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Muezzin
02-13-2008, 01:53 PM
JAN M. OLSEN

Associated Press

February 13, 2008

COPENHAGEN -- Danish authorities arrested three people yesterday suspected of plotting a cartoonist's assassination for his depiction of the Prophet Mohammed wearing a bomb-shaped turban that enraged Muslims two years ago.

Three of Denmark's largest newspapers said they would reprint the cartoon today to show they would not be intimidated by fanatics. It was one of 12 Mohammed cartoons published in 2005 and then again in 2006 that led to protests in Muslim countries.

In the uproar that followed, Danes watched in disbelief as angry mobs burned their flag and attacked their country's embassies in Muslim countries including Syria, Iran and Lebanon. Danish products were boycotted in several Muslim countries.

Jyllands-Posten initially refused to apologize for the cartoons, which the newspaper said it published in reaction to perceived self-censorship among artists dealing with Islamic issues, but later said it regretted that the cartoons had offended Muslims.

Investigators said they foiled the assassination plot in its early stages in a predawn raid in the western Denmark city of Aarhus. The police intelligence agency, PET, said two Tunisians and a Danish citizen of Moroccan origin were arrested.

"The case shows that, unfortunately, there are in Denmark groups of extremists that do not accept and respect the basic principles on which the Danish democracy has been built," Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen said.

Yesterday's arrests were meant "to prevent a terror-related assassination of one of the cartoonists behind the cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed," PET chief Jakob Scharf said. Investigators believe the plot had not advanced far enough to try the suspects.

Chief Scharf said the 40-year-old Danish suspect faced a preliminary charge of violating a Danish terrorism law, but will likely be released after questioning. The two Tunisians will be expelled from Denmark, he said. He did not name the intended target, but Jyllands-Posten said it was the paper's cartoonist, Kurt Westergaard.

Mr. Westergaard, 73, drew one of the 12 Mohammed caricatures that were first published on Sept. 30, 2005, and then reprinted by other Western media early in 2006.

Source

This whole affair shows that human nature, be it to goad and provoke or to grossly and violently overreact, is the silliest cartoon of all.
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Al-Zaara
02-13-2008, 02:12 PM
Ah, I knew this would happen.

They are just prooving the wrong things with this action. Freedom of speech. It can be good, bad and oh so easily abused.

"The case shows that, unfortunately, there are in Denmark groups of extremists that do not accept and respect the basic principles on which the Danish democracy has been built,"
And one of them is making the same mistake twice? Just great. Go Denmark!

*sigh*
Reply

krypton6
02-13-2008, 02:24 PM
Yesterday the picture was printed on the frontpage of a famous danish newspaper.
The 3 men suspected of planing the killing are 1 danish guy and 2 guys from Yemen, the've bin kicked out of Denmark and the last guy will probably not be charged due to the lack of evidence found.

They keep talking about freedom of speech yet forgetting the blasphemy part that is also a part of the danish law system.

Noone should be suprised if a bomb happend to blow of somewhere in Denmark in the near furture.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-13-2008, 02:24 PM
Being a Muslim myself, I am ashamed that some Muslims would do such a thing and take law into their own hands. This is indeed the work of WEAK Muslims who get angry easily.

The Prophet (PBUH) said: A strong man is not he who defeats his adversary by wrestling, but a strong man is he who controls himself at the time of anger.

Indeed, I am disgusted by what the cartoonists did. It's a disgrace that people would let it go by calling it "freedom of expression" or even worse "criticism". I think people who can't differentiate between criticism and "insults" are idiots. I do believe in dialog and debate but such a thing is a direct provocation and shows how morally dead are the cartoonists and people who back them. I'm not sure how these people will behave when someone draw their mothers naked being screwed by another man. Maybe that would be "freedom of speech/expression" as well.

I am not sure how depicting Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as a terrorist or womanizer helpful. Anyway, The Prophet was continuously berated, reviled, and denigrated. The Qur'an has documented in several verses the different accusations that were leveled at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Some of these charges, which probably mainly came from the polytheistic Arabs, accused Muhammad of basing the Qur'an on confused dreams; making it up; and being merely a poet, a madman, or a soothsayer:

Nay! They (the disbelievers) say: "[The Qur'an is] Medleys of dreams; nay! he has made it up; nay! he is a poet. So let him bring to us a sign as the former [prophets] were sent with" (21.5).

And they (the disbelievers) say: "O you [Muhammad] to whom the Remembrance (the Qur'an) has been revealed! You are a madman" (15.6).

Therefore continue [O Muhammad!] to remind; for by the grace of your Lord, you are not a soothsayer or a madman (52.29).

Yet, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an that told the Prophet or Muslims in general to respond to the accusers with any form of violence. If only Muslims could control their anger and behave like strong Muslims.

The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said to us: When one of you becomes angry while standing, he should sit down. If the anger leaves him, well and good; otherwise he should lie down.
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Well in fact nearly all danish newspapers have lined together and printed the cartoons on their frontpages.

How can you not do something about this? They talk about freedom of speech but as some one else said here, what if a picture of the danish queen screwing a man is printed on every newspaper on the globe, wouldnt they be mad then? What if it was a picture of their own mothers screwing a man, wouldnt they start doing some serius harm to the people printed it.
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Suomipoika
02-13-2008, 02:36 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
How can you not do something about this? They talk about freedom of speech but as some one else said here, what if a picture of the danish queen screwing a man is printed on every newspaper on the globe, wouldnt they be mad then? What if it was a picture of their own mothers screwing a man, wouldnt they start doing some serius harm to the people printed it.
No.

Infact our mothers (and sisters and daughters) are insulted and ridiculed as cheap and fornicating prostitutes on just about every islamic board Ive visited just because they choose to live and dress differently as muslim women. Havent heard of violent reaction because of that yet.
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aamirsaab
02-13-2008, 02:56 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
No.

Infact our mothers (and sisters and daughters) are insulted and ridiculed as cheap and fornicating prostitutes on just about every islamic board Ive visited just because they choose to live and dress differently as muslim women. Havent heard of violent reaction because of that yet.
That is disgusting to hear and am glad that there has not been any violence because of it. No benefit has come from this alleged point of freedom of speech. It has just turned people into anti-islamic and anti-danish lunatics who use freedom of speech to cause injustice as opposed to speaking out against it (which is partly the point of freedom of speech!).

I'm glad that those who were plotting to kill the cartoonist were arrested - we should rise above the taunts and show the true meanings of Islam.
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 03:11 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
No.

Infact our mothers (and sisters and daughters) are insulted and ridiculed as cheap and fornicating prostitutes on just about every islamic board Ive visited just because they choose to live and dress differently as muslim women. Havent heard of violent reaction because of that yet.
Talking is a whole another thing, but pictures speak differently.

If a picture of your mother screwing a man was printed on the front page of newspaper wouldnt you do something about it? If not then there is something wrong with you.

When have anyone insultued your daughters, sisters and mothers for dressing differently? It is in fact people like you have have insulted Islam and how muslim woman dress and in return some muslims critisize the way that woman dress in the west, but insult? Naah..
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The_Prince
02-13-2008, 03:18 PM
lets stop attacking these Muslim brothers who were arrested because they are going to be FREED soon since there is no evidence.

this whole incident was a LIE and SHAM just to create more problems for the Muslim community.
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MTAFFI
02-13-2008, 03:20 PM
With the exception of one, it is good to see a repulsion for this sort of violence and stupidityhmmm5 thanks for the quotes :)
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The_Prince
02-13-2008, 03:22 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
No.

Infact our mothers (and sisters and daughters) are insulted and ridiculed as cheap and fornicating prostitutes on just about every islamic board Ive visited just because they choose to live and dress differently as muslim women. Havent heard of violent reaction because of that yet.
well im not trying to be smart here, or condone what they said. but in the west being a prostitute is legal in many places, and fornication is also legal, and many do do it, it isnt something seen as bad or disgusting. so would calling western women prostitutes and fornicators consistute an insult or simply false claims?

i say it is simply false claims, not insults, because as i repeat according to westerners fornicating and so on isnt something bad, hence how can it be an insult when someone calls your a fornicating person? it is a mere false claim if you dont fornicate, nothing more, and nothing less.
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Keltoi
02-13-2008, 03:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
well im not trying to be smart here, or condone what they said. but in the west being a prostitute is legal in many places, and fornication is also legal, and many do do it, it isnt something seen as bad or disgusting. so would calling western women prostitutes and fornicators consistute an insult or simply false claims?

i say it is simply false claims, not insults, because as i repeat according to westerners fornicating and so on isnt something bad, hence how can it be an insult when someone calls your a fornicating person? it is a mere false claim if you dont fornicate, nothing more, and nothing less.
You should be a politician...that is better than haggling over what the definition of "is" is.
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The_Prince
02-13-2008, 03:24 PM
Although the news of a plot to kill a cartoonist who drew a lampooning caricature of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) immediately made headlines, little attention was given to the fact they would soon be freed for lack of evidence.
Denmark's intelligence agency PET arrested on Tuesday, February 12, two Tunisians and a Dane of Moroccan origin in the city of Aarhus.

They are accused of plotting to kill Kurt Westergaard, who drew a man described as Prophet Muhammad with a turban that looked like a bomb with a lit fuse.

The drawing, one of twelve commissioned and published by the mass-circulation Jyllands-Posten in 2005, triggered a storm of protests across the Muslim world and strained ties with Muslim countries.

Although the arrests were make after "after lengthy surveillance," PET chief Jakob Scharf admitted they would soon release the Dane and deport the Tunisians over lack of enough evidence to keep them in custody.

He justified that by saying they had to intervene "at a very early phase" because they "didn't want to take any unnecessary risks."

"The Tunisians have been in Denmark for eight years and are married to Danish Muslim women with children," Nidal Abu Arif, editor-in-chief of the Arabic-language Akhbar Denmark website (Akhbar.Dk) told IslamOnline.net over the phone from Copenhagen.

He said the pair will be expelled without court proceedings under the 2002 anti-terror law, which gives police powers to arrest and expel foreigners on suspicion.

But the government's announcement did not set well with many Danish Muslims.

"I think it is all fabricated," Munir Bin Ali, a young Danish Muslim from Aarhus, told Akhbar.Dk.

"It is the easiest thing in Denmark nowadays to concoct charges against Muslims. The charges are always there."

Frenzy


Rasmussen said he was "deeply concerned by these suspicions of a very serious crime."
The plot news made immediate headlines, not only in Denmark but overseas as well, and sparked a frantic reaction from Danes of every stripe.

Premier Anders Fogh Rasmussen expressed deep concerns saying this "demonstrates that there are extremist groups in Denmark that do not recognize or respect the basic principles of society."

"In Denmark, we are free not only to think and speak as we please, but also to draw what we want. And the government will protect this freedom of expression," said in reminiscent tone of his stance during the cartoon crisis.

The Liberal Party added its condemnation.

"An attack against a Danish cartoonist is an attack against Danish democracy," the party's spokeswoman Inger Stoejberg said in a statement.

Jyllands-Posten chief editor Carsten Juste said it was "shameful that a man who is doing his job well and in accordance with Danish law and press ethics is rewarded with demonization and concrete murder threats."

Some newspapers reportedly plan to re-print the offensive cartoon on Wednesday, February 13, in a show of solidarity.

Even Muslim leaders were quick to distance themselves from the "plot" with a torrent of statements and condemnations.

"There is freedom of expression in Denmark…and it doesn't help our cause when some people want to seek out their own form of justice," Kassem Ahmad, the head of the Islamic Community, said in a statement.

"It is very alarming indeed and of course we condemn strongly any one violating Danish laws," Sheikh Radwan Mansour, the imam of a mosque in Aarhus, told Akhbar.Dk.

"But I call on politicians and media outlets not to level impromptu charges before law takes its course to figure out whether these youths were victims of victimizers."

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

no one was planning to kill anyone, end of story.
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Gator
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
well im not trying to be smart here, or condone what they said. but in the west being a prostitute is legal in many places, and fornication is also legal, and many do do it, it isnt something seen as bad or disgusting. so would calling western women prostitutes and fornicators consistute an insult or simply false claims?

i say it is simply false claims, not insults, because as i repeat according to westerners fornicating and so on isnt something bad, hence how can it be an insult when someone calls your a fornicating person? it is a mere false claim if you dont fornicate, nothing more, and nothing less.
So, just to clarify, according to you all women in the West are fornicating prostitutes.

Got it. Buy the way, that would be considered an insult.

Thanks.

See no violence.
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*Hana*
02-13-2008, 03:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Being a Muslim myself, I am ashamed that some Muslims would do such a thing and take law into their own hands. This is indeed the work of WEAK Muslims who get angry easily.

The Prophet (PBUH) said: A strong man is not he who defeats his adversary by wrestling, but a strong man is he who controls himself at the time of anger.

Indeed, I am disgusted by what the cartoonists did. It's a disgrace that people would let it go by calling it "freedom of expression" or even worse "criticism". I think people who can't differentiate between criticism and "insults" are idiots. I do believe in dialog and debate but such a thing is a direct provocation and shows how morally dead are the cartoonists and people who back them. I'm not sure how these people will behave when someone draw their mothers naked being screwed by another man. Maybe that would be "freedom of speech/expression" as well.

I am not sure how depicting Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as a terrorist or womanizer helpful. Anyway, The Prophet was continuously berated, reviled, and denigrated. The Qur'an has documented in several verses the different accusations that were leveled at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Some of these charges, which probably mainly came from the polytheistic Arabs, accused Muhammad of basing the Qur'an on confused dreams; making it up; and being merely a poet, a madman, or a soothsayer:

Nay! They (the disbelievers) say: "[The Qur'an is] Medleys of dreams; nay! he has made it up; nay! he is a poet. So let him bring to us a sign as the former [prophets] were sent with" (21.5).

And they (the disbelievers) say: "O you [Muhammad] to whom the Remembrance (the Qur'an) has been revealed! You are a madman" (15.6).

Therefore continue [O Muhammad!] to remind; for by the grace of your Lord, you are not a soothsayer or a madman (52.29).

Yet, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an that told the Prophet or Muslims in general to respond to the accusers with any form of violence. If only Muslims could control their anger and behave like strong Muslims.

The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said to us: When one of you becomes angry while standing, he should sit down. If the anger leaves him, well and good; otherwise he should lie down.
Salam Alaikum!

Jazak Allah Khair, brother for posting this.

I for one am sick and tired of Muslims that react with violence, disrespect and vandalism to protest violence, disrespect and vandalism, and those that sit on their butts in front of a pc and try to justify it.

There is not ONE word in the Qur'an or hadith that justifies this pathetic behavior and, in fact, it is totally outside the teachings of Islam. Anyone that thinks behaving this way somehow shows the truth and beauty of Islam is way out of line and is contributing to the false image news agencies report.

And, of course, typical response is to exaggerate (like a fornicating mother), which is a ridiculous, disgusting and a pointless analogy, to try to justify one bad behavior for another. If your mother is shown in a picture fornicating, you may have other more important issues to contend with. :embarrass

The poor behavior and choices of a Non-Muslim to disrespect our belief has nothing to do with pornography and should, in no way, effect our lives to the point where we are made to react like savages.

Why don't we hear more screaming and ranting when some Muslims choose to butcher our faith! When they make Islam and Muslims look like intolerant, uneducated barbarians!? Where is THAT outrage??!! Does any Muslim truly believe Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, would encourage that and behave that way?

Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, and His companions endured far more than this and NEVER ONCE behaved in this manner. How can your faith be so incredibly weak that you allow a fake picture drawn by a non-Muslim, or the uneducated words of a non-Muslim bring you so far outside the teachings of Islam. Wallahi, it boggles my mind!

We have to stop behaving like everything is a conspiracy and start taking responsibility for our own bad behavior. If we put as much energy into uniting the Ummah instead of using all that energy to blame everyone else for our division, we might actually progress!

Anyway, that's my rant.

Hana
Reply

Gator
02-13-2008, 03:43 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Well in fact nearly all danish newspapers have lined together and printed the cartoons on their frontpages.

How can you not do something about this? They talk about freedom of speech but as some one else said here, what if a picture of the danish queen screwing a man is printed on every newspaper on the globe, wouldnt they be mad then? What if it was a picture of their own mothers screwing a man, wouldnt they start doing some serius harm to the people printed it.
Are you really this primitive or are you simply a troll?
Reply

*Hana*
02-13-2008, 03:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
well im not trying to be smart here, or condone what they said. but in the west being a prostitute is legal in many places, and fornication is also legal, and many do do it, it isnt something seen as bad or disgusting. so would calling western women prostitutes and fornicators consistute an insult or simply false claims?

i say it is simply false claims, not insults, because as i repeat according to westerners fornicating and so on isnt something bad, hence how can it be an insult when someone calls your a fornicating person? it is a mere false claim if you dont fornicate, nothing more, and nothing less.
Are you saying this doesn't happen in predominately Muslim lands?? I got news for you, brother! It DOES happen. Whether or not you see it in the open is one thing, but just because it is hidden, doesn't mean it doesn't happen!!

Not everyone in the west is running around fornicating and prostituting themselves. Let me tell you something else, someone out prostituting themselves or having multiple sex partners IS seen as inappropriate and disgusting by MANY living in the west!!

Please stop with the generalizations here, brother, and realize all countries have the same issues, it's just that in some countries it is hidden and denied!

Hana
Reply

crayon
02-13-2008, 03:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Being a Muslim myself, I am ashamed that some Muslims would do such a thing and take law into their own hands. This is indeed the work of WEAK Muslims who get angry easily.

The Prophet (PBUH) said: A strong man is not he who defeats his adversary by wrestling, but a strong man is he who controls himself at the time of anger.

Indeed, I am disgusted by what the cartoonists did. It's a disgrace that people would let it go by calling it "freedom of expression" or even worse "criticism". I think people who can't differentiate between criticism and "insults" are idiots. I do believe in dialog and debate but such a thing is a direct provocation and shows how morally dead are the cartoonists and people who back them. I'm not sure how these people will behave when someone draw their mothers naked being screwed by another man. Maybe that would be "freedom of speech/expression" as well.

I am not sure how depicting Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as a terrorist or womanizer helpful. Anyway, The Prophet was continuously berated, reviled, and denigrated. The Qur'an has documented in several verses the different accusations that were leveled at Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). Some of these charges, which probably mainly came from the polytheistic Arabs, accused Muhammad of basing the Qur'an on confused dreams; making it up; and being merely a poet, a madman, or a soothsayer:

Nay! They (the disbelievers) say: "[The Qur'an is] Medleys of dreams; nay! he has made it up; nay! he is a poet. So let him bring to us a sign as the former [prophets] were sent with" (21.5).

And they (the disbelievers) say: "O you [Muhammad] to whom the Remembrance (the Qur'an) has been revealed! You are a madman" (15.6).

Therefore continue [O Muhammad!] to remind; for by the grace of your Lord, you are not a soothsayer or a madman (52.29).

Yet, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an that told the Prophet or Muslims in general to respond to the accusers with any form of violence. If only Muslims could control their anger and behave like strong Muslims.

The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said to us: When one of you becomes angry while standing, he should sit down. If the anger leaves him, well and good; otherwise he should lie down.
Exactly.:sunny:
Reply

MTAFFI
02-13-2008, 04:01 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
Salam Alaikum!

Jazak Allah Khair, brother for posting this.

I for one am sick and tired of Muslims that react with violence, disrespect and vandalism to protest violence, disrespect and vandalism, and those that sit on their butts in front of a pc and try to justify it.

There is not ONE word in the Qur'an or hadith that justifies this pathetic behavior and, in fact, it is totally outside the teachings of Islam. Anyone that thinks behaving this way somehow shows the truth and beauty of Islam is way out of line and is contributing to the false image news agencies report.

And, of course, typical response is to exaggerate (like a fornicating mother), which is a ridiculous, disgusting and a pointless analogy, to try to justify one bad behavior for another. If your mother is shown in a picture fornicating, you may have other more important issues to contend with. :embarrass

The poor behavior and choices of a Non-Muslim to disrespect our belief has nothing to do with pornography and should, in no way, effect our lives to the point where we are made to react like savages.

Why don't we hear more screaming and ranting when some Muslims choose to butcher our faith! When they make Islam and Muslims look like intolerant, uneducated barbarians!? Where is THAT outrage??!! Does any Muslim truly believe Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, would encourage that and behave that way?

Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, and His companions endured far more than this and NEVER ONCE behaved in this manner. How can your faith be so incredibly weak that you allow a fake picture drawn by a non-Muslim, or the uneducated words of a non-Muslim bring you so far outside the teachings of Islam. Wallahi, it boggles my mind!

We have to stop behaving like everything is a conspiracy and start taking responsibility for our own bad behavior. If we put as much energy into uniting the Ummah instead of using all that energy to blame everyone else for our division, we might actually progress!

Anyway, that's my rant.

Hana
I am with you 100%... Great post
Reply

Muezzin
02-13-2008, 04:05 PM
It's definitely good they were arrested, if the allegations are true. Like that nutter who murdered Theo Van Gogh.

Just because somebody says something offensive doesn't give anyone else, whether they're Muslim or non-Muslim, the right to harm or kill them. That's just... insanity.

Would the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) have reacted so? I think not.

EDIT: I thought it would be prudent to add a poll. Whoo-hoo.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-13-2008, 04:11 PM
Why don't we hear more screaming and ranting when some Muslims choose to butcher our faith! When they make Islam and Muslims look like intolerant, uneducated barbarians!? Where is THAT outrage??!! Does any Muslim truly believe Prophet Muhammed, pbuh, would encourage that and behave that way?
Agreed !

although i must say, i hope the ones who contribute to the drawings are either guided or destroyed.


There im done!
Reply

jzcasejz
02-13-2008, 04:15 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
although i must say, i hope the ones who contribute to the drawings are either guided or destroyed.
^ Aameen. May Allaah (SWT) reward you Brother, instead of coming with the same type of replies this thread has seen a million times already, you were the first to say this. Thank you!
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*Hana*
02-13-2008, 04:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
Agreed !

although i must say, i hope the ones who contribute to the drawings are either guided or destroyed.


There im done!
Absolutely agree with you, and either way, it will be as Allah, swt, wills, not as we will. How can we possibly know if the person attacked today would not have been our brother/sister tomorrow.

Excellent point, brother!

Wasalam,
Hana
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Suomipoika
02-13-2008, 04:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Talking is a whole another thing, but pictures speak differently.

If a picture of your mother screwing a man was printed on the front page of newspaper wouldnt you do something about it? If not then there is something wrong with you.
Concidering it was about my mother, I dont think Id have to do anything besides show support to her, she isnt exactly incapable of defending herself.

When have anyone insultued your daughters, sisters and mothers for dressing differently? It is in fact people like you have have insulted Islam and how muslim woman dress and in return some muslims critisize the way that woman dress in the west, but insult? Naah
What people find insulting varies from person to person.

After lurking here for over a year, the one thing that bothers me most are the negative stereotypes about decadent west and western women that are repeated over and over again, sometimes more, and sometimes less obvious. I personally find many of them to be very offensive and insulting.

Its like the danish cartoons, the original publisher see it as valid criticism of islam, while quite a few muslims seem to view it as grave insult.
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Suomipoika
02-13-2008, 04:40 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
No benefit has come from this alleged point of freedom of speech.
Im not really sure I agree there with you.

I'm glad that those who were plotting to kill the cartoonist were arrested - we should rise above the taunts and show the true meanings of Islam.
Because I see this sentiment as pretty big benefit.
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Whatsthepoint
02-13-2008, 06:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
They keep talking about freedom of speech yet forgetting the blasphemy part that is also a part of the danish law system.
True, blasphemy is a punishable offence in Denamark however no one was found guilty of it for over 70 years.
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 06:30 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Its like the danish cartoons, the original publisher see it as valid criticism of islam, while quite a few muslims seem to view it as grave insult.
If it is a criticism that he made to point out that freedom of speech is important then he achieved what he wanted, but why do it again after more than a year? 17 newspapers in Denmark have printed the pictures on the frontpage, is that also criticism?

In Denmark you have freedom of speech but a just as important part of their law system is the blasphemy part! These cartoons brake their own laws yet they deffend it with others.

If a picture of my mother screwing a man was printed on the front page of a global newspaper I would take law into my own hands and deal with the printer myself, reality is though that my mother is nothing compared to the prophet....

What is the point of these cartoons! To make fun of the dearest person in every muslims life! A person deliberately creating conflicts and infernos between the west and the east while at the same time hurting over a billion muslims, should in my opinion be stopped, and if the government is not going to stop him someone or something else will. The question is how will he be stopped?
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 06:33 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
True, blasphemy is a punishable offence in Denamark however no one was found guilty of it for over 70 years.
Christians and Jews have never bin insulted in Denmark, only muslims have.
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Whatsthepoint
02-13-2008, 06:41 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Christians and Jews have never bin insulted in Denmark, only muslims have.
the only person found guilty of blashemy in Denamark was charged of anti-semitism.
Why is it mostly muslims who are insulted? Perhaps it is because they cause a lot of trouble? Or is it because they are the only ones to comit faith-related crimes?
They're immigrants, immigrants are a great insult material, they're different and above all, a lot of them seem to refuse to integrate into the danish society..
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abdullah_001
02-13-2008, 06:51 PM
:sl:
I pray Inshallah that that cartoonist gets his place in jahannam for doing what he did.

:sl:
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Cognescenti
02-13-2008, 07:06 PM
I am pretty sure the Danes see freedom of speech as a core value. They are a secular country. Adherence to ideas of liberty are a unifying, communal understanding for their nation in just the same way that Muslims revere the Prophet.

That may seem silly to you all but clearly something has their hackels up if the cartoon is being republished.

If you want McCain to get elected...keep it up. If you want the Danes to purposely taunt you, keep it up. If you want right wing parties to come to power in France, keep it up. If you want controls over Muslims in europe keep it up. If you want to unite the West like they have never been united..keep it up.

Send some nutbar to kill that Dutch filmaker..that should help. Dont forget the Pope and Rushide (in no particular order)
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 07:10 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
the only person found guilty of blashemy in Denamark was charged of anti-semitism.
Yeah back in world war 2!?

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Why is it mostly muslims who are insulted? Perhaps it is because they cause a lot of trouble? Or is it because they are the only ones to comit faith-related crimes?

They're immigrants, immigrants are a great insult material, they're different and above all, a lot of them seem to refuse to integrate into the danish society..
No because muslims are different! Most "christians" barely know anything about the Bible and the same with Jews while most muslims know their religion quite well. They cannot accept the Hijab that muslim woman wear!
They cannot accept the fact that muslim woman do not wear western clothes! They cannot accept the fact that muslim men do not handshake with woman! They cannot accept the fact that muslims only eat Halal meat, and the fact that they do not drink alcohol! And I could go on for ever

In order for muslims to be accepted by the danish they have to give up on their religion, muslims refuse to do so! If they cannot accept the fact that muslims will not give up on their religion, they might aswell just ban muslims from Denmark but they wont because they are afraid.

And besides that, 1/3-4 of Denmark are fascists so no wonder they hate muslims so much.
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MTAFFI
02-13-2008, 07:18 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
If it is a criticism that he made to point out that freedom of speech is important then he achieved what he wanted, but why do it again after more than a year? 17 newspapers in Denmark have printed the pictures on the frontpage, is that also criticism?
Who cares, Allah (swt) will deal with them accordingly

format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
In Denmark you have freedom of speech but a just as important part of their law system is the blasphemy part! These cartoons brake their own laws yet they deffend it with others.
Who are you to judge according to Danish laws?
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
If a picture of my mother screwing a man was printed on the front page of a global newspaper I would take law into my own hands and deal with the printer myself, reality is though that my mother is nothing compared to the prophet....
The continued "screwing mother" phrase suggests some freudian issues.... Pornography is a different issue anyways
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
What is the point of these cartoons! To make fun of the dearest person in every muslims life! A person deliberately creating conflicts and infernos between the west and the east while at the same time hurting over a billion muslims, should in my opinion be stopped, and if the government is not going to stop him someone or something else will. The question is how will he be stopped?
The point of them is to get Muslim fired up and to react in a way to justify their beliefs... Last time many Muslims fell into this trap... Get me once, shame on you, get me twice shame on me
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aamirsaab
02-13-2008, 07:21 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Im not really sure I agree there with you.



Because I see this sentiment as pretty big benefit.
Rising above a taunt is not a benefit of freedom of speech. It is a reaction. A benefit would be say a decrease in injustice. Since, however, you yourself posted that many danish people have been slandered as a result of the cartoons being published, it is quite clear that that particular act of freedom of speech did not benefit in anyway - the only ones who have benefited psychosocially at least, are those who shout out paki or various other racist remarks, because now they have a get-out card: ''freedom of speech''.
Pssha, freedom to act like tosser more like.

Hahaha there's some irony!
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Whatsthepoint
02-13-2008, 07:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Yeah back in world war 2!?



No because muslims are different! Most "christians" barely know anything about the Bible and the same with Jews while most muslims know their religion quite well. They cannot accept the Hijab that muslim woman wear!
They cannot accept the fact that muslim woman do not wear western clothes! They cannot accept the fact that muslim men do not handshake with woman! They cannot accept the fact that muslims only eat Halal meat, and the fact that they do not drink alcohol! And I could go on for ever

In order for muslims to be accepted by the danish they have to give up on their religion, muslims refuse to do so! If they cannot accept the fact that muslims will not give up on their religion, they might aswell just ban muslims from Denmark but they wont because they are afraid.

And besides that, 1/3-4 of Denmark are fascists so no wonder they hate muslims so much.
I guess religious muslims shouldn't have coe at the first place as they are bound to have problems with adapting to and living in the danish society... Westerners cannot immigrate into a muslim country and expect the socitey to fully accept their lifestyle and let them countinue with their western lives, they have to adapt, at least in public, and so should muslims.

Hijab, halal meat etc are not a problem. It's the protets that cause trouble. and threats, hate speech towards certain groups of people, violence towards apostates - general nonacceptance of certain rights and liberties that are taken for granted in the west.
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Moon*Light
02-13-2008, 07:27 PM
:sl:

Instead of trying to work this out with Muslims to prevent such behavior they are printing some of the cartoons again!

Both sides are going about this the wrong way.
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MTAFFI
02-13-2008, 07:28 PM
To me the whole issue is really goofy.. I live in the South, I have lived in the south near almost all my life, I talk southern, and I live southern... Many people in my own country like to make fun of southerners by talking about incest, stupidity, rednecks, and the list goes on. All the southerners could go and act against those who make the remarks but no one does, because like me many realize, it is just the way we talk that sets us apart. I have a very good education, and have done much more in my short life than most people do that are twice my age, so I sit back and laugh at those who poke their fun, they are ignorant. The same could be done with the Danes, sit back and laugh at their ignorance in this situation. We all know that those who insult Allah and his prophets (peace be upon them all) have a special place in the hereafter.
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abdullah_001
02-13-2008, 07:28 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I am pretty sure the Danes see freedom of speech as a core value. They are a secular country. Adherence to ideas of liberty are a unifying, communal understanding for their nation in just the same way that Muslims revere the Prophet.

That may seem silly to you all but clearly something has their hackels up if the cartoon is being republished.

If you want McCain to get elected...keep it up. If you want the Danes to purposely taunt you, keep it up. If you want right wing parties to come to power in France, keep it up. If you want controls over Muslims in europe keep it up. If you want to unite the West like they have never been united..keep it up.

Send some nutbar to kill that Dutch filmaker..that should help. Dont forget the Pope and Rushide (in no particular order)
If liberty was a unifying and communal idea, you would not have had a danish person in those three who plotted to kill the cartoonist. Your "liberty" is actually causing disharmony and disunity amongst people, so then would you stand up for any cause which causes disharmony and disunity between people?
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NoWingedAngel
02-13-2008, 07:37 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin
It's definitely good they were arrested, if the allegations are true. Like that nutter who murdered Theo Van Gogh.

Just because somebody says something offensive doesn't give anyone else, whether they're Muslim or non-Muslim, the right to harm or kill them. That's just... insanity.

Would the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) have reacted so? I think not.

EDIT: I thought it would be prudent to add a poll. Whoo-hoo.
Indeed. I find it amazing that many Muslims feel that the Prophet is so accursed by Allah, that they feel they have to defend his honor and name with barbarism, even though he himself did not, as seen here:

One old woman made a habit of throwing rubbish on Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) whenever he passed from her house. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had to pass that house daily on the way to the mosque. Even when the old woman threw rubbish on him, he would pass silently without showing any anger or annoyance. This was a regular, daily event.

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Biography: Kindness and Forgiveness

One day when Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was passing by the woman was not there to throw the rubbish. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stopped and asked the neighbor about her well-being. The neighbor informed the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that the woman was sick on bed. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) politely asked permission to visit the woman. When allowed he entered the house, the woman thought that he had come there to take his revenge when she was unable to defend herself because of sickness. But the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) assured her that he had come to her, not to take any revenge, but to see her and to look after her needs, as it was the command of Allah that if any one is sick, a Muslim should visit him and should help him if his help is needed.

The old woman was greatly moved by this kindness and love of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). By the example of greatness of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), she understood that he was truly the Prophet of Allah and Islam was the true religion. She accepted Islam at once.
Now, to all who would possibly condone the behavior of the original article (regardless of whether true or not), do you also think the woman in this story should be murdered?

Honestly, folks. I think many parts of Islam are stunningly beautiful, but were I to convert, I would not be terrified of non-Muslims.

I'd be terrified of other Muslims.
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truemuslim
02-13-2008, 07:38 PM
hell yeah its kickass...lol...im kiddin..
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Cognescenti
02-13-2008, 07:52 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdullah_001
If liberty was a unifying and communal idea, you would not have had a danish person in those three who plotted to kill the cartoonist. Your "liberty" is actually causing disharmony and disunity amongst people, so then would you stand up for any cause which causes disharmony and disunity between people?
Most Western nations do tolerate some degree of "disharmony" for the sake of liberty. It is almost a given. One can't have complete unity and divergent opinion at the same time....anywhere. There will always be those who disagree. The divergent voices can either be tolerated (as they usually are in the West) or they can stilled by communal pressure, threat of imprsionment or death. I like the Western approach.

The fact that one of the suspects is a Danish citizen and would devote more than two neurons to the iditoic notion of murdering some 73 year old because an equally idiotic cartoon only means he has not been acculturated into Danish society.
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krypton6
02-13-2008, 08:25 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I guess religious muslims shouldn't have coe at the first place as they are bound to have problems with adapting to and living in the danish society... Westerners cannot immigrate into a muslim country and expect the socitey to fully accept their lifestyle and let them countinue with their western lives, they have to adapt, at least in public, and so should muslims.
The "religious" muslims had to flee in order to give their children a better life. They had to flee because of the western colonization!

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Hijab, halal meat etc are not a problem. It's the protets that cause trouble. and threats, hate speech towards certain groups of people, violence towards apostates - general nonacceptance of certain rights and liberties that are taken for granted in the west.
Believe it or not, Hijab, Halal meat and such are the main "problems"!

The protests (that btw do not cause any trouble), the threats and the hate speechs towards certain groups of people (that btw apparently wish to be threaten and mentioned in hate speecs), are the methods that muslims use when what they love the most is insulted. If noone insults their religion and prophet, muslims will not protest, threat or make any hate speeches.
When a government accepts the insulting of someones religion and ignores the protests, the next step will be taken and people will start threatening, and making the famous hate speechs, and you blaim them for that?

The west are the ones lighting up these conflicts all the time and when justice is not brought to the case you might have to bring justice to it yourself..
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The_Prince
02-13-2008, 08:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Gator
So, just to clarify, according to you all women in the West are fornicating prostitutes.

Got it. Buy the way, that would be considered an insult.

Thanks.

See no violence.
lol did i say that? did i make the claim? i didnt even HINT at that!

all i stated is that in the west prostitution is legal, so is fornication, and now fornication isnt seen as something bad and so on, hence calling someone a fornicator cant really be deemed as an insult, just a false claim.

now where did i call women of the west prostitutes and fornicators? i said something COMPLETLY different sheesh
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Suomipoika
02-14-2008, 12:02 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
I would take law into my own hands and deal with the printer myself
That really says everything.

format_quote Originally Posted by aamirsaab
Rising above a taunt is not a benefit of freedom of speech. It is a reaction. A benefit would be say a decrease in injustice. Since, however, you yourself posted that many danish people have been slandered as a result of the cartoons being published, it is quite clear that that particular act of freedom of speech did not benefit in anyway - the only ones who have benefited psychosocially at least, are those who shout out paki or various other racist remarks, because now they have a get-out card: ''freedom of speech''.
Pssha, freedom to act like tosser more like.

Hahaha there's some irony!
Without the taunts caused by this act protected by freedom of speech, there would be no benefits of the reaction. :sunny:

Personally I see it as positive result and this all is just kind of growth pain of our societies, once people grow thicker skin and small papers of which no one has heard of will stay unheard and badly drawn cartoons get no violent reaction and publicity, apart from small print angry condemnation on page 52 on readers letters page and condemning discussion. That is ofcourse if, your sentiment spreads much wider.

format_quote Originally Posted by Moon*Light
Instead of trying to work this out with Muslims to prevent such behavior they are printing some of the cartoons again!
Like it or not, people are not going to change their rules according to what is taboo to you. Even tho the rules differ from country to country, all other groups in our society have to suffer and deal with (what they consider) insults and offensive material, from mainstream political parties and figures ("Bush is monkey") to minority groups like gay people ("being homosexual is sickness or sin"), to everything. Muslims and islam should be no exception. Like everybody else, muslims just have to find a peaceful way to deal with it, if not... then well, dont be surpriced of our negative reaction.
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snakelegs
02-14-2008, 12:25 AM
how many times will the trap be baited?
how many times will somebody fall in?
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Roasted Cashew
02-14-2008, 02:49 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
lol did i say that? did i make the claim? i didnt even HINT at that!

all i stated is that in the west prostitution is legal, so is fornication, and now fornication isnt seen as something bad and so on, hence calling someone a fornicator cant really be deemed as an insult, just a false claim.

now where did i call women of the west prostitutes and fornicators? i said something COMPLETLY different sheesh
Some people like to reach to conclusions they wished were true. I truly understood your point. Since people in the west don't seem to find anything wrong with prostitutes and fornicators and both are in fact legal! How would calling someone that be an insult? It's just that it would be wrong but not so much of an insult. Though individual perceptions might be different since some people in the west are decent and conservative.
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barney
02-14-2008, 02:49 AM
God created the universe, can crush mountains with less than a thought, can create infinity, can cause the sun to spin the other way or if he wanted to to vanish into oblivion. He is the very epitomy of omnipotence and nothing is impossible for him.

Why would he need three morons to go and kill someone who mocked him? Or his messenger?
When the children said to Elijah "Go up, thou bald head" did he not send bears to kill 43 of them?, When the Egyptians diddnt heed him, diddnt he kill all their firstborn? When Luts wife disobayed him, diddnt he turn her into Sodium Carbonate? When the entire world sinned, diddnt he kill everything on its surface except Nuah?

God, if you beleive your scripture, can top those he deems fit for topping with startling efficency. Put the knives and masks down please.
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czgibson
02-14-2008, 03:53 AM
Greetings,

It's shocking to see how such a simple thing as this can bring out the worst in people.

A reminder, for those who may need it:

format_quote Originally Posted by Common Sense

1. Let us try not to imagine that large groups of people are all the same, or have the same opinions.

2. Let us try not to wish violence upon anyone.
If we do either of those two things, we demean ourselves.

I hope we can all agree about that.

Peace
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ahsan28
02-14-2008, 06:10 AM
Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.
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barney
02-14-2008, 06:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.
It is impossible to compel someone into violence. Violence is a choice. Always a choice.
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abdullah_001
02-14-2008, 07:44 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
Most Western nations do tolerate some degree of "disharmony" for the sake of liberty. It is almost a given. One can't have complete unity and divergent opinion at the same time....anywhere. There will always be those who disagree. The divergent voices can either be tolerated (as they usually are in the West) or they can stilled by communal pressure, threat of imprsionment or death. I like the Western approach.

The fact that one of the suspects is a Danish citizen and would devote more than two neurons to the iditoic notion of murdering some 73 year old because an equally idiotic cartoon only means he has not been acculturated into Danish society.
Subhan Allah, Allah (swt) has blessed the Muslim ummah. Abu Bakr As-Siddique (ra) and Umar bin Al-Khattan (ra) almost always had opposing opinions and yet there was unity amongst them. Just take a look at Ka'ba, which is the epitome of unity that disregards almost all labels , be it race, color or nationality. Disagreements do not equal disharmony, and the Western culture (according to you) should learn from the companions of the Prophet (saw) who even in their disagreements never insulted each other. Subhan Allah.
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Trumble
02-14-2008, 07:57 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by ahsan28
Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.
It is not an attempt to 'provoke' anybody, it is a demonstration by journalists that that they intend to retain editorial control themselves rather than surrender it to the hands those making death threats and plotting to kill one of their peers. As Barney says, there is no "compulsion" to violence here. "Offence" harms nobody directly beyond a temporary rise in blood pressure, and if those claiming to be "offended" had not behaved like five year olds nobody would even have seen the cartoons outside the circulation of a couple of small newspapers in Denmark. The cartoons are offensive, but the point could have been quietly and that would be the last we ever heard of it - or saw of the cartoons.

To those of you who responded to the poll by saying violence is a suitable response, sorry, but I have to say this. GROW UP !! :grumbling
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krypton6
02-14-2008, 02:23 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
Why would he need three morons to go and kill someone who mocked his messenger?
Because the mocking hurted and is hurting more than a billion muslims and created a new serious conflict between the east and the west. I couldnt agree more with the three "morons".
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Cognescenti
02-14-2008, 02:53 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdullah_001
Subhan Allah, Allah (swt) has blessed the Muslim ummah. Abu Bakr As-Siddique (ra) and Umar bin Al-Khattan (ra) almost always had opposing opinions and yet there was unity amongst them. Just take a look at Ka'ba, which is the epitome of unity that disregards almost all labels , be it race, color or nationality. Disagreements do not equal disharmony, and the Western culture (according to you) should learn from the companions of the Prophet (saw) who even in their disagreements never insulted each other. Subhan Allah.
abdullah;

I will allow those probably were the teachings of the Prophet. How many Muslims actually follow those teachings?

Muslims on this board routinely insult Jews and Christians and even Sikhs and. The polytheists and atheists are in big trouble. Do I need to tell you what kind
of "unity" the President of the US gets around here? Or the US in general? You should have heard some of the stuff posted by Muslims about the Sudanese during the tedy bear ting.

If you want to get a thread closed own real quick just start a discussion about the Shia and you will have a grand old time.

I am talking about political speech. It is still impolite in the West to approach a heavy person on the street and call them fat.
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Cognescenti
02-14-2008, 02:54 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by krypton6
Because the mocking hurted and is hurting more than a billion muslims and created a new serious conflict between the east and the west. I couldnt agree more with the three "morons".
There you have it. A new member of the Three Stooges. Shemp to replace Curley.
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Cognescenti
02-14-2008, 03:02 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Trumble
It is not an attempt to 'provoke' anybody, it is a demonstration by journalists that that they intend to retain editorial control themselves rather than surrender it to the hands those making death threats and plotting to kill one of their peers. As Barney says, there is no "compulsion" to violence here. "Offence" harms nobody directly beyond a temporary rise in blood pressure, and if those claiming to be "offended" had not behaved like five year olds nobody would even have seen the cartoons outside the circulation of a couple of small newspapers in Denmark. The cartoons are offensive, but the point could have been quietly and that would be the last we ever heard of it - or saw of the cartoons.

To those of you who responded to the poll by saying violence is a suitable response, sorry, but I have to say this. GROW UP !! :grumbling
I completely agree. Teens making a video of themselves drawing pictures of Allah ...that was intentionally provocative (because teens tend to have that macho thing going).

Sedate, responsible, senior, well-travelled and well-educated editors of respected newspapers electing to republish the cartoons is not intentionally provocative. They are trying to tell you guys there is a line you may not cross without consequences. That so many fail to understand this does not bode well for the acceptance of Muslims in Europe.

The notion that European governments need to intervene to suppress the press is equally idiotic.
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------
02-14-2008, 03:05 PM
:salamext:

I voted for the first option.
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crayon
02-14-2008, 04:08 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I will allow those probably were the teachings of the Prophet. How many Muslims actually follow those teachings?
There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. Did we get 1.3 billion people burning flags, bombing embassies, plotting to kill cartoonists? No. Just because a few ignorant people do something stupid, they are not a proper representation of the group of people they belong to.
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truemuslim
02-14-2008, 07:20 PM
^ yep...

the people who dont kno islam correctly go do that stuff, so the other nonmuslims make it ALL muslims are like that! wth?!
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Cognescenti
02-14-2008, 07:57 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. Did we get 1.3 billion people burning flags, bombing embassies, plotting to kill cartoonists? No. Just because a few ignorant people do something stupid, they are not a proper representation of the group of people they belong to.
I made no such generalization. Let's not pretend, however, that a mere handful of Muslims with poor reading skills are the problem.

There are several on this forum who have voiced support for violence. They are still posting. Are they not ignorant, then?
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crayon
02-15-2008, 10:06 AM
You asked how many muslims actually follow Muhammad's (pbuh) teachings. That's implying that hardly any of them do. Which means that the majority of people don't follow his teachings, and are violent, get angry easily, etc.

People who support violence obviously feel it's important to completely disregard everything the prophet (pbuh) taught in order to defend him. I'd say their priorities are mixed up. Would you defend someone by disobeying them, or by defending them in the way they taught?
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-15-2008, 10:10 AM
i dont like this thread, it makes me angry and sad.


but i do wonder how many people from these outbursts actually search out fataawa...


Assalamu Alaikum
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guyabano
02-16-2008, 08:17 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by barney
God created the universe, can crush mountains with less than a thought, can create infinity, can cause the sun to spin the other way or if he wanted to to vanish into oblivion. He is the very epitomy of omnipotence and nothing is impossible for him.

Why would he need three morons to go and kill someone who mocked him? Or his messenger?
When the children said to Elijah "Go up, thou bald head" did he not send bears to kill 43 of them?, When the Egyptians diddnt heed him, diddnt he kill all their firstborn? When Luts wife disobayed him, diddnt he turn her into Sodium Carbonate? When the entire world sinned, diddnt he kill everything on its surface except Nuah?

God, if you beleive your scripture, can top those he deems fit for topping with startling efficency. Put the knives and masks down please.
Anyway, just another proof in a long list, that God doesn't exist !
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guyabano
02-16-2008, 08:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by crayon
There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. Did we get 1.3 billion people burning flags, bombing embassies, plotting to kill cartoonists? No. Just because a few ignorant people do something stupid, they are not a proper representation of the group of people they belong to.

But sad to say, a few 'ignorants' like these are very active on this board.

Sad statistic

Peace
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Cabdullahi
02-16-2008, 08:32 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
But sad to say, a few 'ignorants' like these are very active on this board.

Sad statistic

Peace
compare us to the british public after dr rwilliams made that remark about sharia law,they say we overreacted with the cartoons, but i felt sorry for that man because he was branded a fool and a traitor my the media and every1 when he actually said mild comments that showed support to the muslims the dumb british then misinterpetd him and they all went bananas young and old.

looks like we both muslims and non muslim reacted crazily but we reacted to something that made fun of us and something that concerned us

thank u
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wilberhum
02-16-2008, 08:50 AM


I guess one is as good/bad as the other.
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Cabdullahi
02-16-2008, 09:02 AM
Yes its abit of a shame for men in their latter stages of life to sit down get some crayons like we used to do in nursery and start drawing pointless cartoons,if they felt hatred towards a religion of peace then why didnt they just come out and say so like real men.

The western people always try to disemble islam from the time of the prophet whether it was applying physcoligical tactics or a more severe way,so what makes them think that they can abolish islam when it still stands after 1400 years
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wilberhum
02-16-2008, 09:21 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Yes its abit of a shame for men in their latter stages of life to sit down get some crayons like we used to do in nursery and start drawing pointless cartoons,
Is only old guys? :hmm: Is there more shame in cartoons than killing people because you don't like what they say?
if they felt hatred towards a religion of peace
Is it the "religion of peace" or it's members who embrace terrorism that they hate?
then why didnt they just come out and say so like real men.
I think they did. I guess you just need "reading between the lines" lessons.
The western people always try to disemble islam from the time of the prophet
I don't think they cared too much till they started invading the West.
whether it was applying physcoligical tactics or a more severe way,so what makes them think that they can abolish islam when it still stands after 1400 years
Do you really think it is only because you think Jesus was a prophet?
Do you think 9/11 and 7/7 happened because they knew the cartoons would be printed?
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Cabdullahi
02-16-2008, 09:42 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Do you think 9/11 and 7/7 happened because they knew the cartoons would be printed?
Im going to address you in the most respectful way my brother real muslims dont cause hatred but the minority that do have wronged themselves and satan has decieved them just like he did to you and all those with black hearts,and yes maybe i need to read between the lines i am in a learning process everyday so thank you for the suggestion

Think of a baby who has just opened its eyes to the world and a man who is about to breathe his last. Both had no influence on their individual birth or death whatsoever. Only God possesses the power to inspire the breath of life or to take it away.

islam teaches us that if our land is occupied and we are terrorized we have to resist and fight back thats all islam teaches it doesnt say go bomb the western countries but instead welcome them and respect them if they respect you


david ben-gurion

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”


“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/david_ben-gurion/

Arabs and muslims are considered dirty it puzzles them that how could their religion have lasted all this time its simple read between the lines, it is the religion of truth and peace

please my brother watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw
Reply

wilberhum
02-16-2008, 10:10 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Im going to address you in the most respectful way my brother real muslims dont cause hatred but the minority that do have wronged themselves and satan has decieved them just like he did to you and all those with black hearts,and yes maybe i need to read between the lines i am in a learning process everyday so thank you for the suggestion
Do you think those that died cared it they were "Real Muslims"? What ever that is.
Think of a baby who has just opened its eyes to the world and a man who is about to breathe his last. Both had no influence on their individual birth or death whatsoever. Only God possesses the power to inspire the breath of life or to take it away.
What? I don't have a clue what you are trying to communicate.
islam teaches us that if our land is occupied and we are terrorized we have to resist and fight back thats all islam teaches it doesnt say go bomb the western countries but instead welcome them and respect them if they respect you
Do you assume I condemn Islam? If so, you are wrong. I condemn anyone who uses religion to validate there hate and Intolerance.

david ben-gurion

“If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”


“We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/david_ben-gurion/

Arabs and muslims are considered dirty it puzzles them that how could their religion have lasted all this time its simple read between the lines, it is the religion of truth and peace

please my brother watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249JaIaubVw
Sorry, I don't do youtube.
I, as most, don't care what Islam says.
We care what Muslims do.

And some of them like to fly planes into buildings for god.

I don't approve of the cartoons.

But someone who does not respect what you respect and makes it known deserves your disrespect, nothing more.

To do them physical harm is nothing but hate and Intolerance.

And to do it in the name of religion/god tells us about the religion/god they believe in.
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-16-2008, 10:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I, as most, don't care what Islam says.
We care what Muslims do.

And some of them like to fly planes into buildings for god.

I don't approve of the cartoons.

But someone who does not respect what you respect and makes it known deserves your disrespect, nothing more.

To do them physical harm is nothing but hate and Intolerance.

And to do it in the name of religion/god tells us about the religion/god they believe in.
thats fine my brother these are ur views and u are entightled to them but i believe that 9/11 was not orchestrated by fake muslims alone they had help from an insider or traitors to u and the US public these are my thoughts,
i wish i could get the message to you but i am happy because i did my duty, i dont think a 60 plus year old would listen to a boy 3 times younger with 3 times less experience in this world but the knowledge of the truth doesnt filter the old from the young but brings them toghether in 1 unit

peace and thank you
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-17-2008, 04:28 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum


I guess one is as good/bad as the other.
The cartoonist didn't really just depict Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). The cartoons are not as innocent as your picture depicts. They are trying to portray the Prophet as a terrorist and womanizer, God forbid. I wouldn't mind if they tried to depict any random Muslim or "The Muslim" like that. I think you will know where I stand if you read my earlier post to this thread. It's on the first page. Anyway, have you watched the award-winning documentary film called Occupation 101.
http://www.occupation101.com/

You would have to buy it. But thanks to some people, now you can also find it on Youtube.

It's an awesome documentary. It starts here. You can go about and finish the ten parts. It will only broaden your perspective.
Occupation 101 Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU753...eature=related

Maybe this part would address why there is hatred towards Jews. I am not condoning the hatred but you would do a great injustice to yourself if you don't know the cause.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfeO-irQQdY&NR=1
Reply

abdurrahman96
02-17-2008, 05:31 PM
Being a Muslim myself, I am ashamed that some Muslims would do such a thing and take law into their own hands. This is indeed the work of WEAK Muslims who get angry easily.
You are wrong the hadeeth you quote are also out of context. There are many sahabi R.A. who killed people that insulted Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. Those three men were doing nothing but following the foot steps of the Sahabi R.A. Also you are claiming that the Sahabi R.A. were "WEAK". A person that gets angry because someone insults him is indeed weak. But a person who comes out to defend the honor of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. is not only on the true path but also a lion of islam. We muslims after the cartoons came out on the streets and protested like monkeys. We destoryed muslim businesses in Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon etc. Many muslims were killed in these protest. At the end of the day all we did was advertise the cartoons. We are the ones responsible for giving Salman Rasheedi lanat upon him so much fame. What we did was not from the Sunnah either. Sahabi R.A. when heard someone insulted the prophet searched for the person day and night and killed him. "By Allah! We Will not survive if he survives!" He: is refering to a person that insulted the Prophet S.A.W.
Reply

Keltoi
02-17-2008, 10:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdurrahman96
You are wrong the hadeeth you quote are also out of context. There are many sahabi R.A. who killed people that insulted Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. Those three men were doing nothing but following the foot steps of the Sahabi R.A. Also you are claiming that the Sahabi R.A. were "WEAK". A person that gets angry because someone insults him is indeed weak. But a person who comes out to defend the honor of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. is not only on the true path but also a lion of islam. We muslims after the cartoons came out on the streets and protested like monkeys. We destoryed muslim businesses in Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon etc. Many muslims were killed in these protest. At the end of the day all we did was advertise the cartoons. We are the ones responsible for giving Salman Rasheedi lanat upon him so much fame. What we did was not from the Sunnah either. Sahabi R.A. when heard someone insulted the prophet searched for the person day and night and killed him. "By Allah! We Will not survive if he survives!" He: is refering to a person that insulted the Prophet S.A.W.

It is thoughts like this that lead many to question just how "peaceful" Islam really is.... Perhaps I should say "Muslims", but that is sorting of splitting hairs. Not that I believe the majority of Muslims hold this sort of opinion...but I hear this sort of justification for murder way too often to find any comfort in assurances of the contrary.
Reply

abdurrahman96
02-18-2008, 12:05 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Keltoi
It is thoughts like this that lead many to question just how "peaceful" Islam really is.... Perhaps I should say "Muslims", but that is sorting of splitting hairs. Not that I believe the majority of Muslims hold this sort of opinion...but I hear this sort of justification for murder way too often to find any comfort in assurances of the contrary.
As far as my understanding of Islam goes I have read some hadeeth that suggest a person who insults the Prophet S.A.W. should be killed. But then again some muslims say only under islamic state. As far as Islam being a religion of peace. Islam is a religion of peace a non muslim living under islamic law has a very peaceful life. Ofcourse, The freedom of speech is limited by your standards. A religion can maintain peace while implementing laws. If a religion avoids all laws that dont seem peaceful. Then rapist, murderist etc.. would be free to do whatever they want without getting punished. Insulting the prophet S.A.W is bigger crime then all mentioned above.
Reply

Cognescenti
02-18-2008, 04:35 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
thats fine my brother these are ur views and u are entightled to them but i believe that 9/11 was not orchestrated by fake muslims alone they had help from an insider or traitors to u and the US public these are my thoughts,
i wish i could get the message to you but i am happy because i did my duty, i dont think a 60 plus year old would listen to a boy 3 times younger with 3 times less experience in this world but the knowledge of the truth doesnt filter the old from the young but brings them toghether in 1 unit

peace and thank you
Oh dear. Not another one. Still, we are making progress. At least the Jews aren't involved this time.
Reply

wilberhum
02-18-2008, 04:40 AM
I guess Ahmedjunior thinks the only bad thing OBL has done is lie. :thumbs_do

Denial is not just a river in Egypt,
but I understand it is a very comfortable place to live. :D
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-18-2008, 05:31 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdurrahman96
You are wrong the hadeeth you quote are also out of context. There are many sahabi R.A. who killed people that insulted Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. Those three men were doing nothing but following the foot steps of the Sahabi R.A. Also you are claiming that the Sahabi R.A. were "WEAK". A person that gets angry because someone insults him is indeed weak. But a person who comes out to defend the honor of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W. is not only on the true path but also a lion of islam. We muslims after the cartoons came out on the streets and protested like monkeys. We destoryed muslim businesses in Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon etc. Many muslims were killed in these protest. At the end of the day all we did was advertise the cartoons. We are the ones responsible for giving Salman Rasheedi lanat upon him so much fame. What we did was not from the Sunnah either. Sahabi R.A. when heard someone insulted the prophet searched for the person day and night and killed him. "By Allah! We Will not survive if he survives!" He: is refering to a person that insulted the Prophet S.A.W.
Brother, would you bother to prove it. Any Hadiths? And if you say it's out of context than pls provide the context. Otherwise, this is baseless rambling.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-18-2008, 05:33 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I guess Ahmedjunior thinks the only bad thing OBL has done is lie. :thumbs_do

Denial is not just a place in Egypt,
but I understand it is a very comfortable place to live. :D
You helped me out. Help him too. Anyway, Wilberhum. Did you look up the documentary and the link I gave you. Pls don't disappoint me with saying " I don't Youtube". Please!
Reply

wilberhum
02-18-2008, 06:07 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
You helped me out. Help him too. Anyway, Wilberhum. Did you look up the documentary and the link I gave you. Pls don't disappoint me with saying " I don't Youtube". Please!
Sorry, I don't do youtube. Any idiot can put anything up. :D
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-18-2008, 08:46 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Sorry, I don't do youtube. Any idiot can put anything up. :D
Didn't I say it is the exact DVD posted there. Not some home made garbage as you may say. Then, do yourself a favor and buy the DVD. It would broaden your perspective. What a shame. :-[
Reply

abdurrahman96
02-18-2008, 05:06 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Brother, would you bother to prove it. Any Hadiths? And if you say it's out of context than pls provide the context. Otherwise, this is baseless rambling.
You can ask an Imam or scholar where you live. If a muslim insults the Prophet S.A.W. he left the fold of Islam and should be executed. Same goes for the kaffir. I dont know the exact number of the hadeeth from top of my hadeeth. The hadeeth of a old blind man who killed the slave girl who curses the Prophet S.A.W. even after the old man had asked. Then next day the Prophet S.A.W. asked who did this the old man says his story. The prophet S.A.W. let him go.
Reply

wilberhum
02-20-2008, 07:04 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdurrahman96
You can ask an Imam or scholar where you live. If a muslim insults the Prophet S.A.W. he left the fold of Islam and should be executed. Same goes for the kaffir. I dont know the exact number of the hadeeth from top of my hadeeth. The hadeeth of a old blind man who killed the slave girl who curses the Prophet S.A.W. even after the old man had asked. Then next day the Prophet S.A.W. asked who did this the old man says his story. The prophet S.A.W. let him go.
Kind of like kill those who don't respect Islam.

That results in no one respecting Islam.
Reply

Intisar
02-20-2008, 07:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I, as most, don't care what Islam says.
We care what Muslims do.
That's a very odd statement to make.

Basically, you think what a few Muslims do, is an accurate representation of an entire religion? If all people thought like you, then Islam wouldn't be the fasting growing religion in the world (alhamdulilah that most people don't).

I think that's very stupid of someone to believe, because obviously the people don't accurately represent a religion, you have to find out what it really is for yourself.
Reply

czgibson
02-20-2008, 07:30 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
I, as most, don't care what Islam says.
We care what Muslims do.
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
That's a very odd statement to make.
Not at all. Most of the people in the world are not Muslims. Therefore, to them, the teachings of Islam are not of great personal importance.

However, despite not being representative of true Islam, there do exist people who describe themselves as Muslim and then cause violence, believing themselves to be serving the will of Allah. That is the problem, not Islam itself.

Basically, you think what a few Muslims do, is an accurate representation of an entire religion? If all people thought like you, then Islam wouldn't be the fasting growing religion in the world (alhamdulilah that most people don't).

I think that's very stupid of someone to believe, because obviously the people don't accurately represent a religion, you have to find out what it really is for yourself.
That's not what wilberhum said, though. You're putting words in his mouth and then refuting a view he never claimed to hold. See here.

Peace
Reply

Intisar
02-20-2008, 07:35 PM
^Nonetheless, one of the main reasons stopping you from embracing Islaam is how ''Muslims'' act, right?

The Muslims of today are a far cry from the Muslims of the Prophet's (SAWS) time. No one condones what they do under the premise of Islaam, many carry out attacks for the honour of their countries. But nationalism is haraam, no? They're under the impression that they will die as shaheeds and land themselves a stop in Jannah, when in fact that only works if your cause is for the sake of Allaah alone (fisabililah).

So to let the way in which Muslims act be an accurate representation of an entire deen is more than ridiculous, imo.

Ironic, 'cause you('d) probably feel the same with the way people feel about Americans.
Reply

abdurrahman96
02-20-2008, 07:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum
Kind of like kill those who don't respect Islam.

That results in no one respecting Islam.
These fraud liberal minded muslims are giving out a false image of Islam to disbelievers. These muslims do this for the sake of dawah. Recently, I heard a scholar in UK attack another scholar for saying homo sexuals are punished in Islam with dead. This so called scholar later in the lecture added if we attack homo sexuals why will they choose islam? Agian he is trying to give out a false image of islam to homo sexuals. Why would they choose to stay muslim after finding out they will be killed?
Reply

abdurrahman96
02-20-2008, 07:45 PM
Sister-Ameena if you are going to remove the statement made towards that person atleast remove his quote aswell. The rest was not meant for him.
Reply

Intisar
02-20-2008, 07:48 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdurrahman96
Sister-Ameena if you are going to remove the statement made towards that person atleast remove his quote aswell. The rest was not meant for him.
:sl: Wilberhum's wasn't disrespectful, yours was. And I only deleted the portion of your reply that was.
Reply

Cognescenti
02-20-2008, 08:09 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
That's a very odd statement to make.

Basically, you think what a few Muslims do, is an accurate representation of an entire religion? If all people thought like you, then Islam wouldn't be the fasting growing religion in the world (alhamdulilah that most people don't).

I think that's very stupid of someone to believe, because obviously the people don't accurately represent a religion, you have to find out what it really is for yourself.
That seems an odd statement to make. :D Why should he have to find out for himself. He already says he makes judgements based on the actions of those who profess a belief in Islam. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let's say I am a fisherman in Central Africa and my buddy is eaten alive by a crococile. Now, on holiday, I see a Nile crocodile, who is insulted by may apparent alarm and states, "Sir, I am a Nile crocodile, the stupid Lake Victoria crocodiles are not true crocodiles. You are ignorant in the way of crocodiles. You need to study the Crocodile Field Manual."

It seems to me the Nile crocodile is the one with the work to do, not the fisherman.
Reply

Intisar
02-20-2008, 09:48 PM
^Like I said before, if the majority of people thought like you, then Islaam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world.
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-20-2008, 10:29 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
^Like I said before, if the majority of people thought like you, then Islaam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world.
But since it is NOT the fastest growing religion in the world...
Aynway, I think the way you think. If I wanted to convert I'd study the religion rather than its followers.
Reply

Cognescenti
02-20-2008, 10:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
^Like I said before, if the majority of people thought like you, then Islaam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world.
Huh? Was that comment directed at me? I accept your claim that mainstream Islam does not embrace violence. I think I know now why so many of my posts are being deleted recently :giggling:

Perhaps I was being too subtle. All I am saying it is not the responsibility of non-Muslims to disabuse themselves of innacurate notions that they have learned from those claiming to follow Islam. If those notions which you find inaccurate offend you, then you guys need to fix it.
Reply

Fishman
02-20-2008, 11:50 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Cognescenti
That seems an odd statement to make. :D Why should he have to find out for himself. He already says he makes judgements based on the actions of those who profess a belief in Islam. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Let's say I am a fisherman in Central Africa and my buddy is eaten alive by a crococile. Now, on holiday, I see a Nile crocodile, who is insulted by may apparent alarm and states, "Sir, I am a Nile crocodile, the stupid Lake Victoria crocodiles are not true crocodiles. You are ignorant in the way of crocodiles. You need to study the Crocodile Field Manual."

It seems to me the Nile crocodile is the one with the work to do, not the fisherman.
:sl:
Muslims are not a single organisation, able to regroup themselves and spread better ideas, but western people have the very dangerous preception that Muslims can respond to events as a whole. Islam is fragmented now and is unable to control its own movements. But the western politicians can't seem to grasp this, and get increasingly frustrated with the lack of Muslim action, even though nothing can be done.
To make matters worse, the western world is still trying to live in an outdated, simplistic world where ideologies battle it out with tanks and missiles. Politicians constantly go on about trying to stop Islamic extremism, how they are fighting ideological battles in people's minds, and how extremists are brainwashing young people. They are wrong, and if they continue like this, they will be dead wrong. Extremism is not an ideology like fascism or communism or democracy. Neither is it the same as the ideologies of states like Iran and Saudi Arabia. If they continue pretending it is these things rather than trying to understand, they will lose. Extremism is not an ideology with teachings and principles, it is a demonic thing of anger, hate and the desire for revenge. Terrorism is made by hatred and anger, not by thought.


Truth is, the beast rules the world now. Hate doesn't die when hit by either cluster bombs or rocket-propelled grenades, it only grows stronger. The beast isn't something you can hunt and kill. It is inside all of us.
:w:
Reply

wilberhum
02-21-2008, 04:40 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by abdurrahman96
These fraud liberal minded muslims are giving out a false image of Islam to disbelievers. These muslims do this for the sake of dawah. Recently, I heard a scholar in UK attack another scholar for saying homo sexuals are punished in Islam with dead. This so called scholar later in the lecture added if we attack homo sexuals why will they choose islam? Agian he is trying to give out a false image of islam to homo sexuals. Why would they choose to stay muslim after finding out they will be killed?
But it is your statements that caused the post. not that of a "fraud liberal minded muslim". You should reread what you posted. :uuh:
Reply

wilberhum
02-21-2008, 04:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
That's a very odd statement to make.

Basically, you think what a few Muslims do, is an accurate representation of an entire religion? If all people thought like you, then Islam wouldn't be the fasting growing religion in the world (alhamdulilah that most people don't).

I think that's very stupid of someone to believe, because obviously the people don't accurately represent a religion, you have to find out what it really is for yourself.
I think czgibson summed it up quite well.

To challenge what I never said is quite odd.
Reply

guyabano
02-21-2008, 08:43 AM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
^Like I said before, if the majority of people thought like you, then Islaam wouldn't be the fastest growing religion in the world.
Islam is far away to be the fastest growing religion. **Link removed my a mod** if somebody like to read, pm me for the link, where this quote is from.

Muslims often brag and gloat over news of non-muslims converting to Islam, but they don't tell other side of the story where muslims are leaving Islam in droves. There are more muslims leaving Islam than new converts joining Islam. Muslims are leaving Islam in millions, which is unprecedented in the history of Islam. This page will contain news relating to "Muslims Leaving Islam" and links to Testimonies of Muslims who left Islam and converted to other beliefs.
Fact is that Islam is growing fast due to a huge number of new born babies in muslims families in 3rd world countries

Peace
Reply

snakelegs
02-21-2008, 09:03 AM
just a note for those who don't know - wiki islam is not wikipedia. (i was confused when i first ran in to it)

here is their own description:

Description
An anti Islam wiki.

The purpose of WikiIslam is to help Muslims leave Islam. WikiIslam can help Muslims leave Islam either by showing Muslim visitors a side of Islam that they may have never seen before, or by being used as a reference by non-Muslims who are trying to help Muslims leave Islam. WikiIslam:FAQ
Reply

guyabano
02-21-2008, 09:18 AM
Sure, an Pro-Islamic website would also never admit that muslims might leave their religion. But fact is, it happens, and not only few do it.

As I said before already, it is just actually fast growing Religion because of new born kids into muslim families but converts to Islam are not more today than in the past.

Peace
Reply

SirZubair
02-21-2008, 10:20 AM
This really saddens me. Muslims get so angry and violent because of a pen and a piece of paper?

Guys,.. Girls,.. Islam is a Religon. It is not a tribe. Drop the tribal attitude.
Reply

Roasted Cashew
02-21-2008, 01:34 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Islam is far away to be the fastest growing religion. ***/******//



Fact is that Islam is growing fast due to a huge number of new born babies in muslims families in 3rd world countries

Peace
I think someone should remove this post as it promotes anti-Islam webistes and I am aware that the moderators don't tolerate them. SO, how come it's still here. OH, Thanks "aamirsaab"! So you say Muslims claim to the fastest growing but in fact they are not?? OK, I will provide you with non-Muslim links. But, first let us look at the reason you gave.

"Fact is that Islam is growing fast due to a huge number of new born babies in muslims families in 3rd world countries" - What a baseless myth this is. Shame on you for spewing out garbage like this. There are just as many Christians in Africa. Most Muslims don't have HIGH fertility rates! Only NORMAL. It's you westerners who have LOW fertility rates. I think you should listen to Pope who actually commented on the low fertility rates of Europe. Then you have countries who ban families for having more than one kid, China and so on.

I'm not making this up. Besides the fact that National Geographic acknolwedged the fact that "Islam is the fastest growing religion in America" in their documentry on Muhammad(pbuh), here are several links for your satisfication:-

CNN WORLD NEWS: Islam is the fastest-growing religion
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/14/egypt.islam/

Islam is Fastest Growing Religion in United States:
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/a100501b.html

Times on line: Thousands of british people convert to islam every year:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1026534.ece

Why European women are turning to Islam:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1227/p01s04-woeu.html

Washington Post: Islam Luring More Latinos
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...&notFound=true

Happy. Peace!

Also:

CNN News 1.5 Million Americans coverted to ISLAM in USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKKntnZAwyo

NBC: WHY 20,000 Americans convert to Islam annually?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Ud-LUIMvM
Reply

guyabano
02-21-2008, 02:09 PM
Deal with it, Islam as well as Christianity claim already since centuries, that they have the fastest growing religion, where were do you all stand? Same stats as always.
You can provide me with tons of silly links (which, oh, miracle, some mods are not deleting, just wonder why as they also spread wrong stats), it will not change anything.

Peace
Reply

Malaikah
02-21-2008, 02:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Sure, an Pro-Islamic website would also never admit that muslims might leave their religion. But fact is, it happens, and not only few do it.
That is not true, my shaykh open admits that Islam is only growing because if birth rates and that there is a huge issue with Muslim leaving Islam (especially in Africa because of Christian missionaries).

format_quote Originally Posted by SirZubair
This really saddens me. Muslims get so angry and violent because of a pen and a piece of paper?

Guys,.. Girls,.. Islam is a Religon. It is not a tribe. Drop the tribal attitude.
We should get angry when our religion and Prophet are insulted in the most disgusting ways, however that anger should be channelled positively (e.g. spreading the message about why the messenger was a great man) rather than channelling it in to stupid, violent acts.
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-21-2008, 02:19 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Deal with it, Islam as well as Christianity claim already since centuries, that they have the fastest growing religion, where were do you all stand? Same stats as always.
You can provide me with tons of silly links (which, oh, miracle, some mods are not deleting, just wonder why as they also spread wrong stats), it will not change anything.

Peace
Brother why are people scared of the truth denying it when they blatenly see it.it is in the quran allah has closed their hearts and made them blind and therefore the simple truth might sound to them nonsense and baloney.this alone is a miracle for me the extreme hardheadedness of those that are agnostics,disbelievers despite gving them the simple truth
Reply

czgibson
02-21-2008, 02:23 PM
Greetings,
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
^Nonetheless, one of the main reasons stopping you from embracing Islaam is how ''Muslims'' act, right?
Not really. I would say that the main reason I'm not a Muslim is because the religion is entirely built on a concept for which there is no evidence.

I was of that opinion long before 9/11, say. However, I can see that wave after wave of terrorist attacks by people claiming to be Muslims isn't exactly good for the religion's image.

So to let the way in which Muslims act be an accurate representation of an entire deen is more than ridiculous, imo.
Of course it is. We never established who actually stated that, though. I don't believe it, wilberhum doesn't believe it - where are you getting this stuff from? Who are you arguing against with this?

Ironic, 'cause you('d) probably feel the same with the way people feel about Americans.
I'm sure I would.

[I'm not an American, by the way, in case that was your implication.]

Peace
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guyabano
02-21-2008, 02:46 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Ahmedjunior
Brother why are people scared of the truth denying it when they blatenly see it.it is in the quran allah has closed their hearts and made them blind and therefore the simple truth might sound to them nonsense and baloney.this alone is a miracle for me the extreme hardheadedness of those that are agnostics,disbelievers despite gving them the simple truth
Why should I be scared? I lead a beautiful life, but thanks for your concern. Well, the 'Truth' matter, it has been discussed over and over again, and NO religion is based upon a truth. It is always just a matter of beliefs and faith. Anyway, everybody has a different truth.
I have no troubles with any religion, but boy, learn to live together instead of everybody want to be the only true religion.
When you go on a christian forum, then they are the only true religion. I come here, the same story. Can you not learn to respect each other instead of always bashing ?

Peace
Reply

Cabdullahi
02-21-2008, 02:49 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Why should I be scared? I lead a beautiful life, but thanks for your concern. Well, the 'Truth' matter, it has been discussed over and over again, and NO religion is based upon a truth. It is always just a matter of beliefs and faith. Anyway, everybody has a different truth.
I have no troubles with any religion, but boy, learn to live together instead of everybody want to be the only true religion.
When you go on a christian forum, then they are the only true religion. I come here, and same story. Can you not learn to respect each other instead of always bashing ?

Peace
Thats fine brother You will one day find out that the sentence la illaha il allah outweighs the earth in terms of importance
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abdurrahman96
02-21-2008, 08:55 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
:sl: Wilberhum's wasn't disrespectful, yours was. And I only deleted the portion of your reply that was.
As Salam Alykum Siste-Ameena
I did not ask you to remove Wilberhum statement. I was asking you to remove that I quoted from Wilberhum. If you remove his quote from my post it does not make sense. The rest of my post had nothing to do with Wilberhum. Also I do not think I was being disrespectful. Stating a fact about myself should not be considered disrespect.
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abdurrahman96
02-21-2008, 08:57 PM
If you remove his quote from my post it does not make sense.
I meant to say "If you remove my post towards him and not his quote then it does not make sense".
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Roasted Cashew
02-22-2008, 03:16 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Deal with it, Islam as well as Christianity claim already since centuries, that they have the fastest growing religion, where were do you all stand? Same stats as always.
You can provide me with tons of silly links (which, oh, miracle, some mods are not deleting, just wonder why as they also spread wrong stats), it will not change anything.

Peace
Silly links? What do you mean? Just because you don't agree with them you are calling them wrong stats?
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guyabano
02-22-2008, 03:26 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by hmmm5
Silly links? What do you mean? Just because you don't agree with them you are calling them wrong stats?

Well, see ? Isn't that funny? To quote yourself: 'Just because you don't agree with them you are calling them wrong stats?'

ermmmm......

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Roasted Cashew
02-22-2008, 03:38 PM
format_quote Originally Posted by guyabano
Well, see ? Isn't that funny? To quote yourself: 'Just because you don't agree with them you are calling them wrong stats?'

ermmmm...... http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/frech/e015.gif
Did I miss something and this is that OH, "lol" moment or what??
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