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Cabdullahi
02-07-2008, 01:34 PM
The Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams says the adoption of Islamic Sharia law in the UK is "unavoidable".
Dr Williams told BBC Radio 4's World at One that the UK has to "face up to the fact" that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.

Dr Williams argues that adopting some aspects of Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion.

For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court.

He says Muslims should not have to choose between "the stark alternatives of cultural loyalty or state loyalty".

'Sensational reporting'

In an exclusive interview with BBC correspondent Christopher Landau, ahead of a lecture to lawyers in London later on Monday, Dr Williams argues this relies on Sharia law being better understood. At the moment, he says "sensational reporting of opinion polls" clouds the issue.

He stresses that "nobody in their right mind would want to see in this country the kind of inhumanity that's sometimes been associated with the practice of the law in some Islamic states".

His comments are likely to fuel the debate over multiculturalism in the UK.

Last month, one of Dr William's colleagues, the Bishop of Rochester, said that non-Muslims may find it hard to live or work in some areas of the UK.

The Right Reverend Dr Michael Nazir-Ali said there was "hostility" in some areas and described the government's multicultural policies as divisive.

He said there had been a worldwide resurgence of Islamic extremism, leading to young people growing up alienated from the country they lived in.

He has since received death threats and has been placed under police protection.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7232661.stm
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aamirsaab
02-07-2008, 01:51 PM
:sl:
Hmm, might be a problem tho cus sharia law can only be implimented in an islamic state (which would require a caliphate of some sort). Well, at least that is what I have been told.

Perhaps if the government of today just looked at the solutions that sharia law has to certain problems (namely alcohol abuse, pre-marital sex, adultery, rape) as opposed to implimenting sharia law, it may go down better with society.
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Cabdullahi
02-07-2008, 01:53 PM
Yeah i think shariah law would do wonders for britain
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S_87
02-07-2008, 02:35 PM
i think he just wanted some publicity :rolleyes:
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Muezzin
02-07-2008, 03:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by amani
i think he just wanted some publicity :rolleyes:
He's the Archbishop of Canterbury. Why would he want even more annoying publicity?
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guyabano
02-07-2008, 03:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Yeah i think shariah law would do wonders for britain
That was a sarcastic comment, now was it ?



The only wonder I know is a battery brand called 'Wonder'

Peace
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Cognescenti
02-07-2008, 04:02 PM
Wait a minute...the guy offers a cross-cultural olive branch and you guys **** all over him? What is up with that?

Wow. This is going to take a while. I hope my future grandkids don't have to deal with this crap but I am not optimisitic. Maybe we should just get it over with and go toe to toe. Islam vs the World. Would that be a good solution?
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Muezzin
02-07-2008, 04:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Wait a minute...the guy offers a cross-cultural olive branch and you guys **** all over him? What is up with that?

Wow. This is going to take a while. I hope my future grandkids don't have to deal with this crap but I am not optimisitic. Maybe we should just get it over with and go toe to toe. Islam vs the World. Would that be a good solution?
I suspect, when you posted that, you had what is known in common parlane as a brain fart.

It's the only possible explanation considering there was precisely one Muslim member bleeping all over him at the time you posted. The two who posted before that member were actually being positive.

Me? I was just being a nutter comic-wannabe as usual.
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Cognescenti
02-07-2008, 05:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
I suspect, when you posted that, you had what is known in common parlane as a brain fart.

It's the only possible explanation considering there was precisely one Muslim member bleeping all over him at the time you posted. The two who posted before that member were actually being positive.

Me? I was just being a nutter comic-wannabe as usual.
Perhaps, but the poor guy is getting it from both sides. If the interlocutors are lacerated from both their own group and from the target group it is going to be difficult to find anyone to step into the free-fire zone. Where is the spirit of compromise?
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The_Prince
02-07-2008, 06:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Wait a minute...the guy offers a cross-cultural olive branch and you guys **** all over him? What is up with that?

Wow. This is going to take a while. I hope my future grandkids don't have to deal with this crap but I am not optimisitic. Maybe we should just get it over with and go toe to toe. Islam vs the World. Would that be a good solution?
you are indeed a very stupid idiot do you know that?

since i know your an ignorant American you think it is actually Islam vs the World.

As we speak right now Christians are killing Christians in mass numbers, over 800 have died in a month of fighting in Kenya. in DMC of congo 45,000 die a month due to a civil war being raged by people of the Christian faith.

lets go to India as well where in the north east Christian terrorists are killing Hindus, and lets go elsewhere in India where Hindu extremists are now killing and attacking Christians as well, there was even a report showing how anti-Christian violence is on the up in India thanks to Hindu extremists.

Lets even go to the streets of california, where right now gangs of mexicans are pitted against gangs of African-Americans, which even got coverage on several news stations, and it was so bad the FBI was called in because they were actually kicking blacks out of mexican areas and vice versa.

lets go to Columbia where there is another civil war being fought there as we speak. or how about Spain where the ETA are doing their violent activities?

i could go on forever, but the point has been made, it isnt Islam VS the world as you think, i know your brainwashed to think this that all problems right now are between Muslims and other ppl, but as i said, your stupid, your an islamphobe retard so i dont blame you for this thinking.

more christians kill christians than any Muslim will ever do! more westerners kill westerners than any Muslim will ever do....but since you people do have a problem with responsibility its always easy to blame Muslims and put the light on Muslims to hide your own backward violence.......heck i had one stupid american Islamophobe actually claim the violence in Kenya was started by Muslims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if we really looked at statistics, the Iraqi internal fighting will look like a picnic in the park when we compare it with CURRENT christian on christian and western on western fighting. FACTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
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aadil77
02-07-2008, 06:22 PM
some form of shariah law would help out alot , especially interest free banking , so yeah nice of the bishop to be so understanding of our needs
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AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 06:33 PM
Sorry people but I don't agree with it!

This silly man raising this issue as it will cause a very adverse reaction from most people (a very tiny minority of muslims would want this here, and now it'll be front page news heading ''MUSLIMS WANT SHARIA LAW'') In principle there can only be one set of laws passed by Parliament applicable to EVERYONE! Otherwise I want to live by SIKH laws, so us Sikhs too can 'fit' in!
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Heera Singh
02-07-2008, 07:55 PM
the comment was made for 'sharia law' for muslims only, not for the whole of the UK... therefore only muslims would be subject to sharia law, not others..
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Cognescenti
02-07-2008, 08:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Sorry people but I don't agree with it!

This silly man raising this issue as it will cause a very adverse reaction from most people (a very tiny minority of muslims would want this here, and now it'll be front page news heading ''MUSLIMS WANT SHARIA LAW'') In principle there can only be one set of laws passed by Parliament applicable to EVERYONE! Otherwise I want to live by SIKH laws, so us Sikhs too can 'fit' in!
I tend to agree with you. It is certainly a hot button issue. Oh well, at least he meant well. Let's hope the public flaying of his flesh from his bones doesn't hurt too much. :sunny:
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AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 08:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Heera Singh
The comment was made for 'sharia law' for muslims only, not for the whole of the UK... therefore only muslims would be subject to sharia law, not others..
Does this now segregate muslims even MORE? than they already are?

England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are non-muslim states, so just because a a small proportion of Muslims have decided they want sharia here, doesn't mean the country should change its laws to suit them. It's unfair! It will disunite the rest who live here, they will be resented by the other faiths. Maybe that's the idea... :hmm:
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Amadeus85
02-07-2008, 09:04 PM
It would be interesting to ask muslims living in UK if they do want to live under full shariah law.I mean, haven't they run away from muslim countries also to have chance living in real democratic country?If they wanted to live under strict islamic law, they would choose Sudan or Pakistan, not UK.
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Heera Singh
02-07-2008, 09:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Does this now segregate muslims even MORE? than they already are?

England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are non-muslim states, so just because a a small proportion of Muslims have decided they want sharia here, doesn't mean the country should change its laws to suit them. It's unfair! It will disunite the rest who live here, they will be resented by the other faiths. Maybe that's the idea... :hmm:
Veerji I think your right... it cud been seen as further segregation.. personally i don't think feel there shud be special treatment to please only ONE minority.. if they're gonna do it for muslims, then each faith shud have their own 'governing body' so to speak.. but, that wud cause even MORE segregation...

so it seems like a bad idea altogether... and i'm sure many muslims are against the idea of havin to fall under Sharia Law...
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جوري
02-07-2008, 10:09 PM
Does sikhism have an established system for running a govt.?
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Heera Singh
02-07-2008, 10:13 PM
only the "rehat maryada" -- which is the way we're supposed to live our life.

If i'm not mistaken, sharia law was made based on the Qura'an right? We don't have a "law" per se... but the "sikh code of conduct" (rehat maryada) is what we're to live by..

however... laws can be made based on this code of conduct, which was told to us by our Guru's and is backed up by Sree Guru Granth Sahib Jee (holy scriptures)..
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جوري
02-07-2008, 10:43 PM
a 'law of conduct' is more in concert with aqeeda (creed), the humane aspect of every day living and I don't believe that differs from one religion to the next, I am pretty sure you can even get some atheists to agree on the bulk of its values as they will be centered around the original ten commandaments.. however, an established system of govt. is something all together different. That is what sharia law is.. it is basically law under an islamic state.. people need to go to school for it, just as the westerners go to school to study the American or french Constitution, amendments, and jurisprudence!

after imperialism and the dissolution of the Muslim empire you'll find most countries govern by french Constitution.. countries like Egypt, Lebanon, etc.. a bunch of fogies have sat down and wrote some laws sometime around the 18th century and that is what so-called 'Muslim countries' now implement in lieu of God's law!

frankly there are texts upon texts of jurisprudence, not simply from the Quran but hadith as well. I haven't seen a comprable system save for Judaism, unless you can show me intricacies of the law under sikhism, I don't see how the two can be compared?!

peace
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Heera Singh
02-07-2008, 10:57 PM
I don't believe that differs from one religion to the next
I don't totally agree with that statement... although some principles may be similar in all faiths, there are many that don't..

For example, the Sikh Rehat Maryada forbids alcohol, meat, removing of hair from the body, and sex before marriage..

eating Meat and removing hair and to some extent consumption of alcohol isn't against the belief of many faiths..

Also, Sikhs (real sikhs, not those who call themselves sikhs jus for the sake of being labelled) are mandated to be baptised and wear 5 articles of faith... this does not hold the same for other faiths as well..

as for a Law of Governance, there is not one..
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AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 11:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
a 'law of conduct' is more in concert with aqeeda (creed), the humane aspect of every day living and I don't believe that differs from one religion to the next, I am pretty sure you can even get some atheists to agree on the bulk of its values as they will be centered around the original ten commandaments.. however, an established system of govt. is something all together different. That is what sharia law is.. it is basically law under an islamic state.. people need to go to school for it, just as the westerners go to school to study the American or french Constitution, amendments, and jurisprudence!

after imperialism and the dissolution of the Muslim empire you'll find most countries govern by french Constitution.. countries like Egypt, Lebanon, etc.. a bunch of fogies have sat down and wrote some laws sometime around the 18th century and that is what so-called 'Muslim countries' now implement in lieu of God's law!

frankly there are texts upon texts of jurisprudence, not simply from the Quran but hadith as well. I haven't seen a comprable system save for Judaism, unless you can show me intricacies of the law under sikhism, I don't see how the two can be compared?!

peace
So sister is the stoning to death not permitted in Islam? or is it the fogies who concoted them? I'm not in the know here.

Bhai Heera has given you the reply on Sikhi law

Here is the list which is also to be observed.

i). Naam Japna - Meditation on God's Name and the recital of the holy scriptures:


a). To arise in the early hours and recite Gurbani in the morning (Five Banis), evening (Rehras) and night (Kirtan Sohila) followed each time with the Ardas prayer. To remember God at all times and to recite his name whenever possible. (Naam Simran)

b). Seek only the support of the Almighty Lord before beginning any new task or venture. (Ardas)
ii. Kirat Karni - Leading ones life in accordance with the Guru's teachings:


a). Engage in a honest profession or other work or study course.

b). Promote the family way of life giving time to children in an active way so as to ensure their proper awareness of the Sikh way of life.

c). To live humbly and with love in an extended family group encouraging Gurmat principles and offering moral support within this extended structure.
iii. Sewa – Undertake free voluntary service within the community at Gurdwaras, community projects, hospitals, old peoples homes, nurseries, etc.

a). At every opportunity to spend ones free time to free community work and devote at least 10% of ones wealth in time or money to support community projects.

b). To positively support weaker members within the community.
iv). Disciplined Life:
The Sikh is commanded by the Gurus to lead a disciplined life and to not follow blindly rituals and superstitions which bring no spiritual or material benefit to the person or community.


A). Follow the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and take part in the Sikh Ceremonies.

B). Eat simple food in moderation and refrain from any food or drink that causes determent to the body or mind like alcohol, drugs, tobacco, etc.

C). Refrain from rituals, superstitions and other anti-Sikh behaviour such as gambling, etc.

D). Apart from ones wife (or Husband) to treat all or females (or males) as daughters, sisters or mothers (sons, brothers or fathers) depending on their age.

E). To practise and promote complete equality between the genders; castes; races, religions, etc.
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جوري
02-07-2008, 11:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Heera Singh
I don't totally agree with that statement... although some principles may be similar in all faiths, there are many that don't..

For example, the Sikh Rehat Maryada forbids alcohol, meat, removing of hair from the body, and sex before marriage..

eating Meat and removing hair and to some extent consumption of alcohol isn't against the belief of many faiths..

Also, Sikhs (real sikhs, not those who call themselves sikhs jus for the sake of being labelled) are mandated to be baptised and wear 5 articles of faith... this does not hold the same for other faiths as well..

as for a Law of Governance, there is not one..
I am not going to discuss minor nuances of your religion, My best friend is sikh, I consider her religious (prays/wears your articles, is a virgin and attends gurdwara for prayers), but she drinks alcohol and eats meat.. that aside..
I believe that Avar wanted accomadation of a 'sikh way of Govt.', and my argument is, aside from the basic principles of your religion which any so-called secular govt. has to respect, there really is no system to adhere to. Thus it makes no difference if you are living under, 'democracy' 'oligarachy', 'socialism', 'communism'-- The only other so-called religion run system of Govt. is in Judaism and they don't implement it in Israel.. theirs too is a secular state and I believe that is the way they want it until their 'moschiach' makes an entry.

For Muslims a system of Govt. has already been established, and was impelemented for centuries until its dissolution. I doubt it can be combined with another existing system, surely there are many clashes of ideals..


cheers
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جوري
02-07-2008, 11:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
So sister is the stoning to death not permitted in Islam?
it depends.. pre-marital vs. extramrital, as well as producing 4 number of witnesses.. Again. there is an established law, that isn't to be implemented at someone's whimsy!


or is it the fogies who concoted them? I'm not in the know here.
see above reply!

Bhai Heera has given you the reply on Sikhi law

Here is the list which is also to be observed.

i). Naam Japna - Meditation on God's Name and the recital of the holy scriptures:
Meditation isn't govt.

a). To arise in the early hours and recite Gurbani in the morning (Five Banis), evening (Rehras) and night (Kirtan Sohila) followed each time with the Ardas prayer. To remember God at all times and to recite his name whenever possible. (Naam Simran)

b). Seek only the support of the Almighty Lord before beginning any new task or venture. (Ardas)
ii. Kirat Karni - Leading ones life in accordance with the Guru's teachings:


a). Engage in a honest profession or other work or study course.

b). Promote the family way of life giving time to children in an active way so as to ensure their proper awareness of the Sikh way of life.

c). To live humbly and with love in an extended family group encouraging Gurmat principles and offering moral support within this extended structure.
iii. Sewa – Undertake free voluntary service within the community at Gurdwaras, community projects, hospitals, old peoples homes, nurseries, etc.

a). At every opportunity to spend ones free time to free community work and devote at least 10% of ones wealth in time or money to support community projects.

b). To positively support weaker members within the community.
iv). Disciplined Life:
The Sikh is commanded by the Gurus to lead a disciplined life and to not follow blindly rituals and superstitions which bring no spiritual or material benefit to the person or community.


A). Follow the teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and take part in the Sikh Ceremonies.

B). Eat simple food in moderation and refrain from any food or drink that causes determent to the body or mind like alcohol, drugs, tobacco, etc.

C). Refrain from rituals, superstitions and other anti-Sikh behaviour such as gambling, etc.

D). Apart from ones wife (or Husband) to treat all or females (or males) as daughters, sisters or mothers (sons, brothers or fathers) depending on their age.

E). To practise and promote complete equality between the genders; castes; races, religions, etc.
that isn't a system of govt. These are tenets of your religion.. and again, doesn't differ much from any other religion.. if you are going to get very picky with minor practices, carrying a comb vs. wearing a yamaka that differ from creed to creed is a negligible detail and has nothing whatsoever to do with the law...

peace
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AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 11:42 PM
But that is our LAW!
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AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 11:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
it depends.. pre-marital vs. extramrital, as well as producing 4 number of witnesses.. Again. there is an established law, that isn't to be implemented at someone's whimsy!

Peace
I (and many others) find this particular rule very sexist. - Why is it not permitted for a woman who has been raped to say so. without producing four witnesses. Do you think the perp will provide an audience?

Also it's been stated you don't have women in the judical process because If she's going through her Menstruation It'll affect her mind. Hmmm. How demeaning! Do you as a women not percieve it his way?
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جوري
02-07-2008, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
But that is our LAW!
that is creed dear Avar, not jurisprudence..
Just the mere fact that you've summed it all in one page, should already tell you, that it doesn't equate with law..

people need to go to Islamic law school to implement Islamic Govt. It isn't merely a basic set of tenets!
browse any number of the book titles listed below to get an idea of just how expansive it is!

peace

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Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I am not going to discuss minor nuances of your religion, My best friend is sikh, I consider her religious (prays/wears your articles, is a virgin and attends gurdwara for prayers), but she drinks alcohol and eats meat.. that aside..

cheers
Minor? this isn't minor! She's not a Amritdhari (Baptised) if she's drinking and eating meat.

Not saying she's less of a Sikh, but it's not permissble in Sikhi do be a partime Sikh.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-07-2008, 11:54 PM
I have no intention of reading these publications. If you're here to fly the flag for sharia law, you'll provide the appropriate material for inspection in this here thread.
Reply

جوري
02-07-2008, 11:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
B]I (and many others) find this particular rule very sexist. - Why is it not permitted for a woman who has been raped to say so. without producing four witnesses. Do you think the perp will provide an audience?
I truly have no idea what you are talking about? or where you are coming up with this? There was a time when if a man so much as lifted a women's skirt to humiliate her a whole army would rise in her defense!

Also it's been stated you don't have women in the judical process because of she's going through her Menstruation It'll affect her mind. Hmmm. How demeaning! Do you as a women not percieve it his way?[/B]
We have had women in the judicial system, I assure you, merely browsing through this forum will yeild search results for you!
peace
Reply

جوري
02-07-2008, 11:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
I have no intention of reading these publications. If you're here to fly the flag for sharia law, you'll provide the appropriate material for inspection in this here thread.
I don't understand what that means?
other than that, I couldn't give you a fatwa one way or the other, I went to medical school, not Islamic law school..
I am sure there are a number of members here who have and can shed light on a particular matter.. I am not going to cite rule number 584385 in the matter of 584958 and the subheading of 45u7984359 of so vs. so

and I don't think I am under any obligation to!

peace
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 12:00 AM
There was a time when if a man so much as lifted a women's skirt to humiliate her a whole army would rise in her defense!
Well in a civilised society it's what still happens.


We have had women in the judicial system, I assure you, merely browsing through this forum will yeild search results for you!

This was on the radio. Not taken from any forums. Enlighten me.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 12:03 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
I don't understand what that means?
other than that, I couldn't give you a fatwa one way or the other, I went to medical school, not Islamic law school..
I am sure there are a number of members here who have and can shed light on a particular matter.. I am not going to cite rule number 584385 in the matter of 584958 and the subheading of 45u7984359 of so vs. so

and I don't think I am under any obligation to!

peace
Then why go all 'ape' over it if you're not going to shed light on it, or will it only add more weight to my facts?
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 12:19 AM
[QUOTE=AvarAllahNoor;910916][
B]Well in a civilised society it's what still happens.[/B]
what happens?


This was on the radio. Not taken from any forums. Enlighten me.
what was on the radio?

peace
Reply

snakelegs
02-08-2008, 12:22 AM
For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court.
i don't really see the big deal here. i think in new york, jews have their own courts for stuff like the above and it hasn't hurt anybody.
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 12:22 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Then why go all 'ape' over it if you're not going to shed light on it, or will it only add more weight to my facts?
I don't see how it could? You are arguing for implementation of a system to not be left behind as a miniority, a system that your religion has in fact failed to establish for you to be remotely upset that one group will be accomadated over you..

as for intricacies on jurisprudence.. I am not really sure what you want to know of it?
will reading an article on the web covering Henoch-Schönlein Purpura or Lindner bodies in cells infected with trachoma make you an expert in medicine?

carry that analogy through when discussing law and jurisprudence.

peace
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 12:24 AM
What was on the radio?
I was listening to the James Whale show. He's had Muslims on the radio and he's discussing this sharia law issue.

What happens?
In a civilised society there would be an uproar for the izzat (honour) of a woman. OK, we fall short of declaring war...
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 12:29 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone

as for intricacies on jurisprudence.. I am not really sure what you want to know of it?
will reading an article on the web covering Henoch-Schönlein Purpura or Lindner bodies in cells infected with trachoma make you an expert in medicine?

Carry that analogy through when discussing law and jurisprudence.

peace
Well it'll shed light on the matter....or is everything on the net fabricated...

I don't see how it could? You are arguing for implementation of a system to not be left behind as a miniority, a system that your religion has in fact failed to establish for you to be remotely upset that one group will be accomadated over you..
Emigrate to to the Panjab, you'll see how Sikhi law is implemented. If you and others want shariah, go to and reside in Sudan, Iran, SA, Qatar, (many others) you'll have laws to live by that meet your criteria....

Gur Fateh
Reply

Heera Singh
02-08-2008, 12:30 AM
Eve.. don't you find it very unfair for a woman who has been raped, to have produce 4 male witnesses? In fact, i think the people who should be 'stoned' are those 4 males who watched her get raped and didn't do anything about it...

those 4 people who wouldn't do anything while their fellow sister is getting raped, are nothing more then cowards...
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 12:34 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Heera Singh
Eve.. don't you find it very unfair for a woman who has been raped, to have produce 4 male witnesses? In fact, i think the people who should be 'stoned' are those 4 males who watched her get raped and didn't do anything about it...

those 4 people who wouldn't do anything while their fellow sister is getting raped, are nothing more then cowards...
One woman was given lashes for being raped! I mean what is going on when you're punished for someody raping YOU! Ya Allah!
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 12:51 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Heera Singh
Eve.. don't you find it very unfair for a woman who has been raped, to have produce 4 male witnesses? In fact, i think the people who should be 'stoned' are those 4 males who watched her get raped and didn't do anything about it...

those 4 people who wouldn't do anything while their fellow sister is getting raped, are nothing more then cowards...
Exuse me? I have said no such thing.
I have established certain truths for you
1- there is no Islamic state anywhere currently in the world implenting shari3a law
2- No one here on this board Muslim or otherwise, unless they are actually graduate of schools on Islamic law can give you a fatwa as to what evidence was needed, presented or required for a ruling, using an analogy, quite simple, reading an article about a topic in medicine doesn't make one a doctor, anymore than some radio host speaking about a raped woman's injustice is judge, juror or executioner.. Unless you were directly involved with the case, I'd rather be spared the schmaltzy sense of Justice and non-existing self-righteous altruism !

peace
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 12:57 AM
[QUOTE=AvarAllahNoor;910927][
B]Well it'll shed light on the matter....or is everything on the net fabricated...[/B]
I don't know use your best judgement!

Emigrate to to the Panjab, you'll see how Sikhi law is implemented. If you and others want shariah, go to and reside in Sudan, Iran, SA, Qatar, (many others) you'll have laws to live by that meet your criteria....

Gur Fateh
I have no interest in migrating anywhere to see how you imaginary sense of Islamic or sikhi 'law' is being implemented.
I really dislike repeating myself on every post...
any mediocre curricular history book for fifth graders can already establish for you dissolution of the caliphate and, pan-Arabism, secular rulings through out the Muslim world.
Precisely the reason, most people are screaming to bring back the caliphate is due to the sort of injustice that runs rampant in those places!

cheers
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 01:01 AM
Why are they not?
Reply

Heera Singh
02-08-2008, 01:01 AM
1- there is no Islamic state anywhere currently in the world implenting shari3a law
there are countries that refer to or implement Sharia Law in some cases, aren't they? For example, the rape case about 6 or 7 months back.

Is the statement of a woman who has been raped to provide 4 male witnesses to prove her innocence, a wrong one?
Reply

aamirsaab
02-08-2008, 11:11 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Heera Singh
there are countries that refer to or implement Sharia Law in some cases, aren't they? For example, the rape case about 6 or 7 months back.

Is the statement of a woman who has been raped to provide 4 male witnesses to prove her innocence, a wrong one?
Yes it is wrong. You don't need a witness for a rape case - the victim is the important aspect here. Only in adultery cases are witnesses required but that is another matter. As I have stated many times before, common sense runs throughout the rulings and law system of Islam. Unfortunately, not every muslim country is run by people with common sense. Hence we get stupid cases with even stupider end results.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 11:23 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by snakelegs
i don't really see the big deal here. i think in new york, jews have their own courts for stuff like the above and it hasn't hurt anybody.
Do they have stoning to death?

Do the women cover from head-to-toe? (I have no problem with the Hijab, as Sikh women too are told to cover the head with veil or Dastaar/turban - But it bans the covering of the face (purdah) as Dhan Guru Amar Das Ji Mahraaj said it shows the women to be inferior)
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 11:25 AM
BTW PA - Isn't the shariah based on the hadiths? then this isn't what was revealed by Angel Gabriel, it's the sayings and doings of Muhammed. It's not the word of God?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 11:41 AM
Also, how do you plan to implement it, when the Shia don't follow the Sunni version? You have internal disputes over it allready. EG: Nikah Mut'ah (for Shia) Nikah just for Sunnis. It's impossible.
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 11:46 AM
What would you do in cases of apostasy?

See this can go on and on. It's best to leave things as they are, because nobody will benefit from shariah. Obey the laws of this country please.
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 12:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
What would you do in cases of apostasy?

See this can go on and on. It's best to leave things as they are, because nobody will benefit from shariah. Obey the laws of this country please.
Obey the laws of this country,where teenagers are alcoholics peadophilles get locked up for few years and they are told go hunt some more kids,where mothers leave they children behind at home and hit the night clubs and then get drunk and get rapped why because she was wearing a mini skirt ,obey the laws eh? im tired of switchin on the telly in the morning and to see the jeremy kyle show dealing with all sorts of problem from family disputes ,cheating,incest and yeah thats the british law for u SON!

there's no control,no shame,no decency and no nothing
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 01:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Obey the laws of this country,where teenagers are alcoholics peadophilles get locked up for few years and they are told go hunt some more kids,where mothers leave they children behind at home and hit the night clubs and then get drunk and get rapped why because she was wearing a mini skirt ,obey the laws eh? im tired of switchin on the telly in the morning and to see the jeremy kyle show dealing with all sorts of problem from family disputes ,cheating,incest and yeah thats the british law for u SON!

there's no control,no shame,no decency and no nothing
How silly of me, forgive my insolence...

The above mentioned things NEVER take place in any of the Muslim countries. I mean you NEVER hear of any Muslims being hung, amputated, lashed, or sentenced to death or even sent to jail in Muslim states, BECAUSE my word shariah law is such a deterrent!!!
:argue:
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 01:36 PM
The day shariah is allowed here will be the day hell freezes over! YOU HEAR ME!! MUHAHAHAHAHA...HA....MU...HA...
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 02:01 PM
ok avarallahnoor i dont wanna cause a fuss u stick with what u think and il stick with mine
Reply

aamirsaab
02-08-2008, 02:37 PM
:sl:
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
BTW PA - Isn't the shariah based on the hadiths? then this isn't what was revealed by Angel Gabriel, it's the sayings and doings of Muhammed. It's not the word of God?
Sharia is based on Quran, Hadith and sunnah. So it is in laymans terms the word of God with the execution of the Prophet [saw].

There should only be one justice/legal/law system in a country. Having more in one country creates confusion, especially with sharia law as it is quite different to the norm.
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 02:44 PM
the archbishop of canterbury knows the sharia is the best law appropriate for britain other wise he would have not said anything
Reply

guyabano
02-08-2008, 02:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Obey the laws of this country,where teenagers are alcoholics peadophilles get locked up for few years and they are told go hunt some more kids,where mothers leave they children behind at home and hit the night clubs and then get drunk and get rapped why because she was wearing a mini skirt ,obey the laws eh? im tired of switchin on the telly in the morning and to see the jeremy kyle show dealing with all sorts of problem from family disputes ,cheating,incest and yeah thats the british law for u SON!

there's no control,no shame,no decency and no nothing

You are generalizing people. Not everybody is like that. Sure, there is a decadency in west Countries, but obviously, you didn't travel around a lot to know about that topic. Not all teenies are like that !
Middle East countries are no way better. You think it is nice to hear when muslim teachers teach the pupils to slaughter Zionists, kill all unbelievers or when some little girls make statements like 'I wanna be a suicide bomber when I'm grown up'. ?
According to your words, you must not be very old else you would not make such silly comments.
Sharia law is NO solution and west countries will never tolerate that. And believe it or not, the muslims I know personally here in my country, neither !

Da !

Peace
Reply

Isambard
02-08-2008, 02:56 PM
The guy is an idiot. In his own words, he believes it to be a form of appeasement which historically has always worked so well...*rollseyes*

As mentioned before, if you wasnt shariah-based law system, off you to middle-eastern countries. I see no reason why one minority should be granted an entire court/law system (paid for out of everyone's pocket) and not give every single either minority the same deal.
Reply

Cognescenti
02-08-2008, 03:00 PM
Historical question:

Where and for how long has Sharia been assiduously applied (according to universal agreement among Muslim scholars)?
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 03:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
OK avarallahnoor i dont wanna cause a fuss u stick with what u think and il stick with mine
What no fuss?! Why ever not?? I like a lively thread....
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 03:03 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
You are generalizing people. Not everybody is like that. Sure, there is a decadency in west Countries, but obviously, you didn't travel around a lot to know about that topic. Not all teenies are like that !
Middle East countries are no way better. You think it is nice to hear when muslim teachers teach the pupils to slaughter Zionists, kill all unbelievers or when some little girls make statements like 'I wanna be a suicide bomber when I'm grown up'. ?
According to your words, you must not be very old else you would not make such silly comments.
Sharia law is NO solution and west countries will never tolerate that. And believe it or not, the muslims I know personally here in my country, neither !

Da !

Peace
Cmon!! the majority of the teenagers have no control,if u disagree thats fine but why is it that everyday on the news underage drinking is mentioned why is the government not acting up,
and as for the muslim teachers telling the youngsters to slaughter zionists or what ever, i was in a muslim school in the middle east for 12 year and i cant remember a teacher telling me kill those unbelievers and 12 years is alot in fact the closest thing they said was do not imitate the unbeilevers and stick close to ur religion.
About the sharia law not being the solution u maybe right it probably wouldn't work ppl are to attached to theyr so called buzzing life of chilling out as they say

peace
Reply

Isambard
02-08-2008, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Historical question:

Where and for how long has Sharia been assiduously applied (according to universal agreement among Muslim scholars)?
Duh, thats easy! Everyone knows whomever doesnt agree with the largest group's version of shariah are really apostates and should be put to death. See, a perfect system!:D
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 03:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
The archbishop of canterbury knows the sharia is the best law appropriate for britain other wise he would have not said anything
Hitler had a thought too, look what happened...

Archie needs to trim those eyebrows of his though!
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-08-2008, 03:20 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
the archbishop of canterbury knows the sharia is the best law appropriate for britain other wise he would have not said anything
You sem to have misinterpret him.
All he said was that mulims living in Britain ought to be allowed to solve certain issues in a muslim/shariah way.
the New York orthodox jewish community's got similar privileges.

I myself have mixed feelings on the issue..
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 03:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You sem to have misinterpret him.
All he said was that mulims living in Britain ought to be allowed to solve certain issues in a muslim/shariah way.
the New York orthodox jewish community's got similar privileges.

I myself have mixed feelings on the issue..
"Dr Williams argues that adopting some aspects of Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion".

Thank you
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-08-2008, 03:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
"Dr Williams argues that adopting some aspects of Sharia law would help maintain social cohesion".

Thank you
"For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court."

Thank you
Reply

Cognescenti
02-08-2008, 03:42 PM
Perhaps as some form of compromise, female Muslim jurors could be allowed to wear a burkha so they could listen to Menudo during the testimony.

That kind of thing. Start with the harmless stuff.

Yes, I know Sharia doesn't really dictate a burkha.
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
"For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court."

Thank you
Yes thats right but it would also be beneficial to the non-muslims too why not eh the current system is failing anyway

"Dr Williams seems to be suggesting that there should be two systems of law, running alongside each other, almost parallel, and for people to be offered the choice of opting into one or the other"

they think itsunacceptable what do you think

Thank you
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-08-2008, 03:58 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Yes thats right but it would also be beneficial to the non-muslims too why not eh the current system is failing anyway

"Dr Williams seems to be suggesting that there should be two systems of law, running alongside each other, almost parallel, and for people to be offered the choice of opting into one or the other"

they think itsunacceptable what do you think

Thank you
I think it is acceptable, as long as it doesn't go against the British law. Minorities should be allowed to solve some of their legal problems in their way, however tehy should not be allowed to hurt apostates, marry more than one eprson or somwething similar.
The problem is, that once a certain group gets its own courts, more and more minorities will demand special treatment and once they receieve it, they will demand more and more privileges, which can eventually lead to anarchy...
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 04:01 PM
Pandoras box my children, Pandoras box!
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-08-2008, 04:05 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I think it is acceptable, as long as it doesn't go against the British law. Minorities should be allowed to solve some of their legal problems in their way, however tehy should not be allowed to hurt apostates, marry more than one eprson or somwething similar.
The problem is, that once a certain group gets its own courts, more and more minorities will demand special treatment and once they receieve it, they will demand more and more privileges, which can eventually lead to anarchy...
Yeah Your spot on but i feel as though ur abit skeptical but skeptiscm runs in your blood afterall u are an agnostic :coolious:but thats ok because ur a considerate person getting respect from me shouldnt be an issue:thankyou:
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 04:18 PM
[QUOTE=Heera Singh;910956]
there are countries that refer to or implement Sharia Law in some cases, aren't they? For example, the rape case about 6 or 7 months back.
Which countries are those?

Is the statement of a woman who has been raped to provide 4 male witnesses to prove her innocence, a wrong one?
I don't know anything about that case!
Do you know everything about Edwin Salusiano VS.philippine national bank?
Do you know if justice was carried out?
Do you think it fair in a secular law to let someone like Jesse Timmendequas to get away literally with pedophilia, rape and murder under secular law? http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/...lty/index.html
have you done a comparative study on secular law vs Shari3a law?
One thing I despise is hypocrisy and an innate need for self-righteous clangorous humbug!

cheers
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-08-2008, 04:24 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Yeah Your spot on but i feel as though ur abit skeptical but skeptiscm runs in your blood afterall u are an agnostic :coolious:but thats ok because ur a considerate person getting respect from me shouldnt be an issue:thankyou:
It's good to be skeptical sometimes.
:)
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 04:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
BTW PA - Isn't the shariah based on the hadiths? then this isn't what was revealed by Angel Gabriel, it's the sayings and doings of Muhammed. It's not the word of God?
Do you just makeup crap as you go along? I have already told you, and given you quite an expansive list of books that cover shari3a law..
exactly what are you comparing here (bracelet, and a comb and a dagger) to state law? where do you draw the assimilation-- this isn't comparative religion.. Fact is out of your own country woman's admission, you have no laws to run a govt. in sikhism. This isn't about what you believe is true or untrue of Islam. A sound political state. economic system, social structure was established well before your gurus got the idea that to be religious is to wear a bracelet and carry a knife. I don't want to turn this into a my religion is better than yours for reasons personal to me. Try to formulate educated questions before spreading yourself too thin all over the place!


Also, how do you plan to implement it, when the Shia don't follow the Sunni version? You have internal disputes over it allready. EG: Nikah Mut'ah (for Shia) Nikah just for Sunnis. It's impossible.
90% of Muslims are sunni.. just like when you vote here in the good ole U.S, the vote of the majority rules.. sure there maybe a littlemore than 49% of the country unhappy with outcome of the election they are still governed by dubya, while the rest try to highlight his nonexisting accolades.. Stop being a hypocrite.. further more citing something like an illegal marriage for sexual solicitation as the crux of your argument.. aren't you ashamed?


What would you do in cases of apostasy?

See this can go on and on. It's best to leave things as they are, because nobody will benefit from shariah. Obey the laws of this country please.
Laws of apostacy are listed in this forum, http://www.islamicboard.com/refutati...-apostasy.html and not subject to your whim, what you think they ought to be or are! you want to know when and how they are carried out, pls use your search engine.. in this country you receive the death penalty for betraying the state.. ever heard of ethyl and Julius rosenberg? Understand how shari3a works before spewing crap or guessing at how it works! Many apostates were let free by prophet Mohammed SAW himself.. you may refrence link provided!


p.s
I haven't got all day to waste on this nonesense... pls. either ask educated questions or use the search engine properly understand some aspects of the law before speaking for or against it!


cheers
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 04:41 PM
Do you just makeup crap as you go along? I have already told you, and given you quite an expansive list of books that cover shari3a law..
exactly what are you comparing here (bracelet, and a comb and a dagger) to state law? where do you drive the assimilation?
What makes you think you can even introduce such a thing if it's not even in practice anywhere else!

90% of Muslims are sunni.. just like when you vote here in the good ole U.S, the vote of the majority rules.. sure there maybe a littlemore than 49% of the country unhappy with outcome of the election they are still governed by dubya, while the rest try to highlight his nonexisting accolades.. Stop being a hypocrite.. further more citing something like an illegal marriage for sexual solicitation as the crux of your argument.. aren't you ashamed?
Shia don't count then...

I haven't got all day to waste on this nonesense... either ask educated questions or use the search engine properly understand some aspects of the law before speaking for or against it!
Well who appointed you to answer questions you obviously can't!
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 04:45 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I think it is acceptable, as long as it doesn't go against the British law. Minorities should be allowed to solve some of their legal problems in their way, however tehy should not be allowed to hurt apostates, marry more than one eprson or somwething similar.
The problem is, that once a certain group gets its own courts, more and more minorities will demand special treatment and once they receieve it, they will demand more and more privileges, which can eventually lead to anarchy...
You can't carry shari3a in a non-islamic state according to my understanding.. fact is, I believe people carry out shari3a if at all, when it comes to matters of marriage, the Muslim world in its entirety carries out secular laws, whether or not those laws make sense for them as individuals...

Fact of the matter is and already established, no other religion save for Judaism runs by what can be likened to a sharia system, I don't see what other people could possibly demand? .. I am not arguing for England to carry shari3a law, I don't think the two can co-exist except perhaps on minor matters if at all.. I don't think any secular state has sane laws, it is a matter of how just those carrying it behave! I don't know enough about the law in general make a judgement.....And don't see how anyone else on this board can? Perhaps Muezzein can since he is a lawyer from what I gather.. but I still don't know if he studied Islamic shari3a law in the process!

cheers
Reply

minaz
02-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Within watching the first few seconds of this issue on the news, I thought of someone creating a thread on LI (this might be because i thought quickly or maybe because i am turning into an LI geek!) Anywho I thought there would be a good debate upon it, and there was- to begin with. If people (you know who you are!) want to debate, no argue as what we have seen on this thread about religion then make another thread, as its overiding this one and taking it off topic. (as much as i laugh at reading amusing but petty words!)

Back on topic, a good array of views have been put forward, thus i need not say more.
Reply

Heera Singh
02-08-2008, 05:50 PM
wow, eve... why so much anger towards me? (thats what i'm pickin up... if i'm wrong then pardon me)

format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
Which countries are those?
- pakistan
- afghanistan
- saudi arabia
- sudan
- iran

just to name a few...

I'm not saying these countries are RUN with sharia law, but they do use it/refer to it quite often...

Do you know everything about Edwin Salusiano VS.philippine national bank?
Do you know if justice was carried out?
Do you think it fair in a secular law to let someone like Jesse Timmendequas to get away literally with pedophilia, rape and murder under secular law? http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/...lty/index.html
have you done a comparative study on secular law vs Shari3a law?
No, i don't know about the case... and yes western law is also not perfect... never have i ever said that western law is perfect.. and no i haven't done a study

One thing I despise is hypocrisy and an innate need for self-righteous clangorous humbug!
hypocraisy? of what? ^o) i just asked a simple question... and gave my few comments.. u seem to be very angry at me for some reason..

format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
exactly what are you comparing here (bracelet, and a comb and a dagger) to state law? where do you draw the assimilation-- this isn't comparative religion.. Fact is out of your own country woman's admission, you have no laws to run a govt. in sikhism. This isn't about what you believe is true or untrue of Islam. A sound political state. economic system, social structure was established well before your gurus got the idea that to be religious is to wear a bracelet and carry a knife. I don't want to turn this into a my religion is better than yours for reasons personal to me.
okay.. that was taken where it did not need to be taken.. you've jus disrespected our entire faith with that comment... please be more aware in the future... that wasn't appreciated..

and for ur information, carrying these articles of faith don't make a person religious, its following the tenats of these articles, and following the faith... so before u make comments about this, u shud take ur own advice and learn about these things before u speak...

Bless!
Reply

AvarAllahNoor
02-08-2008, 06:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Welcome to LI :D Whatever you value will be denigrated...unless it is Islam, of course. :thankyou:
Well to be perfectly honest, PA and me have messaged each other on here talking about Sikhism. And we respect each other, but lately she's just being very pernicious for no apparent reason! Not sure if it's down to her being ill last week or not....

More popcorn...?
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 06:46 PM
[QUOTE=Heera Singh;911125]
wow, eve... why so much anger towards me? (thats what i'm pickin up... if i'm wrong then pardon me)


- pakistan
- afghanistan
- saudi arabia
- sudan
- iran

just to name a few...
lol.. you are funny.. better do some research, monarchy and dictatorship doesn't run by a shura system nor governs under the laws of shri3a...

I'm not saying these countries are RUN with sharia law, but they do use it/refer to it quite often...
They don't!

No, i don't know about the case... and yes western law is also not perfect... never have i ever said that western law is perfect.. and no i haven't done a study
Then why gauge in a subject of which you have no knowledge?


hypocraisy? of what? ^o) i just asked a simple question... and gave my few comments.. u seem to be very angry at me for some reason..
Perhaps you should re-read your 'simple questions/accusations' therein might lie your answers!



okay.. that was taken where it did not need to be taken.. you've jus disrespected our entire faith with that comment... please be more aware in the future... that wasn't appreciated..
neither are your comments, in fact I tend to reply exactly as warrnted by the other party!

and for ur information, carrying these articles of faith don't make a person religious, its following the tenats of these articles, and following the faith... so before u make comments about this, u shud take ur own advice and learn about these things before u speak...

Bless!
What does carrying articles, 'being religious' have to do with laws and jurisprudence-- I am really at a loss of why you folks keep bringing basic tenets of your religion to hilight how you'd have to be accomadated or as subject of comparison or even ridicule.. it is like me saying after Hajj men have to shave their head and women have to cut a piece of their hair to mark the end of pilgrimage.. what does that have to do with the law? or the courts? It is a basic ritual of your religion.. please the lot of you try to stay on track so we are not digressing all over the place..

cheers
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 06:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Welcome to LI :D Whatever you value will be denigrated...unless it is Islam, of course. :thankyou:
your views are 'denigrated' because you are a bucolic country oaf, who couldn't even read EKG's in his alleged area of his expertise yet sees it fit to judge, people, religions, actions, politicses, somehow a 'cognoscente' if you can actually learn to spell it correctly, on all the intricacies that lie therein


This is turning into a serious food fight. I nevr realized how much fun it is to sit back and watch. :statisfie
careful lest you end up in a state of obstipation!

cheers
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 07:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
It's called a FORUM, What else should take place here! Questions are asked, and usually a competent person would give the appropriate answer...
That is fair enough.. Short of articles already written on the subject matter, I don't see how one way or the other you can argue for or against Islamic jurisprudence!



Why go on about it then!
[/QUOTE]
Why do you? I'd like one day to see the caliphate system implemented and that I will defend! I don't think England is the place to foster it nor is it the proper time, or place! Insha'Allah when the time and circumstances are correct it will be enforced.. I don't see how it impacts you one way or the other, even if it were as obviousely it would be something applied only to Muslims.. if a Muslim commits a white collar crime, he'd have to be punished in accorance with Islamic laws that deal with his crime.. how does this apply to a sikh?

And Sikh laws are not about Kirpans and Combs!! How dare you!
You and your fellow country woman have already stated, no such governing laws exist within sikhism.. hence I ask, how is it that you'd like to be accomadated in England in a judiciary fashion? You are arguing against and for something that doesn't exist as far as your religion is concerned and in no way can foster or meet the needs of your community!

I am done with this!


cheers
Reply

The_Prince
02-08-2008, 07:54 PM
i made a video about this SHARIA issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAxJM2xzMm4

enjoy.
Reply

Cognescenti
02-08-2008, 09:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
your views are 'denigrated' because you are a bucolic country oaf, who couldn't even read EKG's in his alleged area of his expertise yet sees it fit to judge, people, religions, actions, politicses, somehow a 'cognoscente' if you can actually learn to spell it correctly, on all the intricacies that lie therein
I wasn't directly referring to you. It is really the pervasive anti-Americansim around here that is the most entertaining.

But, since you brought it up, I am actually an expert fly fisherman, if I do say so myself. I don't know about the oaf part.

Yes, the EKG's with the 1/2 pixel P-waves and the 3 beat run of V-tach tach you didn't give me credit for...they were fun. We should do that again some time.

As I said before "Cognescenti" isn't Italian, it's a line of Nike shoes. I was wearing them when I signed up for the forum.

BTW, when you are done insulting the Sikhs, why don't you post that cool picture of Jesus emerging from the hindquarters of a dog.

Cheers
Reply

Cognescenti
02-08-2008, 09:35 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
i made a video about this SHARIA issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAxJM2xzMm4

enjoy.
Hey Prince...pretty good Eastender accent (or is it Liverpudlian?)....at least to American ears.

The announcer voice seems forced, however, and the effects of the writer's strike are all to evident. Good sound quality.
Reply

snakelegs
02-08-2008, 09:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Do they have stoning to death?

Do the women cover from head-to-toe? (I have no problem with the Hijab, as Sikh women too are told to cover the head with veil or Dastaar/turban - But it bans the covering of the face (purdah) as Dhan Guru Amar Das Ji Mahraaj said it shows the women to be inferior)
of course not (though this is where the practice comes from originally)
but certain civil matters can be settled in a rabbinical court - of course it is voluntary and nothing can be against the laws of the land.

orthodox jewish women also cover.
Reply

snakelegs
02-08-2008, 09:48 PM
For example, Muslims could choose to have marital disputes or financial matters dealt with in a Sharia court
this is a far cry from implementing shariah in the u.k., isn't it?
again, it raises interesting questions, since jews have rabbinical courts...
i'm not saying that i support it - i just don't thing there is any reason to freak out (as i would at the idea of shariah being imposed in my country) because no one is about that.
Reply

جوري
02-08-2008, 10:07 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I wasn't directly referring to you. It is really the pervasive anti-Americansim around here that is the most entertaining.
When you are pervasively anti-islamic, you are sure to incite the 'anti-Americansim'

But, since you brought it up, I am actually an expert fly fisherman, if I do say so myself. I don't know about the oaf part.
really good to know.. You'll never go hungry!

Yes, the EKG's with the 1/2 pixel P-waves and the 3 beat run of V-tach tach you didn't give me credit for...they were fun. We should do that again some time.
I have better things to waste my free time on, the 'funning' with you!

As I said before "Cognescenti" isn't Italian, it's a line of Nike shoes. I was wearing them when I signed up for the forum.
:haha: that is funny.. thanks for the chuckle!

BTW, when you are done insulting the Sikhs, why don't you post that cool picture of Jesus emerging from the hindquarters of a dog.

Cheers
You may simply google the many 'miracle sighting of Jesus'.. you may never know where he'll show up next?.. You may also fwd your wonderement, praise and thanks to your fellow gospelers and evangelists for finding your God practcally anywhere and everywhere!

cheers
Reply

czgibson
02-08-2008, 10:29 PM
Greetings,

This whole debate reminds me of the taqwacore (or Islamic punk) band The Kominas' fab single "Shariah Law in the USA". Those guys rock.

I'm still in two minds about the Archbishop's comments, though. Obviously, the UK is never going to adopt shariah law in its entirety; anyone who thinks otherwise is truly living in fantasy-land. However, I for one don't see anything wrong with adopting certain aspects of shariah law in the UK.

For example, look at the current situation with divorce: if a Muslim couple want to get a divorce via an Islamic court, they can do so, but it won't be recognised by UK law. What would be wrong with changing that?

I think that's the kind of thing Williams was suggesting. I find his reputation for being "an intellectual" completely baffling in general, but I think it's possible he has a point here.

Peace
Reply

Cognescenti
02-08-2008, 10:32 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Eve Persephone
..You may simply google the many 'miracle sighting of Jesus'.. you may never know where he'll show up next?.. You may also fwd your wonderement, praise and thanks to your fellow gospelers and evangelists for finding your God practcally anywhere and everywhere!

cheers
There you have it. Heera...don't take it personally. It isn't really an anti-Sikh crowd here. Thre is plenty of hatred to go around.
Reply

The_Prince
02-08-2008, 11:14 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Hey Prince...pretty good Eastender accent (or is it Liverpudlian?)....at least to American ears.

The announcer voice seems forced, however, and the effects of the writer's strike are all to evident. Good sound quality.
:D nothing was written down, just SPUR of the moment, i made another serious video but the sound was bad, so then i deleted that and then just did this one....everything came in at the top of my head......:shade:
Reply

Intisar
02-08-2008, 11:17 PM
Yeah, I'm going to close this. :thankyou:

EDIT: A member has sincerely asked me to re-open this thread.

Any insults, spam, or off-topic posts, and this thread is subject to an immediate closure. Take heed of this guys. It becomes unfair for other members who want to join in a healthy debate about world affairs, and all of a sudden an interesting thread is closed. So...be mindful of other members as well.
Reply

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