should sikhs have right to self determination? on khalistan?

[565]

sikh right to self determination

[islamirama]

Heck yea! those guys need their own land like Muslims created Pakistan. The Hindu extremists don't like anyone, even the Christian indians are not safe there. Sikh are a proud people and i think they would get along with Pakistan a lot more than hindustan does right now.

[Roasted Cashew]

Though I am originally from Pakistan, this is only the second time I'm hearing about Khalistan. Before this I read it in one of the posts by "AvarAllahNoor". Yet, I don't know one thing about it. Is something going on over there? I personally like Sikhs very much and can speak Punjabi as well and it makes me sad to know that we had a bloody history during the "partition".

[rookie_forever]

Although I agree that they should have the right to their own laws etc, I kinda think that making yet another new country in the world won't really help anyone, might give some people some pride, but in the greater scheme of things what will it accomplish?

Just my opinion so correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be better to actually sort out the country that Sikhs are in rather then making a brand new state although, just have the judical system include any kind of laws etc.

Look at the religious countries across the world, is any one of them actually all that religious, actually following their religion properly, as much as Sikhs are great people there are good, bad and ugly in every faith and it's the "bad and ugly" that somehow make theor place near the top of the chain in politics and thus wreck a country before it can even begin.

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[AvarAllahNoor]

How on earth did I miss this THREAD!!

A brief History of Khalistan (Land Of Pure)

Republic of Khalistan, Is the to a proposed nation-state based on theocratic principles . It was instigated by Sikh leaders who believed they, like Muslims of Pakistan, Sikhs too should get a new state. The Sikhs had an independent state until 1849 until the British invaded and under the Treaty of Amritsar the state was to restored to the Sikhs once Duleep Singh attained the age of 21.

The geographical boundaries of Khalistan will include current East Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pardesh, part of Rajasthan and small part of Uttar Pardesh. River Ravi on the west and river Jamuna on the east will be some of the boundary lines between Khalistan & Pakistan, Khalistan & India respectively. In the north, part of Himalayan range and in south, part of Thar Desert will make the geographical boundaries of Khalistan.

In the 1980s, some of Khalistan proponents turned to militancy, resulting in Indian Army's counter-militancy operations. In one such operation, the Operation Blue Star, the Sikh holy shrine was damaged by the Indian Army, resulting in widespread criticism of the Indian Government. The Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her two Sikh bodyguards, and several hundred Sikhs were massacred in the following riots. In January 1986, the Golden Temple was occupied by hundreds of militants belonging to All India Sikh Students Federation and Damdami Taksal[2]. On January 26, 1986, the gathering passed a resolution (gurmattā) favouring the creation of Khalistan. Khalistan was envisaged by its proponents as a Sikh-majority state, which opponents argued would become a theocracy.

Under the Constitution of India, secessionism is forbidden, and various rebel groups in favour of Khalistan fought an insurgency against the government of India. Indian security forces suppressed the secessionist insurgency in Punjab in the early 1990s[3], and since then there has been little further pro-Khalistan agitation within Punjab, although international pro-Khalistan organizations such as Dal Khalsa are still active outside India

The movement is again upand running in Panjab. Pakistan has helped Sikhs, and have looked after the Gurudwaras in Pakistan with respect, and embrace Sikh Pilgrims when they visit the Birth Place of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaaj Sahib - Pakistan is the only country that accepts the Sikh Marraige act, something th Hindu *spits* won't allow in a country us SIKHS FOUGHT TO FREE!! (Bhagat Singh & Udham Singh etc etc)


The assassination of Indira Gandhi and subsequent anti-Sikh riots

On the morning of 31 October 1984, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi was shot-dead by two Sikh security guards in New Delhi. The assassination triggered fulminant violence against Sikhs across north India.

While the ruling party, Congress, maintained that the violence was due to spontaneous riots, its critics have alleged that the Congss members had planned a progom against the Sikhs. Its critics alleged that State-operated national television was used by the state to incite violence against the Sikhs, in violation of the Article 20.2 of the ICCPR and the Article 7 of the UDHR. Sixteen politicians were named as organisers of the riots. Many senior Congress leader were also indicted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalistan_movement

[AvarAllahNoor]

Although I agree that they should have the right to their own laws etc, I kinda think that making yet another new country in the world won't really help anyone, might give some people some pride, but in the greater scheme of things what will it accomplish?

Just my opinion so correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't it be better to actually sort out the country that Sikhs are in rather then making a brand new state although, just have the judical system include any kind of laws etc.

.

India is the country. Sikhs have given their lives for hindus. And we've been slaughtered. 1 Millions Sikhs killed from 1984-2008! - We need to be independent as we have very limted rights. We are not allowed to enrol in the army (who wants to with hindus!!) they are hindufying our Sikh religion, something which won't be tolerated. A few months ago, riots broke out in Pnajab when a hindu backed leader of a cult mocked our Tenth Guru Gobind SIngh Ji Mahraaj Sahib. He's currently survived a bomb attack on his life and has been given higher security than the PM of india lol.

The only was is Khalistan, Just as it's the only solution of Palestine for Palestinians! :D

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ke Fateh (Pure Ones Belong To God, Victory To God)

[AvarAllahNoor]

Though I am originally from Pakistan, this is only the second time I'm hearing about Khalistan. Before this I read it in one of the posts by "AvarAllahNoor". Yet, I don't know one thing about it. Is something going on over there? I personally like Sikhs very much and can speak Punjabi as well and it makes me sad to know that we had a bloody history during the "partition".

This bloody history was instigated by hindu facists. who wanted to cause trouble between all three groups. - Sikhs in Kashmir were slaughtered, and then Muslims were blamed. This happened when Clinton was due in india. He then came back to the USA and spoke up against it. Stating had he not have visted india, these Sikhs would not have been slaughtered! - Khuda ki marji!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Heck yea! those guys need their own land like Muslims created Pakistan. The Hindu extremists don't like anyone, even the Christian indians are not safe there. Sikh are a proud people and i think they would get along with Pakistan a lot more than hindustan does right now.

Thankyou Brother. At least you have knowledge of the Sikhs, unlike a few idiots I've encountered on here! :smile:

[Roasted Cashew]

This bloody history was instigated by hindu facists. who wanted to cause trouble between all three groups. - Sikhs in Kashmir were slaughtered, and then Muslims were blamed. This happened when Clinton was due in india. He then came back to the USA and spoke up against it. Stating had he not have visted india, these Sikhs would not have been slaughtered! - Khuda ki marji!

Thanks for the info. I really need to learn more about my "Paki" history, lol.

[Roasted Cashew]

[B] Pakistan has helped Sikhs, and have looked after the Gurudwaras in Pakistan with respect, and embrace Sikh Pilgrims when they visit the Birth Place of Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaaj Sahib - Pakistan is the only country that accepts the Sikh Marraige act, something th Hindu *spits* won't allow in a country us SIKHS FOUGHT TO FREE!! (Bhagat Singh & Udham Singh etc etc)

I am glad my country is doing a great service to the Sikhs. Khalistan - (Land of the Pure). Hmmm, that sounds familiar. Doesn't Pakistan also mean - Land of the Pure. You just mentioned Bhagat singh. God, I love that guy. I watched some bollywood movies on him. Very brave man, what patriotism.

Eh, isn't Manmohan Singh a Sikh. What is he doing for "Khalistan"

[AvarAllahNoor]

I am glad my country is doing a great service to the Sikhs. Khalistan - (Land of the Pure). Hmmm, that sounds familiar. Doesn't Pakistan also mean - Land of the Pure. You just mentioned Bhagat singh. God, I love that guy. I watched some bollywood movies on him. Very brave man, what patriotism.

Eh, isn't Manmohan Singh a Sikh. What is he doing for "Khalistan"

You can put a turban on a dog, it does not make it a Sikh.... :D

He wears the Turban, he has a beard he's a puppet. He has no regard for the Sikhs at all.

[Whatsthepoint]

Yes. yes, they should.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Yes. yes, they should.

Merci :D

[Whatsthepoint]

Merci :D

Pas de quoi!

[AvarAllahNoor]

Pas de quoi!

Je ne comprends pas

[Whatsthepoint]

Je ne comprends pas

It means you're welcome.

[Keltoi]

Depends...if it only creates another failing state where suicide bombs are going off every half hour...probably not. However, if it becomes a stable state which doesn't destabilize a situation further..why not.

[AvarAllahNoor]

Depends...if it only creates another failing state where suicide bombs are going off every half hour...probably not. However, if it becomes a stable state which doesn't destabilize a situation further..why not.

Sikhs have NEVER particpated in suicide bombs, it's against our religion to kill INNOCENT (Not to mention a sin to commit suicide) people. Only in the battlefield are we allowed to fight. If it was the case, don't you think we'd be bombing all over india and the rest of the continents we reside in?

When Sikhs ruled Panjab, 88% were Muslims, they respected the Sikh rule, as it was the most fair. 10% Hindus, 8% Sikhs. It's not about having a Sikh nation and only Sikhs living there. We are very peaceful, until we're set upon. (Who isn't)

BTW - It would never be a failing state, Panjab is the bread basket of india. Read up on it mate :sunny:

[snakelegs]

i don't think india will ever recognize sikh rights to self-determination. isn't the punjab the most fertile part of india?
the other thing is that there are lots of people who want self-determination in india - if they let one group, the whole country would come apart.

[north_malaysian]

isn't the punjab the most fertile part of india?

The Sikhs are well-known to be sharing their foods with others... I bet that if Khalistan gained independence, it'll still help India with foods....

Furthermore... the southern part of India are fertile too....

I've voted "YES".

[AvarAllahNoor]

i don't think india will ever recognize sikh rights to self-determination. isn't the punjab the most fertile part of india?
the other thing is that there are lots of people who want self-determination in india - if they let one group, the whole country would come apart.

It'll happen! - Look at the USSR - They too thought It would never happen, it did. :D

[AvarAllahNoor]

The Sikhs are well-known to be sharing their foods with others... I bet that if Khalistan gained independence, it'll still help India with foods....

Furthermore... the southern part of India are fertile too....

I've voted "YES".

Of course we would! - Sikhs are humanitarians, we're more concerned about other people, than ourselves! - But this is our relgion, we're told to right all wrongs with kind conduct, but when this fails, it is righteous to lift the sword and FIGHT!

Sadly, it seems if you're not using 'terrorism' then the cause is not recognised. Something we may consider sooner or later....

[snakelegs]

It'll happen! - Look at the USSR - They too thought It would never happen, it did. :D

well - nothing is impossible. but right now, i doubt that india could afford to grant independence to anybody. (kashmir, anyone?).
however, autonomy seems a reasonable goal (and maybe a first step).
anyway, i'll vote for it - i think it would be cool. :sunny:

[north_malaysian]

In 3,000 years time, every single village is an independent country...

[AvarAllahNoor]

In 3,000 years time, every single village is an independent country...

No good to me, I'll be dead way before then!

Isn't a Sikh in Parliment in Malayasia or summat? Is he running for Primeminister? :D