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FatimaAsSideqah
02-17-2008, 10:50 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu



By Dr Abu ameenah Bilal Philips. The origin of Islamic law and its evolution and the four schools of law (math-habs) are discussed in this work along with the reasons for differences among them. This is probably Bilal Philips best-selling work on the various schools of thought in Islam, including detailed facts, insight, and commentary on the four major madhabs as well as other, less-known madhabs in Islam. Includes mini-biographies on various eminent Islamic scholars the Evolution of Fiqh (Islamic Law & the Madh-habs), the author very clearly presents a brief overview of the historical development of Islamic law and its schools (the Madh-Nabs). The book identifies the main reason for the appearance of the Madh-habs and the factors leading to differences among them. For those to whom the Madh-habs have been a mystery, this aspect of the book will he extremely enlightening. Although the author sheds light on both the positive and negative roles of the Madh-habs in the past, the main message of the book is call to the understanding the differences (with an aim to remove them where possible)

Read More... at this link:

http://kalamullah.com/Books/The%20Ev...0of%20Fiqh.pdf

I've read all of this book. Good book! I'm recommended is that all of you should read this book.

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 04:01 AM
How can god's law Evolve?:skeleton:
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snakelegs
02-18-2008, 04:55 AM
any system of jurisprudence evolves over time as new circumstances arise. religious jurisprudence is no different. situations arise that are not specifically addressed in the qur'an or in the hadith. the job of scholars then is to deduce/extrapolate from existing law to the new situation, using the existing law as a guide. so God's law doesn't evolve, but the understanding and interpretation/application of it does.
at least that's my understanding.
when i was young i studied jewish law a bit - believe it or not, it was actually quite interesting.
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 04:57 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
any system of jurisprudence evolves over time as new circumstances arise. religious jurisprudence is no different. situations arise that are not specifically addressed in the qur'an or in the hadith. the job of scholars then is to deduce/extrapolate from existing law to the new situation, using the existing law as a guide. so God's law doesn't evolve, but the understanding and interpretation/application of it does.
at least that's my understanding.
when i was young i studied jewish law a bit - believe it or not, it was actually quite interesting.
But it was given perfect from the beginning. :uuh:

If it needs to evolve, it was not perfect or god missed something.
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snakelegs
02-18-2008, 05:17 AM
the law doesn't evolve - it is laid out in The General Plan - in this case, the qur'an and the hadith.
jurisprudence is the evolution of the legal system that arises from The General Plan.
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 05:31 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
the law doesn't evolve - it is laid out in The General Plan - in this case, the qur'an and the hadith.
jurisprudence is the evolution of the legal system that arises from The General Plan.
So god just did a "General Plan" and left it to imperfect man to work out the details? :?
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snakelegs
02-18-2008, 05:55 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
So god just did a "General Plan" and left it to imperfect man to work out the details? :?
well The General Plan is really all you need - the specifics flow out of it. obviously if every possible situation for all time was to be spelled out, the book would be too heavy to lift! and it isn't really necessary - so you get the principles and from these scholars can deduce and extrapolate to derive rulings for specfic situations.
here's an example from jewish law (and from my crusty memory).
the torah says you can't work on the sabbath. that is believed to be God's law - that never changes. but what constitutes work? is there a way to do something so that it does not fall in to that category? how to classify the use of modern technology on the sabbath? what category does it come under?
so God's law (which does not change) = no work on the sabbath. the rest is jurisprudence.

now i think i better shut up or i will be getting way;D over my head!
:hiding:
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 06:03 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
well The General Plan is really all you need - the specifics flow out of it. obviously if every possible situation for all time was to be spelled out, the book would be too heavy to lift! and it isn't really necessary - so you get the principles and from these scholars can deduce and extrapolate to derive rulings for specfic situations.
here's an example from jewish law (and from my crusty memory).
the torah says you can't work on the sabbath. that is believed to be God's law - that never changes. but what constitutes work? is there a way to do something so that it does not fall in to that category? how to classify the use of modern technology on the sabbath? what category does it come under?
so God's law (which does not change) = no work on the sabbath. the rest is jurisprudence.

now i think i better shut up or i will be getting way;D over my head!
:hiding:
Since there is so much disagreement about so many things, it is obvious that The General Plan is not really all you need . :?
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snakelegs
02-18-2008, 06:08 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Since there is so much disagreement about so many things, it is obvious that The General Plan is not really all you need . :?
point taken.
this is why jurisprudence (which does evolve) comes in to being. :D
this marks The End of my not-so-vast knowledge of the subject. :muddlehea
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 06:23 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
point taken.
this is why jurisprudence (which does evolve) comes in to being. :D
this marks The End of my not-so-vast knowledge of the subject. :muddlehea
Well I have no knowledge on the subject,
I'm just not stupid. (Though some think so :omg:)

If it needs to evolve, it wasn't perfect.
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'Abd-al Latif
02-18-2008, 07:37 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well I have no knowledge on the subject,
I'm just not stupid. (Though some think so :omg:)

If it needs to evolve, it wasn't perfect.
*sigh* why do you seek more knowledge when you don't pay heed to what you already know?

Cigerettes weren't around 1400 years ago but they are now, but there is no specific hadith/ayaah that says that cigarettes are haram...then does that make them halal?

No, Why? Because its harmful to your body, and and hence the scholers needed give a ruling based on that.

Or what about using birth control pills? Or renting wombs? or organ transplants?

Can any of them be halal because there isn't any specific wording for the above mentioned? No! The scholers need to derive the rulings for these matters even though they didn't exist 1400 years ago!

Does that make it imperfect? No. Reason? You overlooked the fact that the law itself has not changed but as the world advances more rulings need to be drived!

Like snakelegs said;

so God's law doesn't evolve, but the understanding and interpretation/application of it does.
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 07:44 AM
*sigh* When did Cigarettes and using birth control pills become against the law?
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Malaikah
02-18-2008, 07:46 AM
wilberhum, it isn't talking about the laws it self, but rather about the approaches that Muslim scholars over the years have taken to understand the law and derive rulings from the evidences in the Quran and Sunnah.

And he only said cigarettes are forbidden, not the others. But the point is they are issues that the scholars need to discuss.

Anyway, it is an excellent book, I really learned heaps from it.

If anyone has read the book and liked it, I think they will love the two day course Chronicles of Shariah offered by the Alkauthar Institute, taught by Sheikh Abu Yusuf Tawfique Chowdhury. Check this thread for more info:

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post914269
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'Abd-al Latif
02-18-2008, 07:50 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
*sigh* When did Cigarettes and using birth control pills become against the law?
They were against the sharia law from the start, but they didn't come about until time went on.
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wilberhum
02-18-2008, 07:53 AM
Originally Posted by Malaikah
wilberhum, it isn't talking about the laws it self, but rather about the approaches that Muslim scholars over the years have taken to understand the law and derive rulings from the evidences in the Quran and Sunnah.

Anyway, it is an excellent book, I really learned heaps from it.

If anyone has read the book and liked it, I think they will love the two day course Chronicles of Shariah offered by the Alkauthar Institute, taught by Sheikh Abu Yusuf Tawfique Chowdhury. Check this thread for more info:
http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-...tml#post914269
It seams that it is quite complicated.

Why wouldn't god make his laws easy to understand?

But this long "Beating a dead horse" has wore me out and it is bed time.
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Malaikah
02-18-2008, 08:01 AM
Because its the law. Since when was law the easy? It is the law, it's complex by definition. How do you expect to rule a complex country with a simplistic law?

The good news is that as common people we aren't required to have a detailed understand of how rulings are derived and all that principles of the law and all that stuff. That's for the scholars and stuff. What is required for us is the ruling itself, so we can apply it.

Anyway, God choose to have it this way and what is required from us is that we make the best of what we have been given.
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snakelegs
02-18-2008, 09:16 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
Well I have no knowledge on the subject,
I'm just not stupid. (Though some think so :omg:)

If it needs to evolve, it wasn't perfect.
i don't think you're stupid. but either i'm not explaining very well, or you're being dense - or maybe a little of each.
the law doesn't evolve. but jurisprudence does because the world changes - things come in to being that didn't exist 10, 100, 1000 years ago. situations arise that would not have arisen centuries ago. so jurisprudence seeks to apply the law to changing circumstances.
i can't explain it any better. hopefully, after a good sleep, we'll all wake up brighter! :)
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-18-2008, 11:49 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
How can god's law Evolve?:skeleton:
it cant.


werent expecting such a simple answer were you lol




whats evolved is just peoples practise (in order to understand), the methods they use to find out the islamic rulings/laws etc. Before it was from the prophets lips (sallallahi alaihi wasallaam), then it was from he lips of the sahabi's/tabieen etc, then it was in books, till it was spread all over. Then different views started spreading about the teachings, all are dependant on ijtihaad (the well thought out and deeply considered knowledge of a learned scholar), for a correct ijtihaad Allah rewards two, for a wrong ijtihaad Allah rewards one.


if that didnt make sense then research yourself lol
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wilberhum
02-20-2008, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
it cant.


werent expecting such a simple answer were you lol




whats evolved is just peoples practise (in order to understand), the methods they use to find out the islamic rulings/laws etc. Before it was from the prophets lips (sallallahi alaihi wasallaam), then it was from he lips of the sahabi's/tabieen etc, then it was in books, till it was spread all over. Then different views started spreading about the teachings, all are dependant on ijtihaad (the well thought out and deeply considered knowledge of a learned scholar), for a correct ijtihaad Allah rewards two, for a wrong ijtihaad Allah rewards one.


if that didnt make sense then research yourself lol
The reality is, you say it can't and then explain how is does.

I guess you just have to believe to understand. :hmm:
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Keltoi
02-20-2008, 06:52 PM
I understand how God's Law must be translated to fit different situations that might arise in the future. I also understand the feeling that a book many suggest is "perfect" shouldn't be so imperfect in the context of implementing law.

As a Christian, the vast majority of us make no such claim of "perfection" when it comes to the writings gathered in the Bible. When it comes to implementing God's Law, you must use human reason to apply that law to new and developing realities. An example would be abortion. It doesn't take a scholar to come to the conclusion that abortion goes against our understanding of God's Law, even if abortion wasn't specifically mentioned within the Bible.
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-20-2008, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
The reality is, you say it can't and then explain how is does.

I guess you just have to believe to understand. :hmm:

i said it cant, and explained why it hasnt and why to you it looks as though it had.


get it?
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wilberhum
02-21-2008, 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
i said it cant, and explained why it hasnt and why to you it looks as though it had.


get it?
As I said, "I guess you just have to believe to understand". :playing:
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snakelegs
02-21-2008, 05:27 AM
actually, i don't think you have to believe to understand. i don't believe but at least i have the illusion that i understand.
we have a basic law in the constitution. situations come up all the time which require rulings based on the constitution and on legal precedents. (this comparison stinks in that the constitution can - and has been - changed and ammended, whereas in religious law the basics stay the same.)
having read most of the book that was the subject of this thread - it is exactly as the title suggests - the evolution of islamic jurisprudence, the reasons for the development of the 4 main schools of thought, the effects of outside circumstances and the reasons for the decline and stagnation of scholarship and the arising of blind following. (haven't quite finished it yet). so it talks about how islamic jurisprudence changed and developed over time and the reasons for the changes.
this does not imply that the 'basic general plan' is imperfect. just that the law is living.
islam and judaism are quite different from christianity in that they are entire systems of law. as new challenges arise, it is for scholars to see which parts of the "basic general plan" are applicable and it what way. sometimes this has to do with very small mundane things that arise in daily life and seem completely absurd to the outsider.
one cool advantage of all this is that it makes the believer consciously aware of God as he goes about his daily life.
the book is quite an interesting read and the print is nice and big. and it's not too long either.
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wilberhum
02-21-2008, 05:45 AM
Snake,
You are the most Muslim of all the non-Muslims.
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snakelegs
02-21-2008, 06:17 AM
i think it is because, as i mentioned earlier, when i was young, i studied judaism and jewish law a bit, so there is a lot about islam that feels familiar in spite of my rusty and rotting memory.
(btw, the book is not uncritical.)
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IbnAbdulHakim
02-21-2008, 10:17 AM
Originally Posted by wilberhum
As I said, "I guess you just have to believe to understand". :playing:
nope, you just have to understand to understand.

and clearly you dont understand lol
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SirZubair
02-21-2008, 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim
nope, you just have to understand to understand.

and clearly you dont understand lol
Well said Mufti IbnAbdulHakim.. :okay:

There is a Sufi saying: “Ignorance is pride, and pride is ignorance. The man who says ‘I don’t have to be taught how to learn’ is proud and ignorant.”
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FatimaAsSideqah
02-21-2008, 11:21 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu and Hello.

Please let to discuss on-topic on my thread! I don't want it be to going on by debate too much.

Sister Fatima
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SirZubair
02-25-2008, 05:39 AM
If anyone is interested in a link which will result in MANY more links (all of which will teach you about Madhabs), PM me and insha'allah i'll PM or email you the link.
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