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Mikayeel
02-13-2008, 08:10 PM
Salam 3alekum.

I have just read that Denmark is putting the cartoons about Muhammad(pbuh) in the newspapers! I am starting to get really annoyed by this!
What are they trying to get out of this? Do they want to test how patient muslims are before they start getting all violent? Surely they are asking for trouble!

There is no need for this though! I really deeply upset me!:(, whats ur opinion bout it guys?

Wa 3alekum alsalaam
Reply

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Whatsthepoint
02-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Salam 3alekum.

I have just read that Denmark is putting the cartoons about Muhammad(pbuh) in the newspapers! I am starting to get really annoyed by this!
What are they trying to get out of this? Do they want to test how patient muslims are before they start getting all violent? Surely they are asking for trouble!
I guess it's because they've just arrested some people who plotted to murder one of the cartoonists.
Perhaps it is also a way to test whether muslims have learnt to respect the freedom of speech.
Reply

------
02-13-2008, 08:16 PM
:salamext:

whether muslims have learnt to respect the freedom of speech.
WHAT FREEDOM OF SPEECH?! They're insulting religion, that is NOT so called freedom of speech!! :heated:
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*Hana*
02-13-2008, 08:19 PM
There is already a thread about this here:

CARTOON ISSUE AGAIN
Reply

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root
02-13-2008, 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Salam 3alekum.

I have just read that Denmark is putting the cartoons about Muhammad(pbuh) in the newspapers! I am starting to get really annoyed by this!
Interesting, do you have a source. The latest I have found is the Danes exposing an Islamic plan to execute the man who is currently under armed escort and in fear of his life.

What are they trying to get out of this?
Probably, questioning the right to freedom of expression and guage where the boundary is, afterall. One may write references out of the bible on a half naked women to cause a christian outrage, I doubt the person would be killed for it though. Know what I mean.......


Do they want to test how patient muslims are before they start getting all violent? Surely they are asking for trouble!
Patience, yeah right. That is just sooooooo funny. Do you mean patience like calling a teddy bear Mohammed!!!!!!

There is no need for this though! I really deeply upset me!:(, whats ur opinion bout it guys?
Who cares really, if you truly believe then surely Allah will know best and suitably punish him in the after-life. Would that not be punishment enough!!!!!!
Reply

Mikayeel
02-13-2008, 08:21 PM
I dont understand how this is freedom of speech!!!! U r insulting a certain group of people and expect them to be queit!!!

WHAT FREEDOM??

WHY TEST PEOPLE??

WHY DO SOMETHING OF YOU KNOW WILL CREATE HATRED?? WHY??!!
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------
02-13-2008, 08:21 PM
:salamext:

@ root: It would be. But we wanna see the *censored* suffer in this life as well.
Reply

jzcasejz
02-13-2008, 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by root
man who is currently under armed escort and in fear of his life.
How touching... :cry:
Reply

root
02-13-2008, 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
I dont understand how this is freedom of speech!!!! U r insulting a certain group of people and expect them to be queit!!!

WHAT FREEDOM????!!
UH, for example. Like the freedom of this forum that is hosted in the good old USA. Do you really think it could be hosted in Iran or other Islamic republic!!!!!!!

WHY TEST PEOPLE??
It;s better than simply banning them eh. Most Islamic countries have just announced plans to ban any satellite company that odffends religous figures or politician leaders. Perhaps you agree with this. (reality check, we dont)

WHY DO SOMETHING OF YOU KNOW WILL CREATE HATRED?? WHY
Lets just ban anything un-islamic. Woyuld that make u happy, truly. really
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root
02-13-2008, 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

@ root: It would be. But we wanna see the *censored* suffer in this life as well.

It;s just a shame that the "we" you refer to are a minority amongst a majority that disagree with your POV.
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------
02-13-2008, 08:29 PM
:salamext:

^ how would u know that?!
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root
02-13-2008, 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

^ how would u know that?!

Simple, I don't need to google it, read it in a paper or be told how I know it. Being a proud British subject amongst many many other British. The general consensus is "Who gives a toss"
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------
02-13-2008, 08:36 PM
:salamext:

Yeh well, people that dont have a religion dont care about other religions being insulted :-\
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Mikayeel
02-13-2008, 08:38 PM
Oke can just please tell me what u think of this situation, instead of debating me....
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Whatsthepoint
02-13-2008, 08:42 PM
IMHO, the cartoons shouldn't be republished... The point's already been proven, I think religious feelings should be respected - and of course, the Danes should mind their embassies...
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Cabdullahi
02-13-2008, 08:47 PM
theyve made fun of christianity and jesus,judaism,budism and many other faiths but now they want to make fun of our prophet simply because they know muslim are passionate about their religion and to see anger and frustration in them is cool for these ppl
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ahsan28
02-13-2008, 08:58 PM
The best response to this situation should be to give no response at all. Even if we protest like before, its not going to give meaningful results as they will use whatever is necessary to show, how "Muslims react". If at all some response is deemed necessary, should be through diplomatic means.
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Mikayeel
02-13-2008, 09:01 PM
muslim Brothers And Sisters! Please Remember To Cut Of Any Denmark Products!! This Is A Very Good Way To Response!!
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truemuslim
02-13-2008, 10:44 PM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Salam 3alekum.

I have just read that Denmark is putting the cartoons about Muhammad(pbuh) in the newspapers! I am starting to get really annoyed by this!
What are they trying to get out of this? Do they want to test how patient muslims are before they start getting all violent? Surely they are asking for trouble!

There is no need for this though! I really deeply upset me!:(, whats ur opinion bout it guys?

Wa 3alekum alsalaam
NOOOOO NOT AGAIN... oh well ignore.. give them a message from me.. tell them to shut the hell up and go home and we can settle this the easy way...or...i kno where they live...and work... :Evil:

lol im kidin...as usual...
they so annoying now they just try to tick muslims off in any possible way, ignore them let them bang there heads on the ..paper..over and over and over and over... then they wont hava head nomore and will shut the hell up and go home...headless..brainless-- wait they already were brainless :X

:w:
p.s. im so mean
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FatimaAsSideqah
02-13-2008, 11:03 PM
AstaghfirAllah!! :raging:
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Fishman
02-13-2008, 11:18 PM
:sl:
In my opinion the cartoons are certainly offensive, but what the Saudis do is way worse. There are plans to demolish the house of the beloved Prophet (peace be upon him), and many ancient relics are already gone. There are almost no old buildings left in Makkah and Medina, the Saudis have paved over it all with their flashy new concrete and marble.
The Saudis are worse because they are Muslims, they should know not to do this...
:w:
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AvarAllahNoor
02-13-2008, 11:26 PM
This is wrong! No religion should be attacked or insulted in anyway! - Be it Jesus, Mohammed, Krishna or Guru Nanak Mahraaj Ji! - They should not be allowed to do this. It's a provovation nothing else!

Hindu cult leader dared to insult the Guru Granth Sahib, he met his death with a bullet in his head! Nobody has a right to belittle another faith!

IT WLL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!
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truemuslim
02-13-2008, 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by Fishman
:sl:
In my opinion the cartoons are certainly offensive, but what the Saudis do is way worse. There are plans to demolish the house of the beloved Prophet (peace be upon him), and many ancient relics are already gone. There are almost no old buildings left in Makkah and Medina, the Saudis have paved over it all with their flashy new concrete and marble.
The Saudis are worse because they are Muslims, they should know not to do this...
:w:
man they is just messed up..

u kno one of the signs of judgement day is wen the ppl try to take kaaba down and it actually works this time... ITS HERE!
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BlackMamba
02-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Its funny how when Muslims are made fun of its all of a sudden "freedom of speech" Check out the link to the cartoon.
http://www.truthdig.com/images/avboo...enmark_650.gif
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Malaikah
02-14-2008, 12:21 AM
Originally Posted by Fishman
In my opinion the cartoons are certainly offensive, but what the Saudis do is way worse. There are plans to demolish the house of the beloved Prophet (peace be upon him), and many ancient relics are already gone. There are almost no old buildings left in Makkah and Medina, the Saudis have paved over it all with their flashy new concrete and marble.
The Saudis are worse because they are Muslims, they should know not to do this...
:sl:

Okay, I don't see what this has to do with the topic... I won't dwell too long for the sake of not derailing the thread, but I really have to say...

Maybe if people didn't worship those objects and commit shirk the Saudis wouldn't have to remove them from the public eye or demolish them.

Also, are you sure they are demolishing his house? Wasn't he buried in this house? :?
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FatimaAsSideqah
02-14-2008, 12:24 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Best to do is let stop to talking about this, because this would be making it to worse!

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima
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snakelegs
02-14-2008, 12:28 AM
Originally Posted by Hamada
Salam 3alekum.

I have just read that Denmark is putting the cartoons about Muhammad(pbuh) in the newspapers! I am starting to get really annoyed by this!
What are they trying to get out of this? Do they want to test how patient muslims are before they start getting all violent? Surely they are asking for trouble!

There is no need for this though! I really deeply upset me!:(, whats ur opinion bout it guys?

Wa 3alekum alsalaam
hopefully some muslims will over-react and make good tv and give a boost to the right wing xenophobic political parties all across europe.
Reply

ZarathustraDK
02-23-2008, 12:27 AM
Heya, danish non-muslim here.

I see a lot of anger when perusing threads like these, I guess muslims are entitled to those emotions after all these cartoons. I'd still like to try and sort out some minor misconceptions though :

1. "Boykotting Denmark is the best way to show resistance" - Well, yes and no, it's true economic sanctions would be a good way to show discontent. Rather than burning flags and threatening to kill people, economic sanctions is a levelheaded way to show a united disapproval of what has transspired. Luck/bad luck (depending on the perspective) would have it though that the prime-export of Denmark is pork and alcohol which I guess muslims are not so interested in.

2. I saw a lot of posts in other threads which were basically "Why did they decide to reprint those cartoons?" - Some of you theorized it was just to sell newspapers or similar economic reasons, or just to piss someone off, it really wasn't. The cartoons were reprinted as a reaction to three muslims (one danish, two tunesians) plotting to kill one of the original cartoonists. The day after the arrest of those people 11-12 newspapers decided reprint the cartoons in solidarity with the writer, and all of them had a sober introduction explaining this. It wasn't meant as a repetition of the first incident, but as sign of the newspapers unshaking support of free speech and the writer who has to endure these death-threats on a daily basis.

3. Denmark is not a fascist regime - our political spectrum spans from "light" socialism to liberal over the different parties, all represented in our Folketing (congress I guess a fitting translation would be). Racism is frowned upon, and your political career is pretty much over here if you get caught saying derogative words in regard to race. A lot of muslims called on danish politicians to publicly apologize for their countrys actions, but they wouldn't, or rather, they couldn't. The reason for this is simple, we have a free press, and if politicians could moderate newspapers it would no longer be a free press. So to us it seems, not wrong as in "we don't want to", but simply an absurd notion in lieu of muslims apologizing for being muslims. It's not about avoiding to look impotent or silly, it's simply an otherworldly notion to us.

That is the underlying problem here, free speech is our prophet just as Mohammed is yours.
The situation can be likened to a chessgame where the impossible happens : the two opposing kings are standing on adjacent squares, and what is happening now is the two sides squabbling about who gets to move first and take the other's king. The one who lets the opponent take his king looses, hence the only sensible thing to do, in order to resolve the situation, is aggree to move away from each other simultaneously and hope black and white in time turns grey enough to co-exist peacefully. Anyone rooting for either king to capture the other fuels the fire in this particular instance.

Words are silver, but silence is gold. This goes for both sides in this maddening conflict.
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guyabano
02-23-2008, 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

@ root: It would be. But we wanna see the *censored* suffer in this life as well.
you start to show your real face. Go on !

So why believing in Allah and his right punishment for this man , when still you seem to be blood thirsty and harm physically people ?

And besides, you can drop the 'we wanna', as thankfully not all muslims think like you

Peace
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guyabano
02-23-2008, 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by Shakoor15
Its funny how when Muslims are made fun of its all of a sudden "freedom of speech" Check out the link to the cartoon.
http://www.truthdig.com/images/avboo...enmark_650.gif
ooooh shocking ! Blashpemy !!!! Insulting christian religion. Christian cross...uuhhhh. I think, christians should now also go on the streets, burn flags, commit terroist attacks...

Are they ? No, they mostly take it with humor.

Learn something

Peace
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IslamiCompare
02-23-2008, 12:40 PM
Well explained ZarathustraDK. A lot of good points made. However, in the UK, and this is also a response to 'root', wouldn't reprinting the articles be marked as 'inciting racial hatred'?? Tell me, please, how it works in bonding different people?

Freedom of speech is OK, but it should be used tactfully by those that are in a position to do so, and I see no tact in this. Why should hundreds of Danish muslims have to suffer humiliation (again) for the acts of 3 individuals. Freedom of speech? pff!
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ZarathustraDK
02-23-2008, 02:52 PM
Originally Posted by IslamiCompare
Well explained ZarathustraDK. A lot of good points made. However, in the UK, and this is also a response to 'root', wouldn't reprinting the articles be marked as 'inciting racial hatred'?? Tell me, please, how it works in bonding different people?
Well, the law against inciting racial hatred/hatespeech is defined more or less (I think at least, IANAL) as the willful act of doing something with the purpose and intention of inciting racial hatred, which is not the reason why the cartoons were printed in the first place (although perceived as such by the offended party); the reason for reprinting was the attempted murder of the cartoonist. They tried kill him in effigy, as a consequence the papers republished the cartoons in effigy to let the world know that free speech will not be silenced by such terror-tactics. I know it may seem like overkill, but I can't really think of any other less severe counter-reaction that wouldn't look like a lame duck, given the attention the attempted murder got. On the bonding-part, well, it wasn't really an action catering to that purpose. However, although muslims probably got more pissed at danes ironically the republishing probably lowered some of the islamophobia : lot's of people realize that although what was done was necessary (in their mind), they still stepped on someones toes and feel sorry for having to do so.
Also, race and religion are two different things, people don't choose the color of their skin but they choose what they wish to believe in. That people choose something out of their own free will makes it fair game for debate in Denmark and thus subject to free speech. I believe that's how it goes at least.

Freedom of speech is OK, but it should be used tactfully by those that are in a position to do so, and I see no tact in this. Why should hundreds of Danish muslims have to suffer humiliation (again) for the acts of 3 individuals. Freedom of speech? pff!
I agree it wasn't tactful, but acting untactful is not a crime (although when one is the victim of it one could wish it was). Conversely I could ask "Why should non-muslims suffer the censorship of a religion to which they do not pray?". Just like you hold your prophet dear as one of the absolutes in your life, non-muslim danes treasure freedom of speech over anything else. You may think it's ridiculous in this particular instance, but freedom of speech is the alpha and omega to our society. We abhor censorship simply because it means objective and constructive debate can get sidetracked and manipulated by avoiding possibly important topics, which in turn could influence what would be accepted as the truth by society. It is THAT big a deal to us, no exceptions even if we get burned in the process, because once we start hamstringing free speech it's a slippery slope which will end in censorship.

Besides, not printing the cartoons would accomplish nothing in our mind (which you no doubt will find a preposterous statement). Yes, muslims wouldn't have been angered at that time, but the possibility would still be there lying on the ground like an unexploded stick of dynamite, waiting for some poor schmuck to pick it up. I'm not saying you should be grateful that Denmark brought this thing up, you are entitled to be offended; but what I can say is that IF I were a muslim, and I knew this was unavoidingly going to happen, AND I could choose which country to bring it, then I'd choose Denmark for sole sake of securing a debate in which all parties can speak unhindered. It was a disaster waiting to happen, and I can picture far worse countries to use it as a genuine excuse for, purposefully and intentionally, inciting hatred.

What would I have done if I could do it all over? I don't know, I'd be between a stone and hard place to be honest. I see the harm, but I also see the necessity in trying to defuse the worst possible scenario instead of just talking about it. In a perfect society the cartoons would probably not have been printed (nobody would even had thought about it in the first place), not because it was illegal but because people would realize the harm it would cause and simply not do it out of respect for our fellow humans. But alas, there'll always be dingbats on either side trying to stir up a commotion.
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MinAhlilHadeeth
02-25-2008, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
:sl:

Okay, I don't see what this has to do with the topic... I won't dwell too long for the sake of not derailing the thread, but I really have to say...

Maybe if people didn't worship those objects and commit shirk the Saudis wouldn't have to remove them from the public eye or demolish them.

Also, are you sure they are demolishing his house? Wasn't he buried in this house? :?
:wasalamex

Exactly. It's not meant to offend anyone. Sometimes building have to be removed in order to expand, for example, the Haram.

And the point about shirk is a good one. I know some of the houses of the classical 'Ulamaa were ordered to be demolished for the same reason. I don't think this is disrespectful at all. Also, tawheed is the most important individual obligation, so this has precedence in being preseverved. Al-Hamdulillaah, Saudi pay a great deal of attention to this.
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Moon*Light
02-27-2008, 09:09 PM
German Minister in Cartoon Crisis

IslamOnline.net & News Agencies, Wed. Feb. 27, 2008

BERLIN — German's interior minister embroiled himself on Wednesday, February 27, in a growing international controversy triggered by the reprinting of a satirical cartoon of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
"I have respect for the fact that Danish newspapers have now all printed the Muhammad caricatures, on the basis (that) we will not let ourselves be divided," Wolfgang Schaeuble said in an interview with the Die Zeit weekly.

"In fact, all European newspapers should print these cartoons," he suggested.

Seventeen Danish newspapers reprinted on Wednesday, February 13, a drawing of a man described as Prophet Muhammad with a ticking bomb in his turban.

The move came following the arrest of two Tunisians and a Dane of Moroccan origin for allegedly plotting to kill the cartoonist who drew the caricature.

The re-printed cartoon was one of 12 commissioned and published by Denmark's mass-circulation Jyllands-Posten daily in 2005.

Schaeuble said Europe's newspapers should print the cartoon "with the caveat: 'We too find them pathetic, but the exercise of press freedom is no reason to resort to violence.'"

His spokesman did not contest the quote but he told a news conference the minister had made the comments in a long conversation, and was not urging papers to reprint the cartoons.

"I see no reason to interpret this as Schaeuble calling for the cartoons to be printed across Europe. He rather said that we have the principle of press freedom and that under the threat of violence, we must not move away from…press freedom."

More Protests

Schaeuble's controversial remarks coincided with boiling anger in some Muslim countries over the reprinting of the cartoon.

Hundreds of thousands of Sudanese marched through the capital Khartoum Wednesday, carrying banners and shouting slogans against Denmark.

The crowd, walking or riding pick-up trucks through the city center, demanded a rapture in diplomatic ties with Denmark.

"Any Dane will be prevented from setting foot on Sudanese territory," President Omar al-Bashir told the angry crow.

He called on Muslims around the world to follow Sudan's example in boycotting Danish products, companies, personalities and institutions.

Sudan has declared a national boycott of Danish products after a presidential degree.

Muslims worldwide boycotted Danish products during the 2005 crisis, causing Danish companies nearly $1.5 million in losses a day.

Denmark's leading dairy company Arla Foods, one of the hardest hit, issued at the time a strong condemnation of the cartoon and appealed to Muslims not to boycott its products.

Protests have raged in a number of Muslim countries since the cartoon was reprinted two weeks ago.

Demonstrators took to the streets in Pakistan, Indonesia, Jordan, Sudan, Egypt, and the Gaza Strip to condemn the move.

The Vatican joined Al-Azhar, the highest seat of learning in the Sunni world, Tuesday, February 26, in condemning the reprinting of the cartoon.

"Freedom of expression should not become a pretext to insult religions and defaming religious sanctities," they said in a joint statement.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
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Whatsthepoint
02-27-2008, 09:39 PM
Why should religions be allowed to say anything about any group of people they have problems with, and at the same time be protected from insult?

This is a cartoon thread so I think a cartoon is in place:
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MinAhlilHadeeth
02-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Greetings,

I don't know how that cartoon is even relevant.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-27-2008, 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Greetings,

I don't know how that cartoon is even relevant.
its actually quite a good point sis,

his showing how cartoons are not only used to insult islaam, but also used as propaganda to make the true culprits look innocent and the victims look evil.


:thumbs_up thanks for bringing in here whats not appreciated whatsthepoint
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Suomipoika
02-28-2008, 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Greetings,

I don't know how that cartoon is even relevant.
I think the point is that some religious people say pretty hurtful things about others, like example gay people (my favorite pet peeve on this forum still is the negative stereotypia of west), yet complain and demand for respect when they are criticized.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 11:15 AM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I think the point is that some religious people say pretty hurtful things about others, like example gay people (my favorite pet peeve on this forum still is the negative stereotypia of west), yet complain and demand for respect when they are criticized.
give an example of muslims as a whole complaining and demanding respect when criticised and we'll get back to you.
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Suomipoika
02-28-2008, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
give an example of muslims as a whole complaining and demanding respect when criticised and we'll get back to you.
You must have missed alot of posts in various danish cartoon threads.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
You must have missed alot of posts in various danish cartoon threads.
you dont seem to realise the difference between a criticism and a direct attack/insult, an intentional provocation, a test of another nations patience by pressing the hugest red button in sight.


please give a better example
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Suomipoika
02-28-2008, 11:23 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
you dont seem to realise the difference between a criticism and a direct attack/insult, an intentional provocation, a test of another nations patience by pressing the hugest red button in sight.


please give a better example
Except that they were never intented as direct attack/insult, people just took them that way, rather valid criticism in danish society.

I think its a perfect example considering the often hurtful and insulting nature of criticism towards for example, gays, western women and society.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-28-2008, 11:25 AM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
Except that they were never intented as direct attack/insult, people just took them that way, rather valid criticism in danish society.

I think its a perfect example considering the often hurtful and insulting nature of criticism towards for example, gays, western women and society.
the criticism towards gay people is done by everyone, why isolate islam to it.

as for the intention, it was very clear. There are certain manners in criticism, a disturbing and insulting cartoon isnt required.

it doesnt take much to realise that !
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Suomipoika
02-28-2008, 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
the criticism towards gay people is done by everyone, why isolate islam to it.
I dont. However Ive seen pretty heavy criticism on this forum about gay people aswell, along the other things I mentioned.

as for the intention, it was very clear. There are certain manners in criticism, a disturbing and insulting cartoon isnt required.

it doesnt take much to realise that !
There are plenty of criticism that is overboard, offensive and insulting and not really required. Some of it is done by religious people aswell. Which is why I think the cartoon posted by Whatsthepoint does have a point due to the fact, that even on this forum we have seen opinions that think that religion and religious people should be above insulting.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
its actually quite a good point sis,

his showing how cartoons are not only used to insult islaam, but also used as propaganda to make the true culprits look innocent and the victims look evil.


:thumbs_up thanks for bringing in here whats not appreciated whatsthepoint
Lol, that's not quite it. As much as I agree with what you've written, that's not what the cartoon is about.
Suomipoika basically got it. Religious people are allowed to say anything about everything that crosses their minds, let it be baby-killers, fags, the unsaved (these are not the woeds I'd use) and god knows what else. when someone either opposes them or even worse, says omething bad about them or, god forbid, draws a cartoon, they get all fussy, start screaming about discrimination, hatred, their relifious freedoms being persecuted etc.
I do not think religious opinion should hold any greater value than any other opinion. I don't thing religious feelings should be protected more than other feelings. I don't think religions (nor anyone else) should be protected from insult or mockery.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
the criticism towards gay people is done by everyone, why isolate islam to it.
Nobody does that. Islam is by no means the only religions er to inspire blasphemic cartoons, I'd say very few are made to mock Islam, most make fun of Christianity. It's just that muslims er...make more fuss about it than the rest of the population.:-[:D
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------
02-29-2008, 01:17 PM
:salamext:

^ Nope. Muslims are people that take their religion seriously.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by AhLÄÄM
:salamext:

^ Nope. Muslims are people that take their religion seriously.
Yes, quite a lot of them do, but that doesn't mean the non-muslim world should submit and change itself and its basic values in order to please them.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I don't think religions (nor anyone else) should be protected from insult or mockery.
lol i dont even need to reply to this, you've done it yourself.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:35 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yes, quite a lot of them do, but that doesn't mean the non-muslim world should submit and change itself and its basic values in order to please them.
we only go against the immoral/vile practises. We will go against nothing of a decent nature and i challenge you to prove me otherwise.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
lol i dont even need to reply to this, you've done it yourself.
Do you think religions should be protected from insult? do you think everyone should be protected from insult? If only religions, why the double standards? If everyone, how do you feel about imams being eprsecuted for saying bad things about jews, women, homosexuals etc?
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muslima1
02-29-2008, 01:38 PM
When a person does something to offend someone who is your loved one like wife and husband you stand up to them in the same way the mulims love Muhamammad(salallahualayhi wasalam) very dearly because of all the trials and tribulations he went through in just spreading the religion so that it could reach us.
This is way it affects us muslims when our prophet or our religion is insulted.

In world cup when Zidane headbutt Materazzi it was said he did it beacause Materazzi insulted his mother so Zidane lashed out. Thats what a person does when someone insults their loved one. I am not saying what he did was right just using it as an example to explain why muslims get so fired up when things like this happen. It's hard to control your emotions in situations like this.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
we only go against the immoral/vile practises. We will go against nothing of a decent nature and i challenge you to prove me otherwise.
You go against what you perceive as immor/vile/undecent. I see no reason why the rest of the population should be prohibited from going against what they perceive as imoral/vile/undecent/worthy of maing a cartoon about it, do you?
Reply

------
02-29-2008, 01:41 PM
:salamext:

These discussions keep going round and round in circles... *sigh*
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Do you think religions should be protected from insult? do you think everyone should be protected from insult? If only religions, why the double standards?
ive already explained that theres a difference between insults and raising a point. If the people do not like something let them make it known in a good manner. Why provoke anyone at all?! Why? The masses of muslims do not support the injustices you may see in the name of islaam, and that is the truth.

Disagree?

If everyone, how do you feel about imams being eprsecuted for saying bad things about jews, women, homosexuals etc?
they can state facts without insulting. If we believe gays will go to hell we will make it known, if we believe the zionists are evil we will make it known, i dont know where your going with women though.

but we wont stoop to the immature behaviour seen within the cartoons, thats for sure.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:43 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
You go against what you perceive as immor/vile/undecent. I see no reason why the rest of the population should be prohibited from going against what they perceive as imoral/vile/undecent/worthy of maing a cartoon about it, do you?
i see you havent accepted the challenge, case closed :D
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by muslima1
When a person does something to offend someone who is your loved one like wife and husband you stand up to them in the same way the mulims love Muhamammad(salallahualayhi wasalam) very dearly because of all the trials and tribulations he went through in just spreading the religion so that it could reach us.
This is way it affects us muslims when our prophet or our religion is insulted.

In world cup when Zidane headbutt Materazzi it was said he did it beacause Materazzi insulted his mother so Zidane lashed out. Thats what a person does when someone insults their loved one. I am not saying what he did was right just using it as an example to explain why muslims get so fired up when things like this happen. It's hard to control your emotions in situations like this.
Yes, I can imagine you feel aweful, but that's no excuse for doing what has been done. the protstors should have controled themselves.
Reply

IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Yes, I can imagine you feel aweful, but that's no excuse for doing what has been done. the protstors should have controled themselves.
easier said then done.

case closed :D
Reply

muslima1
02-29-2008, 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ive already explained that theres a difference between insults and raising a point. If the people do not like something let them make it known in a good manner. Why provoke anyone at all?! Why? The masses of muslims do not support the injustices you may see in the name of islaam, and that is the truth.

Disagree?



they can state facts without insulting. If we believe gays will go to hell we will make it known, if we believe the zionists are evil we will make it known, i dont know where your going with women though.

but we wont stoop to the immature behaviour seen within the cartoons, thats for sure.
I really don't know what you mean about women islam doesn't disgrace us women it teaches to treat us with respect.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by muslima1
I really don't know what you mean about women islam doesn't disgrace us women it teaches to treat us with respect.
im confused as to why you quoted me sis lol, its whatsthepoint who made it sound like theres something wrong here not me



lol


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i see you havent accepted the challenge, case closed :D
I have. I told you go go against what you feel is immoral/vile, which means you will not go against nothing that you perceive to be decent, I think that was teh chalenge.
There is no objective criteria to determine what's decent/vile/immoral and what isn't. To me, many muslims practices seem rather vile and immoral, whereas you probably feel the same about many western pactices.
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muslima1
02-29-2008, 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
easier said then done.

case closed :D
Yeah it should be closed because it is what this thread is upposed to be about :)
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muslima1
02-29-2008, 01:51 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
im confused as to why you quoted me sis lol, its whatsthepoint who made it sound like theres something wrong here not me



lol


Assalamu Alaikum
I quoted you by mistake and don't I am able to edit don't know why.

:w:
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muslima1
02-29-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
I have. I told you go go against what you feel is immoral/vile, which means you will not go against nothing that you perceive to be decent, I think that was teh chalenge.
There is no objective criteria to determine what's decent/vile/immoral and what isn't. To me, many muslims practices seem rather vile and immoral, whereas you probably feel the same about many western pactices.
What muslim practices seem vile and immoral to you?
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-29-2008, 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by muslima1
I quoted you by mistake and don't I am able to edit don't know why.

:w:
dont worry about it sis, happened to me loads of times !


Assalamu Alaikum
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
ive already explained that theres a difference between insults and raising a point. If the people do not like something let them make it known in a good manner. Why provoke anyone at all?! Why? The masses of muslims do not support the injustices you may see in the name of islaam, and that is the truth.
Disagree?
Why provoke? Well, I can think of amny reasons. First, to raise a point in a way a kind debate cannot (the reason for the cartoons were debates about self censorship, acceptability etc) because they (religious people) provoke (see the cartoon I posted), second, for fun, cartoons are meant to be fun ( the Mohammed ones weren't that funny though), et, etc.
I personally have mixed feelings about the cartoons. I don't really want to insult anyone, but I do not want to submit to what other people, in this case muslims, think is right.
No, I agree. That doesn't change anything though.

they can state facts without insulting. If we believe gays will go to hell we will make it known, if we believe the zionists are evil we will make it known, i dont know where your going with women though.

but we wont stoop to the immature behaviour seen within the cartoons, thats for sure.
Cartoonists may have believe Mohammad was a womanizer, a teroorist maniac etc. Why should their opinion be valued any lower than yours?
A sheik in Australia compared uncovered women to pieces of meat, I think he was prosecuted for that.
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Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 02:00 PM
Originally Posted by muslima1
What muslim practices seem vile and immoral to you?
Don't know, the burqa, arranged marriages, the killing of homosexuals, adulteres, death penalty, gender inequality (which you will of course deny, but that's not the issue of this thread), general lack of what I percieve as freedom etc etc.
Not to mention a lot of supposedly unislamic practices practiced by muslims.
Reply

muslima1
02-29-2008, 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint
Don't know, the burqa, arranged marriages, the killing of homosexuals, adulteres, death penalty, gender inequality (which you will of course deny, but that's not the issue of this thread), general lack of what I percieve as freedom etc etc.
Not to mention a lot of supposedly unislamic practices practiced by muslims.
I thought of replying to this but I realised it will just keep go around in circles and it is off topic anyway :D
Reply

Whatsthepoint
02-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by muslima1
I thought of replying to this but I realised it will just keep go around in circles and it is off topic anyway :D
You get reps for being so wise!:okay:
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