Newspapers decide to reprint Mohammed (PBUH) cartoons

[Intisar]

(CNN) -- Newspapers across Europe Wednesday reprinted the controversial cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed that sparked worldwide protests two years ago.
art.cartoon.afp.gi.jpg

The cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed provoked widespread outrage in the Muslim world two years ago.

The move came one day after Danish authorities arrested three people allegedly plotting a "terror-related assassination" of Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist behind the drawing.

Berlingske Tidende, was one of the newspapers involved in the republication by newspapers in Denmark. It said: "We are doing this to document what is at stake in this case, and to unambiguously back and support the freedom of speech that we as a newspaper always will defend," in comments reported by The Associated Press.

Newspapers in Spain, Sweden and the Netherlands also republished the drawing Wednesday as part of their coverage of Tuesday's arrests.

The image, by Morgenavisen Jullands-Posten cartoonist Westergaard, was one of 12 cartoons about the Prophet Mohammed originally published in September 2005. Westergaard's cartoon depicted the prophet wearing a bomb as a turban with a lit fuse.

Violent demonstrations erupted across the world in early 2006 after other newspapers reprinted the images as a matter of free speech. The uproar came as some Muslims believe it is forbidden by the Quran to show an image of the prophet.

Many protesters directed their ire at Denmark, prompting the closure of several Danish embassies in predominantly Muslim countries, including Indonesia and Pakistan. There were also attacks on other diplomatic missions in Iran and Syria among others.

The Danish Foreign Ministry has said it is keeping a watch on the situation at its embassies and has yet to report any incidents.

Muslim leaders in Denmark Wednesday attacked the republication of the cartoon, as well as the alleged murder plot, while calling for calm. Imam Mostafa Chendid, chief of the Islamic Faith Community, told AP his group was discussing whether to hold a demonstration before parliament, adding: "We are so unhappy about the cartoon being reprinted."

"No blood was ever shed in Denmark because of this, and no blood will be shed. We are trying to calm down people, but let's see what happens. Let's open a dialogue."

The Danish Security and Intelligence Service Tuesday said police arrested a 40-year-old Dane of Moroccan origin and two Tunisians in the Aarhus area of western Denmark following lengthy surveillance.

The Danish citizen is charged with a terrorism offense, the intelligence service said, and the Tunisians will be deported. Police have not yet released the names of the three.

The target of the plot, the intelligence service said, was the cartoonist for the Danish newspaper Morgenavisen Jullands-Posten, which first published the controversial drawings in September 2005. The paper identified the cartoonist as Kurt Westergaard. Video Watch how threats have targeted cartoonists »

"Not wanting to take any undue risks [the intelligence service] has decided to intervene at a very early stage in order to interrupt the planning and the actual assassination," the statement by Jakob Scharf, the agency's director general, said. "Thus, this morning's operation must first and foremost be seen as a preventive measure where the aim has been to stop a crime from being committed."

Westergaard has previously said that he wanted his cartoon to say that some people exploited the prophet to legitimize terror. However, many in the Muslim world interpreted the drawing as depicting their prophet as a terrorist.

"Of course I fear for my life after the Danish Security and Intelligence Service informed me of the concrete plans of certain people to kill me," Westergaard said in a statement posted on the newspaper's Web site. "However, I have turned fear into anger and indignation. It has made me angry that a perfectly normal everyday activity which I used to do by the thousand was abused to set off such madness."

CNN's Paula Newton said the arrests reinforced growing fears in Europe that radical Islam was trying to suppress free speech.

"More and more Europeans feel that Islam is a threat to their way of life," Newton said. A recent Gallup poll for the World Economic Forum showed a majority of Europeans believed relations between the West and the Muslim world were worsening. According to the poll this sentiment was strongest held among Danish.

Westergaard remains under police protection and does not know whether it will continue.

"I could not possibly know for how long I have to live under police protection; I think, however, that the impact of the insane response to my cartoon will last for the rest of my life," he said. "It is sad indeed, but it has become a fact of my life."
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Carsten Juste, the paper's editor-in-chief, said staffers have been "deeply worried" for several months.

"The arrests have hopefully thwarted the murder plans," he said on the newspaper's Web site.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/eu...ef=mpstoryview

[abdil han]

i dont know what are they trying to do with this...

i really hate of those who has no respect on others' beliefs...

[Malaikah]

"I could not possibly know for how long I have to live under police protection; I think, however, that the impact of the insane response to my cartoon will last for the rest of my life," he said. "It is sad indeed, but it has become a fact of my life."

:sl:

I hope more people look at what has happened to this man and realise what danger they will be putting themselves in if they persist with abusing freedom of speech to insult other.

[barney]

As i recall, the cartoons were published and went utterly unnoticed by the west.

Some muslims went apopyleptic and burned down buildings and called for hanging and beheading and suddenly the pictures went accross the world. People even started producing Toilet rolls and suchlike in a response to the violence.

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[Intisar]

^Yeah, the people who ended going ballistic (unintentionally) consequently gave these cartoons more attention. :hmm:

[barney]

It was the Banners and flags with "Islam is a religion of peace" being waved alongside "Behead those who Insult Islam" that was a headline grabber. In the west we are used to our media and papers portraying the Pope sat on a toilet or God on a cloud or Jesus on a skateboard. its so common, its just not particularly interesting or even funny. the cartoons would have been consigned to the landfill sites the next day and never seen again......

:/

[snakelegs]

i dont know what are they trying to do with this...

i really hate of those who has no respect on others' beliefs...

i think it is really very simple.
provoke the muslims - a few will do something that will make for good tv.
boost newspaper circulation.
increase support for right wing parties across europe.
and it doesn't cost a penny.
when tests of free speech reach this level, you can't help but wonder if free speech is really necessary for people with nothing to say.

[adeeb]

i think it is really very simple.
provoke the muslims - a few will do something that will make for good tv.
boost newspaper circulation.
increase support for right wing parties across europe.
and it doesn't cost a penny.
when tests of free speech reach this level, you can't help but wonder if free speech is really necessary for people with nothing to say.

agree... insult islam and u will win !!:heated::heated::hiding::hmm:

['Abd-al Latif]

Remeber them in your dua's, and I don't mean that in a good way.

[Trumble]

:sl:

I hope more people look at what has happened to this man and realise what danger they will be putting themselves in if they persist with abusing freedom of speech to insult other.

The reason for doing this was precisely to show that they will not be intimidated and bullied by such threats and plots.

[guyabano]

:sl:

I hope more people look at what has happened to this man and realise what danger they will be putting themselves in if they persist with abusing freedom of speech to insult other.

Just curious,

what about the freedom of speech of non-muslims, for those, displaying a picture of Mohammed ? Ever thought about that? They don't abuse any freedom of speech, no they also have to right to express it.
I understand that this upsets the muslim world, but what angers me, that some here yell for justice and disrespect toward muslims but with the same breathstroke, they yell to ban everything non-muslim out of muslim land.

If Muslims and non-muslims want to coexist, there must be found a balance between what can be shown and what not. For me, personnally, I have no problems with displaying. But if you think it is unfair, well go back to muslim land, burn some flags and feel better.

I don't like to be hypocrite so I say what I think. I have no problem with that, and when newspaper display pictures of Mohammed, well it means there is request from the people for that. So don't blame any newspapers for that, but the whole non-muslim society and that will be a fighting against windmills à la Don Quixote.

Peace

[Malaikah]

But if you think it is unfair, well go back to muslim land, burn some flags and feel better.

That might be enough to make you feel better, but I am certainly not that shallow.

The reason for doing this was precisely to show that they will not be intimidated and bullied by such threats and plots.

Yes, exactly. They know the consequences of their actions and if the right to insult and offend is so important to them, more important than respect for the beliefs of others, that they will risk their lives for it, then, hey, that's up to them. Just as long as they don't start complaining when someone cracks and does something stupid and attempts to kill them, because they KNOW what they are facing and what kind of trouble they are likely to cause.

[adeeb]

this is for guyabano :

ure wrong.. would u say that display naked jesus and naked budha on the newspaper thats because people want it...??????? and that's allowed ??????

think twice!

no! freedom of speech is nothing coz freedom means u do what u want and dont care with others feeling.....

u dont feel anything because u dont have iman and believe in your heart like we do... and because u re unbeliever...

:peace::peace:

[The_Prince]

you dang right relations between Europe and Islam is getting worst and it is BECAUSE OF RACIST EUROPEANS.

but all i say if Europe wants it, then come get some and as bushy said bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

perhaps IF Europe wanted some better relations they could stop mocking and insulting Muslims and Muslim belief. stop occupying and invading Muslim lands. hey that would be a good start.

[Cabdullahi]

Freedom of speech that will allow me to say something bad about ur mother im sure u wud be outraged,there is boundries make fun of any thing else but not what people believe,how they look like and whats sentimental to them

thank YOU

[guyabano]

you dang right relations between Europe and Islam is getting worst and it is BECAUSE OF RACIST EUROPEANS.

but all i say if Europe wants it, then come get some and as bushy said bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

perhaps IF Europe wanted some better relations they could stop mocking and insulting Muslims and Muslim belief. stop occupying and invading Muslim lands. hey that would be a good start.

you forget the RACIST MUSLIMS in this sentence. Your favorite topic, you know a lot about.

Anyway, there is a solution for muslims: Simply boycott the newspaper or don't watch/buy it. That is the way, you can show your solidarity if you are against it.

Peace

[guyabano]

Freedom of speech that will allow me to say something bad about ur mother im sure u wud be outraged,there is boundries make fun of any thing else but not what people believe,how they look like and whats sentimental to them

thank YOU

well, if somebody insult another person's mother, that will for sure not be printed on a newspaper and that will never be, neither for muslims as non-muslims.
And of course I would be outraged.
But for non-muslims, displaying an religious figure is nothing bad.

Peace

[Woodrow]

Just a few statements and a few questions.

Support for intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq is dwindling. Each day there is a smaller likelihood of any nation seeking military aggression against Iran.


What is the fastest way to get western sympathy to be anti-Islamic?


Get many Muslims angry and the extremists will make their presence known.

Is this what is happening with the newest printing of the cartoons?


Or is it just a gimmick to increase newspaper sales?

[guyabano]

Just a few statements and a few questions.

Support for intervention in Afghanistan and Iraq is dwindling. Each day there is a smaller likelihood of any nation seeking military aggression against Iran.


What is the fastest way to get western sympathy to be anti-Islamic?


Get many Muslims angry and the extremists will make their presence known.

Is this what is happening with the newest printing of the cartoons?


Or is it just a gimmick to increase newspaper sales?

The Danish have not enough military presence there to start agreesive acts against Iran. Danish are a rather peaceful people.
Why they display again some cartoons of Mohammed, well that will remain the question. What would be the reason for a provocation?
But on one point, you are right: Muslim extremists will come out again and plan some silly unadequate revenge acts by killing innocent civilians.

And this will shed again a bad light on muslim communities across western world.

Peace

[Cabdullahi]

But for non-muslims, displaying an religious figure is nothing bad.

Peace

U feel like that because it doesnt concern ur not bothered but if u had a religious figure and he was mocked and published on newspapers u would feel some what angry just like how u wud feel if ur mother wud be awfully made fun of .
this is another tactic by the so called peace makers to instigate some propaganda and influence the world and make them believe that these muslims are crazy look how they are reacting, its a threat to our freedom rights and beliefs blah blah while america practise their evil political ideas now that they have the peoples respect to once again cause trauma in the middle east this is the same bullsh8t reoccuring its almost a deja vu bloody shocking

thank YOU

[------]

:salamext:

Dyou know what? I think we shouldn't respond. That's what they want, they want to show how violent Muslims are, and how shocking Islaam is. We have to prove them wrong. Allaah will protect His religion. No harm can fall upon Islaam coz Allaah is protecting it.

All we should do is pray for their guidance that are printing these and drawing them.

[snakelegs]

:salamext:

Dyou know what? I think we shouldn't respond. That's what they want, they want to show how violent Muslims are, and how shocking Islaam is. We have to prove them wrong. Allaah will protect His religion. No harm can fall upon Islaam coz Allaah is protecting it.

All we should do is pray for their guidance that are printing these and drawing them.

what a terrible disappointment that would be.

[------]

:salamext:

^ What do u mean?

[Cabdullahi]

i think he means what a dissapointment it would be to those who are making the pictures and the west

[------]

:salamext:

Oh ok. ^ She, not HE lol :X

[Cabdullahi]

:salamext:

Oh ok. ^ She, not HE lol :X

opps well how am i supposed to know:giggling:
im sorry snakelegs:hiding:

[guyabano]

:salamext:

Dyou know what? I think we shouldn't respond. That's what they want, they want to show how violent Muslims are, and how shocking Islaam is. We have to prove them wrong. Allaah will protect His religion. No harm can fall upon Islaam coz Allaah is protecting it.

All we should do is pray for their guidance that are printing these and drawing them.

well, thats it. Don't feed the dog and it will die !
Somebody who has a strong belief cannot be provoked by such silly attempts.

Peace

[IbnAbdulHakim]

for real we got to have sabr.

yes we're in a humiliated state, may Allah take us out of it...


Assalamu Alaikum

[------]

:salamext:

yes we're in a humiliated state, may Allah take us out of it...

Inshaa Allaah....AmeeN!!

[abdil han]

:salamext:

Dyou know what? I think we shouldn't respond. That's what they want, they want to show how violent Muslims are, and how shocking Islaam is. We have to prove them wrong. Allaah will protect His religion. No harm can fall upon Islaam coz Allaah is protecting it.

All we should do is pray for their guidance that are printing these and drawing them.

but maybe this is what they want,

they wanna make us silent,giving no reaction and after they will force more n more...
ok we should be calm,not violent,not buring some places,attacking others,
but we should show that we should not let them to feel so free to attack islam...

Allah will protect his religion as in abraha n his elephant army,but why we are in this world then,if we r nt supposed to do anythng against them?

[------]

:salamext:

Brother if we dont say anything they will calm down and stop doing these kind of things.

But if we keep on attacking them, then they will keep on hating Islaam

Get my jist?

[Uthman]

Some people take immaturity to a whole new level.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

:sl:

I hope more people look at what has happened to this man and realise what danger they will be putting themselves in if they persist with abusing freedom of speech to insult other.

What is more offensive to you: a cartoon or threats of violence?

^Yeah, the people who ended going ballistic (unintentionally) consequently gave these cartoons more attention.

Unintentionally? Do you mean the Danish imams who toured the Middle East actively trying to raise awareness of the cartoons? Read about them here.

Peace

[Uthman]

We have to act in an Islamic manner. Now more than ever, we have to cling on to our Deen and emulate the example of Prophet Muhammad (sallalahu aleyhi wasallam)

Remember the story of Prophet Muhammad's visit to Ta'if? He just went there to invite the people to the way of their lord, Islam. But remember what they did to him? They threw stones at him, such that he was bleeding so much that his feet clogged to his shoes. And then, after he retreated, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) came to him and said that if he so wished, he would make is so that the surrounding mountains would bury the city and it's inhabitants.. But what was his reply? He said:

"Leave them alone. Yes, today the people ignored my message. But I pray that their progeny will be a different group of people. I pray that they will accept Islam."

Also remember the following words of his:

“The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.”

It is this kind of character and behaviour that is befitting of a Muslim. If only the majority of Muslims today would return to the true message of Islam, there would not be such a crisis surrounding our religion today.

There is something that I would like people to read as well. Words so eloquent I could not have put it better myself:

Muhammad in Taif by Luqman Ali

:w:

[------]

:salamext:

They threw stones at him, such that he was bleeding so much that his feet clogged to his shoes. And then, after he retreated, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) came to him and said that if he so wished, he would make is so that the surrounding mountains would bury the city and it's inhabitants.. But what was his reply? He said:

"Leave them alone. Yes, today the people ignored my message. But I pray that their progeny will be a different group of people. I pray that they will accept Islam."

This is what I was getting at! Jazaak Allaah Khayr!!

[Muezzin]

[LEFT]It is this kind of character and behaviour that is befitting of a Muslim. If only the majority of Muslims today would return to true message of Islam, there would not be such a crisis surrounding our religion today.

Very true. I mean, if I were to react violently to the usually astoundingly unfunny Metro cartoons, there would be derailed passenger trains strewn all over the Midlands...

[------]

:salamext:

Also:

They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths but Allah will perfect His light, though the unbelievers may be averse.

Qur'aan, Chapter 61, Verse 8

[qassy!]

i dont know what are they trying to do with this...

i really hate of those who has no respect on others' beliefs...

they are respecting it............its a cartoon

[IbnAbdulHakim]

they are respecting it............its a cartoon

if i draw an offensive picture and said its you, is that respect?!


what the....

[------]

:salamext:

And I hate it when Muslims take that ^ attitude, it annoys the *censored* out of me, because how do they expect other people to respect their religion, when the Muslims themselves aren't!

[FatimaAsSideqah]

:salamext:

Dyou know what? I think we shouldn't respond. That's what they want, they want to show how violent Muslims are, and how shocking Islaam is. We have to prove them wrong. Allaah will protect His religion. No harm can fall upon Islaam coz Allaah is protecting it.

All we should do is pray for their guidance that are printing these and drawing them.

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Good points, sis! I think we shouldn't talking about this and used to angry way on this incident!

Ameen on your dua!

May Allah Ta'ala protects us from the demons!

Allah Ta'ala
Sister Fatima

[AhlaamBella]

Firstly, Everyone cool down.

Secondly, we can show our disapproval without rioting on the government. Reprinting these cartoons is simply to spark a reaction. Don't give them the satisfaction. I'm not saying do nothing. Just don't lash out with anger.

[Woodrow]

:sl:

Sadly we allow ourselves to become angered over the sins of others. It is fine to hate the sins, but it is wrong to react to them in a manner that is just as bad or even worse.

The goal of the cartoons seems to be one of showing the world that Muslims are immature, ignorant and prone to emotional outbursts. Our reaction often solidifies this belief. As a result we give the impression that Islam is backwards, oppressive and dangerous.This is the image we are promoting, not an image of strength or one of reason. Our behavior seems to be our worse enemy.

We actually encouraged the reprinting of the cartoons because in the past we have shown it generates world wide news coverage, not good coverage, one of showing us in the worse possible light. As long as we keep acting in that matter, more cartoons will appear and with each group of cartoons become even more hateful.

Yes we need to take a stand against the cartoons. But, we must do it in a manner that shows us to be dignified, civilized and more respectable than the cartoonists. The methods used to protect Islam in the past need to be updated and we now need to protect our belief in a workable manner and not through brute force.

Our best first tool is education. we need to show the world that Muhammad(PBUH) was an honorable man and did act with restraint, even when dealing with those who offended him.

Have the actions of the past curtailed the cartoons? It seems we have only publicized them and helped spread them much further than they would have been seen. Our past actions did not end them, it only served to encourage reprinting with larger distribution.

Have our actions honored Muhammad(PBUH)? Our actions helped promote the cartoons and brought about world wide distribution. We helped spread the cartoons not end or correct them.

[krypton6]

:salamext:

Brother if we dont say anything they will calm down and stop doing these kind of things.

But if we keep on attacking them, then they will keep on hating Islaam

Get my jist?

They wont just calm down. They will continue provoking muslims over and over again. If the cartoons were not printed to provoke muslims but instead to make it clear that freedom of speech is important or what ever, they proved what they wanted, but why on earth do they have to do it again!

If a picture of my mother screwing a man was printed on the frontpage of a newspaper I would find the man who printed it and deal with him myself, these cartoons are much more insulting than what a silly picture of my mother screwing is so what wouldn't I do here.

A man who keeps provoking and insulting muslims in the worst way possible while creating new serious conflicts between the east and the west should be punished or at least stopped, if the fascist government wont do anything about it someone else will.

[------]

:salamext:

^ Well said Uncle Woodrow!!

A man who keeps provoking and insulting muslims in the worst way possible while creating new serious conflicts between the east and the west should be punished or at least stopped, if the fascist government wont do anything about it someone else will.

Well what do u expect us to do?!?! If we argue we're bad, if we keep quiet, we're bad

MAKE UR MIND UP !!!!!

[AhlaamBella]

:salamext:

^ Well said Uncle Woodrow!!



Well what do u expect us to do?!?! If we argue we're bad, if we keep quiet, we're bad

MAKE UR MIND UP !!!!!

Sis relax :)

Words are powerful. I, as a writer knows that. Actions of anger won't work. Speeches, articles etc. Spread your objections without causing a scene.

[------]

:salamext:

^ I'm relaxed. But I don't get what the... non Muslims want!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Spread your objections without causing a scene.

and if they silence your objections? which they are extremely capable of doing...

[AhlaamBella]

and if they silence your objections? which they are extremely capable of doing...

Don't give up. There are many ways of getting your words out. Just don't give up.

[------]

:salamext:

SUbhaan Allaah.... sis its not that easy.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Don't give up. There are many ways of getting your words out. Just don't give up.

mashaAllaah, i have a solution if your ways do not work.

but for now, i like your willpower, may Allaah grant you success

[AhlaamBella]

mashaAllaah, i have a solution if your ways do not work.

but for now, i like your willpower, may Allaah grant you success

JazakAllah :D lol

And sis Ahlaam I know it isn't easy. But don't give them the satisfaction of seeing you loose your temper. There are some girls in my college who despise me for some reason, one person told me not to stoop to their level and to simply return their looks of disgust with a smile. It infuriated them.

This is the same thing.

[------]

:salamext:

So what do u suggest? That we laugh with them?

[AhlaamBella]

:salamext:

So what do u suggest? That we laugh with them?

no no no no no not at all.
Get articles published on sites. Blog a video diary on youtube. Subtle things like this have a bigger impact

[Woodrow]

and if they silence your objections? which they are extremely capable of doing...

Their efforts at silencing speak much louder and more against them then our own protest would. Words are the most powerful weapon in todays era of the internet. Anyone trying to silence another group is almost instantly discovered and shown to be dishonorable.

Those who would try to silence, bona fide peaceful protest loose. The era of physical strength is long gone. today's strength is in the form of knowledge, intelligence and self control.

There is an old adage in the advertising world. to spread an idea, get it talked about. It makes no difference if the talk is negative or positive. silence kills a campaign, not hatred against it.

We have done much more to spread the cartoons than the Danish cartoonists have. by now they are on so many websites and home computers, that it makes no difference how often they are destroyed or what happens to the cartoonist. They will always be available to resurface, anytime somebody wants to get us stirred up and show us as being ignorant and irrational. that is the image we give by acting with violence against them.

Threats are useless as there is no way to determine who or how many people have saved those cartoons on the internet. They have even popped up on here posted by trolls that have been banned. Although they were deleted from here, they will always be able to popup again in the future, when it will serve somebodies best interest to get us angry.

[krypton6]

I dont expect anything from anyone.

Arguing or a dialog wont help: The dear Sheikh Ahmad Abu-Laban didnt want the violence at first because he expected of the Danish fascist government to apologize. They didnt apologize so he went to their office to start a dialog and make them understand how insulting this in fact was and what this could evolve into. They ignored him and refused to let him enter the building. The Sheihk returned to the mosque and during a friday speech he spoke about the cartoons, how he was ignored and that the next step would be to protest. More than 10.000 muslims protested in Copenhagen but yet the danish fascist government refused to talk to the Sheikh.
The sheikh returned to the mosque and discussed with his people what to do next. The next day the Sheikh flew to the middle east and spoke to many muslim leaders there, they decided to try again and ask for a meeting with the danish fascist government, they were still ignored. The Sheikh had nothing to do with what happend next but he was still proud of it. The danes were sent home and their embassies were burned down, muslims started boycotting danish products, basically the danes lost alot of money! But still nothing happend and Sheikh Ahmad Abu-Laban was still ignored.

The Sheikh triet to start a dialog with the danish fascist government he was ignored, danish companies lost alot of money because of the boycotting the sheikh was still ignored, danes were kicked out of the middle east but the sheikh was still ignored, danish embassies were burned down but the sheikh was yet still ignored. He triet so much so much but they kept ignoring him, they wouldn't even speak to him!

You see we've triet talking to them but they wont give us a chance. They keep insulting us in the worst ways possible, they wont even talk to us! How can they not punish this kind of act! FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Yes but what about the blasphemy part!?

You can either sit down and laugh with them, hide pretending that they will stop, or you can stop it yourself.

[------]

edit

[Uthman]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

:)

[AhlaamBella]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

:)

JAZAKALLAH KHAYR! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Just what I have been trying to say lol. JazakAllah brother

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ woodrow can i ask, if the muslims were capable of doing more then just spread spreading their point of view... would they even do it?!

times have changed so much...

[------]

:salamext:

^Exactly.

[guyabano]

Well, Woodrow explained it very good. Too bad my english is not that good, else I could explain much better than I do actually. I often don't get the right words, thats why I often cannot write down, what I like to express.
It's the same topic than Wikipedia wrote already on its website concerning a picture of Mohammed. If muslims don't like to see the picture, configure your browser that way, that the pics will be no longer displayed, instead of making ridiculous petitions to get the pictures banned. That would be actually an offence against non-muslims who like to see pics.
Same for the newspaper. It might be just an offence to muslims, so please do the same. Ignore the newspaper and don't buy it anymore, if you live in Denmark.

But this immature behavior I can see on some youngster muslims here is simply ridiculous.

Peace

[AhlaamBella]

Well, Woodrow explained it very good. Too bad my english is not that good, else I could explain much better than I do actually. I often don't get the right words, thats why I often cannot write down, what I like to express.
It's the same topic than Wikipedia wrote already on its website concerning a picture of Mohammed. If muslims don't like to see the picture, configure your browser that way, that the pics will be no longer displayed, instead of making ridiculous petitions to get the pictures banned. That would be actually an offence against non-muslims who like to see pics.
Same for the newspaper. It might be just an offence to muslims, so please do the same. Ignore the newspaper and don't buy it anymore, if you live in Denmark.

But this immature behavior I can see on some youngster muslims here is simply ridiculous.

Peace

Sorry I have to disagree there. Islamically we SHOULD do something if Islam is attacked.

[------]

:salamext:

But this immature behavior I can see on some youngster muslims here is simply ridiculous.

SUbhaan ALlaah!!!!!! And the immaturity of the danish ppl that want to reprint cartoons again and again is not visible to you?! :raging:

[krypton6]

We both know how.

While it will probably never be removed from the internet, it will be removed from the public. If a ignorant fool is killed or attacked, people will fear making these kind of insulting cartoons that for muslims are more insulting than if were it their mothers screwing a man printed on the frontpage of a newspaper.

Once the cartoons were world known, some ignorant fools started printing the cartoons on their T-shirts, yet have you ever seen someone wearing this T-shirt?
I doubt it! Why? Because they are afraid! They know that doing so will probably bring a bit of pain to them... If they didnt fear, thousands of people would be runing aroung with these T-shirts! Thanks to these 3 men, the man who killed Theo Van Gogh, and other people like them you will never see these pictures in public! The people who have printed these pictures are all afraid, they cant go out in public any longer, they have at least two body guards with them all the time!

I'm not saying that you should go out and kill the man who made these cartoons, but I unlike you do not blaim the 3 men who triet, I thank them. I would do the same, but I wont because I'm a coward.

[Cabdullahi]

[Pickthal 2:7] Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.


[Pickthal 2:10] In their hearts is a disease, and Allah increaseth their disease. A painful doom is theirs because they lie.
[Pickthal 2:11] And when it is said unto them: Make not mischief in the earth, they say: We are peacemakers only.

[truemuslim]

wat in the world is a pickthal?

[Uthman]

wat in the world is a pickthal?

It's the name of the person who made that particular translation of the Qur'an.

:)

[truemuslim]

oh...


is he muslim?

[Woodrow]

Sorry I have to disagree there. Islamically we SHOULD do something if Islam is attacked.

Yes, we have to do something. But what we have to do has to be effective.

Insanity is defined as repeating an action, but expecting a different result. Acts of violence, threats and anger, did not cause the cartoons to go away or stop being printed. we can not expect that type of action to work now.

It is necessary to try another method. The cartoons are so far spread that even if Denmark disappeared, they can still be reprinted by any newspaper, magazine or billboard company that has a computer. The enemy is not any person or nation, it is a concept that needs to be changed.

This concept can only be changed by actively promoting the Beautiful truth about Muhammad(PBUH), so that those who see the cartoons will know just how repulsive and obscene they are.

We can do this by newspaper articles, blogs on the internet, sharing the Beauty of Islam. Show people that we will not be pushed into the corner and look like rats trying to fight our way out of a trap. We can stand up, be true and show that we can hate the cartoons, without resorting to non-productive outbursts.

[Uthman]

oh...


is he muslim?

Yes. He was a revert from Christianity. :)

[truemuslim]

ok thats cool then...





btw i just think if we fight back they wud have proof of terrorists.. they cant set there minds free like i mentioned in the freestyles

thats all


ignore me tho

[Uthman]

:sl:

Yes, we have to do something. But what we have to do has to be effective.

Insanity is defined as repeating an action, but expecting a different result. Acts of violence, threats and anger, did not cause the cartoons to go away or stop being printed. we can not expect that type of action to work now.

It is necessary to try another method. The cartoons are so far spread that even if Denmark disappeared, they can still be reprinted by any newspaper, magazine or billboard company that has a computer. The enemy is not any person or nation, it is a concept that needs to be changed.

This concept can only be changed by actively promoting the Beautiful truth about Muhammad(PBUH), so that those who see the cartoons will know just how repulsive and obscene they are.

We can do this by newspaper articles, blogs on the internet, sharing the Beauty of Islam. Show people that we will not be pushed into the corner and look like rats trying to fight our way out of a trap. We can stand up, be true and show that we can hate the cartoons, without resorting to non-productive outbursts.

I agree. :) And that is exactly what sister RoseGold has been trying to say all along.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Yes, we have to do something. But what we have to do has to be effective.

Insanity is defined as repeating an action, but expecting a different result. Acts of violence, threats and anger, did not cause the cartoons to go away or stop being printed. we can not expect that type of action to work now.

It is necessary to try another method. The cartoons are so far spread that even if Denmark disappeared, they can still be reprinted by any newspaper, magazine or billboard company that has a computer. The enemy is not any person or nation, it is a concept that needs to be changed.

This concept can only be changed by actively promoting the Beautiful truth about Muhammad(PBUH), so that those who see the cartoons will know just how repulsive and obscene they are.

We can do this by newspaper articles, blogs on the internet, sharing the Beauty of Islam. Show people that we will not be pushed into the corner and look like rats trying to fight our way out of a trap. We can stand up, be true and show that we can hate the cartoons, without resorting to non-productive outbursts.

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Well said, Brother! May Allah Ta'ala rewards on you!

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima

[AhlaamBella]

Yes, we have to do something. But what we have to do has to be effective.

My points exactly :exhausted

[Cognescenti]

:salamext:

^ I'm relaxed. But I don't get what the... non Muslims want!

They want the same thing you want...to be left alone. Sometime it would be nice to build a US Embassy building somewhere with a welcoming pedestrian garden and beautiful glass architecture or get on a airplane without passing through a metal detector and taking your shoes off.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

My points exactly :exhausted

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Do not worries, sis! You did well! May Allah Ta'ala rewards on you!

[ahsan28]

The pen is mightier than the sword.

:)

I agree. Why do some individuals think that protesting or boycott of Danish goods will do anything except giving further publicity to the paper and cartoonist? What happened in the case of Salman Rushdie? Our outcry and anger only caused him earn huge revenue, which wouldn't have been possible otherwise. Burning flags and buildings will not benefit us in any way, except making things worse for the Muslims living in the West in general and Denmark in particular. The OIC must ask United Nations immediately to pursue the case with concerned Govt for taking appropriate measures, the earliest. This is the decent way of pleading our case.

[Cognescenti]

:sl:

I hope more people look at what has happened to this man and realise what danger they will be putting themselves in if they persist with abusing freedom of speech to insult other.

Oh, they will indeed. They will learn that there is a vast cultural divide and that Muslims cannot seem to get along with Western cultural values like freedom of speech. They will ask their governments to restrict immigaration of Muslims. Their views will harden and there will be an armed frontier at the Turkish border.

[------]

:salamext:

This wouldnt happen if people had RESPECT! iT comes down to the same thing! its not freedom of speech, its rude and not tolerable

[Uthman]

Is it illegal in Denmark to incite racial hatred or religious hatred?

If so, how does that sit in relation to freedom of speech?

If not, why not?

(Genuine questions)

[ahsan28]

No more cartoons !

Apologies from a non-muslim


Yes, most non-Muslim Danes can’t be bothered to be offended by depictions of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), in the same time we should not seek to cause offense when we know the outcome is going to be worse than worst.

Muslims whether living in Muslim Countries or simply among us in the Western World are human beings like you and me and have done nothing to deserve this unnecessary humiliation as do the ‘Mohammed cartoons’ cause.

Therefore this statement, offering my apologies to Muslims around the world :

“Sorry guys !” Though most of us support and defend freedom of speech, a great number among us easily appreciate the distinction between the opportunity/desire to express oneself, and the need to do so.


http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhgfwx2c_26gzqxv6f8

[IbnAbdulHakim]

whoah thats like a breath of fresh air.

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

What a relief!!

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima

[truemuslim]

:) .

[krypton6]

The violence is what's giving further publicity to the paper and the cartoonist, but at the same time the violence is also taking away the personal lives of the people who have made these cartoons and continue making, it is the violence that fears everybody and because of the fear noone dares walking around with the cartoon on his chest.

Denmark lost alot of money bcause of the boycotts and riots were brought up because of people losing their jobs because of the boycotts. The boycotts did in fact do alot and they worked very effectively.

Muslims in Denmark today are treated just as bad as how they were treated before the cartoons!

[Woodrow]

No more cartoons !

Apologies from a non-muslim


Yes, most non-Muslim Danes can’t be bothered to be offended by depictions of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH), in the same time we should not seek to cause offense when we know the outcome is going to be worse than worst.

Muslims whether living in Muslim Countries or simply among us in the Western World are human beings like you and me and have done nothing to deserve this unnecessary humiliation as do the ‘Mohammed cartoons’ cause.

Therefore this statement, offering my apologies to Muslims around the world :

“Sorry guys !” Though most of us support and defend freedom of speech, a great number among us easily appreciate the distinction between the opportunity/desire to express oneself, and the need to do so.


http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dhgfwx2c_26gzqxv6f8

An excellent example of what the power of words can be. This simple video, by a non-Muslim has done more benefit for Islam, than what would be done with 1,000,000 violent or angry acts of protest by us.

We need to listen and learn to use communication as the means to solve many of our problems. Physical actions, are needed against physical aggression. However, in terms of ideology and beliefs, physical protection is useless and only worsens things.

[krypton6]

Oh, they will indeed. They will learn that there is a vast cultural divide and that Muslims cannot seem to get along with Western cultural values like freedom of speech.

Muslims came to the west (at least to Denmark) believing that they would be accepted, treated nicely and that their religion would not be insulted in such a bad way from the government itself.

We came to Denmark knowing that they had freedom of speech but at the same time knowing all about the blasphemy part too, but aperantly insulting muslims is not considered blasphemy, but instead only insulting christians and jews is considered blasphemy.

A few years ago a local super market in Denmark made some Jesus sandals, christian priests protested and the sandals were banned. Where did "freedom of speech" go! O yeah I nearly forgot, christians were insulted so it is considered blasphemy!

[Uthman]

Something from wikipedia about incitement to ethnic or racial hatred in the UK:

Holocaust denial is not covered under this legislation, and neither is incitement to hatred against religions other than Judaism and Sikhism . This has been criticised by Muslim groups who argue that it gives preferential treatment to other religions than their own which is open to attack. As of 2005, the British government are attempting to bring in a similar law for incitement to religious hatred, but this has met with tough opposition by civil liberties groups, comedians, and others, who argue that it would stifle religious debate. It is also argued that incitement against Muslims is already covered by existing laws concerning incitement to violence.

Source

[Muezzin]

All religions should be protected from other people inciting hatred against them.

People will say, 'Ah, but what about jokey religions like Jedi, which people will insist is their religion and then complain when it's insulted or ridiculed? Even their jokey, tongue-in-cheek religion is covered by this law! It'll clog up the legal system! Nobody can say anything! What then?!'

To which I respond: 'Please. How does this work in practice? First, you might take the time to visit or call the cops. If they don't laugh you out of the station or give you grief for wasting police time, then you might choose to go to your solicitor. You might see your solicitor first. It doesn't matter. Either way, this takes time. You gather evidence of your case over a period of what will probably be months until you get a court date. Several months of your life. Over a jokey, tongue-in-cheek protest. Yeah. Sure.'

[Uthman]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Muezzin again.

[Amadeus85]

i think it is really very simple.
provoke the muslims - a few will do something that will make for good tv.
boost newspaper circulation.
increase support for right wing parties across europe.
and it doesn't cost a penny.
when tests of free speech reach this level, you can't help but wonder if free speech is really necessary for people with nothing to say.

I dont think that it's so easy.If you notice in which ideological circles are the majority of european newspapers you wouldnt think that they want to increase support for far right parties. I think that you underestimate the strength of radical secular ideology of those people who decided to print those pictures. I dont think that there is a hidden agenda in their actions. They really believe what they do and that their job is good.

[Cognescenti]

whoah thats like a breath of fresh air.

It is no mere "breath of fresh air". It is the prevailing wind. The great majority of the people in the West aren't idiots. They wouldn't wear a shirt disrepectful of Islam to a dinner party with Muslims for the same reason they wouldn't wear a shirt with a black man hanging from a noose.

The fact that you think it is a "breath of fresh air" I take as a bad sign. Do you really know any non-Muslims socially? Do they purposely offend you?

BTW..I think the reprinting of the cartoon as a means of political statement is perfectly valid.

[Cognescenti]

All religions should be protected from other people inciting hatred against them.

People will say, 'Ah, but what about jokey religions like Jedi, which people will insist is their religion and then complain when it's insulted or ridiculed? Even their jokey, tongue-in-cheek religion is covered by this law! It'll clog up the legal system! Nobody can say anything! What then?!'

To which I respond: 'Please. How does this work in practice? First, you might take the time to visit or call the cops. If they don't laugh you out of the station or give you grief for wasting police time, then you might choose to go to your solicitor. You might see your solicitor first. It doesn't matter. Either way, this takes time. You gather evidence of your case over a period of what will probably be months until you get a court date. Several months of your life. Over a jokey, tongue-in-cheek protest. Yeah. Sure.'

That is all well and good if the speaker is advocating violence, but where is the incitement to religious hatred here? Simply the fact that Muslims are offended does not mean the political cartoonist's purpose was to convince other Dane's to hate Muslims, or even that he hates Muslims himself.

[Uthman]

BTW..I think the reprinting of the cartoon as a means of political statement is perfectly valid.

What have I ever done to deserve seeing/hearing about the unjust humiliation of a figure that I hold very close to my heart? Somebody who I hold in such deep reverence?

All my life I have lived in the west. I have tried to live by Islamic values as well as being loyal to my country. Sure, there has inevitably been conflict at times but I have tried to get over it in the best way possible. I have many Non-Muslim friends so it's not like I haven't integrated with my community. My friends respect me and my faith and vice-versa. I don't believe in unjust violence, and I know that Islam does not sanction it, neither did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). What's more, I believe the majority of Muslims living in the west are like me.

So why do us innocent, law-abiding Muslims (who are the majority) deserve to have our hearts broken like this? Because of what? Because of freedom of speech?

It's inhuman. What's more, from what I have read (not only on this forum), it seems that the majority of Non-Muslims are in support of the cartoons.

How far can freedom of speech go? As far as to erode at the deepest values and convictions of a whole religious community?

I don't think many people understand how close some people are to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and how deeply they revere him. How much it hurts to hear what is being done to him.

Anyone who has researched his life knows that he was one of the most inspirational people that ever lived. I would like to share some good things that have been said about him by Non-Muslim scholars and the like:

The famous French poet Alphonse de La Martaine said in his “Historie de La Turquie, Paris, 1954: “If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad?...Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs… The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and one of the spiritual empires that is Muhammad.

As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well as, is there any man greater than he?” A Christian Anglican author, Barnaby Rogerson (in his “the prophet Muhammad: A Biography”) enthusiastically said about the prophet Muhammad: “Even when viewed in an entirely secular respective, he remains a super hero… only by marrying the best qualities of certain characters from European civilization- a combination, say, of Alexander the Great, and Aristotle, or the Emperor Constantine, St. Paul and St. Francis- can you begin to understand the measure of the man.”

I think I digressed again. :hmm:

[Keltoi]

There is a double edged sword involved here. The print media in Denmark wants to make the point that they will not be intimidated by violence, but in the process they are also repeating an action that they know is offensive to many law abiding Muslims who have no intention of violence.

The smartest thing for them to have done was to write an op-ed making the point that they will not be intimidated by violence, but will also not reprint the cartoon as a sign of respect for normal everyday Muslims.

[rookie_forever]

this whole argument reminds me of a film i watched the other day called the great debators, kinda makes me think of the last speech about the lynching mobs.

sometimes i do do feel that people are trying to say to me yes us and our laws have made you equal yet on the same turn they go and make me work ten times as hard to acheive a tenth of the status that another person gets.

Reminds me of the whole well you can't say anything against the Holocaust yet they go and call Eid Christmas, I'm like no I don't think the son of God was born on Eid, and then you realise they aren't listening anymore kinda sad really.

but hey all praise is to Allah (swt) and inshallah I try and remember that this world is only temporary the reward I need is from Allah alone I only hope that I can strive through the trials of this world.

[Cognescenti]

What have I ever done to deserve seeing/hearing about the unjust humiliation of a figure that I hold very close to my heart? Somebody who I hold in such deep reverence?

I doubt you did anything to "deserve" it. I think it is OK to inform non-Muslims how offensive it is to you in order to avoid accidental offence in the future but this notion that they must conform to your views is not going to work.

It's inhuman. What's more, from what I have read (not only on this forum), it seems that the majority of Non-Muslims are in support of the cartoons.

That's odd as it did not seem that way to me. The prevailing opinion seems to be that the right to publish the cartoon is valid, even if the cartoon itself is stupid. How do you think Americans feel when they see a bunch of idiots burning and stomping on an American flag shouting "death to America!"?

You just have to take a cleansing breath and move on.

[islamirama]

The violence is what's giving further publicity to the paper and the cartoonist, but at the same time the violence is also taking away the personal lives of the people who have made these cartoons and continue making, it is the violence that fears everybody and because of the fear noone dares walking around with the cartoon on his chest.

Denmark lost alot of money bcause of the boycotts and riots were brought up because of people losing their jobs because of the boycotts. The boycotts did in fact do alot and they worked very effectively.

Muslims in Denmark today are treated just as bad as how they were treated before the cartoons!

May the Muslims do another boycott and teach this pigs another lesson. Hit them where it hurts. may Allah destroy such arrogant animals who diss his beloved Prophet!

amen!

[ahsan28]

I think it is OK to inform non-Muslims how offensive it is to you in order to avoid accidental offence in the future but this notion that they must conform to your views is not going to work.

That's odd as it did not seem that way to me. The prevailing opinion seems to be that the right to publish the cartoon is valid, even if the cartoon itself is stupid. How do you think Americans feel when they see a bunch of idiots burning and stomping on an American flag shouting "death to America!"?

Not being in agreement and wilful humiliation are poles apart. Again there is a marked difference between criticising a particular country mainly due to its biased policies against Muslims, aimed at pushing them against the walls and deliberate attempts to mock a particular religion.

[Whatsthepoint]

Muslims came to the west (at least to Denmark) believing that they would be accepted, treated nicely and that their religion would not be insulted in such a bad way from the government itself.

The danish government did not insult anyone. They sticked to their beliefs that the freedom of speech is a fundamental right, that's all. You can't expect them to apologize for a bunch of cartoons in a small newspaper. Nor should they apologize for ignoring the sheik after they clearly told him what their stance is.

We came to Denmark knowing that they had freedom of speech but at the same time knowing all about the blasphemy part too, but aperantly insulting muslims is not considered blasphemy, but instead only insulting christians and jews is considered blasphemy.

The hell you knew the blasphemy part... Nobody knew it until the cartoon controversy. And anyway, if you knew all about it you'd also know that it hasn't been enforced for decades.

A few years ago a local super market in Denmark made some Jesus sandals, christian priests protested and the sandals were banned. Where did "freedom of speech" go! O yeah I nearly forgot, christians were insulted so it is considered blasphemy!

The supermarket decide to withdraw them. I'm sure the state had nothing to do with it.

[Uthman]

Hello Cognescenti,

A few things I want to say. :)

I doubt you did anything to "deserve" it. I think it is OK to inform non-Muslims how offensive it is to you in order to avoid accidental offence in the future

You might have misunderstood me. It wasn't you or your post that I was offended by. I was still on about the cartoons! Perhaps I should have been clearer. My apologies.

But in case you did understand me, well I fail to see how the offence caused by the publication of the cartoons could be accidental. I would think it would be obvious that it was going to cause offence.

but this notion that they must conform to your views is not going to work.

This bit got me a bit confused.com. I fully accept that nobody must conform to my views. Forgive me if I either said or implied it as I do not believe it to be the case.

That's odd as it did not seem that way to me. The prevailing opinion seems to be that the right to publish the cartoon is valid, even if the cartoon itself is stupid.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Although I accept that the publishers did have a legal right to publish the cartoons, I do not feel that they should have this right, the reasons for which I hope are clear.

How do you think Americans feel when they see a bunch of idiots burning and stomping on an American flag shouting "death to America!"?

I can imagine that they will probably feel the same way that I do when I hear about the cartoons, and it goes without saying that they have every right to feel that way.

You just have to take a cleansing breath and move on.

Perhaps you're right. But as much as I would like to close my eyes and become blind, close my ears and become deaf, it is unfortunately not possible.

I guess I just need to just learn to accept the facts of life. Immaturity, hypocrisy and ignorance are just some of those facts.

Btw, I hope you didn't see my previous post as a personal attack on you. I should have exercised more wisdom in the way I presented it, sorry.

Regards

[Intisar]

Unintentionally? Do you mean the Danish imams who toured the Middle East actively trying to raise awareness of the cartoons?

I meant the fact that when they go crazy, they're unintentionally drawing more attention to the newspapers.

We have to act in an Islamic manner. Now more than ever, we have to cling on to our Deen and emulate the example of Prophet Muhammad (sallalahu aleyhi wasallam)

Remember the story of Prophet Muhammad's visit to Ta'if? He just went there to invite the people to the way of their lord, Islam. But remember what they did to him? They threw stones at him, such that he was bleeding so much that his feet clogged to his shoes. And then, after he retreated, the angel Jibril (Gabriel) came to him and said that if he so wished, he would make is so that the surrounding mountains would bury the city and it's inhabitants.. But what was his reply? He said:

"Leave them alone. Yes, today the people ignored my message. But I pray that their progeny will be a different group of people. I pray that they will accept Islam."

Also remember the following words of his:

“The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.”

It is this kind of character and behaviour that is befitting of a Muslim. If only the majority of Muslims today would return to the true message of Islam, there would not be such a crisis surrounding our religion today.

There is something that I would like people to read as well. Words so eloquent I could not have put it better myself:

Muhammad in Taif by Luqman Ali

:w:

:thumbs_up Jazaki Allaahu khayr.

they are respecting it............its a cartoon

How so? Drawing a picture of our Prophet (SAWS), not only that..but strapping a bomb to his (SAW) head? That's really respecting our deen, huh? :rollseyes

:salamext:

And I hate it when Muslims take that ^ attitude, it annoys the *censored* out of me, because how do they expect other people to respect their religion, when the Muslims themselves aren't!

Mashaa Allaah, perfectly said.

There is a fine line between pure disrespect and freedom of speech. It's only freedom of speech when Islam is insulted. :rollseyes

We'll all meet our creator one day, and we'll have to answer to him, and who knows what good might come out of this (as hard as it is to believe)? People may subsequently want to research about Islaam and come back to the fold of Islaam (revert) inshaa Allaah.

Alhamdulilah, let's take this time to reflect upon ourselves and act according to the sunnah of the Prophet (SAWS). The strong one is the patient one, so let's have sabr guys.

:w:

[Noora]

boycotts are very effective...and should be used by muslims all over the world..i agree be smarter and hit them where it hurts as opposed to violence which i dont agree with. They can express their freedom of speach and we can express the right not to support their economy and buy dutch product...you would be surprised how much of their products you use, esp in muslim countries. Non violent methods to stand up for your rights and beliefs....

[Grace Seeker]

Yes, exactly. They know the consequences of their actions and if the right to insult and offend is so important to them, more important than respect for the beliefs of others, that they will risk their lives for it, then, hey, that's up to them. Just as long as they don't start complaining when someone cracks and does something stupid and attempts to kill them, because they KNOW what they are facing and what kind of trouble they are likely to cause.

But Malaikah, that doesn't address the other side of the question. Why would it be so important for you to take (or at least apparently condone the taking) or another's life for it? People burn the president of my country in efigy all the time, we don't go to war over that, but it appears the Muslims are willing to go to war over this.

As a Christian I shudder when I see someone descrate an image of Jesus, but again I would not kill a person for this. Why, over a drawing of Muhammad, even though it is done in a demeaning way, should that be seen as worthy of death? Especially from adherents of a religion that prides itself on being a religion of peace? That just doesn't make sense to me.

How so? Drawing a picture of our Prophet (SAWS), not only that..but strapping a bomb to his (SAW) head? That's really respecting our deen, huh? :rollseyes
:w:

No, it is not. But it response to it seems all out of proportion to the actual offense.

[AhlaamBella]

No, it is not. But it response to it seems all out of proportion to the actual offense.

You need to understand why muslims are so angered. Then decide whether their rage is justified

[taybe smiler]

muslims must fight all these newspapers

We must fight these people by our arms if we cant by our tongues If we cant .. by our hearts wad'alika ad'af al iman

[Grace Seeker]

You need to understand why muslims are so angered. Then decide whether their rage is justified

Well, let's see. I asked the question WHY? several times above.

Instead of giving me a lecture that I need to understand, how about actually taking the time to help me understand. Because quite clearly, I do not. Nor do I think does the rest of the non-Muslim world. I have been trying to listen and seeking to understand, but as of yet it is exactly what you called it, it is rage. And rage induced violence is never justified violence, it is just more rage, i.e. out of control emotions.

Are you telling me that Muslim thinking boils down to something as simple as rage and emotions acted on without the benefit of clear thought? (See the comment directly above.) That hardly seems worthy of your prophet, let alone Allah.

[AhlaamBella]

Well, let's see. I asked the question WHY? several times above.

Instead of giving me a lecture that I need to understand, how about actually taking the time to help me understand. Because quite clearly, I do not. Nor do I think does the rest of the non-Muslim world. I have been trying to listen and seeking to understand, but as of yet it is exactly what you called it, it is rage. And rage induced violence is never justified violence, it is just more rage, i.e. out of control emotions.

Are you telling me that Muslim thinking boils down to something as simple as rage and emotions acted on without the benefit of clear thought? (See the comment directly above.) That hardly seems worthy of your prophet, let alone Allah.

Firstly, I think you should take the time to read my posts before this. Im ssuggesting to channel our anger ina peaceful way. By using articles etc.

Secondly, havn't you been on this forum long enough to see the respect and love all muslims hold for the prophet Muhammed p.b.u.h?? I won't say 'our' prophet because he was sent with a message for 'mankind'. That includes you.

Those cartoons are simple straightforward disrespect for Muslims and Islam. Have muslims EVER done the same about other religions?? And if they have, do all muslims back them up?????

[Grace Seeker]

Firstly, I think you should take the time to read my posts before this. Im ssuggesting to channel our anger ina peaceful way. By using articles etc.

Secondly, havn't you been on this forum long enough to see the respect and love all muslims hold for the prophet Muhammed p.b.u.h?? I won't say 'our' prophet because he was sent with a message for 'mankind'. That includes you.

Those cartoons are simple straightforward disrespect for Muslims and Islam. Have muslims EVER done the same about other religions?? And if they have, do all muslims back them up?????

Well what you said is second I will take first.

First, the length of time I have or have not been on this forum is irrelevant to whether I have enough background to see the respect and love all Muslims hold for the prophet Muhammad. My daughter is Muslim. I think I have an idea.

I've come here asking questions. I've asked them before, and as yet have not found the answers very helpful by way of promoting understanding. Maybe it is something you can't communicate to others. Or maybe it is something you don't care to take the time to actually deal with someone who comes seeking to understand. May you just want to live in that rage you spoke of. I guess that's your choice. But I find it a sad one that the first thing (correction, second) you choose to do with someone who is seeking to understand is to disrespect them, at the same time you are demanding respect for your prophet. Do you even get the irony?


As to your closing questions, "Have muslims EVER done the same about other religions??" Quite simply, Yes. Not all Muslims. But some have.
"And if they have, do all muslims back them up?" Again, not all Muslims. But some have.

I think you will note that not all non-Muslims have backed up the cartoonists depiction. Not all papers have published it. I can understand how it is offensive. I'm not Muslim and I resent that portrayal of Islam as violent at its core, which is what those pictures were really about -- not demeaning Muhammad, but all Muslims in one broad swoop. What I don't understand is why it should incite violence? Doesn't acting violently in response, just make the cartoonist's point?

I am glad that you are suggesting the anger be channelled in peaceful ways. I am glad to see that you are not alone, and that this actually is the majority response. But what of the response of taybe smiler above? What of those who find in a drawing justification for murder and even war? This seems to be a disproportional response. And far too many who are themselves not involved in the violence are giving encouragement to those who are with comments like "We must fight these people by our arms if we can't by our tongues..." Yes, I recognize its source, that too is part of the problem.

When the people of my church ask me questions about Islam, why this? or why that? I ask them to try to think not from their own perspective, but from that of those they are asking about. They understand the natural anger because they remember when photographer Andres Serrano exhibited a picture entitled "Piss Christ" -- it depicted a small plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. But what they don't understand is the way that anger is experssed.

Woodrow makes sense:

Sadly we allow ourselves to become angered over the sins of others. It is fine to hate the sins, but it is wrong to react to them in a manner that is just as bad or even worse.

The goal of the cartoons seems to be one of showing the world that Muslims are immature, ignorant and prone to emotional outbursts. Our reaction often solidifies this belief. As a result we give the impression that Islam is backwards, oppressive and dangerous.This is the image we are promoting, not an image of strength or one of reason. Our behavior seems to be our worse enemy.

So, as I ask the members of my church to think like a Muslim in order to understand where the anger comes from over what they see as simply a political cartoon, I also ask the Muslim world to think like a western newspaper. I doubt if the Danish have a motive of trying to stir up the Muslim world just to make Islam look bad in order to accomplish some other end. (Though I don't put it past George Bush do something like that, but that would be another story altogether.) So, what might their reasoning be?

Well the article itself gives some clues:

1. The move came one day after Danish authorities arrested three people allegedly plotting a "terror-related assassination" of Kurt Westergaard, the cartoonist behind the drawing.
2. And the newspaper they were printed in is on record saying, "We are doing this to document what is at stake in this case, and to unambiguously back and support the freedom of speech that we as a newspaper always will defend,"

I think it makes some sense to take them at their word. It is part of a news story because of the arrest, and the paper reprints the pictures as a way or reporting on (by way of reminder) what was at issue originally. Hopefully, people (non-Muslims that is) can look at the pictures with fresh eyes. For his part, the artist claims that he did not do it to insult the Prophet, but "that he wanted his cartoon to say that some people exploited the prophet to legitimize terror." Surely you can recognize that some people have indeed done this, they have tried to make Islam into something different than it truly is. Now, they didn't convey that message to the average Muslim. How much better would the world have been if instead of showing rage, the Muslim world had protested, but done so peacefully. It would have been a great lesson to all those who are of the opinion that Islam is a nothing but a religion of violence. And it certainly would have done wonders for teaching others to view the world from a perspective other than just their own point of view. But no, while certainly not every Muslims respond violently, so many gave did that it became worldwide news.

Now, you have before you a second opportunity to respond, to either have a conversation or to have a riot. I will wait to see if it is the wisdom of folks like Woodrow that we see this time, or if once again it is the hot-headedness of the taybe smilers that become the face of Islam.

In the mean time, I pray for peace. And, yes, I also pray for respect and understanding.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well, let's see. I asked the question WHY? several times above.

Instead of giving me a lecture that I need to understand, how about actually taking the time to help me understand. Because quite clearly, I do not. Nor do I think does the rest of the non-Muslim world. I have been trying to listen and seeking to understand, but as of yet it is exactly what you called it, it is rage. And rage induced violence is never justified violence, it is just more rage, i.e. out of control emotions.

Are you telling me that Muslim thinking boils down to something as simple as rage and emotions acted on without the benefit of clear thought? (See the comment directly above.) That hardly seems worthy of your prophet, let alone Allah.

Same post replicated?

[AvarAllahNoor]

Well, let's see. I asked the question WHY? several times above.

Instead of giving me a lecture that I need to understand, how about actually taking the time to help me understand. Because quite clearly, I do not. Nor do I think does the rest of the non-Muslim world. I have been trying to listen and seeking to understand, but as of yet it is exactly what you called it, it is rage. And rage induced violence is never justified violence, it is just more rage, i.e. out of control emotions.

Are you telling me that Muslim thinking boils down to something as simple as rage and emotions acted on without the benefit of clear thought? (See the comment directly above.) That hardly seems worthy of your prophet, let alone Allah.

If I may jump in here....

I'm a Sikh, and we're told to respect all religions, because It was God who introduced them to the world. Now, as Sikhs are tolerant, we do not appreciate attacks on Sikhism or on our Gurus or our Holy Scriptures. Nobody should be allowed to make a mockery of another persons religion! It can't be classed as 'freedom of speech' because it's PROVOCATION - Incitement of hatred expressed at a religion. I get enraged when Jesus is mocked, but as Christians you don't seem to kick up a fuss, maybe if you did it would occur less. Somethings are SACRED and should not me defiled in such a way!

In our recent history, we've had our holiest shrine in Amritsar (City of Nectar) The Golden Temple attacked (in 1984) this resulted in the assassination of indira gandhi the primeminster of india. This was just. A sect of hindus mocked the Sikh Gurus they were killed by Sikhs. Only last May another cult leader mocked the Tenth Sikh Master Guru Gobind Sngh Ji Mahraaj Sahib, Sikhs were rioting all over india (for some reason they don't report this like they do other events) Last week his vehicle was blown up by Sikhs, but he survived. (He'll be dealt with) This is what happens when the sentiments of a particular religion are attacked. Not to mention the Sikh protests in England, about a play in Birmingham depicting a rape in a Sikh Gurdwara. Sikhs gathered and demonstated (as did Church Priests, they supported the Sikhs) and the play was removed, Yes it got violent, but like i say, there is a LINE and if it's CROSSED, well then expect a response!

Point being, everybody feels the same about their religion, so others should respect this! Making pictures of Mohammed will only enrage, nothing more! :sunny:

[Cognescenti]

If I may jump in here....

I'm a Sikh, and we're told to respect all religions, because It was God who introduced them to the world. Now, as Sikhs are tolerant, we do not appreciate attacks on Sikhism or on our Gurus or our Holy Scriptures. Nobody should be allowed to make a mockery of another persons religion! It can't be classed as 'freedom of speech' because it's PROVOCATION - Incitement of hatred expressed at a religion. I get enraged when Jesus is mocked, but as Christians you don't seem to kick up a fuss, maybe if you did it would occur less. Somethings are SCARED and should not me defiled in such a way!

In our recent history, we've had our holiest shrine in Amritsar (City of Nectar) The Golden Temple attacked (in 1984) this resulted in the assassination of indira gandhi the primeminster of india. This was just. A sect of hindus mocked the Sikh Gurus they were killed by Sikhs. Only last May another cult leader mocked the Tenth Sikh Master Guru Gobind Sngh Ji Mahraaj Sahib, Sikhs were rioting all over india (for some reason they don't report this like they do other events) Last week his vehicle was blown up by Sikhs, but he survived. (He'll b dealt with) This is what happens when the sentiments of a particular religion is attacked. Not to mention the Sikh protests in England, about a play in Birmingham depicting a rape in a Sikh Gurdwara. Sikhs gathered and demonstated (as did Church Priests, they supported the Sikhs) and the play was removed, Yes it got violent, but like i say, there is a LINE and if it's CROSSED, well then expect a response!

Point being, everybody feels the same about their religion, so others should respect this! Making pictures of Mohammed will only enrage, nothing more! :sunny:

Did Indira Ghandi have 100% control over the many hundreds of millions of Hindus? A grievance with those who shared some of her beliefs is not justification for murdering her. She may have actually wished to live. I can't believe you said that.

Is it prudent for a newspaper to publish a picture of Muhammed in 2007....No, not really, unless they want to spend a lot on security.

It is acceptible for angry Muslims to plot to kill an old guy over a stupid cartoon....No.

"I get enraged when Jesus is mocked, but as Christians you don't seem to kick up a fuss, maybe if you did it would occur less. Somethings are SCARED and should not me defiled in such a way!"

Jesus himself was mocked by his executioners. He forgave them. You should try it.

[Tania]

I think the newspaper could not find anything else to increase their income only by doing this. :-[

[Cabdullahi]

I think the newspaper could not find anything else to increase their income only by doing this. :-[

Thats true sister,publishing it for THE SECOND time just shows how pathetic theyre

[------]

:salamext:

I was thinking about this all night, and my viewpoint is:

Just ignore.

[Cabdullahi]

what annoys me the most is when they say freedom to express what ever we want and then drawing a cartoon thats just childish

[------]

:salamext:

Allaah won't guide them until they wish to be guided. Leave them alone brother, they will taste their punishment soon Inshaa Allaah.

[krypton6]

The danish government did not insult anyone. They sticked to their beliefs that the freedom of speech is a fundamental right, that's all. You can't expect them to apologize for a bunch of cartoons in a small newspaper. Nor should they apologize for ignoring the sheik after they clearly told him what their stance is.

Last year the Danish fascist government proudly stood up and informed everybody that he did not see anything wrong with these cartoons and that it is the full right of someone to make these cartoons. Freedom of speech is far from the fundamental of Denmark but anyways, blasphemy has bin there for much longer and if anything then blasphemy is The fundamental of the danish society!

Jyllands Posten is not a small newspaper, its one the well....... Biggest!? They wouldn't even talk to Ahmad Abu-Laban, what loss could a dialog have brought?

The hell you knew the blasphemy part... Nobody knew it until the cartoon controversy. And anyway, if you knew all about it you'd also know that it hasn't been enforced for decades.

Your own ignorancy has nothing to do with what I know and what I dont know! I know the law here and how the society works, respecting others is the fundamental! Take that away and there will be no society. We didnt just randomly chose Denmark to live in!

The supermarket decide to withdraw them. I'm sure the state had nothing to do with it.

Did I not mention that the sandals were banned!? Guess who banned them!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Did Indira Ghandi have 100% control over the many hundreds of millions of Hindus? A grievance with those who shared some of her beliefs is not justification for murdering her. She may have actually wished to live. I can't believe you said that.

It wasn't the Hindus who went into the Golden Temple armed to the eyes with tanks and guns. (well only a few idiots in the army) It's like if an army was sent into Mecca, and shot at the Kaaba! Or Holiest shrines of the Jews or Christians. She gave the order, and she said she knew she'd signed her death warrant the day she gave tbe order. (How right she was) She was the female version of Hitler. Genocide of the minorites.

Is it prudent for a newspaper to publish a picture of Muhammed in 2007....No, not really, unless they want to spend a lot on security.

Have they nothing better to do? Can't they join Stan Lee instead and make a few more comic heroes....

It is acceptible for angry Muslims to plot to kill an old guy over a stupid cartoon....No.

Hmmm, not sure about the killing, but he should at least be dealt with by the courts for hurting the religious sentiments of the Muslims!

"I get enraged when Jesus is mocked, but as Christians you don't seem to kick up a fuss, maybe if you did it would occur less. Somethings are SCARED and should not me defiled in such a way!"

Jesus himself was mocked by his executioners. He forgave them. You should try it

Yes, he did. He was Prophet. Dhan Guru Arjan Dev Ji himself was tourtured and killed by the Mughals, he too sat on the hot plate asked for God to forgive them. But Sikhs are entitled to defend what we regard as sacred. It will always be this way.

Gur Fateh

[crayon]

Something from wikipedia about incitement to ethnic or racial hatred in the UK:

Holocaust denial is not covered under this legislation, and neither is incitement to hatred against religions other than Judaism and Sikhism . This has been criticised by Muslim groups who argue that it gives preferential treatment to other religions than their own which is open to attack. As of 2005, the British government are attempting to bring in a similar law for incitement to religious hatred, but this has met with tough opposition by civil liberties groups, comedians, and others, who argue that it would stifle religious debate. It is also argued that incitement against Muslims is already covered by existing laws concerning incitement to violence.

Source

:eek:

I had no idea about this. Are you kidding me? How is that fair? The law should either apply to all religions, or none.

I'm still in awe of how this law can be supported if it doesn't apply to everyone..

[AvarAllahNoor]

Holocaust denial[/URL] is not covered under this legislation, and neither is incitement to hatred against religions other than Judaism and Sikhism . This has been criticised by Muslim groups who argue that it gives preferential treatment to other religions than their own which is open to attack.[/URL]

I agree! - But it should also cover other religions too. It's only fair.

[------]

:salamext:

^ Too right.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

the Danish fascist government

Denmark is run by fascists now? News to me.

Is this really the level of political debate that we've sunk to here on the forum?

Something from wikipedia about incitement to ethnic or racial hatred in the UK:

Holocaust denial is not covered under this legislation, and neither is incitement to hatred against religions other than Judaism and Sikhism . This has been criticised by Muslim groups who argue that it gives preferential treatment to other religions than their own which is open to attack. As of 2005, the British government are attempting to bring in a similar law for incitement to religious hatred, but this has met with tough opposition by civil liberties groups, comedians, and others, who argue that it would stifle religious debate. It is also argued that incitement against Muslims is already covered by existing laws concerning incitement to violence.

Straightforwardly unfair - I agree.

Peace

[guyabano]

I still wonder what is discussed here? Nothing will change anyway, the pictures will be posted - BASTA !

After that, standard procedure: Boykott of muslims, burning flags, yelling, screaming, , bombing threats, again more antipathty against middle east. all in all, new fuel to keep the fire alive.

Anyway, I always here this: 'Allah protect us'.
Oh, so well, there should be no problem. The bad guys will be punished and will burn in hell, so why this cinema ?

Can me move on to some new news?

Salamat po !

Peace

[Grace Seeker]

I think the newspaper could not find anything else to increase their income only by doing this. :-[

Balderdash!!

Thats true sister,publishing it for THE SECOND time just shows how pathetic theyre

More BALDERDASH!!!!

:salamext:

I was thinking about this all night, and my viewpoint is:

Just ignore.

Finally some WISDOM!!

what annoys me the most is when they say freedom to express what ever we want and then drawing a cartoon thats just childish

That's right. Freedom of expression is not about the quality of that expression it allows for everything from Rembrant paintings to comic books, and yes even insulting cartoons of other people's religion. And it says that if we are insulted we will grant them the freedom to make their comments and then we have the freedom to make ours -- in print, or even protesting in the streets, but NOT with violence!!



This whole ugly thing (and I grant that it is ugly) would never have come up again except that some folks kept stirring the pot with their plans to assassinate the author of the cartoon. That very action made it newsworthy. And any western paper will print what they think is newsworthy even if you and I don't like it. Why? Because they have the freedom to do so. They don't do it just to sell papers. That isn't where they make their money. They make their money from selling ad space in those papers.

And to sell ad space they have to be putting out a paper, so they are always looking for news. Now, when they have a slow newsday, a broken down washing machine can suddenly become "newsworthy", but in general newspapers use the dictum "if it bleeds it leads". So, plots to kill someone (especially when associated with past violence) are going to grab headlines.

If you don't like the beast, I suggest you don't feed the beast. Those who are suggesting violent responses are what I call pot-stirrers. For better or worse, they keep the issue in the news. And I promise you that if you keep stirring the put long enough, just like with a washing machine, everything will come to the top again, and then the pictures will be back in print yet one more time. Of course, you could quite stirring the put, and then they wouldn't be newworthy any more. That's why AhLÄÄM's response is not only a wise one, it is the only one that will accomplish the ends so many claim they desire.

[AhlaamBella]

Thats true sister,publishing it for THE SECOND time just shows how pathetic theyre

True. Yet their intentions are clearly to spark some sort of reaction from the muslims. Didn't they see what happened last time? :heated:

[Grace Seeker]

True. Yet their intentions are clearly to spark some sort of reaction from the muslims. Didn't they see what happened last time? :heated:

I couldn't disagree more.

There is no advantage to the newspaper to spark anything one way or the other. They simply want to put out the news and sell ad space in their paper. The assassination attempt was news. I agree that they could have simply written an article without reprinting the photos, but from their perspective they have no intent of being bullied into silence if they want to print something. That is what motivates them. They probably could predict that at least some Muslims would be just as incensed this time as the last time, but obviously that is less important to them than exercising their "right" to free press. Now, Muslims can object to the paper's wisdom and lack or sensitivity in how they exercised it, but I think it is hogwash to suggest that they did it with the intent to spark some sort of reaction from Muslims. That just doesn't make any sense from the paper's point of view. As I said, most likely that anticipated it, and (whether folly or not) counted it worth the cost of exercising what they saw as their free speach rights.

[AhlaamBella]

I couldn't disagree more.

Why am I not surprised?

There is no advantage to the newspaper to spark anything one way or the other. They simply want to put out the news and sell ad space in their paper. The assassination attempt was news. I agree that they could have simply written an article without reprinting the photos, but from their perspective they have no intent of being bullied into silence if they want to print something.

Yet when a muslim excercises their freedom of speech they are arrested for inciting hatred

[AvarAllahNoor]

I couldn't disagree more.

There is no advantage to the newspaper to spark anything one way or the other. They simply want to put out the news and sell ad space in their paper. The assassination attempt was news. I agree that they could have simply written an article without reprinting the photos, but from their perspective they have no intent of being bullied into silence if they want to print something. That is what motivates them. They probably could predict that at least some Muslims would be just as incensed this time as the last time, but obviously that is less important to them than exercising their "right" to free press. Now, Muslims can object to the paper's wisdom and lack or sensitivity in how they exercised it, but I think it is hogwash to suggest that they did it with the intent to spark some sort of reaction from Muslims. That just doesn't make any sense from the paper's point of view. As I said, most likely that anticipated it, and (whether folly or not) counted it worth the cost of exercising what they saw as their free speach rights.

If it's freedom of speech, then those that appose it have the right to freedom of expression (by using protests and violence where need be) It's a two way street my dear chap! :D

[Cognescenti]

If it's freedom of speech, then those that appose it have the right to freedom of expression (by using protests and violence where need be) It's a two way street my dear chap! :D

Are you just sporting with us or do you really not see the difference?

[krypton6]

Greetings,


Denmark is run by fascists now? News to me.

Is this really the level of political debate that we've sunk to here on the forum?

In Denmark you have two wings inside the government competing each other, you have the right and the left. While the right wing is the most accepting, respecting and most caring wing, the left wing is the exact opposit, they stand for fascism although they shurely dont want to admit it.
Just around 50% of the danes see the left wing as fascists and extreme nationalists, while the other 50% support the left wing due to their ignorancy about Islam and quite generally hate towards darker skinned.
The current Danish prime minister is supporting an extreme Danish fascist who have found her away into the government, making the prime minister a fascist.

[Cognescenti]

...Yet when a muslim excercises their freedom of speech they are arrested for inciting hatred

Where exactly would that be?

It's permissible to say from your soapbox "the kuffar are pigs" (which is a familiar endearing phrase around here).

It's not permissible to say "now, grab these machetes over here and let's us chop up some filthy kuffar" or "hey guys...what say we blow up the Lincoln Tunnel?"

Both are real crowd pleasers, but the second type could get you into some trouble.

Please tell you can discern the difference.

[Cognescenti]

In Denmark you have two wings inside the government competing each other, you have the right and the left. While the right wing is the most accepting, respecting and most caring wing, the left wing is the exact opposit, they stand for fascism although they shurely dont want to admit it.
Just around 50% of the danes see the left wing as fascists and extreme nationalists, while the other 50% have voted for the left wing due to their ignorancy about Islam and quite generally hate towards darker skinned.
The current Danish prime minister is supporting an extreme Danish fascist who have found her away into the government, making the prime minister a fascist.

You don't know what the term "fascist" means, do you?

"Left wing fascist"?????:hmm:

I suspect the irony of calling the Danes fascists after what happened to them in WWII is lost on you as well?

[krypton6]

By fascist I mean nationalism and racism, forget the rest.

[AhlaamBella]

Where exactly would that be?

It's permissible to say from your soapbox "the kuffar are pigs" (which is a familiar endearing phrase around here).

It's not permissible to say "now, grab these machetes over here and let's us chop up some filthy kuffar" or "hey guys...what say we blow up the Lincoln Tunnel?"

Both are real crowd pleasers, but the second type could get you into some trouble.

Please tell you can discern the difference.

A muslim doesn't necessaril have to be as obvious as that. I know of a few cases, which I would mention but don't know if I'm allowed to. They didnt make the press. But for simply speaking as they feel (with no violence mentioned!) but were silnced as it didn't do the government any favours

[AvarAllahNoor]

Are you just sporting with us or do you really not see the difference?

Devils Advocate :D

Though you can't tell me delibrately offending a religion by whatever means is acceptable?

[Keltoi]

Devils Advocate :D

Though you can't tell me delibrately offending a religion by whatever means is acceptable?

Acceptable? Yes, because freedom of expression is a right in Denmark. Comic parody is a form of expression, regardless of how distasteful it might be. There are a thousand things found in the media that I personally find distasteful, but I would not alter their freedom to express a distasteful product. That is personal freedom, both the good, the bad, and the ugly. Censoring something because it is offensive opens up a door that can't be closed again....who decides what is offensive?

[Grace Seeker]

Why am I not surprised?

Yet when a muslim excercises their freedom of speech they are arrested for inciting hatred

This two is wrong. I am not saying that such travesties of justice should be met with silence. Go in the street and protest them. If you have such protest around here, as long as it is done peacably, I'll join you in the march.

If it's freedom of speech, then those that appose it have the right to freedom of expression (by using protests and violence where need be) It's a two way street my dear chap! :D

I'm glad you later said you were being a devil's advocate. Violence is the devil's tool, regardless which religion employs it. Remove the violence and I agree with you, it is a two-way street and freedom of expression needs to go both ways.

It's permissible to say from your soapbox "the kuffar are pigs" (which is a familiar endearing phrase around here).

It's not permissible to say "now, grab these machetes over here and let's us chop up some filthy kuffar" or "hey guys...what say we blow up the Lincoln Tunnel?"

Both are real crowd pleasers, but the second type could get you into some trouble.

Please tell you can discern the difference.

Exactly!! The first is free expression. I may or may not agree with it, support it or be offended by it, that isn't relevant. It should be allowed so that the free interchange of ideas (however repugnant) can lead (hopefully) to an constructive and respectful interchange in which we can all learn from one another and grow as both individuals and as a society.

The second takes us down a completely different road; one which we do not want to venture down and need to be stopped before we get started.

Though you can't tell me delibrately offending a religion by whatever means is acceptable?[/B]

Acceptable in the moral sense? No. It is not acceptable and it is right for people to speak against it. But permissible in the legal sense? Yes, it is and should be.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Acceptable? Yes, because freedom of expression is a right in Denmark. Comic parody is a form of expression, regardless of how distasteful it might be. There are a thousand things found in the media that I personally find distasteful, but I would not alter their freedom to express a distasteful product. That is personal freedom, both the good, the bad, and the ugly. Censoring something because it is offensive opens up a door that can't be closed again....who decides what is offensive?

Religion should be out of bounds! - Nothing else is asked for. :happy:

[AvarAllahNoor]

Acceptable in the moral sense? No. It is not acceptable and it is right for people to speak against it. But permissible in the legal sense? Yes, it is and should be.

Nothing is gained by insulting Prophets. If one gains some kind of pleasure please enlighten me? I find it most upsetting when Sikhism is attacked. And other people feel the same when their religion is. :cry:

[Intisar]

May Allaah guide us all. There's no sense in continuing a topic that will just go in circles.

:threadclo