Isaac Newton - Rejector of The Trinity believer in one God

[user16774]

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...71660745143381

A very interesting documentary revealing a hidden and truly enlightened side to one of the greatest minds that western civilisation has known. His deep study of science led him to a firm conclusion that there is a Creator and based on his study of early Christian history, he was convinced that the concept of The Trinity was a falsification of the pure message of monotheism that Jesus preached.

Newton vehemently rejected the corruption of the Christian establishment and the innovation that is the divinity of Jesus, his belief was the revealed God is one God. During his life he was forced to keep this belief secret for fear of being labelled a heretic and after his death this information was carefully suppressed.

The documentary also highlights the point that in the absence of study of the final divine revelation no matter how great the mind the knowledge of the unseen can not be deciphered as is illustrated by the fact that Newton spirals into a hopeless search for the truth by vigoursly engaging in the art of alchemy!

[user16774]

File can be downloaded from
http://www.islamictorrents.net/details.php?id=6870

[Isambard]

A lovely appeal to authority. I wonder if they mentioned that he was also a practitioner of alcemy lol

[user16774]

Thank you for your post Isambard.

The bulk of the video focuses on his pursuits in alchemy, and his motivations and hopes therein.

I highly advise you to watch the video as an atheist you should find it particularly interesting. One important message of the documentary is how atheists conspired to cover up of the fundamentally spiritual side of Newton, and more precisely in his belief in a supreme being governing the universe.

This documentary originally aired on BBC and is entitled
Newton The Dark Heretic

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[czgibson]

Greetings,

One important message of the documentary is how atheists conspired to cover up of the fundamentally spiritual side of Newton, and more precisely in his belief in a supreme being governing the universe.

That is a complete fabrication, and does not even fairly represent the content of the documentary, which is actually quite good.

It has been well known that Newton believed in god since the time he was alive. The fact that he published more works during his lifetime on religion and scriptural exegesis than science could have been a clue there.

Why have you decided to lie about this? It looks like you're actively trying to mislead people.

Peace

[user16774]

Hi czgibson, thank you for your post.

That is a complete fabrication, and does not even fairly represent the content of the documentary, which is actually quite good.

We are talking about the same documentary right? Why would I post up a link to the documentary and then lie about the content?
I welcome others to watch the documentary and post their viewpoints.

It has been well known that Newton believed in god since the time he was alive. The fact that he published more works during his lifetime on religion and scriptural exegesis than science could have been a clue there.

I wouldn't say any of these things are well known, or part of the well known image of Isaac Newton.

Another important message (important to me at least :giggling:) is Newton's rejection of the trinity. This information has also been suppressed.

Thanks

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Hi czgibson, thank you for your post.We are talking about the same documentary right? Why would I post up a link to the documentary and then lie about the content?

That is precisely my question. Either you haven't understood the documentary properly, or you're deliberately trying to mislead. I'm beginning to suspect it's the former now.

I wouldn't say any of these things are well known, or part of the well known image of Isaac Newton.

Well, then you'd be wrong, I'm afraid.

Another important message (important to me at least :giggling:) is Newton's rejection of the trinity. This information has also been suppressed.

Even if this part is true (which it may well be), so what?

Peace

[user16774]

Hi czgibson, thank you for your post

It could be that when you are clicking on the link in my first post it is directing you to a different video.

Here is the link again
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...71660745143381

Below you will find audio from the first 15 mins, you will be able to compare it to confirm you are watching the same documentary.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

00:01 A massive archive of Sir Isaac Newtons private manuscripts was put on sale after being kept from the public for more then two hundred years

01:34 The scientific genius was also revealed as a religious zealot

02:07 The cover up of the dark heretical side of Sir Isaac Newton began soon after his death.

03:04 Over the coming years two of Newtons passions alchemy and religion would be hidden.

Prof Stephen Snobelen - University of King's College, Nova Scotia
05:12 He was actually intensely religious and this is of course not the Newton of popular conception

12:35 By the late 1660s word of Newtons extraordinary scientific studies spread across Europe, but his religious inspiration was ignored

Dr Simon Schaffer University of Cambridge
12:49 Newton himself wanted to design a universe in which God was absolutely present and absolutely powerful. Theres an enormous irony there, in the 18th century gangs of interpreters most of them French, will take the God out of Newtons World, and we will be left with a clockwork universe I mean it's a very common image of what the Newtonian world was that it was souless that it was mechanical that it was a piece of clockwork, that it wasn't really theologically motivated at all.

13:20 To this day this purely mechanical picture of Newtons universe is still accepted worldwide, but in Jerusalem lies evidence of the scale of deception that has been perpetrated on generations.

Dr Steven Snowburn Historian
13:57 What these manuscripts reveal is a very different Newton than most people concieve off, a thinker who had a grand unified project to uncover Gods Truth, Gods True Doctrines, this is a Newton who is not a cold calculating scientist, this is revealing Newton in all his glory warts and all if you will.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the above does not match the video you are linked to then simply go to
http://video.google.com
Enter
Isaac Newton
in the search box and it will be the first video in the results.

Thanks

[czgibson]

Greetings user16774,

Yes, it is the same documentary. I'm now certain that you haven't understood it. Here's something you said earlier:

One important message of the documentary is how atheists conspired to cover up of the fundamentally spiritual side of Newton, and more precisely in his belief in a supreme being governing the universe.

It would have been unusual for someone living in Newton's lifetime not to believe in god, and anyone suspecting him of atheism would have been disabused of this notion by the amount of religious material he published. In academic circles, it has always been known that Newton believed in god, and this is no secret. The common 18th century belief that Newton was cold, rational and secular was simply a projection of 18th century values onto a man widely admired for his foresight and pre-Enlightenment contribution. Essentially, someone who believed this would be in denial, and though Newton's religious faith was certainly downplayed during this period, it was known but would likely have been seen as something of an embarrassment.

What was secret, and is explored in the documentary is his interest in alchemy and his anti-Trinitarianism. The alchemy studies were particularly secret in the time after Newton's death and on into the 'rational' Enlightenment period, because admirers of Newton were embarrassed that he had seemingly wasted much of his time on a fruitless pursuit. It was Keynes who, after his purchase of many of Newton's Alchemical manuscripts in 1936, revealed that Newton's alchemical studies were more important to him than had been previously supposed. However, the simple fact that Newton had been involved with alchemy is entirely unsurprising for a man of his time, and it was well known by academics.

Newton's Anti-Trinitarianism was much more secret during his life; had it been revealed, he would have been severely reprimanded for holding the so-called Arian heresy. However, his biographers suspected him of unorthodox opinions, and one, from the 19th century, even questioned his sanity. It had been a general suspicion for some time:

In addition to [publication of scholarly editions of Newton's major works], rumours circulated as early as the second decade of the eighteenth century that Newton's religious views were highly unorthodox. Evidence that Newton did not subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity was corroborated in 1754 with the publication of a lengthy analysis, originally sent to John Locke, that purported to show that a number of pro-trinitarian texts in Scripture were later insertions (New College, Oxford Ms. 361(4)).

Source

In the late 18th century, Samuel Horsley edited an edition of Newton's works that set out to counter the common Enlightenment view that Newton was irreligious. As an orthodox Anglican, though, Horsley was not happy about the anti-Trinitarian views in Newton's works, so left them out. An atheist conspiracy?

My main point, though, and the one that led me to question your motives, is that this documentary does not say what you say it does. You imagine that the big secret is his belief in god, while this is not the case. His anti-Trinitarianism was a secret, yes, but only util 1754. His alchemical studies were known about by academics and admirers of Newton, but were downplayed. It is the importance of these things in Newton's life that is the real secret exposed by Keynes (and subsequently the documentary), not the simple fact that he held the Arian view and performed alchemical experiments.

Peace

[Keltoi]

Greetings user16774,

Yes, it is the same documentary. I'm now certain that you haven't understood it. Here's something you said earlier:



It would have been unusual for someone living in Newton's lifetime not to believe in god, and anyone suspecting him of atheism would have been disabused of this notion by the amount of religious material he published. In academic circles, it has always been known that Newton believed in god, and this is no secret. The common 18th century belief that Newton was cold, rational and secular was simply a projection of 18th century values onto a man widely admired for his foresight and pre-Enlightenment contribution. Essentially, someone who believed this would be in denial, and though Newton's religious faith was certainly downplayed during this period, it was known but would likely have been seen as something of an embarrassment.

What was secret, and is explored in the documentary is his interest in alchemy and his anti-Trinitarianism. The alchemy studies were particularly secret in the time after Newton's death and on into the 'rational' Enlightenment period, because admirers of Newton were embarrassed that he had seemingly wasted much of his time on a fruitless pursuit. It was Keynes who, after his purchase of many of Newton's Alchemical manuscripts in 1936, revealed that Newton's alchemical studies were more important to him than had been previously supposed. However, the simple fact that Newton had been involved with alchemy is entirely unsurprising for a man of his time, and it was well known by academics.

Newton's Anti-Trinitarianism was much more secret during his life; had it been revealed, he would have been severely reprimanded for holding the so-called Arian heresy. However, his biographers suspected him of unorthodox opinions, and one, from the 19th century, even questioned his sanity. It had been a general suspicion for some time:



Source

In the late 18th century, Samuel Horsley edited an edition of Newton's works that set out to counter the common Enlightenment view that Newton was irreligious. As an orthodox Anglican, though, Horsley was not happy about the anti-Trinitarian views in Newton's works, so left them out. An atheist conspiracy?

My main point, though, and the one that led me to question your motives, is that this documentary does not say what you say it does. You imagine that the big secret is his belief in god, while this is not the case. His anti-Trinitarianism was a secret, yes, but only util 1754. His alchemical studies were known about by academics and admirers of Newton, but were downplayed. It is the importance of these things in Newton's life that is the real secret exposed by Keynes (and subsequently the documentary), not the simple fact that he held the Arian view and performed alchemical experiments.

Peace

Just out of curiousity, is this the same Keynes who developed the economic theory?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Just out of curiousity, is this the same Keynes who developed the economic theory?

That's right. :)

Here's the lecture he gave on this subject:

Newton, The Man

Peace

[user16774]

Greetings user16774,

Yes, it is the same documentary. I'm now certain that you haven't understood it. Here's something you said earlier:

One important message of the documentary is how atheists conspired to cover up of the fundamentally spiritual side of Newton, and more precisely in his belief in a supreme being governing the universe.

It would have been unusual for someone living in Newton's lifetime not to believe in god, and anyone suspecting him of atheism would have been disabused of this notion by the amount of religious material he published. In academic circles, it has always been known that Newton believed in god, and this is no secret. The common 18th century belief that Newton was cold, rational and secular was simply a projection of 18th century values onto a man widely admired for his foresight and pre-Enlightenment contribution. Essentially, someone who believed this would be in denial, and though Newton's religious faith was certainly downplayed during this period, it was known but would likely have been seen as something of an embarrassment.

What was secret, and is explored in the documentary is his interest in alchemy and his anti-Trinitarianism. The alchemy studies were particularly secret in the time after Newton's death and on into the 'rational' Enlightenment period, because admirers of Newton were embarrassed that he had seemingly wasted much of his time on a fruitless pursuit. It was Keynes who, after his purchase of many of Newton's Alchemical manuscripts in 1936, revealed that Newton's alchemical studies were more important to him than had been previously supposed. However, the simple fact that Newton had been involved with alchemy is entirely unsurprising for a man of his time, and it was well known by academics.

Newton's Anti-Trinitarianism was much more secret during his life; had it been revealed, he would have been severely reprimanded for holding the so-called Arian heresy. However, his biographers suspected him of unorthodox opinions, and one, from the 19th century, even questioned his sanity. It had been a general suspicion for some time:

In addition to [publication of scholarly editions of Newton's major works], rumours circulated as early as the second decade of the eighteenth century that Newton's religious views were highly unorthodox. Evidence that Newton did not subscribe to the doctrine of the Trinity was corroborated in 1754 with the publication of a lengthy analysis, originally sent to John Locke, that purported to show that a number of pro-trinitarian texts in Scripture were later insertions (New College, Oxford Ms. 361(4)).

Source

In the late 18th century, Samuel Horsley edited an edition of Newton's works that set out to counter the common Enlightenment view that Newton was irreligious. As an orthodox Anglican, though, Horsley was not happy about the anti-Trinitarian views in Newton's works, so left them out. An atheist conspiracy?

My main point, though, and the one that led me to question your motives, is that this documentary does not say what you say it does. You imagine that the big secret is his belief in god, while this is not the case. His anti-Trinitarianism was a secret, yes, but only util 1754. His alchemical studies were known about by academics and admirers of Newton, but were downplayed. It is the importance of these things in Newton's life that is the real secret exposed by Keynes (and subsequently the documentary), not the simple fact that he held the Arian view and performed alchemical experiments.

Peace

Now you're just trying too hard. ;D

As for the documentary and whether I haven't understood it, transcript extracts are in post #8 above.

Sincere thanks for posting on my thread, should lead to more members viewing the docu, helping to dispell common misconceptions about the great man.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Now you're just trying too hard. ;D

Not really. Revealing falsehood is pretty easy when you have the facts at hand.

As for the documentary and whether I haven't understood it, transcript extracts are in post #8 above.

So let me get this straight: your ability to transcribe excerpts from a documentary proves that you've understood it? Are you serious?

Sincere thanks for posting on my thread, should lead to more members viewing the docu, helping to dispell common misconceptions about the great man.

I'm sure they'll watch it and see it for the good piece of film that it is. I hope they don't accept your crude and inaccurate caricature of its contents.

Peace

[user16774]

That is a complete fabrication.....

Why have you decided to lie about this?

To actively mislead people..... apparently. :D

It looks like you're actively trying to mislead people.

When I was replying to Isambard I said

One important message of the documentary is how atheists conspired to cover up of the fundamentally spiritual side of Newton, and more precisely in his belief in a supreme being governing the universe.

Some extracts from the documentary posted in post #8

Dr Simon Schaffer University of Cambridge
12:49 Newton himself wanted to design a universe in which God was absolutely present and absolutely powerful. Theres an enormous irony there, in the 18th century gangs of interpreters most of them French, will take the God out of Newtons World, and we will be left with a clockwork universe I mean it's a very common image of what the Newtonian world was that it was souless that it was mechanical that it was a piece of clockwork, that it wasn't really theologically motivated at all.

13:20 To this day this purely mechanical picture of Newtons universe is still accepted worldwide, but in Jerusalem lies evidence of the scale of deception that has been perpetrated on generations.

We're meant to be talking about the documentary and whether I have lied about it and completely fabricated something or other.
So please refer to the documentary and its contents to prove your slanderous accusation, rather then linking to long articles and waffling on about your own views as regards the great mans legacy. :happy:

[user16774]

Hi all

From this Fri, Google are removing playback on all videos uploaded to Google Videos
So you have four days to watch this video for anyone who missed it first time around.

33,791 views ;D since upload

Anyone who does miss it search on YouTube and there will be alternative uploads but due to YouTube 10min restriction will be split into several parts.

Thanks

[Ramadhan]

Here's the youtube (on behalf of user16774):

[maryambintjared]

Two other great English thinkers also rejected the trinity in favour of the "Arian heresy"... that is to say pure monotheism. One was John Milton, who wrote Paradise Lost (people tend not to understand this great poem, and take it literally. It was in fact, more than anything, political satire... he could explore monarchical themes, for example, in metaphorical terms, which if he had openly revealed could have resulted in his execution.) The other "great thinker" was Charles Dickens.

[Zafran]

salaam

I'm not sure about this one maybe some one can correct me if I'm wrong but I think John Locke was also a denier of the trinity.

wow I didnt know John Milton didnt believe in the trinty.

peace

[maryambintjared]

Yes, John Milton's disbelief in the trinity could easily have resulted in his being accused of heresy, and (very worst case scenario) he could theoretically have been burned at the stake. He wrote a defense of montheism in Latin, which was supressed, and only became widely available several centuries after his death. A good scholarly work on the subject is here
.amazon.com/Monotheism-Medieval-Renaissance-Literary-Studies/

This looks at his monotheism from a primarily literary stance, rather than theological, but it's certainly something that made me think again about the trinity when I read it.

[user16774]

Please share this video with others and spread the message.

Thanks

[جوري]

Just read this and was amused by czgibson always ready fluff responses to anything posted that doesn't agree with prejudices he convinced himself of apparently in his formative years for no amount of reading or research goes at all into his replies.
1- He understands Arabic grammar such as on the bee thread
2- He knows all about ibn rushd should you present an argument against the pope who banned his books
3- If all else fails it is you that must admit you didn't understand what was presented...
4- I won't even begin to touch the threads where he feigns understanding all about 'Natural selection'
stick with what you know cz, being an atheist doesn't make you a historian, a scientist, a psychiatrist and a linguist (at least as far as foreign languages are concerned).

Not sure why these atheists continue to get away with such platitudes what makes them so special and us so allowing?

[user16774]

Just read this and was amused by czgibson always ready fluff responses to anything posted that doesn't agree with prejudices he convinced himself of apparently in his formative years for no amount of reading or research goes at all into his replies.

I agree with you czgibson does act delusional.

The guy has specific issues with Isaac Newton's religiosity, since it appears to erode the foundations of his personal belief structure.

It's true to say Newton was a very religious man, but he was living in a time when modern science was in its infancy. If I had been alive then, pre-Enlightenment, pre-Darwin and at a time when atheism (or being suspected of atheism) was punished much more severely than it is now, I think that accepting theism would be a much more sensible course of action.

Perhaps that goes some way to explaining how someone who always tries to make out he is so lovey dovey and peaceful came in so aggressively on this thread.

That is a complete fabrication.....

Why have you decided to lie about this? It looks like you're actively trying to mislead people.

Clearly this topic touched a raw nerve...... "Peace"......:statisfie

Will someone tell him we are talking about him so we can get some more of his trademark fluff on this thread.

[user16774]

Please share this video with others and spread the message.

Thanks

[user16774]

Please share this video with others and spread the message.

Thanks

[user16774]

Please share this video with others and spread the message.

Thanks

[Scimitar]

Newton may have been a monotheist, but he didn't ascribe to any doctrine far as i know. He rejected the Catholic church, rejected Judaism and didn't even comment on Islam.

What's the point in spreading this documentary again? Maybe I'm missing something.

Scimi

edit: newton did comment on the NT,

Commenting on the trinity, specifically 1 John 5:7 he wrote:

"Let them make good sense of it who are able. For my part, I can make none. If it be said that we are not to determine what is Scripture what not by our private judgments, I confess it in places not controverted, but in disputed places I love to take up with what I can best understand. It is the temper of the hot and superstitious art of mankind in matters of religion ever to be fond of mysteries, and for that reason to like best what they understand least. Such men may use the Apostle John as they please, but I have that honour for him as to believe that he wrote good sense and therefore take that to be his which is the best."

and commented on 1 Timothy 3:16

"In all the times of the hot and lasting Arian controversy it never came into play....they that read "God manifested in the flesh" think it one of the most obvious and pertinent texts for the business."

"The word Deity imports exercise of dominion over subordinate beings and the word God most frequently signifies Lord. Every lord is not God. The exercise of dominion in a spiritual being constitutes a God. If that dominion be real that being is the real God; if it be fictitious, a false God; if it be supreme, a supreme God."

taken from "A Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture."

Scimi

[user16774]

Maybe I'm missing something.

No maybes about it, you are missing something.

It often happens on online forums that someone comes along making a post whilst missing something.

[Scimitar]

thing is, I've seen the documentary when it aired on BBC, have posted it here on this forum and others - but for an altogether different purpose to yours... I still don't know why you have posted it.

What point are you trying to raise here?

Scimi