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FatimaAsSideqah
02-23-2008, 03:25 PM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.
The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.

They were arrested following a request of the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

The mutaween enforce Saudi Arabia's conservative brand of Islam, Wahha bism.

Earlier in the month, the authorities enforced a ban on the sale of red roses and other symbols used in many countries to mark Valentine's Day.

The ban is partly because of the connection with a "pagan Christian holiday", and also because the festival itself is seen as encouraging relations between the sexes outside marriage, punishable by law in the kingdom.

The Prosecution and Investigation Commission said it had received reports of such "bad" behaviour by 57 young men at a number of shopping centres in the holy city of Mecca, the Saudi Gazette said.

The guardians of some of the men defended their actions, however, saying they would regularly get together at the weekend to have fun without ever violating laws governing the segregation of the sexes, it added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7260314.stm

Allah Hafiz
Sister Fatima
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adeeb
02-23-2008, 03:35 PM
oh God... is that the behaviour of saudi men...

masha Allah...

So become saudi arabian is not better than others...as long as emaan is still in your heart...
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MartyrX
02-23-2008, 04:08 PM
How old were these men?
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FatimaAsSideqah
02-23-2008, 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by JeffX
How old were these men?
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

The article didn't say anything about age of young men. I think they might be 20s to 30s.
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MartyrX
02-23-2008, 04:28 PM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

The article didn't say anything about age of young men. I think they might be 20s to 30s.
If so that's way too old to be behaving like that. I could almost forgive teenagers for being like that, but adults should know better.
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Isambard
02-24-2008, 03:15 AM
Another marvel of carefully thought government spending on the Saudi's part
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Malaikah
02-24-2008, 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Another marvel of carefully thought government spending on the Saudi's part
Yes, indeed.

Good on them.
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snakelegs
02-24-2008, 09:10 AM
good on them! i hope they continue to go after men that harass women.
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Trumble
02-24-2008, 09:20 AM
Exactly who is supposed to have been 'harassed'?

We obviously have a major cultural difference here.. if I lived in a country with authorities who thought they had the right to decide whether I could flirt or not I'd be joining the guys planning the Revolution. I value my freedom too much - and I'm hardly a libertarian type normally. Even the name ("Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice") is like something out of '1984'.
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Ebtisweetsam
02-24-2008, 10:08 AM
Well its a good thing they are catching these sleazy guys before it increases and leads to something worse. :peace:
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Tania
02-24-2008, 10:35 AM
I never ever saw any type of men dancing in the shopping centers :rolleyes: I wonder if its not their dress guilty :embarrass
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AvarAllahNoor
02-24-2008, 12:36 PM
Haha! - I can see why this may be going a tad too far, but If they don't appear to be cracking down on 'flirting' It may lead to more & more people openly flirting, which may lead to more obscene things. Does seem a little weird I guess when we live in countries that wouldn't bat an eyelid on such cases. Hey-Ho it is SA afterall.... :p
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Pygoscelis
02-24-2008, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Exactly who is supposed to have been 'harassed'?

We obviously have a major cultural difference here.. if I lived in a country with authorities who thought they had the right to decide whether I could flirt or not I'd be joining the guys planning the Revolution. I value my freedom too much - and I'm hardly a libertarian type normally. Even the name ("Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice") is like something out of '1984'.
Totally. The thought police will be next. Oh wait...
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Intisar
02-24-2008, 05:48 PM
There's no way to win with you guys.

Hey, let me use the logic that y'all so often like to reiterate on this forum during every waking hour. It ain't your country, so it shouldn't matter whether their laws seem ridiculous or not. This shouldn't affect you like Western laws affect Muslims because y'all don't live there.
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Isambard
02-24-2008, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
There's no way to win with you guys.

Hey, let me use the logic that y'all so often like to reiterate on this forum during every waking hour. It ain't your country, so it shouldn't matter whether their laws seem ridiculous or not. This shouldn't affect you like Western laws affect Muslims because y'all don't live there.
So I guess I should quote you next time we have another thread about how "western" laws discriminate agaisnt muslims right?^o)
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Intisar
02-24-2008, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
So I guess I should quote you next time we have another thread about how "western" laws discriminate agaisnt muslims right?^o)
If you only understood the message that I was trying to convey. :rolleyes: Why do I even bother?
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Cognescenti
02-24-2008, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
There's no way to win with you guys.

Hey, let me use the logic that y'all so often like to reiterate on this forum during every waking hour. It ain't your country, so it shouldn't matter whether their laws seem ridiculous or not. This shouldn't affect you like Western laws affect Muslims because y'all don't live there.
That seems reasonable...as long as a Muslim has an "opt out" clause when things differ from his view of Islam. But he really doesn't does he? :)

Of course, if these were Saudi Royal family members they could just go to Beverly Hills or Greece or Dubai and "let off a little steam".


Where I come from, "flirting" requires the participation of at least two individuals. It seems these chaps cannot really be accused of anything more than "attmepted flirting", which would seem a lesser offence.
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Isambard
02-24-2008, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
If you only understood the message that I was trying to convey. :rolleyes: Why do I even bother?
That hypocracy is your policy? I think you conveyed that clearly ;)

*France bans hijabs in school institutions*

Muslim community: "They are discriminating agaisnt muslims!. How can they do this?!"

*Danish newspaper prints lewd cartoons*

Muslim community: "OMG! HOW DARE THEY! TAKE TO THE STREETS!"

*Queen knights Rushdie*

Muslim community: "How dare they knight him! Doesnt the queen know he offended us?! How can she think she has a right to knight anyone she wishes in her country?!"

*Saudi Arabia makes all sorta of boneheaded gov't policies*

Non-muslims: "The Saudi gov't is pants-on-head retarded...."
Muslims on LI: "Its our country. What right do you have to say what we do with it or in it?"
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Cognescenti
02-24-2008, 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by Sister-Ameena*
If you only understood the message that I was trying to convey. :rolleyes: Why do I even bother?
I think I understood as well. This is a Muslim website and I am a Moderator :thankyou:
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wilberhum
02-24-2008, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Cognescenti
I think I understood as well. This is a Muslim website and I am a Moderator :thankyou:
That is what I understood also.
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The_Prince
02-24-2008, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
That hypocracy is your policy? I think you conveyed that clearly ;)

*France bans hijabs in school institutions*

Muslim community: "They are discriminating agaisnt muslims!. How can they do this?!"

*Danish newspaper prints lewd cartoons*

Muslim community: "OMG! HOW DARE THEY! TAKE TO THE STREETS!"

*Queen knights Rushdie*

Muslim community: "How dare they knight him! Doesnt the queen know he offended us?! How can she think she has a right to knight anyone she wishes in her country?!"

*Saudi Arabia makes all sorta of boneheaded gov't policies*

Non-muslims: "The Saudi gov't is pants-on-head retarded...."
Muslims on LI: "Its our country. What right do you have to say what we do with it or in it?"
actually you prove your the hypocrite with double standards since its ppl like u who often tell the Muslim community, hey dont like our laws? leave then! its our country bla bla bla

so now i tell you the same thing, dont like Saudi laws? oh well too bad for you its their country, they do what they want, not what you want to appease your infidelic anti-Islamic desires.
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Isambard
02-24-2008, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by The_Prince
actually you prove your the hypocrite with double standards since its ppl like u who often tell the Muslim community, hey dont like our laws? leave then! its our country bla bla bla

so now i tell you the same thing, dont like Saudi laws? oh well too bad for you its their country, they do what they want, not what you want to appease your infidelic anti-Islamic desires.
Hello again Pancho,

Please show me where I have ever told muslims to leave Canada.
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Intisar
02-24-2008, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Isambard
Hello again Pancho,

Please show me where I have ever told muslims to leave Canada.
You don't have the ability to do so. I'm as much Canadian as you. It's a multi-cultural, multi-national, and multi-religious state. Now, Saudi Arabia is not.

The_Prince basically summed up what I was trying to say.
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snakelegs
02-25-2008, 02:29 AM
Originally Posted by Trumble
Exactly who is supposed to have been 'harassed'?

We obviously have a major cultural difference here.. if I lived in a country with authorities who thought they had the right to decide whether I could flirt or not I'd be joining the guys planning the Revolution. I value my freedom too much - and I'm hardly a libertarian type normally. Even the name ("Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice") is like something out of '1984'.
i am thinking of the other thread - where saudis are using the behavior of men (harassing women) as a reason to prohibit women from driving. it certainly sounds like it is time to make the men behave better!
so, in view of all this - i think this is a good thing.
speaking of cultural differences - in india, men think it's perfectly ok to touch women in public. it is known as "eve teasing".
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SomeHowpossible
02-25-2008, 06:46 AM

ACHI BAT KO PHELAO AND BURI BAT KO CHOPAO


spread good works and Hide the wrong doings and....

I think this is not the way to stop the the wrong doings. there are many many good things that Muslims do we can promote them.....as far as this instance is, this thing can happen every where but in other parts of world this would have neglected.
Now a days am listening news from western media that in suadia this and that is happening, i think by doing they are projecting Muslims as BAD people...

___
sss
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guyabano
02-25-2008, 07:17 AM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i am thinking of the other thread - where saudis are using the behavior of men (harassing women) as a reason to prohibit women from driving. it certainly sounds like it is time to make the men behave better!
so, in view of all this - i think this is a good thing.
speaking of cultural differences - in india, men think it's perfectly ok to touch women in public. it is known as "eve teasing".
Well, that men must have a good behavior is totally ok. But as some stated already, to flirt, you must be 2 persons. Until then, it's only an attempt to flirt.
Most people forgotten already that bevore 'Eve' was also 'Lilith' in the Garden of Eden, and she was not very nice to Adam.

Peace
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Malaikah
02-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Whether or not the women encourages or tolerates the mans attempts to flirt doesn't change the fact that the man is flirting...
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Muezzin
02-25-2008, 11:08 AM
Originally Posted by RighteousLady
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.
The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.
This law would totally rid Britain's streets of chavs.
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KAding
02-25-2008, 11:37 AM
Was this thread the reasons for the mass-banning of half our atheist/agnostic forum members? :uuh:

Just need to know. That way I can learn what one is allowed to say and not :D. I don't want to be banished :'(.

*Looks over shoulder*
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MinAhlilHadeeth
02-25-2008, 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by KAding
Was this thread the reasons for the mass-banning of half our atheist/agnostic forum members? :uuh:

Just need to know. That way I can learn what one is allowed to say and not :D. I don't want to be banished :'(.

*Looks over shoulder*
Greetings,

No, just those members who come to this forum with the sole intention of degrading and insulting Islaam and Muslims. They can't have wanted to stay that much, otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly broken the rules.
Reply

*Hana*
02-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Originally Posted by snakelegs
i am thinking of the other thread - where saudis are using the behavior of men (harassing women) as a reason to prohibit women from driving. it certainly sounds like it is time to make the men behave better!
so, in view of all this - i think this is a good thing.
speaking of cultural differences - in india, men think it's perfectly ok to touch women in public. it is known as "eve teasing".
I'm afraid I'd be doing my own form of touching called "eve slapping". :raging:

My hand would be in gear before my brain if any man laid a hand on me.

This is common on the buses in Egypt as well. Although it's not considered acceptable. Women there usually remove a pin from their hijab and poke the jerk with it. I can tell you there is no way I would ever be that polite and everyone on that bus would know what he did. How dare someone do that! :raging:

Ok, that's my moment. :embarrass

Hana
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Suomipoika
02-25-2008, 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Greetings,

No, just those members who come to this forum with the sole intention of degrading and insulting Islaam and Muslims. They can't have wanted to stay that much, otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly broken the rules.
I dont think you are completely fair towards them. If you look at their registration dates, one of them arrived to this forum almost two years ago. Maybe we should ask why a person who has stayed almost two years on Islamic forum turns into someone who insults Islam and Muslim.

Personally Id say the following thread gives us clues to that why, simply because the sort of behaviour portrayed in there has affected on me, and not in a positive way. And indeed, one of the posters banned did go rather ballistic in the thread.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...s-okinawa.html

For some reasons people that troll in a manner that portray "western society as one that grows rapists" and "how non-believers are always dirty" are not dealth with. Indeed the mod that closed the thread, aswell as the one who approved it, ignored completely these very offensive and insulting generalisations.

I have whined every once in a while about the negative portrayal of west in here, but no one really seems to care. Really, who should I demand respect from?

Now, if "western" posters constantly see this sort of flaming and trolling by some muslim posters, which in turn is ignored by other muslim posters, while at the every available opportunity these same people demand respect for themselves. What do you really expect the reply to be? To me it seems very wrong and unfair.

Please deal with people who insult others aswell, not only those who insult Islam.
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S_87
02-25-2008, 02:41 PM
good on them, inshaAllah they will arrest more jerks too.
Reply

guyabano
02-25-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I dont think you are completely fair towards them. If you look at their registration dates, one of them arrived to this forum almost two years ago. Maybe we should ask why a person who has stayed almost two years on Islamic forum turns into someone who insults Islam and Muslim.

Personally Id say the following thread gives us clues to that why, simply because the sort of behaviour portrayed in there has affected on me, and not in a positive way. And indeed, one of the posters banned did go rather ballistic in the thread.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...s-okinawa.html

For some reasons people that troll in a manner that portray "western society as one that grows rapists" and "how non-believers are always dirty" are not dealth with. Indeed the mod that closed the thread, aswell as the one who approved it, ignored completely these very offensive and insulting generalisations.

I have whined every once in a while about the negative portrayal of west in here, but no one really seems to care. Really, who should I demand respect from?

Now, if "western" posters constantly see this sort of flaming and trolling by some muslim posters, which in turn is ignored by other muslim posters, while at the every available opportunity these same people demand respect for themselves. What do you really expect the reply to be? To me it seems very wrong and unfair.

Please deal with people who insult others aswell, not only those who insult Islam.
You just got a serious big point ! I'm really scared now just to cough too loud in order not to get banned. I find it shameful for a religion not being able to accept some criticism. But when some juvenile 'Wannabe' Muslims here bash on western laws and morals, call all our women wh*res*, THAT is tolerated.
Might be that these posts have been deleted, if not, I will find them back.

All I want is a global justice, and not only against non-muslims.

Peace
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AvarAllahNoor
02-25-2008, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Hana_Aku
I'm afraid I'd be doing my own form of touching called "eve slapping". :raging:

My hand would be in gear before my brain if any man laid a hand on me.

This is common on the buses in Egypt as well. Although it's not considered acceptable. Women there usually remove a pin from their hijab and poke the jerk with it. I can tell you there is no way I would ever be that polite and everyone on that bus would know what he did. How dare someone do that! :raging:


Hana
Is this a trend in asian countries? If that happened here in the UK, there would be an outcry! - If it happens In clubs/pubs, that's whole different thing...
Reply

MinAhlilHadeeth
02-25-2008, 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by Suomipoika
I dont think you are completely fair towards them. If you look at their registration dates, one of them arrived to this forum almost two years ago. Maybe we should ask why a person who has stayed almost two years on Islamic forum turns into someone who insults Islam and Muslim.

Personally Id say the following thread gives us clues to that why, simply because the sort of behaviour portrayed in there has affected on me, and not in a positive way. And indeed, one of the posters banned did go rather ballistic in the thread.

http://www.islamicboard.com/world-af...s-okinawa.html

For some reasons people that troll in a manner that portray "western society as one that grows rapists" and "how non-believers are always dirty" are not dealth with. Indeed the mod that closed the thread, aswell as the one who approved it, ignored completely these very offensive and insulting generalisations.

I have whined every once in a while about the negative portrayal of west in here, but no one really seems to care. Really, who should I demand respect from?

Now, if "western" posters constantly see this sort of flaming and trolling by some muslim posters, which in turn is ignored by other muslim posters, while at the every available opportunity these same people demand respect for themselves. What do you really expect the reply to be? To me it seems very wrong and unfair.

Please deal with people who insult others aswell, not only those who insult Islam.
Greetings,

I disagree. Things are done about it. Unless you can see other members' infractions, read their PMs or have access to the discussions that occur between the moderators, I don't see how you can make such a remark. Therefore, this simply reflects your perception of what seems to be happening, yet you simply do not posess all the facts. There is no need to make it seem as if there is some sort of conspiracy against the non-Muslim members here, since the rules apply to everyone not just a certain group or members of a certain religion. Special attention is not granted to anyone, and neither do we bend the rules for anyone - Muslim or non-Muslim.

Now, contrary to popular belief, the moderators cannot read minds, neither do we have eyes on the back of our heads. All posts are not read, since we all lead busy lives. If a member or thread is getting out of hand, report it. Or if you wish, you can PM a moderator or admin that you trust.

Also, I'd like to add that I've witnessed some members 'trolling' in threads were no provocation occured. So the excuse given is a rather weak one.

Originally Posted by guyabano
You just got a serious big point ! I'm really scared now just to cough too loud in order not to get banned. I find it shameful for a religion not being able to accept some criticism. But when some juvenile 'Wannabe' Muslims here bash on western laws and morals, call all our women wh*res*, THAT is tolerated.
Might be that these posts have been deleted, if not, I will find them back.

All I want is a global justice, and not only against non-muslims.

Peace
Greetings,

Please remember that membership to this forum is not a right. It is privately owned, so the rules are determined by the administrators and not the members. If you cannot abide by those rules, you will be warned. If you repeatedly break these rules, you will be banned. Please stop trying to depict LI as some oppressive/tyranical regime, because if anything, we were too lenient with the respective members. If LI did not accept dialogue between members of other beliefs, then we would not have non-Muslim members still here, who have been here as early as 2005. However, some members have the dignity and respect to verbalise their opinions in an honourable manner, whilst others pounce upon any opportunity to insult and ridicule Islaam and Muslims. The first is acceptable, whilst the latter is not. You may not be entirely satisfied with that, but let me repeat; the rules of this forum are determined by the administrator and not the member. I hope that clears any confusion you may have had on the matter.
Reply

*Hana*
02-25-2008, 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by AvarAllahNoor
Is this a trend in asian countries? If that happened here in the UK, there would be an outcry! - If it happens In clubs/pubs, that's whole different thing...
I have no clue. But, I'm thinking very few men would be brave enough to attempt that behavior in many countries. lol

Years ago, before I reverted, I was in a bar and as I leaned over to pick up my purse...some guy pinched me. I spun around, fist clenched, but before I had a chance to even connect, 3 young men jumped him and threw him out. So, at least here in Nova Scotia, that behavior is not acceptable. I didn't know these young men never saw them before or since, but they were quick to react. I had never had that happen before either, so it's not something considered "the norm" here or any other part of the west I've been in. At least, that has been my experience.

I suspect the vast majority of men, regardless of where they are from, would be so blatantly disrespectful and rude. But, to the ones that are...:raging:

Hana
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Suomipoika
02-25-2008, 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
Greetings,

I disagree. Things are done about it. Unless you can see other members' infractions, read their PMs or have access to the discussions that occur between the moderators, I don't see how you can make such a remark. Therefore, this simply reflects your perception of what seems to be happening, yet you simply do not posess all the facts.
There in lies the problem I guess, posts offending Islam dissapear, people posting those posts get banned. Posts insulting west, (like on that thread I linked) remain, posters posting those comments, seem to go on unaffected.

Now, contrary to popular belief, the moderators cannot read minds, neither do we have eyes on the back of our heads. All posts are not read, since we all lead busy lives. If a member or thread is getting out of hand, report it. Or if you wish, you can PM a moderator or admin that you trust.
I was under the impression that the mods read the thread starting posts when they need to be approved?

But you are absolutely right, I dont know what is happening behind the scenes. I will try your suggestion right away. Thank you.
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Intisar
02-26-2008, 02:25 AM
It's funny how people refer to ''Westerners'' and ''Muslims'' as if they are two seperate entities, can they not co-exist?

Like sis Faizah said, none of you really know what's going on behind the scenes so by making assumptions and conspiracies like that, you're just stirring up trouble.

People that have been banned, have been dealt with accordingly. Let's hope that the rest of us can learn from their mistakes inshaa Allaah. :)
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AvarAllahNoor
02-26-2008, 11:11 AM
I can understand the concerns of guyabano & Suomipoika. I'm a Sikh (just in case you didn't notice...) In defence of the Mods & site. In my posts in some topics I can be in agreement with some things Islamic, and sometimes I'm not. They don't ban me, but it's the way to conduct yourself. If you're effing and blinding (which I have done in threads that insulted Sikhism) I was warned, and so was the other party involved.

It is sad, seeing a few of the Atheists, Christians I've enjoyed a good debate with have had their 'Account Disabled' it seemed a tad like a coup lol - Hope they'll be back after a little while

Guru Fateh
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Skavau
02-28-2008, 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Faizah
I disagree. Things are done about it. Unless you can see other members' infractions, read their PMs or have access to the discussions that occur between the moderators, I don't see how you can make such a remark.
Whilst I lack discussions with moderators, I do have discussions with one of the members banned. He has no idea what he has actually done to warrant a ban. No single post or posts have been identified.

Why exactly has he been banned? If there a reason, he is not aware of it.

Originally Posted by Faizah
Therefore, this simply reflects your perception of what seems to be happening, yet you simply do not posess all the facts.
This is interesting. I see on page 2 you declare the following:

Originally Posted by Faizah
No, just those members who come to this forum with the sole intention of degrading and insulting Islaam and Muslims. They can't have wanted to stay that much, otherwise they wouldn't have repeatedly broken the rules."
Now. The banned poster in question tells me he has never received a warning and as stated above does not actually know why he was banned.

So why was he banned? Your post also references 'members who come to this forum with the sole intention of degrading and insulting Islaam and Muslims' - so perhaps that could be why he was banned, but this is a strange criteria. How do you determine's someone motive here if it is not by what they type? If a poster does have an intention of degrading and insulting Islam then surely it would be echoed in their posts?

If you declare it from other means, then it is prejudice in play and not actual evidence. And you know what you say:

Originally Posted by Faizah
Now, contrary to popular belief, the moderators cannot read minds, neither do we have eyes on the back of our heads. All posts are not read, since we all lead busy lives. If a member or thread is getting out of hand, report it. Or if you wish, you can PM a moderator or admin that you trust.
Deciphering someones motives on a forum is an attempt at mind-reading.
Reply

Intisar
02-28-2008, 10:53 PM
Originally Posted by Skavau
If a poster does have an intention of degrading and insulting Islam then surely it would be echoed in their posts?
It was echoed in their posts, that's why they were banned. :)

This thread has gone too far off the original topic to be restored to it's original purpose.

:threadclo

Anymore concerns? Speak to a mod or an admin. :)
Reply

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