something but doesn't bother to quote it.
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SpaceFalcon2001
03-21-2005, 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Hash
Space falcon, i dont think the Palestinas have time to read their textbooks, they have to keep looking over their shoulder at them dogs with the assult rifles.
If only they had learned to read before they strapped bombs to their chest...
Reply

Genius
03-22-2005, 05:47 PM
Manners bro, I've heard stories of jews being human shields to save arabs in Palestine and saving muslims on 9/11.
Reply

Far7an
03-22-2005, 05:51 PM
Ya Akhee hash, calm down
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Uthman
03-22-2005, 06:23 PM
:sl:

Ameen. But you gotta compliment Hash on being so strong and having so much love for his religion.

But before we wage war on SpaceFalcon, I'm sure that he is decent enough to admit his mistake and apologise.

:)

:w:
Reply

Far7an
03-22-2005, 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
:sl:

Ameen. But you gotta compliment Hash on being so strong and having so much love for his religion.

But before we wage war on SpaceFalcon, I'm sure that he is decent enough to admit his mistake and apologise.

:)

:w:
Im seeing a sensible side to OSMAN :omg:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-22-2005, 08:46 PM
Hash, you keep demonstrating that you can't discuss anything without getting emotional.

STOP.
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Uthman
03-22-2005, 09:20 PM
Originally Posted by farhan247
Im seeing a sensible side to OSMAN :omg:
I like to play the mediator. Believe me, you should have seen my posts when I first signed up here! They were about two paragraphs long each! But now I'm slacking off . . .

And Hash will surely forgive SpaceFalcon if he apologises. :)
Reply

SpaceFalcon2001
03-22-2005, 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by Osman
But you gotta compliment Hash on being so strong and having so much love for his religion.
I think we've proven time and again, whatever he loves, it isn't Islamic.

It's unfortunate to say that my comment is true, and Hash is just the kind of person to keep on perpetuating such tragedies. With people like him, peace is impossible.
Originally Posted by Genius
Manners bro, I've heard stories of jews being human shields to save arabs in Palestine and saving muslims on 9/11.
I can't say I've heard many stories of the opposite. I have nothing against Muslims, I like Islam. It's a good religion, with many good adherents. But I don't care for terrorists.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-23-2005, 06:44 PM
Allow me to have that honour, Hash.

I will show you what you are doing is in direct contradiction to the Qur'an:
41:34 Nor can goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: Then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!

Instead of following this verse, you insult people and drive them away from Islamic websites.


Hash, I have no problem with what you believe. I don't care. You can believe whatever you want. There's nothing wrong with that.

The problem is the WAY you are expressing your beliefs.

I am not asking you to change your postion yet. I just want you to change the way you discuss things. Less emotional and more objective. No more insulting. The discussion doesn't get anywhere otherwise.

And remember, SpaceFalcon is of the People of the Book, and the Qur'an says:
29:46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except in the BEST manner

Insulting people and threatening them is NOT the best manner.

So I'm not asking you to change your postion on anything right now.

All I'm asking is for you to discuss these issues properly, with kindness and politeness.

:w:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-23-2005, 09:12 PM
:sl:
Originally Posted by Hash
I only retaliate, i do not transgese. I never start the hostilities or the insulting or whatever you want to call it.
Can you show me where SpaceFalcon called you a dog? Or where he said 'hell'?

They speak harsh to my brothers and sisters i DEFINELTY speak harsh to them.
Then you have disobeyed the verses I just quoted.

These i do say at times, i have a short fuse, may allah azzawajjal cure me from this.
Ameen. That's all I'm asking. That you stopp calling people dog etc. and stop insulting people.

You know Hash, on the UI forum a brother named Benjamin said he had been interested in Islam but he saw your posts and he thought all muslims were ignorant. WALLAHI. I am not lying. He said he was planning on leaving the forum, but then after you left UI he stayed.

HE BECAME A MUSLIM WITHIN A MONTH.

Had you not left the Understanding Islam forum he would not have stayed and learnt about Islam. You almost prevented someone from becoming a muslim with your behaviour.

And now you are doing the same thing. Blocking people from learning about Islam.

BUT.......i never start the hostilities, and you can chek through all the posts etc and you will find this.
You show me who said the first insults. Show me.

When the jews bitterly muttered 'death be unto you' the noble messenger of allah (sallallhu alayi wa'salaam) replied 'and the same to you'. So the prophet 9sallallhu alyi wa'salaam) never started it, but he (sallallhu alyi wa'salaam) retaliated in the same tone.
Astaghfirullah!! :mad: This is an insult to the Prophet!
In fact, Aisha heard them curse Muhammad saws and she yelled back curses at them, but the Prophet saws stopped her and said, "Verily Allah swt loves kindness in all things.

The Prophet saws was a waliing Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us to repel evil with good. And you claim that the Prophet saws returned evil for evil!??!

allah knows best brother. Maybe you are right, if so, may allah azzawajjal forgive me.
brother, PLEASE think about this carefully. Stop the curses, stop the insults.

Dialogue in a good fashion.

29:46 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except in the BEST manner

Thank you for your co-operation.

:w:
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Uthman
03-23-2005, 10:28 PM
:sl:

I have full confidence that if Hash knew that he was in violation of the Qur'an he would certainly have stopped. We all know this. About that event that took place with prophet Muhammad, Hash must have simply been misinformed. Nothing more.

Hash appears to have realised for the most part where has gone wrong. Now it is our duty to help him. :)

:w:
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
03-23-2005, 11:13 PM
Hash, you keep accusing me of being like a UI person or something. Please tell me what I am doing wrong and if you convince me I will stop. I'm serious.

All I'm asking is for good behaviour on the forums! What on earth is wrong with that?!

PLEASE. tell me. SPECIFICALLY. What am I doing wrong by asking you to be polite?
Reply

Link
03-27-2005, 09:07 PM
anyone who supports the state of israel has left the bounds of humanity,

they are murderers and think they have the right of doing so, how can a muslim be not enraged with such people? how can anyone with any sense of humanity not be enraged with such people?

they are disease on the earth and to the muslim umma
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yoshiyahu
03-28-2005, 02:55 AM
anyone who supports the state of palestine has left the bounds of humanity,

they are murderers and think they have the right of doing so, how can a human be not enraged with such people? how can anyone with any sense of morals not be enraged with such people?

they are disease on the earth and to humanity
Oh, how one can point fingers so easily while ignoring what his own brothers do.

My alteration of your quote shows that just as much as your original quote did.
Reply

Link
03-28-2005, 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by yoshiyahu
Oh, how one can point fingers so easily while ignoring what his own brothers do.

My alteration of your quote shows that just as much as your original quote did.
My brothers are defending themselves, Israelis are the oppressors, no different that hitler
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yoshiyahu
03-28-2005, 10:29 PM
My brothers are defending themselves, Israelis are the oppressors, no different that hitler
Is that so? Is blowing yourself up a form of defense?

And tell me, what about the hundreds of thousands of Jews (and their millions of descendants) who fled from the Arab countries for their lives?
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Ansar Al-'Adl
03-29-2005, 08:24 PM
2 wrongs don't make a right.

5:8 O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
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yoshiyahu
03-29-2005, 09:34 PM
Yes yoshiyahu, can you understand why they are hated and chased?
Why who is hated and chased?
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yoshiyahu
03-30-2005, 03:57 PM
well then the answer is yes hash, just I understand why half of Israel hates them - for the exact same reasons that palestinians hate israelis.

If you think they're going to dismantle israeli after what you did to them in eygpt and other countries, you're crazy.
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yoshiyahu
03-31-2005, 09:34 PM
And I can show you the exact same types of things perpetrated by your Arab brethren.
Reply

Link
03-31-2005, 09:43 PM
who cares, they are taught that they are God's chosen chlidren and everyone else is created in a state less then a dog, made to serve them

this is the back ground they come with arguing with you, they want u to respect them but to them, killing muslims to them is like killing ants

May Allah fill keep me upon the path of dissociation of these enemies of Islam, just as he commanded in his book


In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

060.001
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! If ye have come out to strive in My Way and to seek My Good Pleasure, (take them not as friends), holding secret converse of love (and friendship) with them: for I know full well all that ye conceal and all that ye reveal. And any of you that does this has strayed from the Straight Path.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord? If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim? And whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Messenger and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord? If you go forth struggling hard in My path and seeking My pleasure, would you manifest love to them? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest; and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path.

060.002
YUSUFALI: If they were to get the better of you, they would behave to you as enemies, and stretch forth their hands and their tongues against you for evil: and they desire that ye should reject the Truth.
PICKTHAL: If they have the upper hand of you, they will be your foes, and will stretch out their hands and their tongues toward you with evil (intent), and they long for you to disbelieve.
SHAKIR: If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve.

060.003
YUSUFALI: Of no profit to you will be your relatives and your children on the Day of Judgment: He will judge between you: for Allah sees well all that ye do.
PICKTHAL: Your ties of kindred and your children will avail you naught upon the Day of Resurrection. He will part you. Allah is Seer of what ye do.
SHAKIR: Your relationship would not profit you, nor your children on the day of resurrection; He will decide between you; and Allah sees what you do.

060.004
YUSUFALI: There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.
PICKTHAL: There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their folk: Lo! we are guiltless of you and all that ye worship beside Allah. We have done with you. And there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only - save that which Abraham promised his father (when he said): I will ask forgiveness for thee, though I own nothing for thee from Allah - Our Lord! In Thee we put our trust, and unto Thee we turn repentant, and unto Thee is the journeying.
SHAKIR: Indeed, there is for you a good example in Ibrahim and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; we declare ourselves to be clear of you, and enmity and hatred have appeared between us and you forever until you believe in Allah alone-- but not in what Ibrahim said to his father: I would certainly ask forgiveness for you, and I do not control for you aught from Allah-- Our Lord! on Thee do we rely, and to Thee do we turn, and to Thee is the eventual coming:

060.005
YUSUFALI: "Our Lord! Make us not a (test and) trial for the Unbelievers, but forgive us, our Lord! for Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise."
PICKTHAL: Our Lord! Make us not a prey for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord! Lo! Thou, only Thou, are the Mighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR: Our Lord! do not make us a trial for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord! surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.

060.006
YUSUFALI: There was indeed in them an excellent example for you to follow,- for those whose hope is in Allah and in the Last Day. But if any turn away, truly Allah is Free of all Wants, Worthy of all Praise.
PICKTHAL: Verily ye have in them a goodly pattern for everyone who looketh to Allah and the Last Day. And whosoever may turn away, lo! still Allah, He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.
SHAKIR: Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

060.007
YUSUFALI: It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: It may be that Allah will bring about friendship between you and those whom you hold to be your enemies among them; and Allah is Powerful; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

060.008
YUSUFALI: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
PICKTHAL: Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion and drove you not out from your homes, that ye should show them kindness and deal justly with them. Lo! Allah loveth the just dealers.
SHAKIR: Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.

060.009
YUSUFALI: Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
PICKTHAL: Allah forbiddeth you only those who warred against you on account of religion and have driven you out from your homes and helped to drive you out, that ye make friends of them. Whosoever maketh friends of them - (All) such are wrong-doers.
SHAKIR: Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

060.010
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah: He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when believing women come to you flying, then examine them; Allah knows best their faith; then if you find them to be believing women, do not send them back to the unbelievers, neither are these (women) lawful for them, nor are those (men) lawful for them, and give them what they have spent; and no blame attaches to you in marrying them when you give them their dowries; and hold not to the ties of marriage of unbelieving women, and ask for what you have spent, and kt them ask for what they have spent. That is Allah's judgment; He judges between you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.

060.011
YUSUFALI: And if any of your wives deserts you to the Unbelievers, and ye have an accession (by the coming over of a woman from the other side), then pay to those whose wives have deserted the equivalent of what they had spent (on their dower). And fear Allah, in Whom ye believe.
PICKTHAL: And if any of your wives have gone from you unto the disbelievers and afterward ye have your turn (of triumph), then give unto those whose wives have gone the like of that which they have spent, and keep your duty to Allah in Whom ye are believers.
SHAKIR: And if anything (out of the dowries) of your wives has passed away from you to the unbelievers, then your turn comes, give to those whose wives have gone away the like of what they have spent, and be careful of (your duty to) Allah in Whom you believe.

060.012
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! When believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee, that they will not associate in worship any other thing whatever with Allah, that they will not steal, that they will not commit adultery (or fornication), that they will not kill their children, that they will not utter slander, intentionally forging falsehood, and that they will not disobey thee in any just matter,- then do thou receive their fealty, and pray to Allah for the forgiveness (of their sins): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! If believing women come unto thee, taking oath of allegiance unto thee that they will ascribe no thing as partner unto Allah, and will neither steal nor commit adultery nor kill their children, nor produce any lie that they have devised between their hands and feet, nor disobey thee in what is right, then accept their allegiance and ask Allah to forgive them. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! when believing women come to you giving you a pledge that they will not associate aught with Allah, and will not steal, and will not commit fornication, and will not kill their children, and will not bring a calumny which they have forged of themselves, and will not disobey you in what is good, accept their pledge, and ask forgiveness for them from Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

060.013
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Turn not (for friendship) to people on whom is the Wrath of Allah, of the Hereafter they are already in despair, just as the Unbelievers are in despair about those (buried) in graves.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Be not friendly with a folk with whom Allah is wroth, (a folk) who have despaired of the Hereafter as the disbelievers despair of those who are in the graves.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! do not make friends with a people with whom Allah is wroth; indeed they despair of the hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in tombs.



May Allah curse the Isreali supporters till they desist, may Allah hearden their hearts intensely, lead them to nothing but deafness and blindness as long as their hearts are hard toward my palestian brothers!
Reply

SpaceFalcon2001
04-01-2005, 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by Link
who cares, they are taught that they are God's chosen chlidren and everyone else is created in a state less then a dog, made to serve them
Muslims and christians both do not understand the talmud, and seek to use whatever quotes they can to create lies about it's intentions. Yes one rabbi made the comment that non-Jews were lowly beings (the rest on your part is a dramatization), but what the Jew-haters don't want you to read was how all the other Rabbis rejected his statement!

Frankly it doesn't matter to you if the quote is true at all. False Talmud quotes are released all the time, but you simply have no way of verifying what is said, or even the context of what is in there.
this is the back ground they come with arguing with you, they want u to respect them but to them, killing muslims to them is like killing ants
And killing Jews and Muslims the terrorists don't like is nothing to you.
May Allah fill keep me upon the path of dissociation of these enemies of Islam, just as he commanded in his book
There are many out of context lies concerning the content in the Quran, but I do not lower myself to your level to spread lies and hate about a document that terrorists and terrorist supporters like you use as justification to steal land and kill others, and complain if anyone retaliates.
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Ansar Al-'Adl
04-01-2005, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted by SpaceFalcon2001
Yes one rabbi made the comment that non-Jews were lowly beings (the rest on your part is a dramatization), but what the Jew-haters don't want you to read was how all the other Rabbis rejected his statement!
Who was that Rabbi who said that?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
04-01-2005, 01:36 AM
Link, what point are you tying to make with the opening verses of Mumtahina?
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SpaceFalcon2001
04-01-2005, 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by Ansar Al-'Adl
Who was that Rabbi who said that?
The opinions of many many many Rabbis are in the Talmud. Not all of them are legal either, the entire point of the talmud is that it is a huge debate of differing opinions on the law and majority/logic rules.

So whichever Rabbi it was, he isn't a notable one. There are a few big names in the Talmud like Hillel and Shammai, but they don't say anything exceptionally off the wall.
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-01-2005, 05:37 AM
who cares, they are taught that they are God's chosen chlidren and everyone else is created in a state less then a dog, made to serve them
Source? And please, this time don't use quotes that don't exist. If you're going to claim it, be prepared to back it up with a verifiable source.

Originally Posted by Link
"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
There's lie #1.

http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/man.html

Originally Posted by Link
"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew." Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30
There's lie number 2. There is no work in existence by the name of that title. Furthermore, Akum means "idol worshipper". However, if Link point to me where an English translation of this alleged book - or even better, the original hebrew - can be found, I'll be glad to purchase it and look up the reference. I'll even scan every page of the book.

Originally Posted by Link
"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form." Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855
Now this is something I would like to look up. Would you please provide me a link as to where I can purchase this translation? (Assuming, of course, you didn't just copy and paste of some anti-semetic site that couldn't read the original hebrew if their lives depended on it)

Originally Posted by Link
"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal." Coschen hamischpat 405
From frum.org

" The above quote is a wrong inference from a fiscal law in Shulchan Oruch, Choshen Mishpat 405.3, that relates to times when slavery was a standard and accepted practice across the world.

It states that if an ox gored a pregnant woman, and this resulted in the loss of the fetus, the owner does not have to pay for the loss of the fetus (medical expenses and other damages are discussed elsewhere). If an ox gored a pregnant non-Jewish slave-woman, the owner of the ox has to pay for the loss of the fetus to the owner of the slave-woman (because the owner would have had another slave to work for him had the woman given birth). The same applies if the ox gored a pregnant cow, or a sheep, because had the animal given birth, the owner would have had an extra one. The law is clearly hinged on the rights of the owner, and does not compare non-Jews and animals in any way. It is purely legal, and does not have any philosophical or social implications."


Originally Posted by Link
"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs." Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b[/B]
That quote simply does not exist. Futhermore, Yalkut Reuveini does not have pages labeled as "a" or "b" - the pages are numbered individually.

Originally Posted by Link
"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human." Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b
Another quote that does not exist.
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
04-01-2005, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

It is impossible to discuss with you two, you just dont look at facts. My dear brother link, is providing facts, and refernces. Yet insted of checking these refernces and debating these sources, you just cowardly deny them and call them lies.
What a ridiculous thing to say. You have not refuted any of his explanations provided, nor can you actually provide a source to the quote from the book.

What then prompts you to deny his explanation? Hatred?

Please be constructive in your discussions.
Reply

Link
04-01-2005, 10:26 PM
yoshiyahu, ok, but here the bottom facts, everybody can take those sources and do search on google, u'll see tons of sites, christian, athiest, quoting what you are calling a lie, if i ever have time to do so, i will find these books and scan them, u are accussing me of lies, but do the google search, u'll see tons of sites saying the say same thing, tell me one reason why we should not trust them and trust a jew who supports the state of Isreal

doing a google search, i found even more quotes about how it is ok to kill non-jews according to your books, but since i will get banned by posting them, i can just advice members to do a google search and they will find that these references are well known (and not just posted by muslim sites), if anyone can find a online source of each of the books in their entirety, please do share with us
Reply

Link
04-01-2005, 10:31 PM
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=...%2C+114b&meta=

all those sites are liars?
Reply

SpaceFalcon2001
04-03-2005, 03:22 AM
Originally Posted by Link
Yes. By continuing through the search page you can find such site as talmudlies.com and fixedearth.com. By searching far enough I can even find this link on the subject: http://www.nazi.org/library/race/judaism.html

Truly, we should look to the Nazis to give us factual information about the Jews!

These sites are not objective, they only exist to demean the talmud and the Jew. How can you know that these are lies? They take advantage of the fact that you've never seen a talmud, and will never see one. They can quote whatever page they like and say whatever they want, but when I pry open the book they quote, it is interesting how this quote telling about the evil non-Jew doesn't exist.

They are no more true than the hundereds of sites on the internet telling us how "Islam commands the death of disbelievers" and the "evils of the Quran". (http://www.2him4him.com/html/islam_threat.html) <-- could all sites like this be lying? :-X

Let's play a game:
"Non-Jews are no more than theives" (Baba Dacta, 22b)
How do you know it doesn't exist? Would you think it was true if I made 50 websites advertise it?
"Those who do not submit to allah are worms that crawled from hell!" ("Original" Quran 123:4)
How does a non-muslim know that isn't true? I could show that to any christian I meet on the street and they will assume it is a true quote. :eek:

The same is true for either side, because of a lack of access to the book, you can make up whatever you feel like, and fools will assume it must be perfectly in context, and true.
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-03-2005, 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

It is impossible to discuss with you two, you just dont look at facts. My dear brother link, is providing facts, and refernces. Yet insted of checking these refernces and debating these sources, you just cowardly deny them and call them lies.

:w:
Because the fact is that they are lies. Guess what? I have personally looked for many of these - to no avail! If you are going to claim that a quote exists in a source, you had better prepare to back your claims up with evidence!
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-03-2005, 05:52 AM
Originally Posted by Link
Not all of them. For example, a great example is the 2nd link google returned:

CLAIM "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts." Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

RESPONSE (1) This represents a lack of knowledge of Hebrew at a most fundamental level. Here, the anti-Semites claim that Adam means human but it really means man. "Yetsoor" is the Hebrew word for human. Jews are referred to by the singular form of man, Adam, whilst non-Jews are referred to by the plural form of man, or anasheem. Both forms of the word mean human, but one is single, the other is plural. The reason that Jews are referred to in the singular is that if one Jew does something bad, or is alleged to have, all Jews are blamed for it. So, for the wrongdoing or alleged wrongdoing of one, all suffer. In the case of non-Jews, only individuals suffer, not all of the non-Jews. So that is why Jews are referred to as a single person and non-Jews are referred to in the plural. David S. Maddison (maddison@connexus.net.au)

RESPONSE (2) (Also, see other responses elswhere.) Apparently a deliberate mistranslation. The passage deals with the technical rules of corpse-impurity which, according to the author of this text, apply to Jews and not to gentiles. In this connection Ezekiel 34:31 is cited: "And ye My sheep [referring to Israel], the sheep of My pasture, are _men [Hebrew: "adam"]_, and I am your God, saith the Lord God." From a careful midrashic reading of this Biblical verse, Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai deduced "Only "ye" [i.e., Israel, not other nations] are designated "adam," in the sense that only Jewish corpses and graves generate impurity according to Numbers 19:14: "This is the law: when a _man ['adam']_ dieth in a tent, every one that cometh into the tent...shall be unclean seven days..." The passage is legal and exegetical, not theological. If anything, it seems to put Jews on a lower footing than non-Jews. Typically, the words "but beasts" were added on by whoever put this list together. They do not appear in the original. Correspondent of catamont@concentric.net (Sara Salzman) catamont-2305980759150001@ts003d13.d...concentric.net


Of course, it should be worthwhile mentiong that the number of websites saying something doesn't prove anything. Ex: What do the majority of Southern Baptist websites say about Islam?
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-03-2005, 05:56 AM
I would also like to point out that one should not claim that some religion's text says something without first being able to actually read the language it was written in. That is one of the reasons I am learning arabic - I will not be decieved by some person's translation.
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-04-2005, 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

Do you wish to study to study the Qur'an? (you are learning arabic so i presume you wish to study the holy Qur'an)

:w:
Yes. I plan on purchasing (as soon as I can find one) an Arabic-English Qu'ran (one with the Arabic on one page, and an English translation on the other). This will also allow me to read many of the classical works from Jewish sages in the original language.
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-05-2005, 01:24 AM
Do you know of any English-Arabic Qurans that you would recommend, Hash? (Vowelized, if possible)
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-06-2005, 05:22 AM
I was unable to find this translation with a google search. Do you know of a website that carries it?
Reply

Ansar Al-'Adl
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by yoshiyahu
I was unable to find this translation with a google search. Do you know of a website that carries it?
I would suggest the following websites:
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM
http://www.al-sunnah.com/call_to_islam/quran/index.html
http://quraan.com/index.aspx?tabindex=1&tabid=27
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-06-2005, 11:55 PM
Hi guys,

I was looking for a purchasable Arabic-English Qu'ran (one with the Arabic on one page, and the English on the other)
Reply

Far7an
04-06-2005, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by yoshiyahu
Hi guys,

I was looking for a purchasable Arabic-English Qu'ran (one with the Arabic on one page, and the English on the other)
Were do you reside? I can arrange one to be sent out to you.
Reply

SpaceFalcon2001
04-07-2005, 02:52 AM
From the UK? That's a big shipping charge...

If you're willing, can I have one too? Does it do the 3 english side by side thing, or does it use a certain translation?
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-07-2005, 06:39 PM
Originally Posted by Hash
:sl:

There must be a Darussalaam islamic bookshop near you. They really are good, and they do good prices too!

:w:
Not right now, I'm stuck in this city until this fall when I'll be able to afford a maxi-scooter, motorcycle, or car.
Reply

yoshiyahu
04-07-2005, 06:39 PM
I'll pm farhan.
Reply

afriend
04-01-2006, 08:01 PM
Why does the media not pick up on these thing instead of just the bad things that some Muslims do.....
Reply

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